(Spoiler) Tsunade VS Tobirama

Penguin

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She has no counter for a Hiraishingiri blitz. He has speed and reaction time to counter anything she has. Katsuyu has not hit anything with her acid. He eventually wears her out or the blitz happens.
 
Tazzilla88

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Penguin2640 said:
She has no counter for a Hiraishingiri blitz. He has speed and reaction time to counter anything she has. Katsuyu has not hit anything with her acid. He eventually wears her out or the blitz happens.
Click to expand...
And how many times has Katsuyu used the acid? How many times has other techniques missed?
 
Penguin

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She cannot counter Hiraishingiri.

Tobirama | 1
Tsunade | 0

:whip:
 
Tazzilla88

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Penguin2640 said:
She cannot counter Hiraishingiri.

Tobirama | 1
Tsunade | 0

:whip:
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Wouldn't he need to engage in CQC to tag her first? And in CQC couldn't BPD stop him in his tracks with him having no counter?

Couldn't a punch from her stop him in his tracks?

As well as her restraining him while Katsuyu liquefies him.
But let's say he uses clones. Wouldn't his clones still be vastly outnumbered by Katsuyu who can literally divide into thousands of herselves and still be much larger than humans?
Wouldn't thousands of mini Katsuyu's pose a problem for a Tobirama who's strength weakens with each clone produced?
 
Strict

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@Tazilla, Tsunade is slow and predictable. Don't act as if it wouldn't be possible to touch her without getting killed. Seeing what explosive tags did to Hidan, are you wondering whether Tsunade could survive?

And well, if Katsuyu is gonna split herself, her power will be less effective and also, big summons attacks can be avoided with good Shunshin, seeing how even Deva avoided the boss toads attacks without such a remarkable speed. Even if not on Minato's level, Tobirama can still use Hiraishin no Jutsu.
 
TheEvilOne

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Strict said:
@Tazilla, Tsunade is slow and predictable. Don't act as if it wouldn't be possible to touch her without getting killed. Seeing what explosive tags did to Hidan, are you wondering whether Tsunade could survive?

And well, if Katsuyu is gonna split herself, her power will be less effective and also, big summons attacks can be avoided with good Shunshin, seeing how even Deva avoided the boss toads attacks without such a remarkable speed. Even if not on Minato's level, Tobirama can still use Hiraishin no Jutsu.
Click to expand...

Still punched her opponents who were faster than her. Fail.
 
Exaar

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Sure, Give tobirama mokuton and the ability to hold tsunade down then yeah.
 
amarusboobs

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The only time I like Tsunade is when she is in doujinshi, so I'm going with Tobirama :|
 
W

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He needs Edo Tensei to use that Jutsu, and you restricted Edo Tensei, so Tsunade wins.
 
Tazzilla88

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Strict said:
@Tazilla, Tsunade is slow and predictable. Don't act as if it wouldn't be possible to touch her without getting killed. Seeing what explosive tags did to Hidan, are you wondering whether Tsunade could survive?

And well, if Katsuyu is gonna split herself, her power will be less effective and also, big summons attacks can be avoided with good Shunshin, seeing how even Deva avoided the boss toads attacks without such a remarkable speed. Even if not on Minato's level, Tobirama can still use Hiraishin no Jutsu.
Click to expand...
Tsunade is slow? Nothing in the manga even suggests that she's slow. The only thing people might try to point to is her part 1 performance, in which she was still able to catch Kabuto off guard multiple times. In fact, within the only time he actually successfully engaged in CQC she countered. Also Jiraiya canonically referred to her as rusty. Kabuto said she had been out of battle for a long time. She quit being a shinobi after Dan's death so of course she wasn't at her peak performance. But if you compare her performance in part 1 to her performance in part 2. War Arc Tsunade would beat part 1 Tsunade mid diff.
So what exactly seems to be pointing to her being slow? Not being as fast as the world's second fastest man? Then everyone except Minato, Naruto, and Juubito is slow.
In fact, Part 2 feats would suggest she's in fact not
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She's predictable? So tell me did
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predict this?
Did
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predict this? or
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?
or did Madara predict this
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? or this
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? So if Tsunade's style is so predictable, tell me what opponent of hers hasn't been hit by her. I'll wait. Tobirama doesn't have the speed nor has he shown the taijutsu prowess to even suggest he would survive a melee skirmish with Tsunade. And tell me how Tobirama will use these tags without Edo-Tensei? Hmm?
Let's see... if Katsuyu divides herself, not only is each one capable of spitting enough acid to
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a person. But
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can
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as well. So tell me when there are thousands of minis how do you bypass them so easily when they can easily captured, after which point Tsunade fodderizes a captured shinobi.
Also all indicators point to Tobirama's shunshin being the same as Hiruzen and Hashirama as they arrived at the same time as opposed to Minato's shunshin which allowed him to place a kunai at the ocean, place the 4 kunai to make the red sun barrier, and then teleport the TBB all before the other kages arrived.
And since we don't see Tobirama throwing around kunai where is he going to teleport to? Hmm?
 
grizzlyshree

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Tazzilla88 said:
Tsunade is slow? Nothing in the manga even suggests that she's slow. The only thing people might try to point to is her part 1 performance, in which she was still able to catch Kabuto off guard multiple times. In fact, within the only time he actually successfully engaged in CQC she countered. Also Jiraiya canonically referred to her as rusty. Kabuto said she had been out of battle for a long time. She quit being a shinobi after Dan's death so of course she wasn't at her peak performance. But if you compare her performance in part 1 to her performance in part 2. War Arc Tsunade would beat part 1 Tsunade mid diff.
So what exactly seems to be pointing to her being slow? Not being as fast as the world's second fastest man? Then everyone except Minato, Naruto, and Juubito is slow.
In fact, Part 2 feats would suggest she's in fact not
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She's predictable? So tell me did
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predict this?
Did
You must be registered for see links
predict this? or
You must be registered for see links
?
or did Madara predict this
You must be registered for see links
? or this
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? So if Tsunade's style is so predictable, tell me what opponent of hers hasn't been hit by her. I'll wait. Tobirama doesn't have the speed nor has he shown the taijutsu prowess to even suggest he would survive a melee skirmish with Tsunade. And tell me how Tobirama will use these tags without Edo-Tensei? Hmm?
Let's see... if Katsuyu divides herself, not only is each one capable of spitting enough acid to
You must be registered for see links
a person. But
You must be registered for see links
can
You must be registered for see links
as well. So tell me when there are thousands of minis how do you bypass them so easily when they can easily captured, after which point Tsunade fodderizes a captured shinobi.
Also all indicators point to Tobirama's shunshin being the same as Hiruzen and Hashirama as they arrived at the same time as opposed to Minato's shunshin which allowed him to place a kunai at the ocean, place the 4 kunai to make the red sun barrier, and then teleport the TBB all before the other kages arrived.
And since we don't see Tobirama throwing around kunai where is he going to teleport to? Hmm?
Click to expand...

tbh, none of what you posted proves Tsunades speed. she is too slow.

why was she compared to Ay? because Ay was the only person attacking with Tsunade! the others had flight(Gaara and Onoki) so they dont have to run and mei had long distance KKG.

Tsunade is too slow. she is just decent in speed but she is not worthy of being compared with speed demons.she is faster than Part-1 Kabuto thats all.

did oro predict this? no since what you showed is just Tsunades will power and has nothing to do with her battle prowess.



Tobirama is naturally fast acting as he got praised by Minato(which speaks for itself) whic hmenas he can easily jodge Tsunades attacks.

did madara expect attacks? sure not, because he wasnt even serious and Madaraa in general is open-minded about others abilities!. he even went to show the perfect susanoo as he was inspired by the five fodders combo(teamwork).
 
grizzlyshree

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TheEvilOne said:
Still punched her opponents who were faster than her. Fail.
Click to expand...


which opponent was faster than her? tell me, as far as ive seen it was a handicapped Oro(who wasnt even moving), i havent see her hitting a fast moving opponent .
 
Tazzilla88

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grizzlyshree said:
tbh, none of what you posted proves Tsunades speed. she is too slow.

why was she compared to Ay? because Ay was the only person attacking with Tsunade! the others had flight(Gaara and Onoki) so they dont have to run and mei had long distance KKG.

Tsunade is too slow. she is just decent in speed but she is not worthy of being compared with speed demons.she is faster than Part-1 Kabuto thats all.

did oro predict this? no since what you showed is just Tsunades will power and has nothing to do with her battle prowess.



Tobirama is naturally fast acting as he got praised by Minato(which speaks for itself) whic hmenas he can easily jodge Tsunades attacks.

did madara expect attacks? sure not, because he wasnt even serious and Madaraa in general is open-minded about others abilities!. he even went to show the perfect susanoo as he was inspired by the five fodders combo(teamwork).
Click to expand...

um ... not really that thread went in depth explaining the question. You just looked at the answer and gave a pretty sad reply. so then I guess I've no choice but to present each argument here to be countered.
So I well try to make this as rudimentary as possible as I tend to be verbose. Madara clearly compares her strength and speed to Ay's
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The reason for comparing strength is obvious, they both have super strength so in order for the readers to know who is stronger Kishi directly tells us, despite there already being hints of this. Kishi goes on to further highlight this difference in strength in the battle. So why compare speed? I think that because he was about to show Tsunade is high speed combat, he wanted readers to know that speed is still Ay's thing. His shtick if you will. However, that would also serve as a way of telling readers that she is not slow as she was worthy of being compared in this regard.
Argument 1
We'll first start by showing that Tsunade cleared a fairly large distance quickly which prompted Madara's comment. This is how far away from Madara Tsunade started out,
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the distance is presented on the page starting 577 and again on page 3 where she covers the distance.
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For those who claim because Kishi's proportions are sometimes off and that we shouldn't place much weight on the distance, then the distance seen on page 3 of chapter 577 should be the best approximation of distance to go by as that is the one used while she is closing the distance. Considering how fast the distance was closed, it is a natural conclusion that Tsunade moves quickly, and it was that quick motion to which Madara was referencing. I also find it odd, that Tsunade is the only character I've heard the "Kishi messed up on the distance, she didn't really move that fast" argument, when discussing speed feats. What I also find as odd, is that people claim Tsunade has never been said to be fast. Which is interesting considering, even in part 1 we saw her in one battle, a battle in which she was out of shape, and power levels were decreased. (I don't see some one trying to argue from part 1 feats in regards to any character who has a battle in part 2)The very next battle we've seen her in, Madara comments on her speed. And before she challenged Pein, she, in a fatigued state, managed to beat the Anbu to Pein and surprising SM Naruto
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Notice the twitch in her eye, it means one of two things, either she noticed Pain was attacking, or that she realized she had reached her limit and could no more. The only thing which may remotely suggest average speed was the battle against Kabuto, who may I add is an evasion expert. And she still managed to surprise him a few times, as well as blitz her attendant, and catch Orochimaru off guard. But nothing has ever pointed to Tsunade being slow. Moving off of this tangent...

Argument 2Now because this feat comes directly before Madara's comments on speed, we can gather that the two are related. Similarly the following feat happens only two pages after his comment on her speed.
In the scan that's about to be presented. Ay and Oonoki are coming toward Madara's susanoo for a blitz.
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Which is what serves to the reason that we can believe Tsunade is fast. A more careful examination of the page shows that Tsunade is no where in sight.
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In fact, the last time we see her she is at the location where she punched his susanoo.
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Another feature I'm not sure everyone had noticed, but Madara, had not seen her coming at all. Which means during that brief moment after Ay hit his susanoo and he looked at Ay she followed up without him seeing her coming.
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Now some may try to argue, that Ay in fact hit Madara to Tsunade, but this is not the case as we can see in the scan that was meant to be a closer examination of the page. But looking at the very next page we can see they all share close proximity.
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Which means this speed feat for Tsunade is valid.
Argument 3
The next scan involves her on the offensive once again. She managed to get from up here
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all the way to punching what seems to be a Madara who is trying to get away.
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Now notice her position relative to the other kage.
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(This by the way is the distance at which she had traveled Not down to where Madara was but past that original position) At that point she was the person leading the offense and by Madara's admission he was forced to substitute himself with the Mokuton Bunshin.
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Which would make it Tsunade pushing offense that made him resort to such measures.

Now notice the Distance Tsunade once again covers,
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and this time notice how far Tsunade's attack managed to make it before Madara could counter attack.
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Conclusion
All of the above indicate high speed movement.

Also for argument 3, you're assuming Ay was the only person attacking with Tsunade when they all left the branch and moved in closer to attack. And even still she placed Madara in the predicament was the point. It was ultimately her CQC which forced him to use a Mokuton Bunshin.

What I showed in regard to Tsunade.... twice she jumped in front of Orochimaru's blade shocking him because of how quickly she did it. And unless her will power knocked over Orochimaru, that would be a strike that he didn't predict.

So tell me about Tobirama's CQC feats and even his CQC hype. Now show me his Speed feats. Yes, Minato called him fast. But Minato was clearly talking about the reaction speed of the paper from edo tensei being stuck on juubito, as Tobirama couldn't avoid being hit. And his shunshin seems to be on par with the other kages.
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Also I'd like to point out a few more things, she and Ay scared the bejeesus out of Bee and Naruto.
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And I would like to point this out.
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