itachi is weaker than sasuke and minato

3MESSIAH

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Sasuke obviously outlasts Itachi, so i'm not going to argue about him. I'd argue about a Itachi vs Minato though

Genjutsu counters

It has never been shown Minato's performance against genjutsu, but it was stated during the kage summit that Sharingan can't follow the speed of the likes of Raikage(compared to Minato) enough to actually catch the person in the genjutsu. Not only that, but now that we know he can use clone, all he has to do is to create one during the battle. Itachi can see handsigns with his Sharingan, but Sharingan can't distinguish clone with the original.

Genjutsu doesn't work on clone, so Itachi would have to make sure to be sure if the one he is facing is the clone or the original to try genjutsu. Not only that but even if he smh manage to catch the original in his genjutsu, the clone being capable to perform Hiraishin themselves could easily teleport to the original in an instant to disturb the chakra flow.

The clone may not even do it directly and wait until Itachi would close the distance in order to attack the original(while in genjutsu) and appear instantly to finish him(Itachi being close to the markings on the original's pocket).

But if Itachi fails and only put the clone in the genjutsu, it won't work like i've stated before. But if Minato wants, he could feint Itachi into believing it was fooled by the genjutsu only to take advantage of this if Itachi were trying to kill the clone(not knowing it's one) while closing the distance to destroy him

Combat advantage

Minato reflexive speed is so fast that it has often be compared to the likes of A or Naruto. He even outsped A's maximum shunshin by throwing his kunai above him(while close to his face) and outsped him before he actually traversed his kunai completely, from a decent distance caught infant Naruto who was an instant away to get impaled by Obito's kunai in an instant, crossed entire konoha in an instant to immobilise the Kyubi via Summoning jutsu, outsped even great shunshin users like Tobirama as well as the likes Hashirama(the supposed God of Shinobi). So a Minato alone is already difficult to handle because of his natural reflexive speed, but with another clone it will even be more difficult, especially since his clone can also perform FTG.

Good luck for Itachi to destroy them then. How could he even land a hit is questionable. As stated in latest chapter, his markings remain forever with no possible way to remove them, and since Minato is faster, if they engage in close combat, he is screwed. Itachi uses clone in offensive phase, so it's unlikely that he could use them and even if he does, until when? A clone remove half of your chakra and Itachi isn't a chakra monster. He would probably have to protect himself with Susanoo though

Only problem is that protecting himself with Susanoo would only make the fight last longer. Since he has no way to actually hit the opponent, maintaining Susanoo will be useless in the end considering the side effects of the jutsu.

It will even slow Itachi's reaction like Kabuto stated in their battle and more time will pass, more his speed, reflexes, stamina(and even sight since he has MS) will reduce. So sooner or later Minato will win, and that's even if Minato actually want to make the fight last that long. It's really questionable if Susanoo would even be that useful against Minato's arsenal. We've seen that underground is Susanoo's weakness thanks to Gaara who used the sand under Madara's feet, so by landing kunais or markings near the feet of the user, he should be capable to strike Itachi down in one teleportation, especially since the jutsu even has a radius

Knowledge

Itachi fans usually say that Minato has no knowledge on tsukuyomi, so he will get hit by it, but forget most of the time that tsukuyomi is only a increased form of Sharingan genjutsu. Sharingan genjutsu are well-known over the world for their dangerosity even by some stranger like Chiyo.

Minato has shown to have extensive knowledge on Sharingan capacities himself, to the point that to his knowledge only Madara could control the fox(knowing all Uchihas during his era as a Hokage), and even knew that if it was indeed him, he couldn't control him for long. He even has a contract seal that stops the sharingan control on the Kyubi, so clearly, it has been shown that Minato has great knowledge on Sharingan. So people who really think that Minato will engage any Sharingan(whoever he is) without taking precaution shouldn't fool themselves

On the other hand, Minato's abilities don't seem to be that well-known. Not even book-smart Sakura knew something about it and was totally surprised when she saw it in action. Not even his own most prominent student(Kakashi) knew about it until Minato decided to explain it to him personally and eventhen, they still didn't know about variants like FTG lvl2, space-time barriers, or subtle things like the fact markings never disappears. Not even counting Minato's other techniques like his sealing jutsus and so on, which are not even his base arsenal, so nothing even shows that Itachi has knowledge on Minato's jutsus, which could be the reason why this fight could last only seconds
nice explanation but why exactly do you think genjutsu doesnt work on a clone?? is it because of that itachi-kakashi thing??

because it doesnt seem logical to me.clones have a brain of their own,it should effect them.and when it does the clone is dispelled and the experience goes to the original.meaning minato dies of tsukuyomi....:erm:
 

riley freeman

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i am talking about healthy itachi....it was hinted by obito that sasuke only broke out of tsukuyomi because itachi let him+itachi was sick....but as i was saying sasuke may be able to break out of tsukuyomi now...
Oh I see, but genjutsu has nothing to do with how weak you are(it only concerns chakra), so a healthy itachi is only better than a sick itachi because he will be faster and his reflex would increase, so sasuke still wins
 

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healthy itachi-prime itachi...how the hell he odesnt exist:hyper:

it`s like saying naruto>kabuto because he is trapped in izanami.prime kabuto is considered.

however it`s true that we dont know how strong prime itachi really was...but i think he was quite stronger than sick itachi...
itachi has been sick almost his entire life. i think, even before activating MS, therefore healthy itachi doesn't exist.
the so called healthy itachi you're talking about is edo itachi.

nice explanation but why exactly do you think genjutsu doesnt work on a clone?? is it because of that itachi-kakashi thing??

because it doesnt seem logical to me.clones have a brain of their own,it should effect them.and when it does the clone is dispelled and the experience goes to the original.meaning minato dies of tsukuyomi....:erm:
clones are made of chakra, that's why they turn into smoke once destroyed. you can't compare them to an actual human being made of blood and flesh.
 
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Bogard

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nice explanation but why exactly do you think genjutsu doesnt work on a clone?? is it because of that itachi-kakashi thing??

because it doesnt seem logical to me.clones have a brain of their own,it should effect them.and when it does the clone is dispelled and the experience goes to the original.meaning minato dies of tsukuyomi....:erm:
Firstly, tsukuyomi doesn't kill, it only cause a break-down in the opponents spirit. Secondly, yes it was stated by Itachi himself during his fight against Kakashi that genjutsu doesn't work on clones. It's even for that reason that Kakashi used a clone in the first place(despite knowing tsukuyomi already). We've even seen that while in Itachi's genjutsu, the clone wasn't affected by it to the point that it even immobilised Itachi(we see him blocking Itachi) in the real world enough for him to be uncapable to dodge Naruto's following attack
 

3MESSIAH

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Oh I see, but genjutsu has nothing to do with how weak you are(it only concerns chakra), so a healthy itachi is only better than a sick itachi because he will be faster and his reflex would increase, so sasuke still wins
i am not sure.if you are weak you mold chakra worse and everything else....but still even without that itachi has an advantage...itachi has yata mirror and can defend against all amaterasu attacks that sasuke sends...and can stab his susanoo with totsuka sword and seals it and him+he has KAxd
 

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healthy itachi-prime itachi...how the hell he odesnt exist:hyper:

it`s like saying naruto>kabuto because he is trapped in izanami.prime kabuto is considered.

however it`s true that we dont know how strong prime itachi really was...but i think he was quite stronger than sick itachi...
Prime itachi is the one who wiped out uchiha clan and stomped orochimaru.
 
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3MESSIAH

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Firstly, tsukuyomi doesn't kill, it only cause a break-down in the opponents spirit. Secondly, yes it was stated by Itachi himself during his fight against Kakashi that genjutsu doesn't work on clones. It's even for that reason that Kakashi used a clone in the first place(despite knowing tsukuyomi already). We've even seen that while in Itachi's genjutsu, the clone wasn't affected by it to the point that it even immobilised Itachi(we see him blocking Itachi) in the real world enough for him to be uncapable to dodge Naruto's following attack
i think tsukuyomi could kill an opponent if itachi tortured him long enough.and i have to agree with you concerning the clones
 

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Firstly, tsukuyomi doesn't kill, it only cause a break-down in the opponents spirit. Secondly, yes it was stated by Itachi himself during his fight against Kakashi that genjutsu doesn't work on clones. It's even for that reason that Kakashi used a clone in the first place(despite knowing tsukuyomi already). We've even seen that while in Itachi's genjutsu, the clone wasn't affected by it to the point that it even immobilised Itachi(we see him blocking Itachi) in the real world enough for him to be uncapable to dodge Naruto's following attack
tsukoyomi can kill people if they're trapped in it for a long time
 

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i am talking about healthy itachi....it was hinted by obito that sasuke only broke out of tsukuyomi because itachi let him+itachi was sick....but as i was saying sasuke may be able to break out of tsukuyomi now...
Bold...

I don't where you get this, but it's obvious that it isn't true...just because Itachi was sick doesn't mean he couldn't use his full Tsukuyomi....by your own logic Itachi shouldn't have been able to use his Full Susanoo because he was sick...but it looks like that's incorrect.

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^The databook(that's written by Kishimoto himself) proofs Sasuke broke through Itachi's full Tsukuyomi.
 
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riley freeman

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i am not sure.if you are weak you mold chakra worse and everything else....but still even without that itachi has an advantage...itachi has yata mirror and can defend against all amaterasu attacks that sasuke sends...and can stab his susanoo with totsuka sword and seals it and him+he has KAxd
Yata mirror blocks only the front of susanoo(that's why kirin was able to destroy it) and amaterasu burns anything(including susanoo) plus totsuka blade takes time to seal while sasuke could just make hand sign and escape(like his fight with deidara) if he needs to.also ka was given after itachi was sick,you're giving healthy itachi sick itachi's power,that like giving sasuke curse mark, so sasuke still wins
 

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i think tsukuyomi could kill an opponent if itachi tortured him long enough.and i have to agree with you concerning the clones
tsukoyomi can kill people if they're trapped in it for a long time
Zetsu and databook disagree

Databook

Tsukuyomi said:
Namely, this means inside the genjutsu, the physical world's common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible. Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster's hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem*, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches...!!
Now in the manga, Zetsu(a neutral one who didn't care about the outcome of the fight), that since Sasuke ate tsukuyomi, he won't be capable to move
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Notice he didn't think Sasuke would die. He only stated that the fact he received Tsukuyomi, his body won't move anymore

Later again, all his concern was about how he didn't collapse after receiving tsukuyomi
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3MESSIAH

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itachi has been sick almost his entire life. i think, even before activating MS, therefore healthy itachi doesn't exist.
the so called healthy itachi you're talking about is edo itachi.



clones are made of chakra, that's why they turn into smoke once destroyed. you can't compare them to an actual human being made of blood and flesh.
there is absolutely no proof for itachi being sick before...even zetsu was surprised to see that itachi cant counter certain techniques and was expecting more of itachi....itachi was definitely stronger before

clones can think,have their senses so in common sense they could be trapped in an illussion...but i guess kishi said no
 

riley freeman

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there is absolutely no proof for itachi being sick before...even zetsu was surprised to see that itachi cant counter certain techniques and was expecting more of itachi....itachi was definitely stronger before

clones can think,have their senses so in common sense they could be trapped in an illussion...but i guess kishi said no
sick itachi would probably fight on par with regular itachi
 

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i am sure yata mirror as a spiritual weapon can be covered around the whole susanoo...kirin destroyed susanoo because itachi didnt have the time to envelope his susanoo with yata....and when someone is stabbed with totsuka he aint escaping it.he gets sealed.nagato and orochimaru is the proof
yata mirror cant cover the whole susanoo and do you think would just wait around to be hit by totsuka blade, nagato and orochimaru were caught off guard(something that sasuke never does)
 
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3MESSIAH

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Bold...

I don't where you get this, but it's obvious that it isn't true...just because Itachi was sick doesn't mean he couldn't use his full Tsukuyomi....by your own logic Itachi shouldn't have been able to use his Full Susanoo because he was sick...but it looks like that's incorrect.

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^The databook(that's written by Kishimoto himself) proofs Sasuke broke through Itachi's full Tsukuyomi.
ok you are right.i guess i misinterpreted it.but still, i am awesome:cool:
 

riley freeman

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Bold...

I don't where you get this, but it's obvious that it isn't true...just because Itachi was sick doesn't mean he couldn't use his full Tsukuyomi....by your own logic Itachi shouldn't have been able to use his Full Susanoo because he was sick...but it looks like that's incorrect.

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^The databook(that's written by Kishimoto himself) proofs Sasuke broke through Itachi's full Tsukuyomi.
This, he speaks the truth
 

3MESSIAH

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yata mirror cant cover the whole susanoo and do you think would just wait around to be hit by totsuka blade, nagato and orochimaru were caught off guard(something that sasuke never does)
you assuming that it cant and me assuming that it can is just based on our opinions...so it cant be proved....i believe itachi defeats him,you believe sasuke defeats him....let`s just agree to disagree...=D

i am awesome:cool:

nice debate :D
 
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