[FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

[RNITBmsage]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

BM + SM will happen its only a matter of time and sm is among the strongest techniques in naruto and hes been extremely successful with it soooooo nooooooo @ your theory but gj.... kinda

 

[Honord Sage]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Manga Fact Naruto did use Sage Mode and TailBest Mode against Nagato when Nagato stab Naruto and drain Him of His chakra,Kurama fill in and balance with Natural energy and Naruto's eyes were combine into Sage and Kurama Mode at the same time.

 

[Turson]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

KCM+SM are possible imho but makes no sense since i find kyuubi chakra to be more powerful thus it would water down the quality.

I see that you dont know how SM works. It wont water down the Kyuubis chakra, it will make it way more powerful instead.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

I see that you dont know how SM works. It wont water down the Kyuubis chakra, it will make it way more powerful instead.

Not at all. Kyuubi chakra is a share of juubi one, which is nature energy equivalent. Unlike nature kyuubi has spirit thus most likely augments it even further seeing how naruto is faster and stronger in KCM then SM.
Only problem that right now its yang chakra only thus only naruto's body attributes get enhanced.

Naruto is faster and stronger in KCM with is direct evidence of more powerful chakra then sage chakra therefore it will water down the power.

 

[RNITBmsage]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Not at all. Kyuubi chakra is a share of juubi one, which is nature energy equivalent. Unlike nature kyuubi has spirit thus most likely augments it even further seeing how naruto is faster and stronger in KCM then SM.
Only problem that right now its yang chakra only thus only naruto's body attributes get enhanced.

Naruto is faster and stronger in KCM with is direct evidence of more powerful chakra then sage chakra therefore it will water down the power.

no no no .....

 

[Turson]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Naruto is faster and stronger in KCM with is direct evidence of more powerful chakra then sage chakra therefore it will water down the power.

Nope. That is a prove that Narutos chakra is vastly inferior to Kuramas. Adding natural energy to your own chakra and creating new, stronger type of chakra - thats what SM is. Basically, natural energy will make any chakra stronger, just look how powerful SM Hashirama is.

If Naruto will get other half of Kurams chakra, and then combine all of that with natural energy he can be on Hashiramas level of power.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Nope. That is a prove that Narutos chakra is vastly inferior to Kuramas. Adding natural energy to your own chakra and creating new, stronger type of chakra - thats what SM is. Basically, natural energy will make any chakra stronger, just look how powerful SM Hashirama is.
If Naruto will get other half of Kurams chakra, and then combine all of that with natural energy he can be on Hashiramas level of power.

Doesnt matter, kyuubi chakra cannot be weaker then raw 100% natural energy where it originally came from.
Therefore SM cannot top it, it will only add more of same at best.
/no further debate

 

[Turson]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Doesnt matter, kyuubi chakra cannot be weaker then raw 100% natural energy where

Only, current Kurams chakra is not natural energy, its normal chakra, ontly in great quantity. If it was, only SM users would be able to sense his chakra, just like it was with Jyuubi.

 

[FearxDeath]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Oh, I thought I read somewhere that chakra return was a shadow clone only trait as well as intelligence *blah, blah* that is a fair point but also if you think about it if the clone is destroyed by Pa maybe not all of the Senjutsu chakra would have travelled, if the clone dies then it'd make sense that there would be an even smaller return in chakra so it'd be safer for Naruto to deactivate it himself correct?

Yes what you're saying is very plausible but then i'll ask you what actually is a mud clone then? woouldn't all of these clone variations simply be shadow clones with the users chakra type mixed in the fray? I still don't think that this is a shadow clone jutsu as it wouldn't be well you know, a shadow. I believe that when the jutsu is combined with the users element it is no longer the shadow clone, but instead the (Instert element here) clone, that's what water clones, lightening clones, wood clones are, etc.

So then we are on the same page, I am saying there is no chakra returned when a clone is killed and you are saying there is a significantly less chakra return, or atleast enough of a deficient in returns that Pa would rather risk Naruto's life telling him to release the technique himself rather than just killing the clone. Either way you put it my theory remains intact But very good food for thought, you are as wise as the day is long my friend.

Here is something you may find interesting. A lighting clone in japanese is a Raikage-bunshin. Bunshin stands for Clone, rai stands for lighting and kage stands for shadow. So the exact translation would be, Lighting-Shadow Clone. Any clone which takes on physicality, as in an ability to attack and cast jutsu, is infact a shadow clone. Hope that helps

 

[AlphaScythian]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Only, current Kurams chakra is not natural energy, its normal chakra, ontly in great quantity. If it was, only SM users would be able to sense his chakra, just like it was with Jyuubi.

As said above, kyuubi has its own spirit that is added to it, thus its possible for humans to sense evil chakra etc.

 

[Turson]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

As said above, kyuubi has its own spirit that is added to it, thus its possible for humans to sense evil chakra etc.

Going by that logic anyone who received chakra from Naruto should be turned to stone. Nothing in manga suggest that Kurama consist of natural energy. In fact even Kurama calls his own energy "chakra". I think he knows the best what hes made of.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Going by that logic anyone who received chakra from Naruto should be turned to stone. Nothing in manga suggest that Kurama consist of natural energy. In fact even Kurama calls his own energy "chakra". I think he knows the best what hes made of.

OFC its chakra, even juubi has chakra BUT...unlike in human case where chakra is formed from small weak body + spirit, bijus get their chakra from nature and mix with spirit. Since juubi is the mother of nature and bijus it only makes sense for them to be compatible with it.

Your logic is flawed however. They do mix kyuubi chakra with their own anyway thus no1 would ever turn to stone and chakra they received already has some kyuubi spirit.

 

[FearxDeath]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

It's not a normal shadow clone. Here's why the chakra didn't return. If you read your link carefully, you'll find that it reverts to its lighting form. This indicates that the clone is made of lightning chakra and that it's all used for the attack.

The way we are interpreting what we are seeing in the scan is going to be a point of contension for us. While you see it saying all the chakra was used for the attack, I see it showing that since 50% of his chakra is gone and shadow clones, which it is, split ones chakra between the 2 clones that that is pure proof that chakra is not returned when the clone is killed. Kakashi's Chidori outputs the same amount of chakra that that lighting that struck the pain path, and yet he uses it countless times without showing signs of a significant chakra drain.

We wont ever agree on this because we are seeing 2 different things when we look at the same scan, and I doubt i could ever convince you to see things my way and vice versa. Good day sir, great chat

 

[Turson]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

OFC its chakra, even juubi has chakra

Actually, Kurama said that Jyuubi is made of pure, natural energy. Its not even Sage chakra. Its one of 3 components that makes Sage chakra, but natural energy by itself was never named as "chakra" in the manga.

Since juubi is the mother of nature and bijus it only makes sense for them to be compatible with it.

Maybe it makes sense, but manga shows that they arent.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Actually, Kurama said that Jyuubi is made of pure, natural energy. Its not even Sage chakra. Its one of 3 components that makes Sage chakra, but natural energy by itself was never named as "chakra" in the manga.

Maybe it makes sense, but manga shows that they arent.

Thats because juubi originated nature energy, so u cant spot the difference, while bijus have different spirit added by so6p.

Regardless naruto has to mix his chakra with that of kyuubi just like he does with nature energy.
Seeing how KCM is more beneficial its clear what chakra is more powerful thus SM will water down KCM.

 

[FearxDeath]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Mostly accurate.

Chakra among clones however not always evenly split, u can choose how much power u want to share with a clone.
After killed a clone always gets information but not chakra, in fact i dont think users gets any back at all.

KCM+SM are possible imho but makes no sense since i find kyuubi chakra to be more powerful thus it would water down the quality.

Only thing I disagree with is your idea on chosing how much power to give a clone. The fact that water clones take a portion of 1/10 of your chakra and shadow clones take a divivded number of your chakra depending on how many are made is pretty much a fact in the manga.

Unless you got what we call counter-evidence im afriad I cant agree with you on this, although I agree with everything else

 

[FearxDeath]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

only thing i disagree with is your idea on chosing how much power to give a clone. The fact that water clones take a portion of 1/10 of your chakra and shadow clones take a divivded number of your chakra depending on how many are made is pretty much a fact in the manga.

Unless you got what we call counter-evidence im afriad i cant agree with you on this, although i agree with everything else

thats because juubi originated nature energy, so u cant spot the difference, while bijus have different spirit added by so6p.

Regardless naruto has to mix his chakra with that of kyuubi just like he does with nature energy.
Seeing how kcm is more beneficial its clear what chakra is more powerful thus sm will water down kcm.

well said!!!

 

[FearxDeath]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Manga Fact Naruto did use Sage Mode and TailBest Mode against Nagato when Nagato stab Naruto and drain Him of His chakra,Kurama fill in and balance with Natural energy and Naruto's eyes were combine into Sage and Kurama Mode at the same time.

Already replied to this, check my ADDED SECTION, where I respond to good comments.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Only thing I disagree with is your idea on chosing how much power to give a clone. The fact that water clones take a portion of 1/10 of your chakra and shadow clones take a divivded number of your chakra depending on how many are made is pretty much a fact in the manga.

Unless you got what we call counter-evidence im afriad I cant agree with you on this, although I agree with everything else

A counter evidence is that naruto could only make 4 clones with large stamina enough to gather SM while could make hundreds to fool deva path. In fight with neji he had to split evenly to fool neji

 

[Turson]

Re: [FEAR] Shadow Clone & Sage Mode Analysed: Sage Mode Extension No longer Viable

Thats because juubi originated nature energy, so u cant spot the difference

Jyuubi is made of natural energy. Kurama and other Bijuus are made of chakra. Two different things. It has nothing to do with "spirit".

Seeing how KCM is more beneficial its clear what chakra is more powerful thus SM will water down KCM.

Natural energy makes Narutos chakra:
a) better in quality
b) bigger by 33,3%

Its clear that SM Naruto is weaker than KCM Naruto, since Kuramas chakra is vastly bigger than Narutos, even in SM. However, natural energy would work in the same way with Kuramas chakra. If BM Naruto combined his chakras with natural energy it would make them:
a)better in quality
b)bigger by 33,3%

Therefore, BM/SM would be much, much stronger than BM Naruto.