[Theory] Rikudo's Jinchuriki Power [Explained]

[david098]

your wrong on kuramas part kurama granted naruto wind realse to him when naruto was little

uhhhhh wut....

 

[FearxDeath]

Spoiler

Dude I have listened to what you are saying but I have never seen Yugito use blue fire in the manga. She might use it, when the anime gets to the point of Yugito as Edo attacking Bee, but so far, blue fire has not been proven. Her bijou cat form is blue, but the fire the cat fired, was orange red. Maybe her fire jutsu will be blue, i wouldnt be surprised if it is, but I have never seen her use blue fire in the manga or anime.
If there is some cannon picture or footage about her using blue fire as a fire attack, than I have missed that (or is the picture you linked based on a cannon picture? Link that one in that case please).
Btw there was no mentioning of blue fire in your opening post. It was written as improved fire style and since she uses some sort of rat hair balls who are on fire and are guided missles if I remember correct from the manga, I assumed that was the improved fire part. I couldnt know anything about the blue part, but I did read the improved fire part.

I know you said rare, but if someone can get lava release without bijou (even if its rare), than it doesnt HAVE TO come from a bijou for Roshi. He probably has it from the bijou, I believe that too, but he doesnt have to. Kurotsuchi has it too and she doesnt have a bijou.
However what is possible, is that the lava release users in the series, are somehow linked to the first lava release user or it happens by some other means.

Dont write things like me not reading well and ignoring things, when it is not the case.
I can read everything carefully enough, but that doesnt have to mean that i agree with everything.

It is possible that Hashi could be lucky, but it is also possible that he has Mokuton, because it was in active form in him and maybe dormant in other senju. That it was passed down from the senju ancestor, the younger son, to Hashirama.
If Sharingan is a Juubi power, than it isnt weird to think that Mokuton is so as well. Seeing how the Juubi and bijou are controlled by Mokuton and Sharingan powers. Sharingan and Mokuton seem to complement each other really well.

I never said yin yang wasnt a Juubi and Sage power btw. The manga even said the sage has it.
It is required to do several jutsu. You need it to control the gedo as well. So that was basically already fact for me (even though it isnt 100% fact in the manga yet, that it came from the Juubi, but pretty close to it. I believe it as well).
I think the sage was given Mokuton and dojutsu power as well, on top of yin yang release.

I feel like Mokuton is different from steam release. Even though Hashi is a great ninja, Mokuton is something that creates life. Steam isnt life. I dont think Hashi would be able to make as great a name for steam release, as he can for Mokuton, even though he would probably be better at it than others.

I hope you can see that I did read your posts carefully enough, but I just dont agree with every single thing.

Good point, ill remove improved fire imediantly.

Good point, Bijuus dont grant powers to there jinchuriki, its all a hoax

Good point, we dont know what power the Juubi gave to the SO6P so lets just forget about it

Good point, Juubi is made out of Mokuton supposebly and although we havent seen it use one Mokuton jutsu, I am sure it passed down Mokuton to the SO6P which passed it down to the Senju Family, which is was after several generations we have only seen 1 Mokuton user which is hashirama, too bad he wasnt as generous with the Senju as he was with the Uchiha who all can use the Sharingan.

You read my thread and you disagree, I accept that. Cant make them all happy, I dont even bother.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I like the conclusion of the Juubi giving the Yin/Yang Release power, but about the Hyuuga/Uzumaki relationship... I think it has a flaw.

Why did Madara awake the Rinnegan only with Uchiha/Senju DNA, without having any chakra from that beast?

Even if Uchiha/Senju is a bloodline derivated from the Uzumaki (Sir Derp Obito's theory), even if the Sharingan is an evolution from the well known Byakugan (folklore told by Kakashi on the Pre-eliminars Chuunin Exam, in part 1), Madara still lacks the Juubi chakra. By this mean, I want to tell that it doesn't make sense that only the Uchiha's branch inherited the eyes... even the Senju clan should be able to awake some kind of doujutsu with lesser powers. That told, I highly doubt that the Sage has Hyuuga's blood. He had to be a pure Uzumaki, or an Uzumaki ancestor.

---

Please, about what is not highlighted in bold, it is just my opinion. Don't mind it, what really is important is that your theory is interesting, and your conclusion has a lot of sense.

 

[FearxDeath]

I like the conclusion of the Juubi giving the Yin/Yang Release power, but about the Hyuuga/Uzumaki relationship... I think it has a flaw.

Why did Madara awake the Rinnegan only with Uchiha/Senju DNA, without having any chakra from that beast?

Even if Uchiha/Senju is a bloodline derivated from the Uzumaki (Sir Derp Obito's theory), even if the Sharingan is an evolution from the well known Byakugan (folklore told by Kakashi on the Pre-eliminars Chuunin Exam, in part 1), Madara still lacks the Juubi chakra. By this mean, I want to tell that it doesn't make sense that only the Uchiha's branch inherited the eyes... even the Senju clan should be able to awake some kind of doujutsu with lesser powers. That told, I highly doubt that the Sage has Hyuuga's blood. He had to be a pure Uzumaki, or an Uzumaki ancestor.

---

Please, about what is not highlighted in bold, it is just my opinion. Don't mind it, what really is important is that your theory is interesting, and your conclusion has a lot of sense.

It doesnt sense to you because you dont understand the theory behind it, if you did you would understand why it doesnt make sense. I'll have to ask derp for a link to his thread on this sooner or later so I can just link it whenever I refer to it.

First off I would like to say that the Rinnegan and the Juubi are unrelated, atleast in this instance.

The SO6P became the jinchuriki of the Juubi, upon releasing it and sealing it in the moon a portion of the Juubis chakra/power stayed within him, much like how Gaara can still control the sands without Shukaku. This corrupt chakra as derp put it was passed down to the elder son via his eyes, which is why his eyes are a spiral shape rather than the circular shape of a rinnegan. Overtime that spiral eye became the sharingan.

The Uzumaki/Hyuga have nothing to do with the Rinnegan, my theory merely works on the assumption that the SO6P turned his Byakugan into a Rinnegan as oppose to the notion that he had no doujutsu and then magically got a Rinnegan later on. But my theory and the Senju/Uchiha are not related in anyway.

You premise about Madara missing the Juubi chakra doesnt make sense. The SO6P had 2 sons, the elder son had special yes and the younger son had a special body. The elder create the Uchiha and the younger the Senju. In order to create the Rinnegan both the eyes of an Uchiha and the Body of a Senju is required, or atleast that is what we know of so far. So it stands to reason that if Hashirama had Madara's eyes implanted into him he would too have been able to awaken the Rinnegan... I hope that answers your question?

 

[Mr Hiru]

So, the only reason you think that the Sage is mid-Hyuuga is because you think the Rinnegan couldn't awake from nowhere?

That's the problem... if this is the case, why none of the Senju had some eye-related power, weaker than the Uchihas? Genetically, a quarter of the Uchiha had to inherit a variation of the Sharingan with the part of the Byakugan properties (this one is half true, because all of the Uchiha can see chakra with their Sharingan)... but another quarter of the Senju had to inherit a Byakugan-related doujutsu with lesser powers (and this isn't the case).

So, even if the Rinnegan has nothing to do with the Juubi, it has something to do with the passed bloodline...

Where are the powers of the Byakugan derivated into the sons? The Elder Son Eyes can't be the answer, that pattern was product of the Yin influence of the Juubi (and you say it has nothing to do with the Rinnegan, I interpreted you in that way, I didn't misunderstand anything)... Being the Byakugan something that the Sage had (taken from your theory), then it had to be inherited in a quarter of both heirs, Uchiha and Senju.

 

[Meowazziel]

Good point, ill remove improved fire imediantly.

Good point, Bijuus dont grant powers to there jinchuriki, its all a hoax

Good point, we dont know what power the Juubi gave to the SO6P so lets just forget about it

Good point, Juubi is made out of Mokuton supposebly and although we havent seen it use one Mokuton jutsu, I am sure it passed down Mokuton to the SO6P which passed it down to the Senju Family, which is was after several generations we have only seen 1 Mokuton user which is hashirama, too bad he wasnt as generous with the Senju as he was with the Uchiha who all can use the Sharingan.

You read my thread and you disagree, I accept that. Cant make them all happy, I dont even bother.

Now you seem to be sarcastic, especially with the hoax part.
I dont think that is necessary. I have been respectful in every single post to you.
(I agreed with some parts and complimented the theory in my first post, but that seems to fall on deaf ears).

To finish the reply.

The Juubi could have used Mokuton jutsus. The spikes that killed Neji for example and the mini Juubi clones.
Zetsu was created with Hashi's DNA and the Gedo Mazo. These Juubi clones seem similar to his ability.
I am not the only one on the base either who believes the Juubi and Mokuton linked.

Mokuton is rare indeed. We only know one person by fact who has it (and all the others use his DNA).
Senju's have more power than just Mokuton. Its not like all Senju without Mokuton have nothing. Their body and physical energy are better than others for the senju, so the sage passed at least that on to the Senju and the Mokuton part could be really rare or have some other requirement. I dont know if Kishi will go into detail about that.
The Uchiha have EMS, MS and jutsus like Susanoo that are rare (we know more persons with these jutsu than Mokuton though). Most of the sharingan uchiha users had normal sharingan. Not all uchiha unlock sharingan.

Since we speak theory wise, I could be wrong as well of course.

We have different views and different arguments on some parts and that is fine.
Probably better to just agree to disagree.

she couldnt control the bijuus power
naruto couldnt sense hate b4 defeating the kyuubi.

Obito controlled the Edo jinchuriki's and had full control over them, so indirectly as Edo, Yugito had the control.
In addition you could have some powers of your bijou if you dont have complete control yet.

 

[FearxDeath]

So, the only reason you think that the Sage is mid-Hyuuga is because you think the Rinnegan couldn't awake from nowhere?

That's the problem... if this is the case, why none of the Senju had some eye-related power, weaker than the Uchihas? Genetically, a quarter of the Uchiha had to inherit a variation of the Sharingan with the part of the Byakugan properties (this one is half true, because all of the Uchiha can see chakra with their Sharingan)... but another quarter of the Senju had to inherit a Byakugan-related doujutsu with lesser powers (and this isn't the case).

So, even if the Rinnegan has nothing to do with the Juubi, it has something to do with the passed bloodline...

Where are the powers of the Byakugan derivated into the sons? The Elder Son Eyes can't be the answer, that pattern was product of the Yin influence of the Juubi (and you say it has nothing to do with the Rinnegan, I interpreted you in that way, I didn't misunderstand anything)... Being the Byakugan something that the Sage had (taken from your theory), then it had to be inherited in a quarter of both heirs, Uchiha and Senju.

I didn't want to read any of what you said past the first sentence. I give 2 reasons as to why I believe he is half hyuga and what you said is not one of them. But I'll go on anyways.

Manga clearly states he had to sons and gave his elder son his eyes and gave his younger son his body. Derp has suggested in the past that the sons were created via creation of all things jutsu. But To continue to use your logic as to why the senju don't have some weaker version of the byakugan why don't you explain why they don't have sharingans?

 

[Mr Hiru]

I didn't want to read any of what you said past the first sentence. I give 2 reasons as to why I believe he is half hyuga and what you said is not one of them. But I'll go on anyways.

Manga clearly states he had to sons and gave his elder son his eyes and gave his younger son his body. Derp has suggested in the past that the sons were created via creation of all things jutsu. But To continue to use your logic as to why the senju don't have some weaker version of the byakugan why don't you explain why they don't have sharingans?

I said it already. The sharingan is a product of the Yin influence of the Juubi, a creature that already had ocular powers. It has nothing to do with the supposed Sage's Byakugan.

The Sir Derp Obito's Theory says these sons were created by the Yin-Yang Release: Creation of All Things. Well, I don't even need a theory. The manga states that the Juubi was divided and then rendered as the Nine beasts, with the same technique.

I would add that the body and lifeforce (yang) was sealed in the moon, and the mind and spiritual power (yin) was converted into these beasts, who managed to regain balance to another yang part that contained them... the Jinchuurikis. The reason a Jinchuuriki dies when the Bijuu is extracted is because basically you're extracting most of its spiritual power from the body. That said, it makes sense Kushina survived the Kurama's extraction, and it even support the possibility of the Sage being an Uzumaki ancestor/Uzumaki (being the last possibility stated by Sir Derp Obito).

 

[FearxDeath]

Now you seem to be sarcastic, especially with the hoax part.
I dont think that is necessary. I have been respectful in every single post to you.
(I agreed with some parts and complimented the theory in my first post, but that seems to fall on deaf ears).

To finish the reply.

The Juubi could have used Mokuton jutsus. The spikes that killed Neji for example and the mini Juubi clones.
Zetsu was created with Hashi's DNA and the Gedo Mazo. These Juubi clones seem similar to his ability.
I am not the only one on the base either who believes the Juubi and Mokuton linked.

Mokuton is rare indeed. We only know one person by fact who has it (and all the others use his DNA).
Senju's have more power than just Mokuton. Its not like all Senju without Mokuton have nothing. Their body and physical energy are better than others for the senju, so the sage passed at least that on to the Senju and the Mokuton part could be really rare or have some other requirement. I dont know if Kishi will go into detail about that.
The Uchiha have EMS, MS and jutsus like Susanoo that are rare (we know more persons with these jutsu than Mokuton though). Most of the sharingan uchiha users had normal sharingan. Not all uchiha unlock sharingan.

Since we speak theory wise, I could be wrong as well of course.

We have different views and different arguments on some parts and that is fine.
Probably better to just agree to disagree.

Obito controlled the Edo jinchuriki's and had full control over them, so indirectly as Edo, Yugito had the control.
In addition you could have some powers of your bijou if you dont have complete control yet.

I don't want to come off as any ruder than I've already been. But I am no longer interested in this "debate". I'm not a teacher and I don't get paid for doing it. I normally do it anyways out of the principle of it but this time I'd rather not. You win, the so6p passed down mokuton to the senju but made it so rare that it is only seen one time ever. Makes sense, he's a genius. Wonder why he didn't do the same thing with the sharingan.

Btw a lot of people in the uchiha clan had sharingans, all of the uchiha military had them which was most of the Vila... Forget I said this, I am finished, you win.

 

[FearxDeath]

I said it already. The sharingan is a product of the Yin influence of the Juubi, a creature that already had ocular powers. It has nothing to do with the supposed Sage's Byakugan.

The Sir Derp Obito's Theory says these sons were created by the Yin-Yang Release: Creation of All Things. Well, I don't even need a theory. The manga states that the Juubi was divided and then rendered as the Nine beasts, with the same technique.

I would add that the body and lifeforce (yang) was sealed in the moon, and the mind and spiritual power (yin) was converted into these beasts, who managed to regain balance to another yang part that contained them... the Jinchuurikis. The reason a Jinchuuriki dies when the Bijuu is extracted is because basically you're extracting most of its spiritual power from the body. That said, it makes sense Kushina survived the Kurama's extraction, and it even support the possibility of the Sage being an Uzumaki ancestor/Uzumaki (being the last possibility stated by Sir Derp Obito).

Question, do you believe that the so6p had 2 sons with the elder having his eyes and his younger son having his body. And if so why do you think both sons didn't have his eyes and body as science would dictate.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Question, do you believe that the so6p had 2 sons with the elder having his eyes and his younger son having his body. And if so why do you think both sons didn't have his eyes and body as science would dictate.

You have a good question. There are two things I can state:

a) I "should" believe that these sons were not made generically, but only with the Yin Yang Release, so in that case, it makes sense that they were perfectly divided, genetically.

b) Based on a), if we fuse both DNA, the combination of both genes should create someone with the Younger brother's body, and the Elder brother's eyes. But manga states something different... Madara didn't awake the Elder Son's eyes, nor the Younger Son's body. He awakened the Rinnegan. How come he got the Rinnegan if the Byakugan couldn't be inherited genetically, based on a)? Contradiction

It isn't even stated that the Byakugan is a Yin dominant Doujutsu. It even doesn't anything to do with Genjutsus... do you see where am I getting at? The Byakugan is more related to the body than the mind... it is Yang dominant. So under the supposition that the Sage create two sons, the Senju had to get the Byakugan for that sole reason... That, or both Clans had to get some influence.

 

[FearxDeath]

Spoiler

I said it already. The sharingan is a product of the Yin influence of the Juubi, a creature that already had ocular powers. It has nothing to do with the supposed Sage's Byakugan.

The Sir Derp Obito's Theory says these sons were created by the Yin-Yang Release: Creation of All Things. Well, I don't even need a theory. The manga states that the Juubi was divided and then rendered as the Nine beasts, with the same technique.

I would add that the body and lifeforce (yang) was sealed in the moon, and the mind and spiritual power (yin) was converted into these beasts, who managed to regain balance to another yang part that contained them... the Jinchuurikis. The reason a Jinchuuriki dies when the Bijuu is extracted is because basically you're extracting most of its spiritual power from the body. That said, it makes sense Kushina survived the Kurama's extraction, and it even support the possibility of the Sage being an Uzumaki ancestor/Uzumaki (being the last possibility stated by Sir Derp Obito).

I am trying to respond to what you are saying but I am having a very hard time understanding the point that you are trying to make. I even went all the way back to the first reply you made and I sorta have a better idea but I still dont understand. Eitherway what has been said above ^ I cant do anything with as it doesnt relate to anything I have said so far. And the part about removing the Jinchuriki's spiritual power is just flat out wrong. Eitherway below I will just reply to your original reply again in the hopes of salvaging the train wreck that is this conversation. x__x

I like the conclusion of the Juubi giving the Yin/Yang Release power, but about the Hyuuga/Uzumaki relationship... I think it has a flaw.

Why did Madara awake the Rinnegan only with Uchiha/Senju DNA, without having any chakra from that beast?

Even if Uchiha/Senju is a bloodline derivated from the Uzumaki (Sir Derp Obito's theory), even if the Sharingan is an evolution from the well known Byakugan (folklore told by Kakashi on the Pre-eliminars Chuunin Exam, in part 1), Madara still lacks the Juubi chakra. By this mean, I want to tell that it doesn't make sense that only the Uchiha's branch inherited the eyes... even the Senju clan should be able to awake some kind of doujutsu with lesser powers. That told, I highly doubt that the Sage has Hyuuga's blood. He had to be a pure Uzumaki, or an Uzumaki ancestor.

---

Please, about what is not highlighted in bold, it is just my opinion. Don't mind it, what really is important is that your theory is interesting, and your conclusion has a lot of sense. Loved this part ty

Pay very close attention to what i say and try to respond to each point I make, I will number the points for ease of reading.

1) TY I am glad you liked my thread, Ok So you say that there is a flaw in the fact that I beileve the SO6P is half Uzumaki and half Hyuga, So i will assume everything following this will be related to that some how.

2) Why would Madara need chakra from the beast? This is what confuses me? I dont want to guess at what you mean as that may confuse things a bit, but just know that this question you ask needs to be elaborated in order for me to properly answer it as right now it doesnt make sense to my.

3) Ok in the next paragraph you elaborate a bit on this, let me see if I can grasp what your trying to say. Ok you say that it doesnt make sense that only the Uchiha inherited the eyes. Why doesnt it make sense? The Manga clearly states that the SO6P gave his elder son the eyes, who then founded the Uchiha, and gave his younger son the body, who then founded the Senju. Elaborate on why it doesnt make sense, and then I can better answer this.

4) You end by saying you highly doubt the Sage had Hyuga blood, I have gone on to create a different thread explaining why I believe that he does have Hyuga Blood and I reccomend you read it. [

You must be registered for see links

]

Hopefully this straightens things up enjoy the read and please reply if you have any other questions.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I guess 3) is the main confusion I have. Let me re-organize:

You're saying that the Rinnegan doesn't awake by consequence of the influence of the beast, but it's only an evolution of the Byakugan... the power granted by the beast is the Yin Yang Release. You said he awakened the Rinnegan by other means. Let me call the Rinnegan "Neo-Byakugan".

Based on this, after SO6P became Jinchuuriki, he created two sons using Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things, where the Younger Son inherited the Yang: Body and Lifeforce, while the Elder Son inherited the Yin: Mind and Spiritual Energy.

The Younger son had a body "different from" the current Senju Clan, as the Elder Son had a pair of eyes "different from" the current Uchiha Clan. As generations passed down, the genes were doing some evolution until the point of becoming the current Uchiha and Senju Clan.

If the Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things perfectly copied and then segregated the DNA of the Sage, and as result we obtained the Elder and the Younger Son, the current "Neo-Byakugan" of the Sage had to be divided into Two classes of Eyes (The Yin and the Yang)... I suppose this is a plot hole. The only special eyes we could see were the ones that had the Elder Son, the eyes that resembles the Uzumaki Clan Symbol, the Yin part. Where is the other part of the Rinnegan?

...was it lost? How did Madara manage to achieve the Neo-Byakugan? You said that the Rinnegan is a Doujutsu that was obtained by having the Byakugan previously, by some unknown means.

There is the contradiction I see... there is a part of the Rinnegan that was lost in the Younger Son's branch. If the Creation of All things perfectly divide the Yin and Yang, the Elder son had to get most powerful doujutsu and the weaker body, while the Younger son had to inherit the most powerful body and the lesser doujutsu (I'll explain now why it does have to be this way).

The question you maybe would make to me is... "Why both of them would have to inherit both traits in different proportions, if the Juubi Jinchuuriki's Jutsu perfectly divide things in Yin and Yang?

We could have to analyze what's the Yin and Yang in the Thaoism in order to demonstrate that the Rinnegan had to divide into two different set of eyes instead of what we currently see (and the Sage's Body).

You must be registered for see images

"Every Yin has a little part of Yang, every Yang has a little part of Yin"

In order to achieve the segregation, both sons had to inherit eyes and body... the Elder Son having the most powerful eyes and the lesser body, and the Younger son having the most powerful body and the lesser eyes.

What manga shows is different... if the Younger Son inherited only the Body then he would have normal eyes and a powerful body, and that is what we currently know, that is all right.

If the Elder Son inherited only the Eyes then he would have powerful eyes... but damn, under the definition of Yin, the Elder Son wouldn't even have a body... that doesn't make sense at all.

So, I'll keep talking from the Thaoism point of view (the most logic point of view): I can't understand where is that lost part of the Rinnegan. If that part was lost, there is no way Madara could awake the Rinnegan only with Senju DNA. It had to be something more special...

--- Under that logic, the only thing that makes sense to me is that the Sage didn't have any genetic doujutsu and awakened the Rinnegan as a product of the Juubi's influence, and this trait was passed to the Elder Son using the chakra circulatory system (the way Sharingan works). And this would answer why Madara would awake the Rinnegan with Senju DNA, and why Madara now is able to use the Mokuton Element.

-------

If you read these paragraph (that are more elaborated) I will deeply thank you. As I say, that is my confusion. Would you mind giving me a link to the topic where you explain better the Hyuuga-Uzumaki relationship with the Sage?

 

[FearxDeath]

Spoiler

I guess 3) is the main confusion I have. Let me re-organize:

You're saying that the Rinnegan doesn't awake by consequence of the influence of the beast, but it's only an evolution of the Byakugan... the power granted by the beast is the Yin Yang Release. You said he awakened the Rinnegan by other means. Let me call the Rinnegan "Neo-Byakugan".

Based on this, after SO6P became Jinchuuriki, he created two sons using Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things, where the Younger Son inherited the Yang: Body and Lifeforce, while the Elder Son inherited the Yin: Mind and Spiritual Energy.

The Younger son had a body "different from" the current Senju Clan, as the Elder Son had a pair of eyes "different from" the current Uchiha Clan. As generations passed down, the genes were doing some evolution until the point of becoming the current Uchiha and Senju Clan.

If the Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things perfectly copied and then segregated the DNA of the Sage, and as result we obtained the Elder and the Younger Son, the current "Neo-Byakugan" of the Sage had to be divided into Two classes of Eyes (The Yin and the Yang)... I suppose this is a plot hole. The only special eyes we could see were the ones that had the Elder Son, the eyes that resembles the Uzumaki Clan Symbol, the Yin part. Where is the other part of the Rinnegan?

...was it lost? How did Madara manage to achieve the Neo-Byakugan? You said that the Rinnegan is a Doujutsu that was obtained by having the Byakugan previously, by some unknown means.

There is the contradiction I see... there is a part of the Rinnegan that was lost in the Younger Son's branch. If the Creation of All things perfectly divide the Yin and Yang, the Elder son had to get most powerful doujutsu and the weaker body, while the Younger son had to inherit the most powerful body and the lesser doujutsu (I'll explain now why it does have to be this way).

The question you maybe would make to me is... "Why both of them would have to inherit both traits in different proportions, if the Juubi Jinchuuriki's Jutsu perfectly divide things in Yin and Yang?

We could have to analyze what's the Yin and Yang in the Thaoism in order to demonstrate that the Rinnegan had to divide into two different set of eyes instead of what we currently see (and the Sage's Body).

You must be registered for see images

"Every Yin has a little part of Yang, every Yang has a little part of Yin"

In order to achieve the segregation, both sons had to inherit eyes and body... the Elder Son having the most powerful eyes and the lesser body, and the Younger son having the most powerful body and the lesser eyes.

What manga shows is different... if the Younger Son inherited only the Body then he would have normal eyes and a powerful body, and that is what we currently know, that is all right.

If the Elder Son inherited only the Eyes then he would have powerful eyes... but damn, under the definition of Yin, the Elder Son wouldn't even have a body... that doesn't make sense at all.

So, I'll keep talking from the Thaoism point of view (the most logic point of view): I can't understand where is that lost part of the Rinnegan. If that part was lost, there is no way Madara could awake the Rinnegan only with Senju DNA. It had to be something more special...

--- Under that logic, the only thing that makes sense to me is that the Sage didn't have any genetic doujutsu and awakened the Rinnegan as a product of the Juubi's influence, and this trait was passed to the Elder Son using the chakra circulatory system (the way Sharingan works). And this would answer why Madara would awake the Rinnegan with Senju DNA, and why Madara now is able to use the Mokuton Element.

-------

If you read these paragraph (that are more elaborated) I will deeply thank you. As I say, that is my confusion. Would you mind giving me a link to the topic where you explain better the Hyuuga-Uzumaki relationship with the Sage?

1) I believe this is the first place you become confused "...was it lost? How did Madara manage to achieve the Neo-Byakugan? You said that the Rinnegan is a Doujutsu that was obtained by having the Byakugan previously, by some unknown means.... there is a part of the Rinnegan that was lost in the Younger Son's branch. If the Creation of All things perfectly divide the Yin and Yang, the Elder son had to get most powerful doujutsu and the weaker body, while the Younger son had to inherit the most powerful body and the lesser doujutsu (I'll explain now why it does have to be this way)." Everything that comes after this is kind of not convincing.

Now my answer to this is simply put like this. Let us assume that my theory never existed and all we have is the Manga. Now in the manga the SO6P created his sons as we already know. Now if your theory was correct, then why doesnt the current Senju have some lesser form of the Sharingan? Was that merely lost? I dont see how introducing a Byakugan prior to the SO6P getting his Rinnegan changes things so drastically as to invoke your question. Even if my theory were out of the picture, your question would still be, to you, valid. And thus why ask it in the scheme of my question as oppose to in the scheme of the Manga in general?

2) But to point out another way you could be wrong, as even you stated before, some of the Uchiha never even awaken there Sharingans. Yet they too still have the Yin in there body. And that is more yin than the Senju could dream of having. So doesnt it stand to reason that the Senju may have good normals eyes apart from having some crazy doujutsu, or just not have the ability to awaken there doujutsu if they had one?

3) Your point is becoming clearer by the minute, but you need to elaborate a bit more on the difference between how your theory interacts with my theory and how it interacts with the Manga in general. And why it interacting with my theory causes confusions. Remember if you have any other information feel free to tell it, as leaving out even something you consider to be a small subject could potentially be crucial for me to understand your view.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Well, to answer raw-ly, if your theory doesn't exist...

a) The Sage become the Juubi Jinchuuriki and awakens the Rinnegan product of the corruption of the hatred inside the Bijuu (it's not magic, the Juubi had a doujutsu that seems like a 9-tomoe sharingan with the Rinnegan cyclic pattern).

b) The Sage would use the Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things, replicate himself, segregate the DNA of the replica, and create the Younger and Elder son; The Younger Son would inherit the most powerful body with a great life force (Yang), The Elder Son would inherit the most powerful eyes with a great spiritual energy (Yin).

---

The well known Sharingan "now" is known as a legacy that has been passed down generations, but I think it could perfectly be born originally from the corruption of the Juubi, without the Sage having any previous Doujutsu. This trait would be manifested in some of the members of the Uchiha clan, this is explained in a).

The same occurs with the strong body, it could been passed down generations, and it could be perfectly born from... the body of the Sage. This trait would be manifested in some of the members of the Senju clan.

The reason for the Younger son to inherit the Sage's body without (or almost without) Juubi hatred influence is pretty simple... most of the Yang part of the Juubi was sealed in the Moon before the sons were created. But most of the Juubi's Yin was still inside the Sage, in the form of 9 tailed beasts, each one with a little yang part (this explains why these beasts were known for being a great mass of chakra with tremendous spiritual energy and sources of hatred that consumes the souls of each Jinchuuriki).

So, if each beast at this point had more Yin than Yang, you need Yang to seal these beasts... "Jinchuurikis", with great lifeforce. The reason for Kushina, Mito, and even the Sage to be able to hold these masses of chakra, was simple... they had great lifeforces (the manga states that in the case of Gaara, even being the youngest of three sons, he was the first one to be compatible with Ichibi no Shukaku. He was born premature, and even so he was able to survive, at the cost of his mother's life). No any person can become Jinchuuriki, that's pretty clear... it can only be someone with great Lifeforce (This explains too why Madara can't be Jinchuuriki in his current state).

Finally, below my point of view, aluding to the "spiritual energy", the reason of why the Senju currently don't manifest any doujutsu is simple... it's because what was inherited in the case of this clan for the eyes was not a genetical or physical trait, it was just spiritual energy, not strong enough to manifest physically as it did with some of the Elder Son's descendents.

---

Conclusion:

- When the Elder Son's branch members have a very high influence of the Yin element, they awake a doujutsu. In the case of the Uchiha Clan, it's the Sharingan.

- When the Younger Son's branch members have a very high influence of the Yang element, they develop a body with great strength and/or lifeforce.

- The core-organ of production of chakra is the heart (Look at the Sannin Battle Saga of part 1, when Kabuto stopped Naruto's heart... Kabuto states this). When the chakra circulatory system produces Yang's influenced chakra and it's manifested through Yin influenced eyes (or when Yin Yang is balanced in the body), the user awakens the Rinnegan (The Sage and Madara met these requirements).

 

[FearxDeath]

Spoiler

Well, to answer raw-ly, if your theory doesn't exist...

a) The Sage become the Juubi Jinchuuriki and awakens the Rinnegan product of the corruption of the hatred inside the Bijuu (it's not magic, the Juubi had a doujutsu that seems like a 9-tomoe sharingan with the Rinnegan cyclic pattern).

b) The Sage would use the Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things, replicate himself, segregate the DNA of the replica, and create the Younger and Elder son; The Younger Son would inherit the most powerful body with a great life force (Yang), The Elder Son would inherit the most powerful eyes with a great spiritual energy (Yin).

---

The well known Sharingan "now" is known as a legacy that has been passed down generations, but I think it could perfectly be born originally from the corruption of the Juubi, without the Sage having any previous Doujutsu. This trait would be manifested in some of the members of the Uchiha clan, this is explained in a).

The same occurs with the strong body, it could been passed down generations, and it could be perfectly born from... the body of the Sage. This trait would be manifested in some of the members of the Senju clan.

The reason for the Younger son to inherit the Sage's body without (or almost without) Juubi hatred influence is pretty simple... most of the Yang part of the Juubi was sealed in the Moon before the sons were created. But most of the Juubi's Yin was still inside the Sage, in the form of 9 tailed beasts, each one with a little yang part (this explains why these beasts were known for being a great mass of chakra with tremendous spiritual energy and sources of hatred that consumes the souls of each Jinchuuriki).

So, if each beast at this point had more Yin than Yang, you need Yang to seal these beasts... "Jinchuurikis", with great lifeforce. The reason for Kushina, Mito, and even the Sage to be able to hold these masses of chakra, was simple... they had great lifeforces (the manga states that in the case of Gaara, even being the youngest of three sons, he was the first one to be compatible with Ichibi no Shukaku. He was born premature, and even so he was able to survive, at the cost of his mother's life). No any person can become Jinchuuriki, that's pretty clear... it can only be someone with great Lifeforce (This explains too why Madara can't be Jinchuuriki in his current state).

Finally, below my point of view, aluding to the "spiritual energy", the reason of why the Senju currently don't manifest any doujutsu is simple... it's because what was inherited in the case of this clan for the eyes was not a generical or physical trait, it was just spiritual energy, not strong enough to manifest physically as it did with some of the Elder Son's descendents.

---

Conclusion:

- When the Elder Son's branch members have a very high influence of the Yin element, they awake a doujutsu. In the case of the Uchiha Clan, it's the Sharingan.

- When the Younger Son's branch members have a very high influence of the Yang element, they develop a body with great strength and/or lifeforce.

- The core-organ of production of chakra is the heart (Look at the Sannin Battle Saga of part 1, when Kabuto stopped Naruto's heart... Kabuto states this). When the chakra circulatory system produces Yang's influenced chakra and it's manifested through Yin influenced eyes (or when Yin Yang is balanced in the body), the user awakens the Rinnegan (The Sage and Madara met these requirements).

Now we are getting somewhere!

"Finally, below my point of view, aluding to the "spiritual energy", the reason of why the Senju currently don't manifest any doujutsu is simple... it's because what was inherited in the case of this clan for the eyes was not a generical or physical trait, it was just spiritual energy, not strong enough to manifest physically as it did with some of the Elder Son's descendents." This is what I have been looking for. Now why does the above, not apply to my theory as well?

Another thing

"The core-organ of production of chakra is the heart (Look at the Sannin Battle Saga of part 1, when Kabuto stopped Naruto's heart... Kabuto states this). When the chakra circulatory system produces Yang's influenced chakra and it's manifested through Yin influenced eyes (or when Yin Yang is balanced in the body), the user awakens the Rinnegan (The Sage and Madara met these requirements)." This is incorrect. In this you imply that the Yin and Yang energies are products of the Chakra system when it is actually vice versa. Chakra is infact create by a ninja mixing the yin and yang energies inside of his body. [

You must be registered for see links

] I think that little fact my be a point of contention between us.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Now we are getting somewhere!

"Finally, below my point of view, aluding to the "spiritual energy", the reason of why the Senju currently don't manifest any doujutsu is simple... it's because what was inherited in the case of this clan for the eyes was not a generical or physical trait, it was just spiritual energy, not strong enough to manifest physically as it did with some of the Elder Son's descendents." This is what I have been looking for. Now why does the above, not apply to my theory as well?

Another thing

"The core-organ of production of chakra is the heart (Look at the Sannin Battle Saga of part 1, when Kabuto stopped Naruto's heart... Kabuto states this). When the chakra circulatory system produces Yang's influenced chakra and it's manifested through Yin influenced eyes (or when Yin Yang is balanced in the body), the user awakens the Rinnegan (The Sage and Madara met these requirements)." This is incorrect. In this you imply that the Yin and Yang energies are products of the Chakra system when it is actually vice versa. Chakra is infact create by a ninja mixing the yin and yang energies inside of his body. [

You must be registered for see links

] I think that little fact my be a point of contention between us.

a) Your theory would not bug me if the Sage hadn't Byakugan. The spiritual energy can be there without manifesting physically. But the Byakugan is a physicial trait that exists in every Hyuuga member... it doesn't appear by chance. Furthermore, taking in mind its properties and abilities... it seems like it's Yang (so the requirements for this ability to be inherited in the Younger son's branch seems plausible, because the Yin influenced doujutsu "Sharingan" is in the Elder Son's branch). Why not any Senju member has this ability or something alike? That Yang part of the Rinnegan couldn't just dissappear. This is what bugs me.

b) It is implied by Yamato, Kakashi, Jirayia, Shikamaru and Ino that Yin and Yang are in fact elements [

You must be registered for see links

], not just the origin of the chakra (Shikamaru/Ino clans use Dark and Light as elements for its jutsus). It is explained that the Yin Yang release is the origin of some element-less jutsus as Kage Bunshin, Bunshin, Genjutsus, Medical Ninjutsu, Multi-Size jutsus and other ones. Analyze it... in the end, it's the body with the mind what produces the chakra, and in the case of Rikudou, he had both in order to awake the Rinnegan, and in case of Madara, he had a heart made of Hashirama's cells producing chakra, and his Fuumetsu Mangekyo Sharingan and his mind projecting it.

 

[Rikudou Sennin balls]

The Rikudou Sennin was born with the rinnegan and a great physical body. He was a freak of nature like Harashima and Madara. The difference is both Harashima and Madara are a byproduct of him.

It's probably assumed that when he gave the older son his "eyes" and the younger son his "body" it was metaphorically. The reason why he was able to defeat the Jubi was because he could use any technique, any element and both yin/yang. The sage didn't belong to any clans because clans are ninja family which didn't exist back then because ninjutsu was something taught by the Rikudou Sennin

 

[Mr Hiru]

The Rikudou Sennin was born with the rinnegan and a great physical body. He was a freak of nature like Harashima and Madara. The difference is both Harashima and Madara are a byproduct of him.

It's probably assumed that when he gave the older son his "eyes" and the younger son his "body" it was metaphorically. The reason why he was able to defeat the Jubi was because he could use any technique, any element and both yin/yang. The sage didn't belong to any clans because clans are ninja family which didn't exist back then because ninjutsu was something taught by the Rikudou Sennin

This just sounds as the raw folklore told in the manga.

 

[NarutoSamaKama]

Good theory