Obito/Masked Man Misunderstanding

[~Sovereign~]

I know this topic was talked about ALOT before the big obito reveal but I was reading old chapters and came up with this, idk if this have been discussed recently but ive been thinking about this, so here we go.

The purpose of this thread is to explain that obito being the masked man was a kind of last second thing and to point out the plot holes to prove it. So again, im not saying obito isn't the masked man, im saying obito wasn't the original choice.

BTW, I personally think kagami uchiha was the original choice of the masked man.

Here we see the mask man tells sasuke he's an uchiha and shows sasuke part of his face/eye:

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I know that picture looks like obito now that we know who it is but my point is why is sasuke OK with him clearly lying to him about his identity??

Now here we see the mask man picking his mask up from when he falls from amaterasu, and im pretty sure sasuke can see his face here:

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This is where I started thinking that obito being the masked man was a last second thing and I also think this is around the time kishimoto came up with the idea to make obito the masked man:

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Here, after the masked man tells sasuke he's an uchiha, he tells sasuke he's madara uchiha when sasuke clearly just saw his face and EVERYONE knows what madara looks like. So again my point is, why didnt sasuke call him a lier since he saw his face and knows that's not the face of madara?? It's because kishimoto changed the identity of the masked man so kishimoto created a minor plot hole by making sasuke kinda ignore what he just said. As you can sasuke just gets frustrated and just says "go away and never come near me again" instead of saying "you aren't madara uchiha". So yeah, I think this conversation between the masked man and sasuke was when kishimoto decided to make the masked man obito.

Now, THIS is the most confusing part of obito becoming the masked man:

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This part is really confusing because we all know kisame really saw the masked man face TWICE, and the biggest thing that people always forget about kisame, is that kisame saw his face YEARS apart. Kisame saw madara when he first turned evil and then saw his face again basically right before dying, that's a big time difference (10/11 years AT LEAST). And based on kisame and the masked man conversation, its the same exact man which is madara uchiha because kisame saw his face. But the thing that gets me is that the masked man just took his mask off and kisame recognized him from 10+ years ago as mizukage/madara but the masked man was revealed as obito and madara really dead, this is a massive plot hole.

This is kisame meeting "madara"

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I think this is the real madara since we know madara lived long. How can kisame recognize the masked man (obito) as the same old person who was controlling the mizukage???

The "madara" that kisame met years ago was OLD already while obito was still young around that time.

So this is what I think so far. Hopefully kishimoto will explain this situation a little bit more soon, especially since obito and kakashi just stabbed each other in the lastest chapter.

What do you think?

 

[Unbiased King]

I don't think they knew what Madara actually looked like.

 

[Bogard]

Nice effort, but don't get your hopes high. There are rare cases where Kishi even tries to explain stuffs he makes and even when he explains them, it makes no sense at all, so i don't think Kishi even intents to explain small details like this(if he even remember them, that's it). He doesn't care anymore about this manga

 

[~Puppet Master~]

I think the reason that Sasuke wasn't surprised, is that Madara should've been 90+ years old if he were still alive, so his appearance would not resemble himself at all.

Kisame probably didn't know what the real Madara looked like, even after seeing his face he was denying it. So he saw Obito's face and was convinced that it was Madara. Originally, Madara and Tobi were supposed to be different people ( for Kisame, that is ) so he thought he was Madara because he looked like the man back in the hidden Mist.

 

[~Sovereign~]

I don't think they knew what Madara actually looked like.

I think everyone knows what madara looks like

madara even has his own statue

 

[Narutohokage7]

I don't think they knew what Madara actually looked like.

This, seeing an injured f*cked up face with the sharingan could convince someone they are Uchiha Madara.

 

[The Necromancer]

My whole thing with that, is that Kisame clearly knows madara is supposed to be dead, but then once he sees obito's face, he then thinks obito is madara? Why? He is a young man with half of his face deformed, why is that enough evidence for kisame to believe obito is in fact, madara?

 

[Kαmi]

Well you are right on about the Sasuke part. Kishi kinda cheated since he had Sasuke pretty much ignore the blatant lie but there are two possibilities we can infer from there

1. Either Sasuke assumed "Madara" appearance had somehow change after being alive for so long
2. Or Sasuke simply just didn't care since he doesn't seem like he cares about much more than anything that doesn't involve, revenge or Itachi at that time.

About Kisame. Kisame was aware that Obito was not Madara but he called him Madara because he realized that's the alias Obito have himself. Plus, he had nothing else to call him by before then so he just called him Madara. At least that's what I think, I think after seeing his face twice he knew Obito was not Madara but referred to him that way anyway.

 

[~Sovereign~]

Nice effort, but don't get your hopes high. There are rare cases where Kishi even tries to explain stuffs he makes and even when he explains them, it makes no sense at all, so i don't think Kishi even intents to explain small details like this(if he even remember them, that's it). He doesn't care anymore about this manga

he should lol that first obito didn't covered any plot holes lol, the only thing we got from that was that madara lived long and really met kid obito

I think the reason that Sasuke wasn't surprised, is that Madara should've been 90+ years old if he were still alive, so his appearance would not resemble himself at all.

Kisame probably didn't know what the real Madara looked like, even after seeing his face he was denying it. So he saw Obito's face and was convinced that it was Madara. Originally, Madara and Tobi were supposed to be different people ( for Kisame, that is ) so he thought he was Madara because he looked like the man back in the hidden Mist.

that still doesn't change the fact that sasuke didn't even question him. If I told you I was jesus just inside a new body, wouldn't you even attempt to question me or look at me funny or SOMETHING??

why would kisame ask to see him face if he didn't know what madara looked like?

and I think everyone know what madara looks like

 

[-immortal-]

mm...yeah..Obito let his Hair Grow

 

[TH3 PERVY SAGE]

Hmmm I see....

 

[AlphaScythian]

sasuke didnt see whole face. madara stepped back into shadows then the mask dropped on the floor.
kisame was convinced by the power to control kage perfect jinchuriki and sharingan.
Just cuz appearance changed, it meant nothing over these years.
Why did a world believe obito was madara? He had power and knowledge of madara!!!

 

[Skywardsword]

I knew it was Obito Bcause of his hair...

 

[~Puppet Master~]

he should lol that first obito didn't covered any plot holes lol, the only thing we got from that was that madara lived long and really met kid obito



that still doesn't change the fact that sasuke didn't even question him. If I told you I was jesus just inside a new body, wouldn't you even attempt to question me or look at me funny or SOMETHING??

why would kisame ask to see him face if he didn't know what madara looked like?

and I think everyone know what madara looks like

If I were Sasuke, I wouldn't really care about Madara if the man just told me the truth about my worst enemy who turns out to be a loving brother. Besides, like I said, Madara would've been so old, Obito's scratched face really fits with that. Plus Obito could've used a genjutsu to disguise his face, there are so many ways to fill this plothole that I think everything is just fine.

And I don't think everyone knew what Madara looked like, after all they didn't have Google images to look him up.

But the main reason I disagree with you is that Kishi made Kakashi Gaiden at the end of Part I and I'm convinced that from that moment on, it was already decided that Tobi was going to be Obito.

 

[~Sovereign~]

My whole thing with that, is that Kisame clearly knows madara is supposed to be dead, but then once he sees obito's face, he then thinks obito is madara? Why? He is a young man with half of his face deformed, why is that enough evidence for kisame to believe obito is in fact, madara?

uy
exactly

but I think you forgot that kisame probably met the read madara (remember madara lived long enough to meet kid obito)

the big question is, how did kisame look at an old guy (madara 10 years ago) and current obito and think that its the same person??? THATS the plot hole

This, seeing an injured f*cked up face with the sharingan could convince someone they are Uchiha Madara.

so if someone has sharingan and scars on their face, that can be anyone they want to be??

sasuke didn't even attempt to question him about that statement

Well you are right on about the Sasuke part. Kishi kinda cheated since he had Sasuke pretty much ignore the blatant lie but there are two possibilities we can infer from there

1. Either Sasuke assumed "Madara" appearance had somehow change after being alive for so long
2. Or Sasuke simply just didn't care since he doesn't seem like he cares about much more than anything that doesn't involve, revenge or Itachi at that time.

About Kisame. Kisame was aware that Obito was not Madara but he called him Madara because he realized that's the alias Obito have himself. Plus, he had nothing else to call him by before then so he just called him Madara. At least that's what I think, I think after seeing his face twice he knew Obito was not Madara but referred to him that way anyway.

That's the problem, sasuke didn't question him, he just believed it and teamed up with him too

sorry but that makes no senese, kisame call him mizukage then said rather madara, which means its the same guy from 10+ years ago

that's the plot hole from kishi

 

[Kαmi]

so if someone has sharingan and scars on their face, that can be anyone they want to

sorry but that makes no senese, kisame call him mizukage then said rather madara, which means its the same guy from 10+ years ago

that's the plot hole from kishi

That makes plenty of sense to me. Kisame identified the man with scars he met as "Madara". 10+ years he sees a man with scars again and identifies him again as "Madara", the same "Madara" who controlled the mizukage. I don't see why this is a plothole :erm:

 

[The Necromancer]

That makes plenty of sense to me. Kisame identified the man with scars he met as "Madara". 10+ years he sees a man with scars again and identifies him again as "Madara", the same "Madara" who controlled the mizukage. I don't see why this is a plothole :erm:

If he was willing to believe that any man behind the mask was madara, then why question him at all? He saw his abilities, knew he called himself madara, and yet asked for proof in the form of seeing his face, but when he sees his face, the face of a man in his 30's with scars, he believes him to be madara. That makes no sense.

 

[~Sovereign~]

If I were Sasuke, I wouldn't really care about Madara if the man just told me the truth about my worst enemy who turns out to be a loving brother. Besides, like I said, Madara would've been so old, Obito's scratched face really fits with that. Plus Obito could've used a genjutsu to disguise his face, there are so many ways to fill this plothole that I think everything is just fine.

And I don't think everyone knew what Madara looked like, after all they didn't have Google images to look him up.

But the main reason I disagree with you is that Kishi made Kakashi Gaiden at the end of Part I and I'm convinced that from that moment on, it was already decided that Tobi was going to be Obito.

sasuke team up with a guy because he "claimed" to be madara

genjutsu? sasuke wasn't in genjutsu, obito had just got attacked by amaterasu for trying to use sharingan on sasuke, and you think he will try to show sasuke his sharingan AGAIN???

first of all madara was a criminal, every village had a book full of all criminals, remember how every village wants to kill oro?? how do you think everyone know what Orochimaru looks like??

kakashi gaiden is part of kakashi/minato development, simple as that

I knew it was Obito Bcause of his hair...

hairstyles can change but yea a lot of people guessed it was obito

sasuke didnt see whole face. madara stepped back into shadows then the mask dropped on the floor.
kisame was convinced by the power to control kage perfect jinchuriki and sharingan.
Just cuz appearance changed, it meant nothing over these years.
Why did a world believe obito was madara? He had power and knowledge of madara!!!

Sasuke did see his face, WE (the readers) didn't see his face, that was the purpose of the darkness around the masked man. After he stood back up from the amaterasu attack, sasuke could clearly see him.

what? kisame 100% saw him face TWICE...

appearance can change but answer me this, how did obito change from old (when he met kisame) back to young (currently talking to kisame)?? kisame clearly met an old guy in the past and obito was young

mm...yeah..Obito let his Hair Grow

obito was too young to met kisame when he first turned evil, obito was still a kid then

its literally impossible for kisame to recognize obito and the guy from 10+ years ago as the same guy

That makes plenty of sense to me. Kisame identified the man with scars he met as "Madara". 10+ years he sees a man with scars again and identifies him again as "Madara", the same "Madara" who controlled the mizukage. I don't see why this is a plothole :erm:

smh lol the plot hole isn't that kisame call him by the same name

the plot hole is that its physically impossible for kisame to have met the same guy in the past AGAIN

1. the guy in the past was OLD and obito is YOUNG

2. the guy from the past probably is the real madara since we know madara lived for a long time but the problem is that obito was a little boy when kisame first met "madara".

THATS the plot hole

If he was willing to believe that any man behind the mask was madara, then why question him at all? He saw his abilities, knew he called himself madara, and yet asked for proof in the form of seeing his face, but when he sees his face, the fact of a man in his 30's with scars, he believes him to be madara. That makes no sense.

exactly

if the face is clearly a lie, the words are more than likely a lie too

 

[Kαmi]

If he was willing to believe that any man behind the mask was madara, then why question him at all? He saw his abilities, knew he called himself madara, and yet asked for proof in the form of seeing his face, but when he sees his face, the face of a man in his 30's with scars, he believes him to be madara. That makes no sense.

I'm not saying Kisame thought Obito was really Madara. If anything, it seems to me that it is clear that Kisame knew Obito was not really Madara. But Obito said he was Madara so Kisame just simply referred to him as Madara since that's the alias he took on, he didn't ave anything else to call Obito. Later when Tobi reveals himself again to Kisame, Kisame identifies him as Mizukage-sama because the Tobi there and the "Madara" 10+ years ago are same people, he recognizes the scars. Kisame then says "Or Rather Madara-San" because he knew that's what He calle himself to everyone else and decided to continue to play on. At least that's what I was getting from the whole thing.

 

[~Puppet Master~]

sasuke team up with a guy because he "claimed" to be madara

genjutsu? sasuke wasn't in genjutsu, obito had just got attacked by amaterasu for trying to use sharingan on sasuke, and you think he will try to show sasuke his sharingan AGAIN???

first of all madara was a criminal, every village had a book full of all criminals, remember how every village wants to kill oro?? how do you think everyone know what Orochimaru looks like??

kakashi gaiden is part of kakashi/minato development, simple as that

Sasuke never really considered him an ally, he even said so himself.

I was actually talking about Kisame being in a genjutsu, in both cases.

Madara was supposed to have died at the valley of the end, which was around 30/40 years before the series, meaning he wouldn't appear in any bingo book. And he would still look much older than he did when he was young.