(A.K.E)Kakuzu's Counter Against Yata/Totsuka/Susano'o

DrProof

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The Advanced Kakuzu Exploiters is a group of the most intelligent Kakuzu informed members on NB, we constructively discuss his abilities, and find exploits or extra advantages in the arsenal he possesses. We are a fairly new group, and we are currently looking for other members to join (send me a VM/PM if you wish to join; well take it from there, please refrain from commenting on this thread about joining).

These are the few exploits we've found so far:


Counter To Yata No Kagami; By DrProof

Counter to Yata no Kagami

The so called "invincible" Yata Mirror actually is able to be countered by The Monster in which is Kakuzu. Now this is all relying on the fact that Yata Mirror is singular (meaning it counters one attack at a time):

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Pay attention to the highlighted words "Attack" & "The Attack". Both are singular meanings of the word attack meaning one assault. With that in mind, I'm sure you guys can decipher the further meaning of that. Anyhow let me move on to the big stuff.. Since Yata Mirror can only nullify one attack at a time Kakuzu is indeed at favor here, and here is why.

You see the shield only counters one technique at a time correct, as it is a singular mirror (meaning counters one jutsu at a time). So what if Kakuzu fired two elemental techniques? Remember Kakuzu is able to integrate his mask into one entity (two masks into one).

You must be registered for see images


So an example is this, Kakuzu fires a Raiton: Gian (Lightning) at Yata mirror, and not a second later (basically at the same time) fires a Katon: Zukokku. Remember this is nothing short of plausible due to the fact that Kakuzu was said to have perfectly mastered each of his elemental affinities (Lightning, Wind, and Katon):

You must be registered for see images


Let me explain this tactic.

The Yata mirror is said to counter, and nullify the incoming attack (singular) so if Kakuzu used Lightning, the yata mirror would change its properties into Wind (Lightning is weak against Wind), but if Kakuzu simultaneously fired a Katon so that it would hit the Yata mirror after the Yata mirror nullified The Lightning assault by changing into a Wind nature, Kakuzu's Katon would completely destroy the mirror and/or cause it to not deploy its nullifying effect as Katon > Wind.

Fire (火, Hi) natured chakra allows for Fire Release (火遁, Katon), which is strong against Wind but weak against Water.
Wind (風, Kaze) natured chakra allows for Wind Release (風遁, Fūton), which is strong against Lightning but weak against Fire.
Lightning (雷, Kaminari) natured chakra allows for Lightning Release (雷遁, Raiton), which is strong against Earth but weak against Wind.
Earth (土, Tsuchi) natured chakra allows for Earth Release (土遁, Doton), which is strong against Water but weak against Lightning.
Water (水, Mizu) natured chakra allows for Water Release (水遁, Suiton), which is strong against Fire but weak against Earth.

Counter to Totsuka Blade; By AkatsukiChurch

Counter to Totsuka Blade

Alright, to start off I would like to say that the statement ''Totsuka can pierce everything'' is INCORRECT..

Why? It's simple.

You must be registered for see images


There are two sentences I would like to point out.

– Liquid spilling from it's gourd bottle turns into the Kusanagi Blade.

- The Ten – Handed sword that can cut down any enemy.

Why exactly did I want to point out these two sentences?

I'll start with the second one, first. As you can see it clearly says 'It can cut down ANY ENEMY'. Yes, any enemy, NOT ANY JUTSU. What I would like to say with this is that Totsuka may be able to cut down or pierce any enemy, it fails to pierce defensive – like jutsu. In other words, it cannot pierce the Susano'o or Kakuzu's Domu and some other powerful defensive Ninjutsu.

Now, for the second sentence I pointed out. Like it says, the Totsuka is a variant of the Kusanagi Blade.

The Kusanagi Sword is the Kusanagi of Japanese legend. Orochimaru retrieves his Kusanagi by opening his mouth and extending a snake which then opens its mouth and produces the sword. Orochimaru was seen producing the sword handle first so he could use it freely, or blade first to attack his opponent instantly.

The sword can quickly extend and retract its blade to attack from long distances, be controlled telekinetically according to Orochimaru's command, and cut through almost anything.

''Cut throught almost anything.''

Totsuka is a variant of the Kusanagi Blade and we all know that the Kusanagi Blade was unable to pierce Naruto's V2 Cloak. This implies that Totsuka can't pierce everything as well.

You must be registered for see images


There is one more thing to add. I dare say that despite being an ethereal weapon, Totsuka changes into a 'Physical one' once it attacks.

Why?

In Itachi's short fight against Orochimaru when he attacked Orochimaru's snakes with the Totsuka, it cutted off their heads and blood came out, meaning that it has contact with the 'Physical world'.

If it truly remained an etheral weapon even when it attacks, the Blade would cut the souls of the target just like Reaper Death Seal and not their physical body.

You must be registered for see images


With all of this said, I dare to say that Totsuka cannot pierce a defensive jutsu such as Doton: Domu or Susano'o.

You must be registered for see images


Zetsu states The Totsuka Blade has "no real physical form" meaning it's physical properties (shape, size, etc.) are not known or existent. However, that doesn't mean that The Totsuka Blade cannot become a physical entity (the very thought of it piercing, and emitting blood from its enemies is a sure sign of physical presence). Thus Zetsu here basically states The Totsuka Blade can become a physical entity, but does not retain a physical form (shape, size, etc.).

Counter to Susano'o; By DrProof

Counter to Susano'o

Kakuzu is able to counter Susano'o in many ways as his arsenal is moreover perfect for exploiting the true meaning of which Itachi himself has given:

You must be registered for see images


The first way in which Kakuzu is able to defeat Susano'o is by using the well known "pull the user from under Susano'o". Now Kakuzu can do this numerous of ways, or he can combine a tactic of two techniques to successfully disable Susano'os use within his battle. Here it was seen Gaara processed/implemented the underground maneuver to pull Madara out of his Susano'o:

You must be registered for see images


The combined force of Jiongu's detachment capabilities (making body parts go underground, then resurface):

You must be registered for see images


And Kakuzu's Katon mask's ability: Zukokku:

You must be registered for see images


The Susano'o user's foot-holding would be burned to nothing in which their underside would be non-existent, in which would leave an opening for Jiongu's capabilities to take a hold of the Susano'o user, and possibly bind their movement restricting them from movement. Within this happening the deployed arm would take a hold of the Susano'o users leg(s), and pull them from under or directly out of Susano'o.

Footing:
1. Stability of feet: a stable secure position for or placement of the feet when standing or walking
2. Base for progress: a foundation or basis for further advancement or development
3. Status: the status or condition of something, often in relation to something else
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The second way in which Kakuzu can completely counter, and defeat Susano'o is through Elemental Ninjutsu, with the addition that Susano'o is going through transformation. Why exactly do I say Elemental Ninjutsu + Susano'o going through transformation stages would enable Kakuzu to secure a scenario of defeating a Susano'o user is because.. Danzo. Danzo's direct analysis within his fight against Sasuke gave away that exposed parts on Susano'o can be used to triumph:

You must be registered for see images


And another shot of the gap formerly shown in Susano'o is within Itachi's as well:

You must be registered for see images


With that being said/shown I'll move on to the Elemental Ninjutsu part. Kakuzu has the most elemental affinities within the Manga as to date, and he was said to be quite proficient in the use of his 4 elements, in which he is able to combine the natures together to form a power triple affinity attack:

You must be registered for see images


So with a combined force (singular attack), or multiple assaults with different elements. Some may argue that any Susano'o user would protect their exposed spinal cord (the gap) when going through the transformation stages, and that is true. However, with the capabilities of Kakuzu's mask able to go aerial, and the fact that the Susano'o user would have to fend against 3 aerial masks, and Kakuzu himself one could only concur that the Susano'o user would succumb to the multiple attacks, and have their gap penetrated:

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Susano'o stands no chance in the presence of a true monster such as Kakuzu..
 

Obito3631

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amaterasu gg
genjutsu gg
itachi solos low diff
 

DrProof

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amaterasu gg
genjutsu gg
itachi solos low diff

Dude. This isn't a VS thread. Learn to read, or get out. I've reported your comment as spam. Intelligence on NB has faltered greatly.
 

Obito3631

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Dude. This isn't a VS thread. Learn to read, or get out. I've reported your comment as spam. Intelligence on NB has faltered greatly.

Dude. I was merely imitating Itachi's fanboys, calm down, lmao.
 

Owarij

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Attack = aggressive action,

"Attributes" was also used, which as you know, is plural


Three simultaneous ninjutsu moves is still an attack on the shield, and the attack has several attributes, which would all be cancelled out by the shield's mystical power
 

DrProof

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Dude. I was merely imitating Itachi's fanboys, calm down, lmao.

My apologies then. I have lost hope in intelligence in NB so this is what I usually see regarding Itachi fanboys. I apologize once again if you weren't being serious.

Attack = aggressive action,

"Attributes" was also used, which as you know, is plural


Three simultaneous ninjutsu moves is still an attack on the shield, and the attack has several attributes, which would all be cancelled out by the shield's mystical power

Very true. Although explain to me once Yata Mirror changes to per say a Wind Nature to counter Kakuzu's Raiton assault. How exactly does the Yata Mirror counter the second assault in which would be Katon? The yata mirror was never stated to manifest two natures at a time. Or am I mistaken?
 
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Vexorian

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The Advanced Kakuzu Exploiters is a group of the most intelligent Kakuzu informed members on NB, we constructively discuss his abilities, and find exploits or extra advantages in the arsenal he possesses. We are a fairly new group, and we are currently looking for other members to join (send me a VM/PM if you wish to join; well take it from there, please refrain from commenting on this thread about joining).

These are the few exploits we've found so far:


Counter To Yata No Kagami; By DrProof

Counter to Yata no Kagami

The so called "invincible" Yata Mirror actually is able to be countered by The Monster in which is Kakuzu. Now this is all relying on the fact that Yata Mirror is singular (meaning it counters one attack at a time):

You must be registered for see images


Pay attention to the highlighted words "Attack" & "The Attack". Both are singular meanings of the word attack meaning one assault. With that in mind, I'm sure you guys can decipher the further meaning of that. Anyhow let me move on to the big stuff.. Since Yata Mirror can only nullify one attack at a time Kakuzu is indeed at favor here, and here is why.

You see the shield only counters one technique at a time correct, as it is a singular mirror (meaning counters one jutsu at a time). So what if Kakuzu fired two elemental techniques? Remember Kakuzu is able to integrate his mask into one entity (two masks into one).

You must be registered for see images


So an example is this, Kakuzu fires a Raiton: Gian (Lightning) at Yata mirror, and not a second later (basically at the same time) fires a Katon: Zukokku. Remember this is nothing short of plausible due to the fact that Kakuzu was said to have perfectly mastered each of his elemental affinities (Lightning, Wind, and Katon):

You must be registered for see images


Let me explain this tactic.

The Yata mirror is said to counter, and nullify the incoming attack (singular) so if Kakuzu used Lightning, the yata mirror would change its properties into Wind (Lightning is weak against Wind), but if Kakuzu simultaneously fired a Katon so that it would hit the Yata mirror after the Yata mirror nullified The Lightning assault by changing into a Wind nature, Kakuzu's Katon would completely destroy the mirror and/or cause it to not deploy its nullifying effect as Katon > Wind.


Counter to Totsuka Blade; By AkatsukiChurch

Counter to Totsuka Blade

Alright, to start off I would like to say that the statement ''Totsuka can pierce everything'' is INCORRECT..

Why? It's simple.

You must be registered for see images


There are two sentences I would like to point out.



Why exactly did I want to point out these two sentences?

I'll start with the second one, first. As you can see it clearly says 'It can cut down ANY ENEMY'. Yes, any enemy, NOT ANY JUTSU. What I would like to say with this is that Totsuka may be able to cut down or pierce any enemy, it fails to pierce defensive – like jutsu. In other words, it cannot pierce the Susano'o or Kakuzu's Domu and some other powerful defensive Ninjutsu.

Now, for the second sentence I pointed out. Like it says, the Totsuka is a variant of the Kusanagi Blade.



''Cut throught almost anything.''

Totsuka is a variant of the Kusanagi Blade and we all know that the Kusanagi Blade was unable to pierce Naruto's V2 Cloak. This implies that Totsuka can't pierce everything as well.

You must be registered for see images


There is one more thing to add. I dare say that despite being an ethereal weapon, Totsuka changes into a 'Physical one' once it attacks.

Why?

In Itachi's short fight against Orochimaru when he attacked Orochimaru's snakes with the Totsuka, it cutted off their heads and blood came out, meaning that it has contact with the 'Physical world'.

If it truly remained an etheral weapon even when it attacks, the Blade would cut the souls of the target just like Reaper Death Seal and not their physical body.

You must be registered for see images


With all of this said, I dare to say that Totsuka cannot pierce a defensive jutsu such as Doton: Domu or Susano'o.

You must be registered for see images


Zetsu states The Totsuka Blade has "no real physical form" meaning it's physical properties (shape, size, etc.) are not known or existent. However, that doesn't mean that The Totsuka Blade cannot become a physical entity (the very thought of it piercing, and emitting blood from its enemies is a sure sign of physical presence). Thus Zetsu here basically states The Totsuka Blade can become a physical entity, but does not retain a physical form (shape, size, etc.).

Counter to Susano'o; By DrProof

Counter to Susano'o

Kakuzu is able to counter Susano'o in many ways as his arsenal is moreover perfect for exploiting the true meaning of which Itachi himself has given:

You must be registered for see images


The first way in which Kakuzu is able to defeat Susano'o is by using the well known "pull the user from under Susano'o". Now Kakuzu can do this numerous of ways, or he can combine a tactic of two techniques to successfully disable Susano'os use within his battle. Here it was seen Gaara processed/implemented the underground maneuver to pull Madara out of his Susano'o:

You must be registered for see images


The combined force of Jiongu's detachment capabilities (making body parts go underground, then resurface):

You must be registered for see images


And Kakuzu's Katon mask's ability: Zukokku:

You must be registered for see images


The Susano'o user's foot-holding would be burned to nothing in which their underside would be non-existent, in which would leave an opening for Jiongu's capabilities to take a hold of the Susano'o user, and possibly bind their movement restricting them from movement. Within this happening the deployed arm would take a hold of the Susano'o users leg(s), and pull them from under or directly out of Susano'o.


You must be registered for see images



The second way in which Kakuzu can completely counter, and defeat Susano'o is through Elemental Ninjutsu, with the addition that Susano'o is going through transformation. Why exactly do I say Elemental Ninjutsu + Susano'o going through transformation stages would enable Kakuzu to secure a scenario of defeating a Susano'o user is because.. Danzo. Danzo's direct analysis within his fight against Sasuke gave away that exposed parts on Susano'o can be used to triumph:

You must be registered for see images


And another shot of the gap formerly shown in Susano'o is within Itachi's as well:

You must be registered for see images


With that being said/shown I'll move on to the Elemental Ninjutsu part. Kakuzu has the most elemental affinities within the Manga as to date, and he was said to be quite proficient in the use of his 4 elements, in which he is able to combine the natures together to form a power triple affinity attack:

You must be registered for see images


So with a combined force (singular attack), or multiple assaults with different elements. Some may argue that any Susano'o user would protect their exposed spinal cord (the gap) when going through the transformation stages, and that is true. However, with the capabilities of Kakuzu's mask able to go aerial, and the fact that the Susano'o user would have to fend against 3 aerial masks, and Kakuzu himself one could only concur that the Susano'o user would succumb to the multiple attacks, and have their gap penetrated:

You must be registered for see images


Susano'o stands no chance in the presence of a true monster such as Kakuzu..

I'd have to agree with everything there. But as Owarji said, it's possible you're wrong on the Yata Mirror. All the points were what I would bring to the table though. Good job.
 

DrProof

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I'd have to agree with everything there. But as Owarji said, it's possible you're wrong on the Yata Mirror. All the points were what I would bring to the table though. Good job.

Thanks my man. The Yata Mirror theory still has a bit of kinks in it, something we A.K.E members will discuss soon. Hearing Owarij's thoughts on this and other members in general helps us learn a bit more.
 

Da Best Ever

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DrProof that was perfect but u knw full well that few would accept what u just did , few people would agree that kakuzu can beat a susano user by ther counters u just listed but I think those counters are legit and kakuzu lost to kakashi, shikamaru, naruto, Ino , choji and had it just been a 1 vs 1 fight kakuzu can beat almost anyone because he can split his natures into those 4 creatures and that would make it 5 vs 1 and even against some like itachi who would be forced to use susano or Amaterasu to keep up wont have the time because of the nature creatures...but like I said I have a hard time believing that people would accept this but who cares if they do
 

Lilt

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No, it wasn't perfect. It's a good effort, but still, it's flawed.

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OWanime

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when totsuka stabs it is ethereal because it sucks the soul however when it slices like across it's physical xd I like it overall but they are some parts that I don't like such as relating it to oro's sword because even oro admitted that the sword was much stronger than his (which is why he was looking for it)

I think itachi would still win in a battle against kakazu by using genjutsu on him or some smart plan like waiting to be surrounded by the four masks and using his susanoo arms to grab each one and then smooshing them like sasuke did to danzo and then it'll be even xd
 

DrProof

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DrProof that was perfect but u knw full well that few would accept what u just did , few people would agree that kakuzu can beat a susano user by ther counters u just listed but I think those counters are legit and kakuzu lost to kakashi, shikamaru, naruto, Ino , choji and had it just been a 1 vs 1 fight kakuzu can beat almost anyone because he can split his natures into those 4 creatures and that would make it 5 vs 1 and even against some like itachi who would be forced to use susano or Amaterasu to keep up wont have the time because of the nature creatures...but like I said I have a hard time believing that people would accept this but who cares if they do

If they wish not to accept logic. A.K.E will fight on with logic, until they accept that our logic is reality.
 

Da Best Ever

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when totsuka stabs it is ethereal because it sucks the soul however when it slices like across it's physical xd I like it overall but they are some parts that I don't like such as relating it to oro's sword because even oro admitted that the sword was much stronger than his (which is why he was looking for it)

I think itachi would still win in a battle against kakazu by using genjutsu on him or some smart plan like waiting to be surrounded by the four masks and using his susanoo arms to grab each one and then smooshing them like sasuke did to danzo and then it'll be even xd

I'm sure those nature creatures act on their own as they were fighting doing techs in their own free will and I think being put under tsukoyami won't last long because the creatures would break him free of it
 

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I agree with everything but the center most part. The Totsuka blade seems to be a fairly swift and dangerous blade. And, Itachi would not only try to pierce Kakuzu with it but he has shown how deadly it is when he slices and dices. Taking off the Yamata No Orochi heads like they were nothing. Pretty impressive.

And, the comparing of Domu to a complete Susano'o should not be present. It's quite obvious that a Complete Susano'o is the better defense; When it comes to not being able to give in.

The second point seemed lacking and. . Unrefined. While I am not saying the Totsuka Blade can pierce or chop a Domu-shielded Kakuzu for certain; Points such as "ANY enemy NOT ANY Jutsu". It was a fairly weak point.

It's like saying that the Totsuka Blade couldn't seal Killer Bee or Ay in their respective lV2 and Lightning armors just because they have it covering them.

Everything else was rather well done, and the counter to the Yata Mirror is something I have thought of for a while, Kakuzu could break through it. Though, it could take more then two hearts/elements to do it. A new combination might have to be made. We can't be uncertain if the Yata Mirror could "morph" into a substance as Ice Release to counter whatever the opposite elemental combination to Ice Release is.

But he can counter the Yata Mirror, nonetheless.

Edit: On an off topic, why was the AkatsukiChurch banned?
 
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Lilt

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Similarly, the argument differentiating enemy from jutsu can be dismantled as well, because an enemy entails their defensive techniques. I wouldn't say I could defeat any boxer without taking into account their boxing techniques, and I wouldn't say I could rob any bank without taking into account bank security. It just doesn't follow. Similarly, if you take the statement pointblank, then it implies that it can cut down the Juubi, who is presumably much more durable than KN4, and likely more durable than just about anything else. Really, the author setup those legendary items to be invincible, and the only logical thing people can do is ignore it.
 

DrProof

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No, it wasn't perfect. It's a good effort, but still, it's flawed.

You must be registered for see images

Do not disregard our own interpretation of Totsuka:

The liquid spilling from the gourd turns into the Kusanagi Blade.

Kusanagi couldn't pierce through a Kyuubi chakra cloak.

Yata Mirror hasn't been shown nor said to manipulate two natures at a time. So the Kakuzu counter is still into play.


when totsuka stabs it is ethereal because it sucks the soul however when it slices like across it's physical xd I like it overall but they are some parts that I don't like such as relating it to oro's sword because even oro admitted that the sword was much stronger than his (which is why he was looking for it)

I think itachi would still win in a battle against kakazu by using genjutsu on him or some smart plan like waiting to be surrounded by the four masks and using his susanoo arms to grab each one and then smooshing them like sasuke did to danzo and then it'll be even xd

Totsuka turns into Kusanagi. The DB clearly states that. So they are naturally the same in piercing prowess.

awesome thread and good logical points

+ REP

Thanks my man.
 
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