KCM Naruto VS EMS Sasuke

[Madara ibn Lahad]

Maybe just maybe naruto...but this is Naruto we are talking about,where kishi loves the Uchiha...but other than that good thread...

 

[Strict]

I said the arms can

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and grab him from there, not through the susanoo. There's nothing covering the ground beneath him. If he gets grab by a chakra arm he can be crushed just like the rock during his training.

That goes for this form of Naruto; the Jinchuriki that were controlled by Obito also displayed this attack from the underground with only this mode. This mode may has feats other forms with Bijuu Chakra don't have. Plus, a user of Susanoo can move within it freely, go up and stay in the middle. The best example would be Madara, who was staying in the middle of Susanoo's body, which however was standing on its feet.

I think that EMS Sasuke has the upper hand here with Susanoo, Enton and Kirin. The Enton grants Sasuke countless possibilities to use Amaterasu, whether as a sword, as an area covering flame or spammable Magatama's burning several targets. Without a strong TBB as known from a full Bijuu, Naruto has no way of breaking the defense of Susanoo and if it's covered with Amaterasu, any physical contact whether from the original or the clones ends in their defeat. Offensively, Susanoo can wipe the clones out with both Amaterasu Magatama's and brute force. Naruto even by himself rarely showed skilled usage of his Shunshin no Jutsu in actual fights (for example against Nagato, Obito and his Jinchuriki's) though he still has that feat, at least his clones never showed to act like this and don't seem to share Naruto's speed feats. The EMS seemingly prevents the user from loosing Chakra and with that amount of Amaterasu, it's free for Sasuke to use mountain busting Kirin, too.

 

[Midday]

That goes for this form of Naruto; the Jinchuriki that were controlled by Obito also displayed this attack from the underground with only this mode. This mode may has feats other forms with Bijuu Chakra don't have. Plus, a user of Susanoo can move within it freely, go up and stay in the middle. The best example would be Madara, who was staying in the middle of Susanoo's body, which however was standing on its feet.

I think that EMS Sasuke has the upper hand here with Susanoo, Enton and Kirin. The Enton grants Sasuke countless possibilities to use Amaterasu, whether as a sword, as an area covering flame or spammable Magatama's burning several targets. Without a strong TBB as known from a full Bijuu, Naruto has no way of breaking the defense of Susanoo and if it's covered with Amaterasu, any physical contact whether from the original or the clones ends in their defeat. Offensively, Susanoo can wipe the clones out with both Amaterasu Magatama's and brute force. Naruto even by himself rarely showed skilled usage of his Shunshin no Jutsu in actual fights (for example against Nagato, Obito and his Jinchuriki's) though he still has that feat, at least his clones never showed to act like this and don't seem to share Naruto's speed feats. The EMS seemingly prevents the user from loosing Chakra and with that amount of Amaterasu, it's free for Sasuke to use mountain busting Kirin, too.

He can continue to pummel Susanoo with 13+ guided rasenshurikens or tbb rasengans which would most likely damage it.

Also did you read this latest chapter, the size of his rasenshuriken was boss summon size. Here's a basic rasenshuriken,

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. Scaling that up you think it wont be enough for Susanoo.

Naruto's clones are all equal to the original, except they're used a lot more recklessly as there's little loss in them being defeated. They can all avoid magatama's and susanoo's brute force, even sm Kabuto could avoid it and Naruto's significantly faster.

The feats for his speed is there, his usage is questionable like a lot of things. For example Madara sitting on his arse right now. Here's his clone using the body flicker speed,

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.

Kirin is no mountain buster, I also don't see it doing much either. Naruto's kcm cloak was able to withstand the Juubi's nuke or Naruto can just avoid it. Itachi had more than enough time to use Susanoo in the same time it took Sasuke to activate Kirin.

 

[Microsword57]

Sasuke Uchiha.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Didn't Naruto use Chakra Arms -through- the ground before?

That's right! He did it in the valley of the end in the anime. In fact, when fighting against Pain in 6 tails mode, he put his tails underground.

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In the anime version, we saw them go upwards elsewhere.

 

[Strict]

Spoiler

He can continue to pummel Susanoo with 13+ guided rasenshurikens or tbb rasengans which would most likely damage it.

Also did you read this latest chapter, the size of his rasenshuriken was boss summon size. Here's a basic rasenshuriken,

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. Scaling that up you think it wont be enough for Susanoo.

Naruto's clones are all equal to the original, except they're used a lot more recklessly as there's little loss in them being defeated. They can all avoid magatama's and susanoo's brute force, even sm Kabuto could avoid it and Naruto's significantly faster.

The feats for his speed is there, his usage is questionable like a lot of things. For example Madara sitting on his arse right now. Here's his clone using the body flicker speed,

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.

Kirin is no mountain buster, I also don't see it doing much either. Naruto's kcm cloak was able to withstand the Juubi's nuke or Naruto can just avoid it. Itachi had more than enough time to use Susanoo in the same time it took Sasuke to activate Kirin.

The Rasenshuriken affects the target more on a cellular level. If Kakuzu's body survived that, why shouldn't the final version of Susanoo grant enough protection from it after Itachi's Susanoo tanked Kirin without the Yata mirror? The Kirin's power exceeds the Rasenshuriken's by far and yes, it comes close to a mountain buster. The plate alone on which Sasuke was standing had a size that probably exceeds those of a Bijuu in height [

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] (referring to Sasuke's size compared to it) and yet, in view of the complete Uchiha hideout, this large sized plate almost disappears from your view. [

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] That whole hideout was blasted with one blow. Yet, Itachi's Susanoo grant him enough protection to survive it by only losing his coat. The the final, fully armored version of Susanoo may grant you a quite good protection.

Nonetheless you can't argue with the plot. Madara sitting down to wait for Hashirama was his own goal, however there wasn't a reason not to use his speed against the Jinchuriki and Obito. After all the fight against the Jinchuriki, who did go through all their stages - from V1 up to V2 and Bijuumode - took a long time and Naruto, despite being in KCM never made skillful use of his speed but instead let himself being caught off guard multiple times. The scan you show however is Naruto in his Bijuumode, a much stronger version of the KCM.

Given the fight against the Edo Jinchuriki, I don't see why the KCM clones wouldn't fall for Amaterasu, all Enton variants and Susanoo's blows. If Han manages to kick Naruto away, Sasuke could probably manage to hit him with Amaterasu and destroy all of his clones with one of Susanoo's blows.

Note, when Itachi was about to use Amaterasu, Naruto warned Bee from being one shotted by this technique. When Itachi came to the actual usage he directed to the Cerberus, Naruto, who was still standing at the same place and knowing Itachi is going to use Amaterasu, was surprised that he missed him. [

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]

 

[Midday]

The Rasenshuriken affects the target more on a cellular level. If Kakuzu's body survived that, why shouldn't the final version of Susanoo grant enough protection from it after Itachi's Susanoo tanked Kirin without the Yata mirror? The Kirin's power exceeds the Rasenshuriken's by far and yes, it comes close to a mountain buster. The plate alone on which Sasuke was standing had a size that probably exceeds those of a Bijuu in height [

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] (referring to Sasuke's size compared to it) and yet, in view of the complete Uchiha hideout, this large sized plate almost disappears from your view. [

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] That whole hideout was blasted with one blow. Yet, Itachi's Susanoo grant him enough protection to survive it by only losing his coat. The the final, fully armored version of Susanoo may grant you a quite good protection.

Rasenshuriken also slices which susanoo has taken damage from, I didn't say just one rasenshuriken would be enough I said if he was pummeled with them. I also said a tbb rasengan which damage would be around this size,

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. On top of that there's chou odama rasenshuriken which compressed is bigger than Sasuke's susanoo. His susanoo isn't tanking all of that.

Just because Kirin exceeded rasenshuriken does not make it a mountain buster. I think you're underestimating the size of a mountain, it destroyed the plateau they were on but that's not mountain sized.

Nonetheless you can't argue with the plot. Madara sitting down to wait for Hashirama was his own goal, however there wasn't a reason not to use his speed against the Jinchuriki and Obito. After all the fight against the Jinchuriki, who did go through all their stages - from V1 up to V2 and Bijuumode - took a long time and Naruto, despite being in KCM never made skillful use of his speed but instead let himself being caught off guard multiple times. The scan you show however is Naruto in his Bijuumode, a much stronger version of the KCM.

I personally believe Kishi is holding back Naruto when it comes to his body flicker, he's only been using it defensively. From his point of view, it's not very exceting having Naruto blitz everyone like he did Kisame that one time. Naruto being restricted is not exclusive to him it happens with many other characters like Obito for example who could have easily captured all the Jinchuuriki with Kaumi.

Given the fight against the Edo Jinchuriki, I don't see why the KCM clones wouldn't fall for Amaterasu, all Enton variants and Susanoo's blows. If Han manages to kick Naruto away, Sasuke could probably manage to hit him with Amaterasu and destroy all of his clones with one of Susanoo's blows.

Maybe because they can sense it in advance and have the speed to dodge it? Enton variants are a lot slower than amaterasu and were easily dodged by sm Kabuto's speed. The difference between Han and this situation is Naruto's not out numbered but doing the outnumbering, he was also he was in the middle of taking out Roshi's chakra receiver when he got hit. He was in no position to dodge.

Note, when Itachi was about to use Amaterasu, Naruto warned Bee from being one shotted by this technique. When Itachi came to the actual usage he directed to the Cerberus, Naruto, who was still standing at the same place and knowing Itachi is going to use Amaterasu, was surprised that he missed him. [

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]

Naruto being surprised at Itachi's amaterasu not hitting him isn't proof he can get hit nor does it imply it. It's obviously surprising because prior to that moment Itachi was under Kabuto's control and attacking him.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

lol! Naruto and Sasuke are tied in the poll. Guess that says something about how evenly matched they are!

 

[Murasame]

I'm a fan of Naruto and I'd like to think he'd win but unlike these Sasuke fanboys I'm not like that so for now I'll just vote neither until we get to see what they are both capable of.. plus they have to be equals or close in strength for their final match.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Sasuke low diff. KCM really has nothing on sasuke here. Chou FRS? Judjing by the time naruto spend to power it up is never gonna be thrown. Naruto will die in that jutsu minato called.

Base kcm speed is even less then of V1 A, naruto only dodged due to shunshin. He cant spam it whole fight.

Besides latest jutsu he has nothing to even hurt susanoo.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Sasuke low diff. KCM really has nothing on sasuke here. Chou FRS? Judjing by the time naruto spend to power it up is never gonna be thrown. Naruto will die in that jutsu minato called.

Base kcm speed is even less then of V1 A, naruto only dodged due to shunshin. He cant spam it whole fight.

Besides latest jutsu he has nothing to even hurt susanoo.

Gamakichi was in mid air. Unless free falls for giant toads are extremely slow, Naruto's massive FRS was formed very quickly.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Gamakichi was in mid air. Unless free falls for giant toads are extremely slow, Naruto's massive FRS was formed very quickly.

And by that time sasuke stormed through fodder juubis, Used "Chidori sword slash"? Then kagutsuchi swords to brake the wall and was waiting with his arrow in place for FRS to come up to the perfect location. Jutsu speed wise, naruto isnt ever gonna throw it.

 

[Young Vongola]

I give it to Sasuke. Any FRS bar Chou Oodama FRS can be blocked by Sasuke's lvl 4 EMS Susanoo with ease, adding an Enton shield to that makes it even easier to block.

Enton would nullify the massive FRS as we have seen in the latest chapter.

Enough Enton spam would bring about Thunder Clouds for Kirin, at that point its GG Naruto.

How would enton nullify the super FRS if it's coming at him? If he used enton on it, it would only make it more powerful while it's coming his way..

And about Kirin - if Naruto can tank the Jubi's tenpenchi while protecting thousands of other shinobi at the same time (they also tanked with v1 cloaks), I'm pretty sure if he focused on himself in bijuu mode, he could take Kirin no problem

 

[Murasame]

Sasuke low diff. KCM really has nothing on sasuke here. Chou FRS? Judjing by the time naruto spend to power it up is never gonna be thrown. Naruto will die in that jutsu minato called.

Base kcm speed is even less then of V1 A, naruto only dodged due to shunshin. He cant spam it whole fight.

Besides latest jutsu he has nothing to even hurt susanoo.

No it wasn't slower.. he kept up with him. Who says he can't spam it? Even if somehow Naruto can't destroy Susanoo who has the higher chakra reserves? Yeah Naruto. In fact Naruto has chakra arms he can make go underground and use to pull Sasuke out of Susanoo.

 

[KidGamer65]

What is with these ridiculous comments I've been reading? Naruto tank Kirin with his KCM cloak? Naruto dodge Kirin? TB Rasengan even scratching Susanoo? God.....

How would enton nullify the super FRS if it's coming at him? If he used enton on it, it would only make it more powerful while it's coming his way..

And about Kirin - if Naruto can tank the Jubi's tenpenchi while protecting thousands of other shinobi at the same time (they also tanked with v1 cloaks), I'm pretty sure if he focused on himself in bijuu mode, he could take Kirin no problem

Fire eats up the wind surrounding FRS and the Rasengan in the middle vanishes, just like it did in the last chapter, meaning there is no explosion, it is just pure flames. Seriously did you guys pay attention when Yamato explained the elements? Wind makes Fire stronger, not vice versa like you are implying.

First of all, this is KCM Naruto, not Bijuu Mode Naruto, second of all. Naruto is not tanking Kirin, no way in hell. The Juubi's tenpenchi is just a massive storm, Kirin is much more than just lightning. Kirin far surpasses the lightning that appeared during tenpenchi.

I don't see how enton shield is blocking a rasenshuriken, if anything it makes the problem worse. He's going to be blocking with flames which become even stronger as rasenshuriken explodes besides him.

I'd go with Naruto. Genjutsu isn't happening, his speed allows him to avoid amaterasu or any other attacks, he has the option to blitz and if Sasuke gets hit with that odama rasenshuriken he's going to have problems even with susanoo.

Did you people even read the latest chapter? FRS was consumed and made the Enton stronger, FRS didn't even explode on the Juubi. Fire consumes the Wind Shuriken while the Rasengan in the middle disappears.

No it wasn't slower.. he kept up with him. Who says he can't spam it? Even if somehow Naruto can't destroy Susanoo who has the higher chakra reserves? Yeah Naruto. In fact Naruto has chakra arms he can make go underground and use to pull Sasuke out of Susanoo.

I hope you have the scans that show KCM Naruto sending his chakra arms underground? Otherwise he can't do it.

 

[Young Vongola]

Fire eats up the wind surrounding FRS and the Rasengan in the middle vanishes, just like it did in the last chapter, meaning there is no explosion, it is just pure flames. Seriously did you guys pay attention when Yamato explained the elements? Wind makes Fire stronger, not vice versa like you are implying.

First of all, this is KCM Naruto, not Bijuu Mode Naruto, second of all. Naruto is not tanking Kirin, no way in hell. The Juubi's tenpenchi is just a massive storm, Kirin is much more than just lightning. Kirin far surpasses the lightning that appeared during tenpenchi.

I don't think you understand. Naruto throws the giant Rasenshuriken TOWARD Sasuke. So what if Sasuke uses enton to make it stronger (which I did state) it's still coming TOWARD him. And there is no way he could put out all the flames in a short amount of time because it's the size of a giant toad. He would burn himself.

And how is Kirin much more than lighting? I'm pretty sure that's all there was to it.

 

[KidGamer65]

I don't think you understand. Naruto throws the giant Rasenshuriken TOWARD Sasuke. Sasuke uses amaterasu to make it stronger, ok I get that, but it's still coming TOWARD Sasuke. And there is no way he could put out all the flames in a short amount of time because it's the size of a giant toad. He would burn himself.

And how is Kirin much more than lighting? I'm pretty sure that's all there was to it.

He can control the flames in any way possible, not to mention all he has to do to put out the flames is just focus on it via Sharingan, it doesn't matter how much there is. Or he can direct it away from himself as he can manipulate it in anyway. Not to mention Susanoo would tank it anyway, another guy said the same exact thing and I gave the same exact reply.

Can Lightning destroying a Mountain Sized Building? No, it can't. Kirin is far stronger than ordinary lightning.

 

[Murasame]

I hope you have the scans that show KCM Naruto sending his chakra arms underground? Otherwise he can't do it.

There is no scan atleast not that I know of while in his KCM Form but if he's done it with his other forms when he didn't have control of Kurama its safe to assume he can do it.

 

[xxSAGExx]

I say Naruto, one thing you forgot was the fact that Naruto fought in the war right after his intense training with Bee with no rest (as in sleeping to let his body recover). Naruto expressed he used alot of chakra when he tried transforming into Kurama and when he tried making the tbb yet he said he can't stop to rest. Then he splits his power evenly (thats how shadow clone jutsu works) amongst like 10+ clones to fight in all battles, then fought Itachi and Nagato with Bee then fought against the 6 Jinchuurikis. Now when a Shadow clone poofs Naruto gets their exhaustion (I think some and not all)along with their knowledge that the clone had so Naruto got all of his clones exhaustion added to his own making it even worst for him. Now remember this was Naruto using his own power, Naruto said the chakra he took from Kurama was sectioned off in a different location than Kurama and Bee said that was forever his. Then Kurama became Naruto's friend and gave him the chakra he had which took Naruto's exhaustion away.

Now when Tsunade heals someone she would make them rest their body to fully recover, Naruto never did this at all from what we seen in the anime or manga so 2-3 days of burning himself out and still fighting. After Kurama's power ran out and Kurama had to recharge, Naruto handed most of that power out to the shinobi alliance. Right now, Naruto was healed by Sakura and said Kurama has recharged but this still doesn't put him at full power really. My point is, Naruto hasn't fought at full power as of yet. Also Bee let him in the war for his hands on training so this was all Naruto training too.

For Susanoo, Chakra arms under the ground, pull Sasuke out and a rasen shuriken hits hm as he's out.

 

[phantomlord22]

Naruto is stronger I think