Cant Deny Manga.. MS sasuke>SM naruto

[Sennin of Logic]

Just like he wouldn't have looked at Itachi's eyes.

Spoiler

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Or Madara's eyes. Or Sasuke's eyes. Come up with a real argument.


First of all, you should have some common human decency to spoiler tag your images so they don't add unecessary length and mess to the page.

Second of all, Nagato could not have seen Itachi's eye bleeding to know he was about to use Amaterasu. He simply guessed.

You overall seem to be misinformed in regards to the discussion I'm having with the other poster, so I advise you to stay out of this one.

It's not letting me have spoiler tags. Why would you make a big deal out of this? If it's such a big deal, then tell me where it's located instead of whining like a crybaby.

Also, not looking into eyes is a good argument! Show me one panel where he was put into sharingan genjutsu other than from crows in part 2, then we'll talk. You might not like it, but it is a decent argument.


Nagato didn't need to see Itachi's eye bleeding.

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He said "this pressure" Not "His eye's bleeding." This means amaterasu can be sensed.

Goodnight, I'll continue with this discussion tomorrow.

 

[BlinkST]

It's not letting me have spoiler tags.

Then do it manually like everyone else.

Also, not looking into eyes is a good argument!

No. It's a joke argument. Because he does look into eyes.

He said "this pressure" Not "His eye's bleeding." This means amaterasu can be sensed.

He was not sensing Amaterasu. He was sensing Itachi's chakra, and assumed it was Amaterasu. The fact that he said this:

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Show that he was clueless. Him sensing Itachi's chakra does not mean he was sensing a Jutsu in proximity of Naruto.

 

[6ari8]

So zetsu and tobi vs ma, pa, 3 big frogs, info, hinata and OMFG KURAMA? U dont include the fight with danzo dont u? So raikage, gaara, temari, kankuro, shee, darui, mei, chojiro, onooki, samurais, danzo, sakura, kakashi and then naruto. A list of ppl that attacked sasuke on that day.

It's funny how you include the toads and Kurama (which are Naruto's power, Hinata didn't do anything), yet you didn't include Suigetsu, Jugo, and Karin when they are not Sasuke's power, and they helped him immensely.

Shee, Kankuro, and Temari didn't do anything. Samurais are fodders. Darui was fighting Suigetsu, not Sasuke. Sasuke got his ass kicked against the raikage and when Gaara, Kankuro, and Temari arrived, he escaped right away. I didn't include Danzo because he shouldn't be as Sasuke was restored to 100% before fighting him (Chakra by Zetsu, Physically by Karin)

Kages were fresh, pein was weakened and deva was on the brake after big ST. Even all the help naruto got wasnt enough for SM alone to beat pain. He got pinned down. Naruto "defeating" pain is the most blasphemous atrocity in this manga, GTFO.

Kages were fresh and they practically killed him in seconds if it weren't for Zetsu and Tobi. Oh and BTW, Sasuke didn't really beat Danzo, Danzo was limited just like Pein was. He couldn't use KA from the beginning and when he was able to, Tobi was preventing him from doing it.

You included Hinata in the Pein fight yet you didn't include Karin in the Danzo fight when she helped more than Hinata ever did? Clear fanboyism.

Sasuke needed itachi eyes to restore his sight not for a power up, naruto needs kurama cuz SM isnt enough.
SM lasts 5 min, sasuke outlasted 10min of izanagi, and that with all the fighting he had in same day.
MS sasuke rapes SM naruto its not even funny.

No he said he wanted to use it to beat Naruto. Tobi commented as to why he suddenly change his mind. If it was because of blindness it would be the most foolish comment ever. Naruto wanted to control Kurama because he didn't want to hurt his friends.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Then do it manually like everyone else.


No. It's a joke argument. Because he does look into eyes.


He was not sensing Amaterasu. He was sensing Itachi's chakra, and assumed it was Amaterasu. The fact that he said this:

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Show that he was clueless. Him sensing Itachi's chakra does not mean he was sensing a Jutsu in proximity of Naruto.

Nagato did sense amaterasu, he was just dumbfounded when Itachi stopped himself from using it.

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The very next page after the one that you showed me had Itachi using amaterasu. KA freed Itachi when the crow saw his MS preparing to use amaterasu. Then, Itachi delayed amaterasu so that he wouldn't hit amaterasu. Lastly, he changed his targets to Nagato's summons. This means that Nagato's prediction was correct. There's no denying it.


Joke argument? lol! You're just buthurt that it can be so easily countered. Here's my responce to you saying that he has to look into Sasuke's eyes.

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Since we haven't seen Sasuke learning finger genjutsu, I'm guessing that he's thoroughly screwed when it comes to using genjutsu.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Just like it was stated that Yata can block all attacks or that Preta absorbs an unlimited amount of chakra. Feats>DB descriptions.

Naruto used the same kind of Rasengan, but it was in Base, though it shouldn't be that much weaker than the Sage Art version used by Jiraiya...it didn't even crack or dent Madara's weakest Susanoo.

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Yet I'm supposed to believe the Sage Art version can go from being unable to damage Madara's Susanoo to being able to blow up a Mountain? No way.

Big problem from your comparison. Sage art: massive ransengan's destructive power is clearly defined, while yata mirror and Preta path are just have claims that their power is absolute.


As for your last point, this only means that you underestimate Sage mode's enhancement, not that the databook is wrong. By this reasoning: am I supposed to believe KCM enhances ninjutsu significantly when it's the highest level of chakra change in nature and form and just barely broke through 3rd raikage's lightning armor, which is weak against wind, while enhanced?! Think about how much Naruto's strength was increased in SM. It's insane! Imagine that applied to ninjutsu.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Just like it was stated that Yata can block all attacks or that Preta absorbs an unlimited amount of chakra. Feats>DB descriptions.

Naruto used the same kind of Rasengan, but it was in Base, though it shouldn't be that much weaker than the Sage Art version used by Jiraiya...it didn't even crack or dent Madara's weakest Susanoo.

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Yet I'm supposed to believe the Sage Art version can go from being unable to damage Madara's Susanoo to being able to blow up a Mountain? No way.

No proof yata doesn't block any thing.
No proof peers can't absorb unlimited chakra.
Didn't you also argue before that kcm doesn't boost Mina to at all? Lel


Sasuke still wins. People still wanking naruto and his 2-3 shots of FRS eh

 

[HadouKage]

No proof yata doesn't block any thing.
No proof peers can't absorb unlimited chakra.
Didn't you also argue before that kcm doesn't boost Mina to at all? Lel


Sasuke still wins. People still wanking naruto and his 2-3 shots of FRS eh

Where's your proof that Yata can reflect all attacks?

 

[AGoodBoy]

Where's your proof that Yata can reflect all attacks?

Manga and db said so. You need proof that it was broken, cracked, or scratched.

Trigonometry. Not everything has a limit.

 

[HadouKage]

Manga and db said so. You need proof that it was broken, cracked, or scratched.

Trigonometry. Not everything has a limit.

Manga and DB said Raikiri can cut all
So that means Yata gets cut?

 

[AGoodBoy]

Manga and DB said Raikiri can cut all
So that means Yata gets cut?

Sure. Until we learnt it was useless when the lightning(basis of piercing power) was absorbed. Try again.
They Said it won't break. You assume ninja even have enough power to get through its possible limit, when not even lightning or tbb could get through a susano'o.

 

[HadouKage]

Sure. Until we learnt it was useless when the lightning(basis of piercing power) was absorbed. Try again.
They Said it won't break. You assume ninja even have enough power to get through its possible limit, when not even lightning or tbb could get through a susano'o.

When did this happen? If you are referring to the Raikage battle first off
1. Chidori isn't Raikiri
2. And even then the Raikage still got pierced
So using that as an argument is moot

Secondly, when was Raikiri ever used on Sussano? The only one who knows Raikiri is Kakashi and I don't recall him ever doing such a thing. Stop making baseless assumptions because you can't defend your argument. I'm simply throwing your logic back at you

 

[2big]

SM>
jariah would of beat pein if he knew his secrets which pein said himself
so that pretty much proves that eyes arent everything
naruto has dones of tools in sm that would put him above sasuke

 

[AGoodBoy]

When did this happen? If you are referring to the Raikage battle first off
1. Chidori isn't Raikiri
2. And even then the Raikage still got pierced
So using that as an argument is moot

Secondly, when was Raikiri ever used on Sussano? The only one who knows Raikiri is Kakashi and I don't recall him ever doing such a thing. Stop making baseless assumptions because you can't defend your argument. I'm simply throwing your logic back at you

Off topic defamation. Nice. I don't know where you got anything you wrote.

Never mentioned a raikiri being used on a susano'o but that's cool that you read that.
Chidori is the same technique as raikiri but cool. Cool. Drainage was pierced by sasuke's fist and some partial rai ton before it dissipated through his cloak. Thus far, raikiri has cut anything.

Rai kiri cuts anything. Not, rai kiri cannot be countered. If you got rid of the rai kiri before it hit you, orgot rid of it during the hit, you're no longer being hit by rai kiri. You countered rai kiri, but blocked a fist. Try again.

I await your next response. I can't wait to see what you'll read from this, this time.

 

[HadouKage]

Off topic defamation. Nice. I don't know where you got anything you wrote.

Never mentioned a raikiri being used on a susano'o but that's cool that you read that.
Chidori is the same technique as raikiri but cool. Cool. Drainage was pierced by sasuke's fist and some partial rai ton before it dissipated through his cloak. Thus far, raikiri has cut anything.

Rai kiri cuts anything. Not, rai kiri cannot be countered. If you got rid of the rai kiri before it hit you, orgot rid of it during the hit, you're no longer being hit by rai kiri. You countered rai kiri, but blocked a fist. Try again.

I await your next response. I can't wait to see what you'll read from this, this time.

Misread the lightning part

1. No, Chidori is not the same technique as Raikiri. Raikiri is more concentrated than Chidori, thus increasing its piercing power. By your logic Chakara Gun Volley = TBB?

2.

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His cloak was up when Sasuke pierced him when his cloak was up. In the panel before he pierced him, this is clearly shown before the panel he pierced him. Even the Raikage states this and shows that he is impressed. Don't know where you pulled this assumption from

3. Never said Raikiri couldn't be countered, quit putting words in my mouth. I said Raikiri pierces all and has yet to fail to do so. And you still haven't answered my question. Based of manga facts and the DB, Raikiri pierces Yata?

 

[AGoodBoy]

Misread the lightning part

1. No, Chidori is not the same technique as Raikiri. Raikiri is more concentrated than Chidori, thus increasing its piercing power. By your logic Chakara Gun Volley = TBB?

They;re the exact same technique, using the exact same method. Kakashi doesn't make a spear with it. Kakashi doesn't use 4 fingers instead of 5/fist/hand/w.e. Kakashi doesn't slap you instead of pierching. It's exactly the same except kakashi's own is more powerful. That's not like saying chakra gun volley = TBB. IT's like saying Kyuubi TBB isn't the exact same technique as juubi TBB, except weaker.

2.

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His cloak was up when Sasuke pierced him when his cloak was up. In the panel before he pierced him, this is clearly shown before the panel he pierced him. Even the Raikage shows that he is impressed. Don't know where you pulled this assumption from

Alright, Fine. If you still want to go on some nonsense parade about Raikiri (don't know what this has to do with a shield named Yata's mirror, but alright.). So, fine. Sasuke pierced him. Hence, Sasuke Cut him. Blood came out, meaning he was cut, correct? Good. Correct. Let's continue.

"Manga and DB said Raikiri can cut all"
This is your quote.
" His cloak was up when Sasuke pierced him when his cloak was up."
This was your response. You're basically saying that Chidori (weaker raikiri) Cut the raikage (Disproving my not-cutting) in order to prove the statement 'raikiri cuts all' a hyperbole? What... You literally just tried to prove to me that raikiri cuts all, to disprove raikiri cuts all.

3. Never said Raikiri couldn't be countered, quit putting words in my mouth. I said Raikiri pierces all and has yet to fail to do so. And you still haven't answered my question. Based of manga facts and the DB, Raikiri pierces Yata?

I've put nothing in your mouth yet. I'm telling you the difference between defending and countering because it tied into the point -- which i hoped you'd get -- that, even though raikiri can cut all, doesn't mean it can't be countered. Hence, the fact that raikiri can cut all, doesn't mean it can cut through yata. Yata would counter, not defend, but counter it.

Therefore, Based on Manga fact and DB, raikiri doesn't pierce yata. Yata would take on a form to counter it. The same way sasuke's fist couldn't fully pass through raikage.
But, In the case that raikiri does pierce yata( It won't. But, you'll respond saying it will), good on it. There's a few feet of space between itachi and yata, therefore raikiri wouldn't even make it all the way to the actual person.
I guess we'd have that situation like with 3rd raikage(super armor + super spear), huh? Wherein kakashi would be the only ninja who would actually be able to get through yata.

 

[HadouKage]

They;re the exact same technique, using the exact same method. Kakashi doesn't make a spear with it. Kakashi doesn't use 4 fingers instead of 5/fist/hand/w.e. Kakashi doesn't slap you instead of pierching. It's exactly the same except kakashi's own is more powerful. That's not like saying chakra gun volley = TBB. IT's like saying Kyuubi TBB isn't the exact same technique as juubi TBB, except weaker.


Alright, Fine. If you still want to go on some nonsense parade about Raikiri (don't know what this has to do with a shield named Yata's mirror, but alright.). So, fine. Sasuke pierced him. Hence, Sasuke Cut him. Blood came out, meaning he was cut, correct? Good. Correct. Let's continue.

"Manga and DB said Raikiri can cut all"
This is your quote.
" His cloak was up when Sasuke pierced him when his cloak was up."
This was your response. You're basically saying that Chidori (weaker raikiri) Cut the raikage (Disproving my not-cutting) in order to prove the statement 'raikiri cuts all' wrong? What... You literally just tried to prove to me that raikiri cuts all, to disprove raikiri cuts all.



I've put nothing in your mouth yet. I'm telling you the difference between defending and countering because it tied into the point -- which i hoped you'd get -- that, even though raikiri can cut all, doesn't mean it can't be countered. Hence, the fact that raikiri can cut all, doesn't mean it can cut through yata. Yata would counter, not defend, but counter it.

Therefore, Based on Manga fact and DB, raikiri doesn't pierce yata. Yata would take on a form to counter it. The same way sasuke's fist couldn't fully pass through raikage.
But, In the case that raikiri does pierce yata( It won't. But, you'll respond saying it will), good on it. There's a few feet of space between itachi and yata, therefore raikiri wouldn't even make it all the way to the actual person.
I guess we'd have that situation like with 3rd raikage(super armor + super spear), huh? Wherein kakashi would be the only ninja who would actually be able to get through yata.

1. Coming from the same source composed of the same thing, yes it is. Want a better example? That like saying Chou Odama Rasengan is the same as Rasengan when in actuality it isn't. Similar but not the same

2. So now we are playing word games? How is relevant to your defense at all? If anything this helps prove my statement more. Chidori cut the Raikage so logically Raikiri can as well since Chidori is weaker than Raikiri

3. Do you have a manga scan support your argument? When has Yata countered a technique with a nature infinity involved with it? Guess you don't know how to read a dictionary based on the bolded. Like I said, I'm doing nothing but using you're own logic

 

[AGoodBoy]

1. Coming from the same source composed of the same thing, yes it is. Want a better example? That like saying Chou Odama Rasengan is the same as Rasengan when in actuality it isn't. Similar but not the same

2. So now we are playing word games? How is relevant to your defense at all? If anything this helps prove my statement more. Chidori cut the Raikage so logically Raikiri can as well since Chidori is weaker than Raikiri

3. Do you have a manga scan support your argument? When has Yata countered a technique with a nature infinity involved with it? Guess you don't know how to read a dictionary based on the bolded. Like I said, I'm doing nothing but using you're own logic

The Sage Art: Ultra Big Ball Rasengan is a gigantic Rasengan created by Naruto Uzumaki, enhanced with sage chakra. Although its destructive effects have not been seen, it was used to distract Kurama. Presumably, it is as strong as Jiraiya's version which was said to be able to carve away a mountain if it exploded.

It's a bigger rasengan. I'm not seeing how this disproves raikiri is just a stronger chidori.

2. I don't know what we're getting at here. I don't know if you're trying to disprove or enforce yata's hype. You can't enforce raikiri's hype, then try to disprove yata's... You're confusing me, and probably yourself too.

3.

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"A shield that turns back ANY attack" Therefore, it counters, not defends, but counters, any attack. Nature affinity is a type of attack. It gets reflected. Stop using "I'm only using your logic..." As an excuse to try to feel smarter than me and win this arguement. That's a cheap cop-out. And, for that matter, it's not my logic. It's kishi's logic. Go tell him to re-write his manga if you hate it that much.

I get the feeling you simply hate itachi, that's why you're desperately trying to corner me with the yata arguement so that no-one can sucessfully use it in VS.
I even noticed that you're not even trying to refute the fact that preta absorbs all chakra. You didn't even hint at that, even though it's in the same boat as yata, raikiri, etc. That really leads me to believe that you just actually hate itachi and you're specifically targeting him.

The Fact is, Yata is unbreakable. Nothing's breaking it. Based on Kishi's logic, naruto's not breaking it. Madara's not breaking it. juubi's not breaking it. Does that mean itachi beats juubi? No. Because he can't hold up susano'o + yata combo for more than a minute, and there's probably a way to counter, not break, but counter it( example sound genjutsu ). Learn to formulate a strategy to defeat someone, not try to debunk their jutsu.

OH, and PS. Since they said "it can turn back any attack" that logically means it's unbreakable. You can't turn back everything if you're going to break.

/logic.

 

[HadouKage]

It's a bigger rasengan. I'm not seeing how this disproves raikiri is just a stronger chidori.

2. I don't know what we're getting at here. I don't know if you're trying to disprove or enforce yata's hype. You can't enforce raikiri's hype, then try to disprove yata's... You're confusing me, and probably yourself too.

3.

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"A shield that turns back ANY attack" Therefore, it counters, not defends, but counters, any attack. Nature affinity is a type of attack. It gets reflected. Stop using "I'm only using your logic..." As an excuse to try to feel smarter than me and win this arguement. That's a cheap cop-out. And, for that matter, it's not my logic. It's kishi's logic. Go tell him to re-write his manga if you hate it that much.

I get the feeling you simply hate itachi, that's why you're desperately trying to corner me with the yata arguement so that no-one can sucessfully use it in VS.
I even noticed that you're not even trying to refute the fact that preta absorbs all chakra. You didn't even hint at that, even though it's in the same boat as yata, raikiri, etc. That really leads me to believe that you just actually hate itachi and you're specifically targeting him.

The Fact is, Yata is unbreakable. Nothing's breaking it. Based on Kishi's logic, naruto's not breaking it. Madara's not breaking it. juubi's not breaking it. Does that mean itachi beats juubi? No. Because he can't hold up susano'o + yata combo for more than a minute, and there's probably a way to counter, not break, but counter it( example sound genjutsu ). Learn to formulate a strategy to defeat someone, not try to debunk their jutsu.

OH, and PS. Since they said "it can turn back any attack" that logically means it's unbreakable. You can't turn back everything if you're going to break.

/logic.

1. Because it's not the same technique, if it was he'd just call it Rasengan

2. Raikiri cuts Yata, why would I try to disprove something I'm defending?

3. What is this? Words, words said by characters such as Iruka stating Hiruzen was GOS. No, I want manga scans of feat not words. Until I do, Yata's hype is featless. I can easily provide, statements, scans and DB info to back up my argument, you however cannot as you will not find scans of Yata block nature infused jutsu.

4. Preta's hype has been proven, when has it failed to absorb jutsu/chakara?

5. Kishi logic is known as contradictary. If we follow your example of "proof" I can easily say that PS slash > Yata (which IMO I believe Yata can tank) because Madara said "Yata breaks all creation." Using character statements as proof instead of actual feats equals to flawed logic

I don't hate Itachi, in fact he's on of my fav chars (despite fanboys ruining his image) but I cannot stand when ppl hypocritical try to assert their arguments, prove it's logical and cannot except the same source as a fundamental basis

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Raikiri isn't cutting through Susanoo ...

 

[Sennin of Logic]

:sy: Kyuubi's chakra has ALWAYS buffed his moves. Always, don't even know why you are clinging to this point like it matters at all.

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Believe what you will though, it doesn't matter to me as it doesn't hinder my argument in the slightest.


No proof saying he can't do it when Kagutsuchi is stated to allow him to change Amaterasu's form = a baseless post. Don't bring up this nonsense again unless you have proof he can't do it. End of story.

@bold: See, this is why you can't read the manga.

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Do you not see the black flame in his Susanoos hand? That is Enton. End of story. You're wrong, deal with it.



A Susanoo stronger than the one that blocked Kirin, which is many times stronger than FRS, isn't getting a scratch from a Massive Rasengan, which is many times weaker than FRS. Use some damn logic...geez.

V4 with MS isn't very memorable. Wanna no why? Sasuke only had V4 for an instant! He didn't get to use it with MS so we can't really make it part of Sasuke's arsenal. Neither Sasuke nor Itachi have been shown to maintain V4 for long periods of time. Heck, Sasuke couldn't maintain V3 for the full 10 minutes. It was clearly exhausting him.

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I did notice that He could use amaterasu with V1/2, however.....

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I'm not sure whether it's meant that using them simultaneously did that or using it quickly after disbanding it drained him. Don't forget using susanoo harms Sasuke. He was literally coughing blood while using it.

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Naruto's ransenshuriken in SM would definitely cut through V3 susanoo. Danzo used his wind style enhanced by his summons to cut a clear opening on the susanoo.

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Naruto in SM outclassed summons in ways that they were specifically made for.

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The rhino summons requires no explanation. The bird was given more screen time in the anime, and we saw that it was fast enough to break windows. That means that it travels at supersonic speeds. If Naruto can outclass summons at what they're best at, then it's extremely likely that he's stronger than most, if not all summons in power of ninjutsu. Ransenshuriken is the highest level of shape and nature transformation. This combined with the enhanced power of SM would at least be as powerful as Danzo's wind style. It would at least be able to cut through V3.