Naruto's Cunning

[Dooms88]

wrong. naruto listen others... so kakashi idiot too? which skills have sasuke for hokage?

Was that English? >.>

 

[Equalist]

Naruto and Sasuke are equally horrendous choices for Hokage.

Naruto looks at the world like a child does. The good guys are always good, the bad guys are always bad, if he believes in friendship and potato chips everything will be A-OK. He isn't smart enough to know that there are other people out there in the world with different upbringings, different life experiences, and different ideologies. To this day he still doesn't understand why Sasuke did what he did and if he can't understand the mind and heart of a single individual, what good is he to the village and the shinobi world as a whole? If you have a leader who is too dumb to know what a single person thinks or feels, he is not going to be able to do for the people that which needs to be done.

Sasuke has been made wiser than Naruto but he also suffers from emotional immaturity. He understands why Itachi did what he did - while Naruto is completely ignorant mind you. He understands why the Senju handled the Uchiha in the manner they did - another event Naruto is completely ignorant of. And Sasuke understands why the people of Konoha look at the Uchiha the way they do [or did] - once again, another stigma which Naruto isn't even aware exists. Sasuke's issue however is that while he "understands" both sides his mindset is still centered on the Uchiha (just himself at this point really) and not the village as a whole.

Of all the people who were Hokage, only Hiruzen was adequately competent enough to lead. Of all the people who could have been Hokage, only Itachi was competent enough for the job. Of all the people who should be Hokage, only Kakashi or Shikamaru are responsible enough to have the seat.

While Naruto's cunning is open to debate (it's not but I'll humor you) the matter of who should be Hokage is not open to discussion. Person A thinks that Naruto should be Hokage contra Person B thinks Sasuke should be Hokage. In the event this discussion branches off further and becomes a hate thread as to who should be Hokage, keep in mind that most of you will be wrong anyway.

 

[take it easy]

Naruto and Sasuke are equally horrendous choices for Hokage.

Naruto looks at the world like a child does. The good guys are always good, the bad guys are always bad, if he believes in friendship and potato chips everything will be A-OK. He isn't smart enough to know that there are other people out there in the world with different upbringings, different life experiences, and different ideologies. To this day he still doesn't understand why Sasuke did what he did and if he can't understand the mind and heart of a single individual, what good is he to the village and the shinobi world as a whole? If you have a leader who is too dumb to know what a single person thinks or feels, he is not going to be able to do for the people that which needs to be done.

Sasuke has been made wiser than Naruto but he also suffers from emotional immaturity. He understands why Itachi did what he did - while Naruto is completely ignorant mind you. He understands why the Senju handled the Uchiha in the manner they did - another event Naruto is completely ignorant of. And Sasuke understands why the people of Konoha look at the Uchiha the way they do [or did] - once again, another stigma which Naruto isn't even aware exists. Sasuke's issue however is that while he "understands" both sides his mindset is still centered on the Uchiha (just himself at this point really) and not the village as a whole.

Of all the people who were Hokage, only Hiruzen was adequately competent enough to lead. Of all the people who could have been Hokage, only Itachi was competent enough for the job. Of all the people who should be Hokage, only Kakashi or Shikamaru are responsible enough to have the seat.

While Naruto's cunning is open to debate (it's not but I'll humor you) the matter of who should be Hokage is not open to discussion. Person A thinks that Naruto should be Hokage contra Person B thinks Sasuke should be Hokage. In the event this discussion branches off further and becomes a hate thread as to who should be Hokage, keep in mind that most of you will be wrong anyway.

youre wrong. naruto after invasion of pain understand sasuke feelings. naruto understand why itachi made uchiha massacre and many more

 

[XxLotusxX]

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I think I'll continue reading Naruto, thanks. I took your post seriously because it was redundant. And no I did not see it as I was replying. Either way, the entire post was unnecessary, as it does not contribute to the thread. Do you have a relevant opinion on the matter or not?

 

[Optimistic]

I think I'll continue reading Naruto, thanks.

You're welcome.

I took your post seriously because it was redundant.

Don't give a F about your reason, you took it seriously does that mean you take blonde jokes seriously in general? i hope not.

And no I did not see it as I was replying.

Yup i was right.

Either way, the entire post was unnecessary,

Ok if your gonna go down this unnecessary route, you going into detail about Naruto being 'smart' is unnecessary since half of Nb knows this.

as it does not contribute to the thread.

neither did your first and second reply.

Do you have a relevant opinion on the matter or not?

Yes i do Naruto's dumb for liking a ***** like Sakura.see i did a relevant post right here.

 

[XxLotusxX]

Naruto and Sasuke are equally horrendous choices for Hokage.

Naruto looks at the world like a child does. The good guys are always good, the bad guys are always bad, if he believes in friendship and potato chips everything will be A-OK. He isn't smart enough to know that there are other people out there in the world with different upbringings, different life experiences, and different ideologies. 1.To this day he still doesn't understand why Sasuke did what he didand if he can't understand the mind and heart of a single individual, what good is he to the village and the shinobi world as a whole? If you have a leader who is too dumb to know what a single person thinks or feels, he is not going to be able to do for the people that which needs to be done.
Sasuke has been made wiser than Naruto but he also suffers from emotional immaturity. He understands why Itachi did what he did - while Naruto is completely ignorant mind you. He understands why the Senju handled the Uchiha in the manner they did - another event Naruto is completely ignorant of. And Sasuke understands why the people of Konoha look at the Uchiha the way they do [or did] - once again, another stigma which Naruto isn't even aware exists. Sasuke's issue however is that while he "understands" both sides his mindset is still centered on the Uchiha (just himself at this point really) and not the village as a whole.

Of all the people who were Hokage, only Hiruzen was adequately competent enough to lead. Of all the people who could have been Hokage, only Itachi was competent enough for the job. Of all the people who should be Hokage, only Kakashi or Shikamaru are responsible enough to have the seat.

While Naruto's cunning is open to debate (it's not but I'll humor you) the matter of who should be Hokage is not open to discussion. Person A thinks that Naruto should be Hokage contra Person B thinks Sasuke should be Hokage. In the event this discussion branches off further and becomes a hate thread as to who should be Hokage, keep in mind that most of you will be wrong anyway.

1.

Spoiler

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Can you elaborate on why you think Tobirama and Minato were not adequate enough to be hokage?

 

[neilson]

OT would be intriguing to see sasuke as hokage.

 

[XxLotusxX]

Agreed. Im curious as to what changes he would make to the village system to prevent situations like his.

 

[Equalist]

1.

Spoiler

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Can you elaborate on why you think Tobirama and Minato were not adequate enough to be hokage?

I'm not being rude or at least that isn't my intent, but did you actually understand my argument? I ask this because the panel you posted only proves the validity of my statements. Naruto cannot understand Sasuke's feelings or his dilemma just because he had a brief conversation with Tobi. Please remember that Tobi lies. He lies quite often. He told Naruto those things for no reason other than to pit Naruto and Sasuke against each other which, did not work of course, but still, how can Naruto understand Sasuke based on a half-truth?

Even if Naruto had a "conference" with Itachi at any point in this series where Itachi promoted his tell all book "How To Murder Your Family" Naruto will never understand Sasuke. Permit me to ask, does Naruto have siblings? Does Naruto have an older brother who murdered his parents? Does Naruto originate from a clan that is hated by the village? The answer to all these is no. And the issue with that is these three questions codify the key points in Sasuke's very existence.

The fact that Naruto tells Sasuke he understands him does not mean that Naruto actually understands him. On the contrary, it actually shows that Naruto still has yet to grow up. He is still naive. Sasuke's issues, much like Nagato's issues by the way, are trauma's that Naruto cannot understand even if he tries. His belief that he does is not only offensive but devoid of any cognitive sensitivity that is needed in a Hokage. In conclusion you have proven my argument for me.

With regards to Tobirama his racism is a major issue. It's true that he was raised to be that way. It's also true that the Senju and the Uchiha were enemies. However, Tobirama openly states that he disliked the Uchiha. He wanted to kill Sasuke on sight just because he was a member of the Uchiha clan.

Tobirama states that there were some Uchiha he liked such as Kagami. But just because he liked one or two that doesn't change the fact that he's a racist and even his own brother knew that.

Suppose for a moment I say, "Yeah those blacks are always destroying neighborhoods and if they spent less time smoking crack, getting pregnant while in high school, and staying out of prison they might be starting Fortune 500 companies like white men do. Wide nose having big booty shaking, they can twerk but they can't work. Yeah but y'know I like Wiz Khalifa. He's pretty cool."

Now suppose I made that statement. You would call me a racist and you would be right to do it.

Now Tobirama said he wasn't opposed to keeping the Uchiha around, he even left them in charge of Konoha's police because it was a job "they were good at." That's like saying "So we got an African-American student who wants to take a college prep course but y'know I enrolled him in gym because that's what they're good at."

A Hokage must know all the inner workings of his village and this is crucial in understanding the people who live there who the Hokage must serve. Minato was ignorant of the issues with the Uchiha and the village as a whole. Do I even need to elaborate on Minato or has he done his work for me?

 

[FemmeFatale]

wrong. naruto listen others... so kakashi idiot too? which skills have sasuke for hokage?

Analyzing and what not, and he could be the "bad cop" the one who interrogates spys like the man from the chunnin exams ect. Basically he does the dirty work, that may ruin the hokages image.

 

[CamW]

Nice thread, I agree

 

[6ari8]

Naruto and Sasuke are equally horrendous choices for Hokage.

Naruto looks at the world like a child does. The good guys are always good, the bad guys are always bad, if he believes in friendship and potato chips everything will be A-OK. He isn't smart enough to know that there are other people out there in the world with different upbringings, different life experiences, and different ideologies. To this day he still doesn't understand why Sasuke did what he did and if he can't understand the mind and heart of a single individual, what good is he to the village and the shinobi world as a whole? If you have a leader who is too dumb to know what a single person thinks or feels, he is not going to be able to do for the people that which needs to be done.

Did you watch the Pein invasion arc? What did Sasuke do when his brother killed his family? He went straight to vengance and didn't really try to understand why Itachi did what he did. On the other hand, when Pein killed Jiraiya, the closest person Naruto has to a family, and destroyed his village, Naruto didn't straight away kill Nagato. He actually wanted to know how he became the person he was and controlled his emotions in front of the man that did it. That shows a very high level of maturity IMO.

Sasuke has been made wiser than Naruto but he also suffers from emotional immaturity. He understands why Itachi did what he did - while Naruto is completely ignorant mind you. He understands why the Senju handled the Uchiha in the manner they did - another event Naruto is completely ignorant of. And Sasuke understands why the people of Konoha look at the Uchiha the way they do [or did] - once again, another stigma which Naruto isn't even aware exists. Sasuke's issue however is that while he "understands" both sides his mindset is still centered on the Uchiha (just himself at this point really) and not the village as a whole.

Naruto does understand why Itachi did what he did. He doesn't know the village history so how can he understand it? When someone explains things to him as easily as they were explained to Sasuke, I'm pretty sure he would understand (even if he doesn't agree).

 

[Equalist]

Did you watch the Pein invasion arc? What did Sasuke do when his brother killed his family? He went straight to vengance and didn't really try to understand why Itachi did what he did. On the other hand, when Pein killed Jiraiya, the closest person Naruto has to a family, and destroyed his village, Naruto didn't straight away kill Nagato. He actually wanted to know how he became the person he was and controlled his emotions in front of the man that did it. That shows a very high level of maturity IMO.

1) I do not watch Naruto Shippuden as I have a bit more respect for the title than that. I do however read the manga.

2) Your argument about Sasuke's actions only proves my earlier arguments. So why would you posit it as a challenge whilst actually proving my point?

3) Yes, yes Naruto immediately wanted to kill Pain the moment he learned of Jiraiya's death. This was blatant. And when Naruto met Nagato he admitted that he wanted to kill him because of what he did to Jiraiya but because they were mentored by the same person, Naruto wanted to hear what made him change. These facts were all in the manga, which is the medium most of the astute members here use in their arguments. No one sensible relies on the anime because the anime cuts content for runtime. If you actually bothered to read the manga I wouldn't have to point these details out to you.

Naruto does understand why Itachi did what he did. He doesn't know the village history so how can he understand it? When someone explains things to him as easily as they were explained to Sasuke, I'm pretty sure he would understand (even if he doesn't agree).

No, no he doesn't. Even if you "believe" he does, he doesn't. This isn't about what you "believe." You can believe anything you want so no one bothers debating beliefs. This is about what is logically, canonically accurate as these things can be proven or disproved based on evidence presented or absent here from. Without having the same experiences as Itachi or Sasuke or Madara or Nagato, Naruto will never be able to understand them. These are facts. These are not your beliefs which is why we aren't wasting time debating what you think.

 

[6ari8]

1) I do not watch Naruto Shippuden as I have a bit more respect for the title than that. I do however read the manga.

2) Your argument about Sasuke's actions only proves my earlier arguments. So why would you posit it as a challenge whilst actually proving my point?

3) Yes, yes Naruto immediately wanted to kill Pain the moment he learned of Jiraiya's death. This was blatant. And when Naruto met Nagato he admitted that he wanted to kill him because of what he did to Jiraiya but because they were mentored by the same person, Naruto wanted to hear what made him change. These facts were all in the manga, which is the medium most of the astute members here use in their arguments. No one sensible relies on the anime because the anime cuts content for runtime. If you actually bothered to read the manga I wouldn't have to point these details out to you.

1,3) I watch the canon parts of anime and do read the manga. I'm not sure why you brought this up. Are you saying that the anime portrayed the relevant events I mentioned differently than they were in the manga?

2) what arguments?

No, no he doesn't. Even if you "believe" he does, he doesn't. This isn't about what you "believe." You can believe anything you want so no one bothers debating beliefs. This is about what is logically, canonically accurate as these things can be proven or disproved based on evidence presented or absent here from. Without having the same experiences as Itachi or Sasuke or Madara or Nagato, Naruto will never be able to understand them. These are facts. These are not your beliefs which is why we aren't wasting time debating what you think.

What you're saying is also only what you "believe". You only "believe" he doesn't understand that but I believe he clearly does. He had a similar experience to all the characters you mentioned. Madara was shunned by his village as Naruto was, Nagato's loved ones were killed by Konoha and his home was destroyed by the war as Naruto's closest person was killed by Akatsuki and his home was destroyed by them, Sasuke wanted revenge against Konoha that took away his beloved brother as Naruto did (at the beginning) against Pein.

What I don't understand is that you said that while Naruto doesn't understand why Itachi did what he did, Sasuke does. However, you say that Naruto doesn't understand Itachi's actions because he didn't experience what Itachi did. Then again, Sasuke didn't experience that too. So again, why would Sasuke understand Itachi's actions if he didn't experience what Itachi did?

 

[Equalist]

1,3) I watch the canon parts of anime and do read the manga. I'm not sure why you brought this up. Are you saying that the anime portrayed the relevant events I mentioned differently than they were in the manga?

You stated that Naruto didn't want revenge against Pain. However, the manga states in at least three different places that Naruto wanted revenge. The elder frog even warned Naruto about pursuing Pain for that purpose. You claim you have read the manga yet somehow the several places wherein Naruto makes his aim for revenge clear are unknown to you. You either cannot comprehend what you read or you are a liar.

2) what arguments?

One thing you'll learn about me is that I don't repeat myself. Reread my earlier posts and don't respond to me unless you have something intelligent to add.

What you're saying is also only what you "believe". You only "believe" he doesn't understand that but I believe he clearly does. He had a similar experience to all the characters you mentioned.

No he didn't.

Madara was shunned by his village as Naruto was, Nagato's loved ones were killed by Konoha and his home was destroyed by the war as Naruto's closest person was killed by Akatsuki and his home was destroyed by them, Sasuke wanted revenge against Konoha that took away his beloved brother as Naruto did (at the beginning) against Pein.

All incorrect. Naruto was shunned because he had a demon inside of him. And his "shunning" only lasted until he was 12. In case you hadn't noticed and clearly you didn't, Naruto made plenty of friends by the time of Sasuke's departure from the village. While Naruto's early years were difficult, we saw him become friends with the other Rookie 11 and during this time Naruto was only 12. Not only that but Naruto never grew up during times of war. And contrary to what your deluded mind may think, Naruto did not experience loss until Jiraiya's death. The death of Naruto's parents means nothing because they died when Naruto was a baby. Like Sasuke said i.e., the canon, Naruto can't understand because Naruto can't miss what he never knew he had.

Madara and Nagato grew up during times of war. Nagato was old enough to be scarred by the deaths of his parents which he saw happen right in front of him. Nagato's best friend died in his arms. Madara was shunned by the same village he helped to build. Sasuke walked in on his brother right after he had finished killing his parents. Now let's compare that to Naruto.

Naruto did not even know his parents until he was 16. Obviously he couldn't have missed them. Neji was the only friend of Naruto's to die in his arms and they weren't exactly close. Naruto did not grow up during times of war. This proxy battle is the first real war that Naruto has been involved in and Naruto is currently 16 or 17. On the other hand Madara was fighting as early as he could walk while Nagato was born and raised during Amegakure's civil war. The mere fact that you have seduced yourself into thinking that someone who has not experience trauma (Naruto) can identify with war victims (Nagato, Madara, etc) shows that your worldview is simplistic and juvenile.

What I don't understand is that you said that while Naruto doesn't understand why Itachi did what he did, Sasuke does. However, you say that Naruto doesn't understand Itachi's actions because he didn't experience what Itachi did. Then again, Sasuke didn't experience that too. So again, why would Sasuke understand Itachi's actions if he didn't experience what Itachi did?

You are slow of understanding so let me make this as easy for you to understand as possible.

1) The Uchiha clan have the psychology of war victims.

1b) Naruto, having never been involved in war cannot understand this.



2) Itachi had to murder his own parents as well as the rest of his clans. This creates trauma.

2b) Naruto has never experienced trauma of this nature or anything remotely close to it.



3) To make matters worse the village carries a stigma of hatred towards the Uchiha simply because of "who" the Uchiha are.

3b) The village didn't hate Naruto because of "who" he was but rather what was "in" him.



I know number three went over your head so let me break that down further. The villagers never hated Naruto because of who he was. They were afraid of Naruto because of the kyuubi. In other words the villagers didn't hate Naruto on an existential level, they just feared the creature inside of him and they had every right to have that fear. If this were the real world you would be standoffish of Naruto too so please spare me any half-intelligible rebuttal you can contrive. On the other hand, after the Uchiha and Senju joined together, they fought other clans together. They died together. They fought for each other. And they worked together. But no matter what the Uchiha did the Senju hated them on an existential level. The Senju hated everything about the Uchiha despite working with them to build Konohagakure. We all know that the village rallied behind Naruto when he stood up to defend them from Pain. However, no matter what the Uchiha did the Senju never stopped hating them.

Do you not see the difference between these two variables? Are you so deluded that you cannot see that there is a vast difference between how someone like Madara, Itachi, or Sasuke are viewed compared to Naruto? The Uchiha are the pariahs of Konoha and there is nothing they can do to change that. The reason for this is that the hatred the Senju have for the Uchiha is greater than their love for the village. Tobirama and Hashirama even stated that no clan loves as strongly as the Uchiha do.

In continuation we know the Uchiha "love" more than anyone and any clan. Even Hashirama and Tobirama admitted this. The Uchiha loved Konoha so much that they abandoned Madara and rejected his ways. Yet the Senju still didn't trust the Uchiha even after they exiled their own founder and Tobirama stated that they were worried the clan would breed another Madara. Yet the clan rejected Madara and his ways, and how did Konoha reward them? By continuing the stigma of hatred and suspicion. There is a psychological and spiritual hatred of all things Uchiha within Konoha. Naruto cannot understand this.

You didn't get any of that I'm sure so let's talk about the real world. Suppose you sit down and talk with a Holocaust victim. You hear their story. Can you say you understand them? Well someone as immature as yourself would say yes. Someone "like you" would hear about the gas chambers, experiments, public executions, and so forth and you would be arrogant enough to say "Wow, I really understand everything you've gone through." Naruto is doing the same thing.

 

[AnimeFanGirl4Eva]

He's blonde so he's automatically stupid.Taking this post seriously means you need to stop reading Naruto for a while, getting offended by my not white sentence is just sad.

LOL true XD

 

[take it easy]

naruto is smarter than dumb haters

 

[XxLotusxX]

I'm not being rude or at least that isn't my intent, but did you actually understand my argument? I ask this because the panel you posted only proves the validity of my statements. Naruto cannot understand Sasuke's feelings or his dilemma just because he had a brief conversation with Tobi. Please remember that Tobi lies. He lies quite often. He told Naruto those things for no reason other than to pit Naruto and Sasuke against each other which, did not work of course, but still, how can Naruto understand Sasuke based on a half-truth?

Even if Naruto had a "conference" with Itachi at any point in this series where Itachi promoted his tell all book "How To Murder Your Family" Naruto will never understand Sasuke. Permit me to ask, does Naruto have siblings? Does Naruto have an older brother who murdered his parents? Does Naruto originate from a clan that is hated by the village? The answer to all these is no. And the issue with that is these three questions codify the key points in Sasuke's very existence.

The fact that Naruto tells Sasuke he understands him does not mean that Naruto actually understands him. On the contrary, it actually shows that Naruto still has yet to grow up. He is still naive. Sasuke's issues, much like Nagato's issues by the way, are trauma's that Naruto cannot understand even if he tries. His belief that he does is not only offensive but devoid of any cognitive sensitivity that is needed in a Hokage. In conclusion you have proven my argument for me.

With regards to Tobirama his racism is a major issue. It's true that he was raised to be that way. It's also true that the Senju and the Uchiha were enemies. However, Tobirama openly states that he disliked the Uchiha. He wanted to kill Sasuke on sight just because he was a member of the Uchiha clan.

Tobirama states that there were some Uchiha he liked such as Kagami. But just because he liked one or two that doesn't change the fact that he's a racist and even his own brother knew that.

Suppose for a moment I say, "Yeah those blacks are always destroying neighborhoods and if they spent less time smoking crack, getting pregnant while in high school, and staying out of prison they might be starting Fortune 500 companies like white men do. Wide nose having big booty shaking, they can twerk but they can't work. Yeah but y'know I like Wiz Khalifa. He's pretty cool."

Now suppose I made that statement. You would call me a racist and you would be right to do it.

Now Tobirama said he wasn't opposed to keeping the Uchiha around, he even left them in charge of Konoha's police because it was a job "they were good at." That's like saying "So we got an African-American student who wants to take a college prep course but y'know I enrolled him in gym because that's what they're good at."

A Hokage must know all the inner workings of his village and this is crucial in understanding the people who live there who the Hokage must serve. Minato was ignorant of the issues with the Uchiha and the village as a whole. Do I even need to elaborate on Minato or has he done his work for me?

I...do not have a substantial counter argument you are correct

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Naruto and Sasuke are equally horrendous choices for Hokage.

Naruto looks at the world like a child does. The good guys are always good, the bad guys are always bad, if he believes in friendship and potato chips everything will be A-OK. He isn't smart enough to know that there are other people out there in the world with different upbringings, different life experiences, and different ideologies. To this day he still doesn't understand why Sasuke did what he did and if he can't understand the mind and heart of a single individual, what good is he to the village and the shinobi world as a whole? If you have a leader who is too dumb to know what a single person thinks or feels, he is not going to be able to do for the people that which needs to be done.

Sasuke has been made wiser than Naruto but he also suffers from emotional immaturity. He understands why Itachi did what he did - while Naruto is completely ignorant mind you. He understands why the Senju handled the Uchiha in the manner they did - another event Naruto is completely ignorant of. And Sasuke understands why the people of Konoha look at the Uchiha the way they do [or did] - once again, another stigma which Naruto isn't even aware exists. Sasuke's issue however is that while he "understands" both sides his mindset is still centered on the Uchiha (just himself at this point really) and not the village as a whole.

Of all the people who were Hokage, only Hiruzen was adequately competent enough to lead. Of all the people who could have been Hokage, only Itachi was competent enough for the job. Of all the people who should be Hokage, only Kakashi or Shikamaru are responsible enough to have the seat.

While Naruto's cunning is open to debate (it's not but I'll humor you) the matter of who should be Hokage is not open to discussion. Person A thinks that Naruto should be Hokage contra Person B thinks Sasuke should be Hokage. In the event this discussion branches off further and becomes a hate thread as to who should be Hokage, keep in mind that most of you will be wrong anyway.

I'd be inclined to agree with you if one of the most recurring themes in Naruto is villains with a human heart. Naruto has seen how good people can be corrupted by making wrong choices in difficult circumstances. He doesn't see things as black and white anymore either.

He restrained himself from killing Nagato and managed to settle things peacefully with him. Since Nagato was insane, that would take a high level of understanding to reason with a madman.

Also, during his training to gain KCM, Naruto conquered his hatred. This probably increased his maturity in dealing with people even further.

 

[6ari8]

You stated that Naruto didn't want revenge against Pain. However, the manga states in at least three different places that Naruto wanted revenge. The elder frog even warned Naruto about pursuing Pain for that purpose. You claim you have read the manga yet somehow the several places wherein Naruto makes his aim for revenge clear are unknown to you. You either cannot comprehend what you read or you are a liar.

When did I say that he never wanted revenge? I even said that he understands Sasuke's actions after he knew the truth about Itachi because he wanted revenge in the beginning. But he endured in front of the person that caused him that loss. I'm not sure who doesn't comprehend what they reads here.

One thing you'll learn about me is that I don't repeat myself. Reread my earlier posts and don't respond to me unless you have something intelligent to add.

Ok. You said that my earlier post about Sasuke's actions proves your earlier arguments. I looked over your posts and found absolutely nothing that connects with that. What I wanted to elaborate on in that post is that Naruto isn't as childish as you make him to be. He doesn't see the world as black and white. Had he did that, he wouldn't have wanted to know anything about Pein/Nagato and simply wanted to kill him without talking to him.

All incorrect. Naruto was shunned because he had a demon inside of him. And his "shunning" only lasted until he was 12. In case you hadn't noticed and clearly you didn't, Naruto made plenty of friends by the time of Sasuke's departure from the village. While Naruto's early years were difficult, we saw him become friends with the other Rookie 11 and during this time Naruto was only 12. Not only that but Naruto never grew up during times of war. And contrary to what your deluded mind may think, Naruto did not experience loss until Jiraiya's death. The death of Naruto's parents means nothing because they died when Naruto was a baby. Like Sasuke said i.e., the canon, Naruto can't understand because Naruto can't miss what he never knew he had.




Madara and Nagato grew up during times of war. Nagato was old enough to be scarred by the deaths of his parents which he saw happen right in front of him. Nagato's best friend died in his arms. Madara was shunned by the same village he helped to build. Sasuke walked in on his brother right after he had finished killing his parents. Now let's compare that to Naruto.

Naruto did not even know his parents until he was 16. Obviously he couldn't have missed them. Neji was the only friend of Naruto's to die in his arms and they weren't exactly close. Naruto did not grow up during times of war. This proxy battle is the first real war that Naruto has been involved in and Naruto is currently 16 or 17. On the other hand Madara was fighting as early as he could walk while Nagato was born and raised during Amegakure's civil war. The mere fact that you have seduced yourself into thinking that someone who has not experience trauma (Naruto) can identify with war victims (Nagato, Madara, etc) shows that your worldview is simplistic and juvenile.

So you consider being despised and having everyone wish you death from the moment you're born, for over 10 years, as an average experience? Also, It wasn't just until he was 12, it lasted all the way to him defeating Pein. I never said anything about Naruto's parents, he never knew them so they're irrelevant here.

You are slow of understanding so let me make this as easy for you to understand as possible.

1) The Uchiha clan have the psychology of war victims.

1b) Naruto, having never been involved in war cannot understand this.



2) Itachi had to murder his own parents as well as the rest of his clans. This creates trauma.

2b) Naruto has never experienced trauma of this nature or anything remotely close to it.



3) To make matters worse the village carries a stigma of hatred towards the Uchiha simply because of "who" the Uchiha are.

3b) The village didn't hate Naruto because of "who" he was but rather what was "in" him.


I know number three went over your head so let me break that down further. The villagers never hated Naruto because of who he was. They were afraid of Naruto because of the kyuubi. In other words the villagers didn't hate Naruto on an existential level, they just feared the creature inside of him and they had every right to have that fear. If this were the real world you would be standoffish of Naruto too so please spare me any half-intelligible rebuttal you can contrive. On the other hand, after the Uchiha and Senju joined together, they fought other clans together. They died together. They fought for each other. And they worked together. But no matter what the Uchiha did the Senju hated them on an existential level. The Senju hated everything about the Uchiha despite working with them to build Konohagakure. We all know that the village rallied behind Naruto when he stood up to defend them from Pain. However, no matter what the Uchiha did the Senju never stopped hating them.

Do you not see the difference between these two variables? Are you so deluded that you cannot see that there is a vast difference between how someone like Madara, Itachi, or Sasuke are viewed compared to Naruto? The Uchiha are the pariahs of Konoha and there is nothing they can do to change that. The reason for this is that the hatred the Senju have for the Uchiha is greater than their love for the village. Tobirama and Hashirama even stated that no clan loves as strongly as the Uchiha do.

In continuation we know the Uchiha "love" more than anyone and any clan. Even Hashirama and Tobirama admitted this. The Uchiha loved Konoha so much that they abandoned Madara and rejected his ways. Yet the Senju still didn't trust the Uchiha even after they exiled their own founder and Tobirama stated that they were worried the clan would breed another Madara. Yet the clan rejected Madara and his ways, and how did Konoha reward them? By continuing the stigma of hatred and suspicion. There is a psychological and spiritual hatred of all things Uchiha within Konoha. Naruto cannot understand this.

You didn't get any of that I'm sure so let's talk about the real world. Suppose you sit down and talk with a Holocaust victim. You hear their story. Can you say you understand them? Well someone as immature as yourself would say yes. Someone "like you" would hear about the gas chambers, experiments, public executions, and so forth and you would be arrogant enough to say "Wow, I really understand everything you've gone through." Naruto is doing the same thing.

I don't think I'm slow as you my friend.

1) You said Naruto doesn't understand Itachi's actions but Sasuke does.
2) Sasuke and Naruto never experienced war until now.
3) Sasuke didn't commit anything close to what Itachi did.
4) How can Sasuke understand Itachi?

5)It was never stated that the village hated the Uchiha. The second hokage was cautious about them, but he didn't hate them, as no one did. They actually were very respected and looked up to by most of the village's inhabitants. However, it was stated that the village did hate Naruto. They didn't sit down and try to separate the entities of who is Naruto and what is inside him. They simply thought of Naruto as the demon himself.