Curse mark users>genjutsu users
- Thread starter HNIC
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blazekev90
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cursed seal..never..happened
there is no tear in the back of his clothing.. wngs never came out..it was all in a genjutsu...
that entire genjutsu happened in an instant.. He broke it with will power, sharingan and uchiha blood.. which according to the databook and Itachi is the only way to beat his Tsukyomi
there is no tear in the back of his clothing.. wngs never came out..it was all in a genjutsu...
that entire genjutsu happened in an instant.. He broke it with will power, sharingan and uchiha blood.. which according to the databook and Itachi is the only way to beat his Tsukyomi
blazekev90
Active member
one would have assumed the same thing here, yet it actually occurred
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Those crows flying about never happened either..
Lol it's not that hard to read Itachi,,you just need to look closely and pay attention to detail...The moment Naruto landed, he was put in a genjutsu... we knows this because in the genjutsu, he charges up to itachi and Itachi tells him "you're alreday in my genjutsu"
When the genjutsu ends.. naruto is at the first tee,
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IF any of that actually happened.. naruto would be at the 2nd tree from charging
but when the genjutsu ended, he was right back where he started
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, on the floorNeed more?
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Genjutsu ends, No feathers
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TLDR- Naruto jumps down , and is already in a genjutsu, While wobbling unconcious, itachi sends One actual crow down his throat
Utilizing black crows in real life, and genjutsu confuses the opponent.. you can't tell what is real and what is not
When Itachi actually uses crows
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Reality..
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Back to the original case... No tear means it all happened in a genjutsu...
i'm still not convince the curse mark has capability to break genjutsu because
1) even though curse seal has orochimaru's 'conscience' but they do not have their own 'will'.. they cant decide to break or what because its just a 'conscience'.. nothing more nothing less... unlike bijuu who has a 'will' and well alive
2)how to counter genjutsu... sharingan user is not equal to non-sharingan user... the conventional counter flow thinggy is applicable to a non-sharingan user... to stop the flow itself is quite a feat actually.. meanwhile, the sharingan user...well, just use their sharingan to counter it... they doesnt bother to counter flow as a normal ninja does..
3) every ninja has their natural chakra flow.... lets say the normal flow is clockwise.. curse seal attracts senjutsu chakra and enters their chakra stream ,but not necessarily disrupt the flow.. its like adding water into a flowing river...
1) even though curse seal has orochimaru's 'conscience' but they do not have their own 'will'.. they cant decide to break or what because its just a 'conscience'.. nothing more nothing less... unlike bijuu who has a 'will' and well alive
2)how to counter genjutsu... sharingan user is not equal to non-sharingan user... the conventional counter flow thinggy is applicable to a non-sharingan user... to stop the flow itself is quite a feat actually.. meanwhile, the sharingan user...well, just use their sharingan to counter it... they doesnt bother to counter flow as a normal ninja does..
3) every ninja has their natural chakra flow.... lets say the normal flow is clockwise.. curse seal attracts senjutsu chakra and enters their chakra stream ,but not necessarily disrupt the flow.. its like adding water into a flowing river...
Itachi Hatake
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Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg
Active member
maybe maybe not
we will never now because now it's all about ninjutsu and there are barely CS users
though I always considered Kimimaro stronger than any pre-Itachi version of Sasuke
we will never now because now it's all about ninjutsu and there are barely CS users
though I always considered Kimimaro stronger than any pre-Itachi version of Sasuke
The crow still came out of Naruto's mouth later in the war. This was my point early, physical occurrences that happen in Genjutsu are not actually there, but the mental means of using something does. So, Sasuke's weren't there because he was already in Genjutsu obviously nothing would appear, but he still used Curse Mark, so there was a shift in his chakra
1) his conscience it's the factor, it's his chakra manually given to the user once using curse mark. Unlike jinki who have to ask or hvae the cooperation of their tail beast in order to receive their chakra to disturb genjutsu Orochimaru's chakra is a given
Also it's not like adding water since it FORCEFULLY takes the users chakra and places Orochimar's chakra in
blazekev90
Active member
as expected, you just proved my point!
As you described, nothing really happens under genjustu, at least in reality (physical world)!
the birds, similar to Sasuke using CM disappeared once the genjutsu was over/cancelled. But you fail to understand, that though nothing had changed in the physical world, mental changes DO occur and in fact physical properties can be made/placed while in genjutsu.
Here,
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a bird merges out of Naruto's mouth. When was the bird placed? During Itachi's genjutsu. During genjustu ones senses are manipulated by the caster, so they have control of what is visually seen/heard/etc, but they CANNOT have anthers chakra. Sasuke at that point was under genjutsu, so his perceptions were being manipulated, however he still had control of his chakra in this illusion (we see things as the victims does). So while Sasuke did not make the physical change in the physical world, his chakra transitioned as it would normally when going through the stages of the CM.
So just as there were no feathers left behind, that does not mean there weren't any birds at all! Just as Sasuke appeared normal, this does not mean he never used CM.
Curse Mark
Active member
Juugo's the shittiest example you could have used. No one said absorbing natural energy frees you from genjutsu. Even if it did you're very far off.
Juugo already had it activated. It needs to be activated AFTER the genjutsu is cast to free them. It would make no sense for Sakura to put her chakra into naruto BEFORE fighting itachi, would it?
Curse Mark
Active member
there are some flaws though. I agree with what he said about sasuke not using it versus itachi but that doesn't matter. Just because it hasn't happened in canon yet doesn't mean it can't. It forces a foreign chakra into their body so it will break the genjutsu.
I said it was a possbile case, not concrete proof. Nonetheless, there is no proof to fully discredit it as well, since it was cancelled after Curse Mark was used. This would explain how a 3-tom was able to break MS genjutsu, which was unheard of. The combination of sharingen and curse mark overpowered it.
What are you talking about? the crow didn't get there through the genjutsu , it happened in real life... while naruto was in the genjutsu, in real life, itachi took one croww and sent it down his throat.. you do know a ninja can do things in reality while the victim is under a genjutsu?? just like itachi fought with kakashi etc while naruto was in finger genjutsu... like he cut orochimaru's arm off while he was in a genjutsu...
The only thing that was real was him sending the ka Crow down naruto's throat...
Cursed seal never happened.. sasuke never entered the mode.. proof being the wings never came out.. it was all in his imagination
You don't get it.. Juugo is CONSTANTLY drawing in nature energy.. so much so he can't control it and goes insane..., there is no balance
Not even this broke him out... you are assuming that someone draining your chakra, or adding external chakra = DISRUPTING your chakra flow.. and that's completely wrong...
Ninjas cannot even properly utilize chakra when in certain genjutsu, so I wonder why you think they can even ACTIVATE cursed seal....
when caught in Tayuyas genjutsu, sasuke and itachi could not activate susanno, their susanno even dropped... arguing that would mean that while in a genjutsu, minato can just ftg all over the place... it doesn't work like that...
what in the world? Itachi outright told kakashi, who had 3 tomoe at the time.. that if he had uchiha blood, he may have been able tobreak it...
It's specifically stated that a skilled uchiha with sharingan can break itachi's tsukyomi... No where is it stated that you need Mangekyou sharingan...
Cursed seal never happened, what so ever