[VS] Naruto and Minato vs Hashirama

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Reaction score
2,378
Location: Madara vs 5Kages
Restrictions: none
Conditions: Assume KCM Minato can replicate all KCM Naruto's feats except clones and FRS
Knowledge: Reputation

Father and son(Saviors of the world)
You must be registered for see images


VS

A God of Shinobi(Hashirama)

You must be registered for see images


They all start in base

Who wins? U_U
 

TheSages456

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
6,551
Reaction score
302
narutos biju mode is soloed like in the manga:
You must be registered for see images

naruto and minato are then promptly ended by this:
You must be registered for see images
 

Midday

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
4,824
Reaction score
559
narutos biju mode is soloed like in the manga:
You must be registered for see images

naruto and minato are then promptly ended by this:
You must be registered for see images

Oh please.

How was Naruto soloed by wood dragon? He got some chakra absorbed but once he realised what was going on he got out fairly easily with a shushin. With knowledge he'll just destroy it immediately like the Kyuubi.

Flower tree world isn't ending anything, it's not even a one shot technique, you can break out of it with just will power. Minato/Naruto can easily avoid it with their shushin and Minato can easily warp it way or redirect it in Hashirama's direction.

You've got the two fastest Shinobi in the manga and you're not even going to mention how Hashirama stops them. The way I see it, he's getting blitzed.

Naruto and Minato take this fairly easily.
 

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Reaction score
2,378
narutos biju mode is soloed like in the manga:
You must be registered for see images
Naruto fodderized that wood dragon with high speed movement alone later
You must be registered for see images

naruto and minato are then promptly ended by this:
You must be registered for see images
Jinton was capable to destroy the pollen. Naruto's TBB which are more powerful will deal with this easily. Actually Base Naruto was already capable to stop that kind of attack thanks to Kurama's chakra

On the other side, how does Hashirama deal with concentrated or multiple Bijuudamas? His only method shown to counter them was to catch them with the golem, but the hands of the golem are only large enough to catch small of them, not the large ones that Naruto is capable to use

Especially if Minato redirects them from unknown position on his spread markings(on the battlefield) catching Hashirama by surprise. How does he avoid not getting tag by Minato's chakra arms, and thus making all most powerful redirected moves on him deadly?
 

KidGamer65

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Reaction score
2,272
When Shinsuusenju comes out, they get turned to paste.
 

Midday

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
4,824
Reaction score
559
When Shinsuusenju comes out, they get turned to paste.

Naruto's km cloak was enough to tank the Juubi's nuke. It's attacks aren't getting through Minato's space time barrier and can easily be warped away.
 

TheSages456

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
6,551
Reaction score
302
Oh please.

How was Naruto soloed by wood dragon? He got some chakra absorbed but once he realised what was going on he got out fairly easily with a shushin. With knowledge he'll just destroy it immediately like the Kyuubi.
i said that narutos biju mode was soloed by the wood dragon not naruto. also, naruto never 'escaped'. the dragon finished operating after the kurama shroud was gone.
madara already gave naruto info on the wood dragon before he used it. no you cannot say that naruto can just bijudama the dragon when this didnt happen in canon.
Flower tree world isn't ending anything, it's not even a one shot technique, you can break out of it with just will power. Minato/Naruto can easily avoid it with their shushin and Minato can easily warp it way or redirect it in Hashirama's direction.
avoid, an entire battlefield worth of forest with shunshin? laughable. if they leave the battlefield, their disqualified. you're unrealistic scenario doesnt even work. the flower world is omnidirectional. the branches arent even connected. if minato tries to warp the forest, he is only warping one branch at a time.(its not like he would even try this stupid tactic anyway.)
You've got the two fastest Shinobi in the manga and you're not even going to mention how Hashirama stops them. The way I see it, he's getting blitzed.
naruto hasnt blitzed a single top tier shinobi in the manga yet he magically blitzes hashirama who is madaras physical equal and he effortlessly destroyed naruto in cqc. minato needs tags to use ftg and you would really be exaggerating to say that he can throw a kunai directly at hashirama through tons of forest.
@bold- the way you see it isnt how the manga implies it would go down therefore, the way you see it going down is nothing more than your worthless opinion.
Naruto and Minato take this fairly easily.
nah, hashirama godstomps in base.
 

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Reaction score
2,378
When Shinsuusenju comes out, they get turned to paste.
Last time i checked the thing that almost turned to paste against far weaker Bijuudamas than what Naruto is capable to produce was Shinsuusenju U_U
 

TheSages456

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
6,551
Reaction score
302
Naruto fodderized that wood dragon with high speed movement alone later
You must be registered for see images
how did naruto fodderize the dragon when he couldnt even destroy it. all i see is his kurama avatar being robbed from him then he is forced to fight in human form for a short period of time.
Jinton was capable to destroy the pollen. Naruto's TBB which are more powerful will deal with this easily. Actually Base Naruto was already capable to stop that kind of attack thanks to Kurama's chakra
the kurama avatar is subjugated by the mokuryu, then the flower world is used. its not like the charge time for bijudama has been shown to be as fast as hashiramas forest creation anyway. all of narutos bijudama are caught.
On the other side, how does Hashirama deal with concentrated or multiple Bijuudamas? His only method shown to counter them was to catch them with the golem, but the hands of the golem are only large enough to catch small of them, not the large ones that Naruto is capable to use
you do realize that hashirama overpowered about a dozen bijudamas from a stronger kyuubi infused with madaras PS blades right? saying naruto has anything close to that in power is fanfiction.
@bold- what are you even talking about? narutos bijudamas are the kyuubis bijudama. hashirama already countered them.
hashirama easily counters multiple bijudamas by using 5 mokuton hands to catch them and smash them back into naruto.
Especially if Minato redirects them from unknown position on his spread markings(on the battlefield) catching Hashirama by surprise. How does he avoid not getting tag by Minato's chakra arms, and thus making all most powerful redirected moves on him deadly?
he doesnt get tagged by minato if he doesnt try to fight him up close. its not like hashirama is helpless in cqc either. he easily clashed with madara who easily intercepted and bested BM naruto in cqc.
 

Midday

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
4,824
Reaction score
559
i said that narutos biju mode was soloed by the wood dragon not naruto. also, naruto never 'escaped'. the dragon finished operating after the kurama shroud was gone.
madara already gave naruto info on the wood dragon before he used it. no you cannot say that naruto can just bijudama the dragon when this didnt happen in canon.

What was absorbed was some of his chakra in fox form which he left half way through. He was still in bijuu mode afterwards but not in beast form because he didn't need it. Don't forget Naruto's chakra turned that wood dragon into a forest after he busted out of it. Common sense tells me Naruto wont sit there and let the dragon absorb his chakra after experiencing it once, destroying it or escaping out quicker makes sense.

avoid, an entire battlefield worth of forest with shunshin? laughable. if they leave the battlefield, their disqualified. you're unrealistic scenario doesnt even work. the flower world is omnidirectional. the branches arent even connected. if minato tries to warp the forest, he is only warping one branch at a time.(its not like he would even try this stupid tactic anyway.)

Minato's base speed is enough to drop a Kunai by the Ocean and drop 4 Kunai around the juubi which is above the size of a Mountain in the same time it took the remaining Hokage to catch up. Km speed is faster. That forest is getting warped just like he did the 9 tails.


naruto hasnt blitzed a single top tier shinobi in the manga yet he magically blitzes hashirama who is madaras physical equal and he effortlessly destroyed naruto in cqc. minato needs tags to use ftg and you would really be exaggerating to say that he can throw a kunai directly at hashirama through tons of forest.
@bold- the way you see it isnt how the manga implies it would go down therefore, the way you see it going down is nothing more than your worthless opinion.

Funny I remember Naruto blitzing Kisame first try with his speed, I also remember Madara getting blitzed by Lee who is slower than both Naruto and Minato. Minato base speed is fast enough if Kcm enhances his speed like it did Naruto who was average, he can run through that forest easily he doesn't need to throw anything.

nah, hashirama godstomps in base.

You must be registered for see images
 

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Reaction score
2,378
how did naruto fodderize the dragon when he couldnt even destroy it. all i see is his kurama avatar being robbed from him then he is forced to fight in human form for a short period of time.
It got destroyed. Proof of it is that we don't even see the wood dragon again after that. Naruto has too much speed, raw power(Bijuudamas) for the wood dragon to be capable to handle

the kurama avatar is subjugated by the mokuryu, then the flower world is used. its not like the charge time for bijudama has been shown to be as fast as hashiramas forest creation anyway. all of narutos bijudama are caught.
No the mokuryu is restricting nothing like i've stated above. It would be destroyed easily. Don't also forget it's a 2vs1 here. Minato would be there to take care of Hashirama if he doesn't pay attention. With his unsurpassed shunshin, plus instant teleportation from unknown positions on his markings, Hashirama would be blitzed anytime soon. The charge time of the Bijuudama is variable depending on the power you want to put in it. It can be released very fast if you feel the need. Here for example, he charged it near instantly:
You must be registered for see images


The one who should worry about how to counter here would be Hashirama, since he doesn't possess attacks capable to catch Bijuudamas of this size, especially when they are coming from unknown positions(redirected by Minato on his markings), and also have to worry about Minato who could appear next to him and finish him anytime soon

you do realize that hashirama overpowered about a dozen bijudamas from a stronger kyuubi infused with madaras PS blades right? saying naruto has anything close to that in power is fanfiction.
Those Bijuudamas were small:

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images


Nothing in comparison to this:

You must be registered for see images


Hashirama has not shown the capacity to counter such a Bijuudama. Infact when you re-read the fight, you realise that Madara didn't fight with a lot of intelligence. The small Bijuudamas were crushing Shinsuusenju. If Madara was smart, he would have avoided close range and attack with long range Bijuudamas. He entered close range, which makes it easier for Hashirama's Shinsuusenju to tank at most as it could and crush Madara's PS rapidely with the rest of its hands

he doesnt get tagged by minato if he doesnt try to fight him up close. its not like hashirama is helpless in cqc either. he easily clashed with madara who easily intercepted and bested BM naruto in cqc.
You don't get it. Minato has chakra arms, so he can use it in mid-long range as well. So Hashirama would have to pay attention to avoid the chakra arms while fighting to avoid getting tag, and that's when he is fighting in a situation with no knowledge at all from the start. With his large attacks like Shinsuusenju, because of the size, it could easily be tag, making it easier to redirect Bijuudamas or other powerful attacks inside the summoning technique and thus destroying it with Hashirama included
 

TheSages456

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
6,551
Reaction score
302
What was absorbed was some of his chakra in fox form which he left half way through. He was still in bijuu mode afterwards but not in beast form because he didn't need it. Don't forget Naruto's chakra turned that wood dragon into a forest after he busted out of it. Common sense tells me Naruto wont sit there and let the dragon absorb his chakra after experiencing it once, destroying it or escaping out quicker makes sense.
no, naruto didnt revert back to human form from tailed beast mode because he didnt need it, he reverted because the dragon absorbed his chakra cloak.
the wood dragon started turning into a forest before it even absorbed the full kurama avatar. for the last time, naruto didnt escape from the wood dragon. it wasnt even operating after it turned into a forest.:
You must be registered for see images

of course, i couldnt expect you to make your arguments to fit the manga. all you do is make excuses for the shortcomings of your favorite characters. you cant even look at obvious factors for 50% kurama being completely bound unlike 100% kurama like 50% kurama being smaller and easier to scale than yin/yang kurama.

Minato's base speed is enough to drop a Kunai by the Ocean and drop 4 Kunai around the juubi which is above the size of a Mountain in the same time it took the remaining Hokage to catch up. Km speed is faster. That forest is getting warped just like he did the 9 tails.
so what? its not like he did this in the midst of battle. he set everything up before he came on the scene. in other words, he had all the time in the world to set everything up. getting to the battlefield faster than the other hokages is the only valid feat you can get out of that situation. no, minato cant warp an omnidirectional forest in which the branches arent connected for him to be able to warp a whole forest at once. its not like he would try this anyway.


Funny I remember Naruto blitzing Kisame first try with his speed, I also remember Madara getting blitzed by Lee who is slower than both Naruto and Minato. Minato base speed is fast enough if Kcm enhances his speed like it did Naruto who was average, he can run through that forest easily he doesn't need to throw anything.
so your argument is basically, "naruto and minato are fast so they blitz hashirama". this doesnt even take into account hashiramas speed feats or his reactions which you conveniently ignore.
hashirama ran across a mountain range and outran the nine tails who was noted to be fast by sm naruto who is a sensor and he couldnt even physically react. hashiramas reaction speed allows him to keep up with the complete nine tails and madara casually. kisame isnt anywhere near the current top tiers in strength. i dont know why you bring him up. naruto hasnt blitzed god tiers but he magically does it here due to your fanboyism right?
minato wont run through the forest. he has never shown speed which imples that he can do such.


You must be registered for see images
you must be directing this to yourself because things like "minato and naruto shitblitzing hashirama", "minato and naruto running out of hashiramas forest", "minato warping away and omnidirectinal forest" are pure fanwank.
 
Last edited:

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Reaction score
2,378
@TheSages456 how does Hashirama even avoid a blitz when he is fighting the fastest characters in the manga at the same f*cking time? Base Minato's shunshin speed and reflexes are already enormous. Adding KCM, will only increase the gap that already exists in speed between him and Hashirama. Hashirama would be like a turtle normally. And remember that one marking is enough to end the fight. With his large attacks, it's easy for Minato to land a hit especially with mid-long range chakra arms in this case(and thus marking them), which would put Hashirama in difficulties. If needed, he can send Shinsuusenju entirely out of the battlefield since he has shown to be able to warp out large attacks that covers around the same size if not bigger like Juubi's Bijuudama. He obviously also gets durability feats that offers this mode. They also have negative sensing abilities, which would make any surprise attack meaningless. At the same f*cking time, he would have to worry about almost instantaneous shunshin speed in Bijuu-mode, large Bijuudamas he can't catch, especially coming from invisible zones on the battlefield.

How exactly does Hashirama handle all that?
 

Midday

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
4,824
Reaction score
559
no, naruto didnt revert back to human form from tailed beast mode because he didnt need it, he reverted because the dragon absorbed his chakra cloak.
the wood dragon started turning into a forest before it even absorbed the full kurama avatar. for the last time, naruto didnt escape from the wood dragon. it wasnt even operating after it turned into a forest.:
You must be registered for see images

He left the beast cloak in the middle of it being absobed, he did that to save Kakashi and Bee. The full avatar was not absorbed allowing Naruto to escape which you seem to think. . He could have used speed to get out at any time.


of course, i couldnt expect you to make your arguments to fit the manga. all you do is make excuses for the shortcomings of your favorite characters. you cant even look at obvious factors for 50% kurama being completely bound unlike 100% kurama like 50% kurama being smaller and easier to scale than yin/yang kurama.

Oh please Sage, this is a joke coming from you who can't even give a reasonable explanation how Hashirama avoids getting blitzed besides "he doesn't because he's Hashirama". His cloak was getting absorbed and he left half way through, how is that completely bound? He could easily do the same as the 9 tails did and hit it with a tbb or destroy it with clones.

so what? its not like he did this in the midst of battle. he set everything up before he came on the scene. in other words, he had all the time in the world to set everything up. getting to the battlefield faster than the other hokages is the only valid feat you can get out of that situation. no, minato cant warp an omnidirectional forest in which the branches arent connected for him to be able to warp a whole forest at once. its not like he would try this anyway.

It seems you didn't understand. It was to emphasise how fast Minato's base speed is, in the middle of battle or not is irrelevant. In the short time it took for the Hokages to catch up he was able to circle around the Juubi which is the size of mountains and drop a Kunai by an Ocean. That's his base speed.

Chakra mode brought an average ninja when it comes to speed to the fastest in the series up until Minato got it. If Minato's cloak is anything like Naruto, there's nothing that can stop him at that speed. How about warping that big bulb in the middle connecting the whole forest? Think more.

so your argument is basically, "naruto and minato are fast so they blitz hashirama". this doesnt even take into account hashiramas speed feats or his reactions which you conveniently ignore.
hashirama ran across a mountain range and outran the nine tails who was noted to be fast by sm naruto who is a sensor and he couldnt even physically react. hashiramas reaction speed allows him to keep up with the complete nine tails and madara casually. kisame isnt anywhere near the current top tiers in strength. i dont know why you bring him up. naruto hasnt blitzed god tiers but he magically does it here due to your fanboyism right?
minato wont run through the forest. he has never shown speed which imples that he can do such.

It's a fair arguement, just like Saying Ay would blitz Tsunade. I've taken into account Hashirama's reactions and feats and they're nowhere near good enough to avoid Naruto and Minato's speed. All that in the 2nd bold is irrelevant because it's not even close to their speed. Doesn't matter if Kisame is not at the very top tier, he's an s rank ninja, strength has nothing to do with how well a character can react. You actually came out with that crap that Hashirama was running across mountain range's and you're telling me Minato can't get through that little forest?

you must be directing this to yourself because things like "minato and naruto shitblitzing hashirama", "minato and naruto running out of hashiramas forest", "minato warping away and omnidirectinal forest" are pure fanwank.

Get over yourself, you haven't proven Hashirama is able to deal with their speed besides he's a top tier so he can't get blitzed. Do I have to remind you that Edo Madara was blitzed by Lee..
 
Last edited:

TheSages456

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
6,551
Reaction score
302
It got destroyed. Proof of it is that we don't even see the wood dragon again after that. Naruto has too much speed, raw power(Bijuudamas) for the wood dragon to be capable to handle
we dont see the wood dragon again because it turned into a forest. all of what you mentioned played no role against the mokuryu in the manga.
No the mokuryu is restricting nothing like i've stated above. It would be destroyed easily. Don't also forget it's a 2vs1 here. Minato would be there to take care of Hashirama if he doesn't pay attention. With his unsurpassed shunshin, plus instant teleportation from unknown positions on his markings, Hashirama would be blitzed anytime soon. The charge time of the Bijuudama is variable depending on the power you want to put in it. It can be released very fast if you feel the need. Here for example, he charged it near instantly:
You must be registered for see images
naruto destroys the mokuryu with bijudama just like he did in the manga right? it restricted naruto in the manga so yes it is restricting him. how does minato blitz hashirama when he is put to sleep by the flower world?

The one who should worry about how to counter here would be Hashirama, since he doesn't possess attacks capable to catch Bijuudamas of this size, especially when they are coming from unknown positions(redirected by Minato on his markings), and also have to worry about Minato who could appear next to him and finish him anytime soon
@bold-minato needs tags to teleport things to a certain place. he wont get a tag anwhere near hashirama so this cant work.
do you know how ftg works? minato cant get a tag near hashirama so he cant blitz him. period.

Those Bijuudamas were small:

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images


Nothing in comparison to this:

You must be registered for see images
you're obviously disregarding the 2x size difference between kurama at VOTE and kurama after minato sealed its yin chakra away.
the blast from madaras bijudama/PS combo made an explosion many times larger than narutos bijudama.
this doesnt matter anyway. if naruto stands there charging up a mega bijudama which can be tanked by a wood dome anyway, hashirama merely interrupts him by dropping gates on him.
Hashirama has not shown the capacity to counter such a Bijuudama. Infact when you re-read the fight, you realise that Madara didn't fight with a lot of intelligence. The small Bijuudamas were crushing Shinsuusenju. If Madara was smart, he would have avoided close range and attack with long range Bijuudamas. He entered close range, which makes it easier for Hashirama's Shinsuusenju to tank at most as it could and crush Madara's PS rapidely with the rest of its hands
the thousand arms can stretch many times longer than the body of shinsuusenju itself and we all know how small the kyuubi is compared to it. madara wasnt getting out of that situation without his susano getting busted no matter what he did. the bijudamas did nothing to shinsuusenju. you conveniently ignore the fact that madara didnt just fire off regular bijudamas. the PS blades inside them destroyed the arms that they clashed with.

You don't get it. Minato has chakra arms, so he can use it in mid-long range as well. So Hashirama would have to pay attention to avoid the chakra arms while fighting to avoid getting tag, and that's when he is fighting in a situation with no knowledge at all from the start. With his large attacks like Shinsuusenju, because of the size, it could easily be tag, making it easier to redirect Bijuudamas or other powerful attacks inside the summoning technique and thus destroying it with Hashirama included
no minato cant fight at hashiramas range. i need a scan of at least kcm naruto stretching a chakra arm across an area as big as the flower world to make your claim believable. you are basically using a no limits fallacy saying that chakra arms can stretch for miles when they have never shown this.
hashirama has knowledge on naruto automatically since he is the kyuubis jinchuriki and hashirama already countered the kyuubi and he has knowledge on minatos powers like hiraishin since he already fought alongside a hiraishin user which is tobirama.
1. hashirama doesnt need shinsuusenju,
2. if he did use it, this becomes a no diff slaughter. each of the 1000 hands on its back is about mountain size in length. if it punches using all of its hands at once, that is the equivalent to 1000 mountain busters packed into one attack.
minato cant tag shinsuusenju and he cant warp things inside of it.





i will take my leave from this thread now. you are clearly not grasping literary intent. kishi wouldnt have made different characters call hashirama "God of Shinobi" in the presence of minato multiple times and with naruto on the battlefield if these 2 could just easily beat him.
 
Last edited:

Strict

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
4,166
Reaction score
509
Nothing in comparison to this:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images


And created is a blast that is larger than the one who was created when the Bijuudama of Naruto clashed with the one of the 5 other Bijuu.

You must be registered for see images


Yet, after taking this barrage of Bijuudamas, combined with the perfect Susanoo's swords, the Shinsuusenju was still standing, picked up Kyuubi at its full form like a cat and put it asleep.
 
Last edited:

Sennin of Logic

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
8,874
Reaction score
906
Naruto alone would give Hashirama trouble. I could give a good argument on how Naruto could win (could not would). Adding Minato guarantees victory. With Naruto attacking, and Minato supporting and preventing Hashirama form going into sage mode, this one goes to team 1.
 
Top