[Theory] Hypothesizing future power-ups (NS) and Debunking the Elder-Younger Son Parallel

[Transcendence]

Awesome theory *****

Thanks man!

 

[voids]

I see what you mean as well. But for us to compare we need to know all of Tsunade's multipliers and at what strength she punches at without any enhancements. I still think Tsunade at this point though.

Think of it like this:

Naruto base punching power: 20

Sage Mode - x 3

BM x 5

20 X 15 = 300 strength

Let's assume at the peak of Susanoo it's Defenses are around 400, it being the strongest defense in the manga.

For Tsunade to break it with a punch, her strength exceeds the defenses because of the power of her incoming force.

So Naruto could do some damage, but it would be mitigated for the most part by Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo.

Hmm yes, I would agree on that, however what happens if naruto uses a rasengan or a TBB while in that form? It would most likely move far above the strength of naruto's punch, would it not? We know sage mode can increase the power of attacks such as the rasengan, therefore, can the power of a TBB not be amplified to near enough the same extent?

 

[Transcendence]

Hmm yes, I would agree on that, however what happens if naruto uses a rasengan or a TBB while in that form? It would most likely move far above the strength of naruto's punch, would it not? We know sage mode can increase the power of attacks such as the rasengan, therefore, can the power of a TBB not be amplified to near enough the same extent?

Hmm, that's a good question. Maybe the scaling of the Susanoo defense should be higher, because it was able to with stand a TBB from Naruto...

But then again this if full chakra Naruto with Sage Mode amplifying his attacks. We can debate about this for a while lol =D

 

[BigGuns Reloaded]

[/B]

Bold 1: There is a plethora of evidence to suggest he is an Uzumaki as opposed to something as generic as *Two bloodlines in one*

Bold 2: You have absolutely no proof and that is a baseless assumption. How could a normal human be born with the eyes of the progenitor god of the world?

Bold 3: It is a hypothesis based on an assumption that an eternal light (Partially synonymous with infinite) would mitigate the downfall of Izanagi.

Bold 4: It is a metaphorical embodiment. As an Uchiha he inherently had the curse of hatred but he chose to use his brother's will which is akin to the Will of Fire; therefore making him an embodiment of both sons.

sealing jutsu dont make u uzimaki
how can the sage b uzimaki and not his sons????
how can only 1 son be related to the uzimaki on his dads side but his brother from the same dude is not???

see how stupid that sounds no evidence proves he is one

*go back to when jiraiya 1st intro'ed the sage

now u must be a hardcore fanboy or slow fact madara has it! fact he was near death.
sharingan is awakened how? so if the sharingan evolves into it by the same means its awakened is it not possible the same circumstances led to the sage awakening his? *the manga states he got them in a time of despair*
Fact the juubi was already around ****ing shit up nobody could stop it until the sage did.
just like u say how can a "normal human" do the ****ing feat u claim without any special power? by your pathetic logic any fodder can seal the juubi right now****
the sage is the origin of the senju and uchiha madara is the product u get when reuniting them and clearly the juubi isnt sealed inside of him so how did he get the rinnegan?

think about that... sage > 2 clans > rinnegan/ madara > 2 clans > rinnegan + not a juubi host why would the sage have be a host if clearly madara doesnt?

It seems u can't look at the pieces and put them together
ask your self does base sharingan go blind?...... no?.... ok
what type of eye was the jutsu done with?........ base sharingan?....... ok! what happened after its use?..... lost light? woah!
what happened when inazami was used with a ms? same thing?...... ok
see the trend?
if u use a jutsu what is its cost? whateva fuels it. but in this case the cost is the eye itself its not going blind the eye becomes sealed
still dont get huh? tsunade's jutsu eats away her life in the long run ms users go blind after awhile rds is suicide rinne tensi is likely suicide aswell this is the price they pay to use such jutsu.
ems ms bs doesn't matter the cost of such a jutsu takes its toll on the eye itself

u need to look at all this and think don't let other peoples imagination led u down a roadway of misconceptions and false info

if base

 

[Transcendence]

I'm not even going to bother to reply to that illiterate wall of text. Look at any of Derp Obito's theories and it clearly leads to the Sage being an Uzumaki rather than the convoluted illusion you think he is.

 

[Transcendence]

It was a long read, but enjoyable and well worth the time. While it may have been entertaining and well-posed, I must point out that this Rinnegan business raises the question of continuity. My memory may not serve me so well, so if I'm wrong please correct me and reference the manga chapter(s) and page(s) that apply.

Madara acquired the Rinnegan due to the combination of Senju DNA and his own, correct?

"But people will say that Naruto needs Uchiha DNA/Eyes. Well… all the evidence leads us to believe the Sage gained the Rinnegan AFTER he sealed the Juubi within him. Naruto has gained nearly the entire collection of the Juubi’s collective pieces, minus the 8 Tails (The silhouette showed us the 1-tail, so it may be a retcon and he has the 1 tails chakra as well). Once Naruto gains it, like Derp has hypothesized, Rikudou’s chakra essence will appear in Naruto’s psyche. He will speak with Naruto, we will learn his back story and how to “defeat” the Juubi. When Naruto comes out of it, he will gain the Rinnegan and the ability to use Yin-Yang release to aid in splitting the Juubi (Creation of all things is the highest variant of Yin-Yang release)"

With regard to the bolded portion:
Yes, I am one of those who believe the Rinnegan necessitates complete DNA from the SO6P or somehow awakening it by one's own merits. It is said that the SO6P was capable of manipulating all five forms of chakra release; Naruto can only use wind at the moment (so far as I'm aware). I'm not sure if he's reached the level at which his own merits will awaken this doujutsu. He'd have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak... and for Naruto, that just doesn't seem likely.

With regard to the underlined portion:
You are straight up committing the fallatious and treacherous act of Begging the Question. You state that there is evidence that the Rinnegan was awakened after the SO6P's quarrel with the juubi, and yet you present none of it. Please shed some light on this, because I looked for evidence (although I only spent 15-20 minutes hastily scanning naruto-wiki and relevant manga chapters) and found none. I'd actually love to be wrong on this one, because that would set me at ease with your hypothesis and cause me to insist that it is a valid and note-worthy guess.

With regard to that which follows the underlined portion:
The SO6P stated that there would come a day when all of the tailed beasts would again become one. As it is right now, we are not quite there yet in the story. Sure, the juubi has some of the chakra from both Kurama and Gyuki, but the nine beasts are not yet one, so the "prophecy" of the SO6P has not been completely fulfilled. If the Sage's words shine true, then it would be pointless to split the juubi until that has come to fruition. Otherwise, bringing the other seven tailed beasts together would've been a waste of time -- sort of. Is it possible that splitting up the juubi would serve as a good temporary fix? Yes. Could the "prophecy" still be fulfilled by allowing the nine beasts to reunite after the war and in accordance with Naruto's will? Maybe. The problem is this: what's the damn point of running in circles dodging the words of the SO6P only to fulfill them later? (rhetoric heavily implied)


I did like the hypothesis overall. It just requires some tune-ups and revaluation. 4/5 rating... which is a significantly better rating than other 'theories' *scoffs* that I've read.

As promised, I will reply and try to explain myself.

First off here's a post by Derp Obito about the eye itself: That's highly improbable, the Rinnegan is the Eye of Samsara, the Eye of Suffering. Since he suffered to fight and seal the Juubi inside him. If the Sage was born with the Rinnegan then the Eye would be called the Eye of Bodhisattva aka the Eye of the Sage, if Rikudou acquired the Rinnegan through meditation and learning then it would be called the Eye of Nirvana aka the Eye of Enlightenment. So it is a logical certainty that the Rinnegan came from the Juubi.

This was to debunk the theory that the Sage of the Six Paths was born with the Rinnegan. It is illogical to assume he was born with the eye of the Progenitor of the World, seeing as he only became a Divine God, AFTER he sealed the Juubi in him.

My premise therefore lies in the fact he gained the Rinnegan because of the influence the Juubi's chakra had on his body, and it mutated his eyes. So I hypothesize, on top of the foreshadowing from 629, that if someone were to gain the collective amount of chakra that comprise the Juubi (The Bijuu's like Naruto go) they would be able to awaken the Rinnegan; hence the reason why I say Naruto would get it.

Madara reverse engineered the two brother bloodline, which is the other logical way of getting it. One brother represents Yang, the other Yin. By applying the Yang portion to the Yin's eyes, it mutates the eyes into the Rinnegan, successfully reverse engineering the original bloodlines. It is also highly probably that the powers both brothers obtained were more so in credit to the Juubi rather than their father; Mokuton being the peak of the Younger Son (Juubi's body), and EMS being the peak of the Elder Son (Juubi's eye). Therefore logically, like Madara did, you can reverse engineer the two bloodlines to comprise what the Juubi's influence had on the brothers.

Hope this covers that.

 

[Versatile jutsu]

disagree with part of comparing narusasu power

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Why do other people insist that Naruto and Sasuke's powers should be in equilibrium? Goku and Vegeta weren't equals, Goku>Vegeta, but they worked together to defeat their enemy, they need not be equals in power, only equals in resolve

 

[Transcendence]

sealing jutsu dont make u uzimaki
how can the sage b uzimaki and not his sons????
how can only 1 son be related to the uzimaki on his dads side but his brother from the same dude is not???

see how stupid that sounds no evidence proves he is one

*go back to when jiraiya 1st intro'ed the sage

now u must be a hardcore fanboy or slow fact madara has it! fact he was near death.
sharingan is awakened how? so if the sharingan evolves into it by the same means its awakened is it not possible the same circumstances led to the sage awakening his? *the manga states he got them in a time of despair*
Fact the juubi was already around ****ing shit up nobody could stop it until the sage did.
just like u say how can a "normal human" do the ****ing feat u claim without any special power? by your pathetic logic any fodder can seal the juubi right now****
the sage is the origin of the senju and uchiha madara is the product u get when reuniting them and clearly the juubi isnt sealed inside of him so how did he get the rinnegan?

think about that... sage > 2 clans > rinnegan/ madara > 2 clans > rinnegan + not a juubi host why would the sage have be a host if clearly madara doesnt?

It seems u can't look at the pieces and put them together
ask your self does base sharingan go blind?...... no?.... ok
what type of eye was the jutsu done with?........ base sharingan?....... ok! what happened after its use?..... lost light? woah!
what happened when inazami was used with a ms? same thing?...... ok
see the trend?
if u use a jutsu what is its cost? whateva fuels it. but in this case the cost is the eye itself its not going blind the eye becomes sealed
still dont get huh? tsunade's jutsu eats away her life in the long run ms users go blind after awhile rds is suicide rinne tensi is likely suicide aswell this is the price they pay to use such jutsu.
ems ms bs doesn't matter the cost of such a jutsu takes its toll on the eye itself

u need to look at all this and think don't let other peoples imagination led u down a roadway of misconceptions and false info

if base

Fine.. I'm bored and I'll respond.

First off, all of your post is baseless assumptions with no manga scans, whereas this threads premise actually has manga scans.

Bold 1: His sons were the progenitors of the Senju and Uchiha clan, and there is a common linkage between them and the Uzumaki clan. It is already established that they are "distantly related" not descendants, therefore the common link has to be far back, ala Rikudou Sennin.

Bold 2: It has already been hypothesized that the Uchiha are related to the Uzumaki the same way that the Senju are. Sasuke an Uchiha was needed to unseal an Uzumaki sealing tech... At the Naka shrine. See where I'm going? And more likely than not, the Uzumaki sympathized the Younger Sons descendants and claimed relations with them as opposed to the tyrannical views of the Elder Son.

Bold 3: It doesn't state that anywhere. It states that he wielded the Rinnegan but not because the World was in despair... Again more baseless assumptions. You've lost all your credibility already.

Bold 4: Hence why he is strongly hypothesized to be an Uzumaki... Uzumaki's are the best Sealers in the manga. The hardest to seal essence is the Juubi. With basic logic, it dictates the Sage was an Uzumaki. And please explain to me how a normal human could be born with the eyes of the God of Narutoverse... You can't so again, no merit whatsoever.

Bold 5: The hypothesis of Perfect Izanagi is based on my assumption that we have never seen an EMS user use the technique, yet when Itachi, one of the most knowledgeable people in the manga was explaining the EMS, stated it grants an eternal light, again using basic logic, I hypothesized that an EMS user would not go blind after the use of Izanagi, therefore perfecting the technique itself.


All of your thoughts in this post have no manga proof and are all your baseless assumptions. Come back with proper grammar, and manga scans and then I'll consider having a proper debate with you.

 

[voids]

Hmm, that's a good question. Maybe the scaling of the Susanoo defense should be higher, because it was able to with stand a TBB from Naruto...

But then again this if full chakra Naruto with Sage Mode amplifying his attacks. We can debate about this for a while lol =D

Haha we could! I'm just basing this assumption from jiraiya, who we see have the massive rasengan while in sage mode. Now if that rasengan is at least 2-3 times stronger, then this should be applied to the TBB. For the rasengan is based off the TBB, therefore, the same principles should apply. Although the TBB uses different chakra completely compared to the rasengan, while also have to have a certain ration, though I don't know if that would effect it in any way.

 

[Transcendence]

disagree with part of comparing narusasu power

How so?

The greatest attack and defense combination in the manga is Perfect Susanoo.

No matter the power that puts Sasuke ahead of Naruto in that category, hence why I said Perfect Susanoo > Bijuu Sage Mode

Rinnegan > ESD because as the reincarnation of the S06P, he's bound to have them but ESD will be god like as well, just a bit under Rinnegan.

Izanagi will completely bail out Sasuke against Naruto's inherent speed and reflexes.

Therefore this makes them relatively equal, even though this equilibrium that people keep preaching on about was completely debunked when Naruto was foreshadowed to be the next Sage.

 

[Transcendence]

Why do other people insist that Naruto and Sasuke's powers should be in equilibrium? Goku and Vegeta weren't equals, Goku>Vegeta, but they worked together to defeat their enemy, they need not be equals in power, only equals in resolve

That equilibrium doesn't exist anymore and ceased to exist when Naruto was regarded as "the one the old man was talking about" by the Bijuu's, but people will regress that statement, but when it proves true I will laugh maniacally for days on end.

 

[Transcendence]

Haha we could! I'm just basing this assumption from jiraiya, who we see have the massive rasengan while in sage mode. Now if that rasengan is at least 2-3 times stronger, then this should be applied to the TBB. For the rasengan is based off the TBB, therefore, the same principles should apply. Although the TBB uses different chakra completely compared to the rasengan, while also have to have a certain ration, though I don't know if that would effect it in any way.

That's a legitimate assumption then. I don't think the ratio of chakra would be affected like when Naruto was trying to do the Mini-Tailed Beast Ball in KCM, because now he has Kurama's help to do it, which vastly speeds up the process.

Now that I think about it... If those principles apply then holy... A full powered Kurama TBB enhanced by Sage Mode. Lord...

 

[BigGuns Reloaded]

I'm not even going to bother to reply to that illiterate wall of text. Look at any of Derp Obito's theories and it clearly leads to the Sage being an Uzumaki rather than the convoluted illusion you think he is.

if u can't read a wall of text you're clearly the illiterate jackass here

ever heard books?
Magazines?
any form of literary work?

shit how dumb are u i put spaces in between!

what u need it in poem format with stanzas or something?

complain about grammar punctuation's or even spelling but u dumbass u looking at the next man's "theories" and going off that shm follower and a moron "AT THE SAME DAME TIME!"

 

[Rokudaime Hokage Naruto]

Perfect Susanoo is the best defense in the series bar none; no way it'll be broken even by that.

Naruto's sage mode is stronger than Tsunade, and your saying Tsunade can punch through Susanoo.

Also your saying naruto sage beast mode can't create a Bijuu-dama to match Tsunade's punches?

Yeah sorry thats the only thing wrong with your thread otherwise its genius.

 

[BigGuns Reloaded]

Fine.. I'm bored and I'll respond.

First off, all of your post is baseless assumptions with no manga scans, whereas this threads premise actually has manga scans.

Bold 1: His sons were the progenitors of the Senju and Uchiha clan, and there is a common linkage between them and the Uzumaki clan. It is already established that they are "distantly related" not descendants, therefore the common link has to be far back, ala Rikudou Sennin.

Bold 2: It has already been hypothesized that the Uchiha are related to the Uzumaki the same way that the Senju are. Sasuke an Uchiha was needed to unseal an Uzumaki sealing tech... At the Naka shrine. See where I'm going? And more likely than not, the Uzumaki sympathized the Younger Sons descendants and claimed relations with them as opposed to the tyrannical views of the Elder Son.

Bold 3: It doesn't state that anywhere. It states that he wielded the Rinnegan but not because the World was in despair... Again more baseless assumptions. You've lost all your credibility already.

Bold 4: Hence why he is strongly hypothesized to be an Uzumaki... Uzumaki's are the best Sealers in the manga. The hardest to seal essence is the Juubi. With basic logic, it dictates the Sage was an Uzumaki. And please explain to me how a normal human could be born with the eyes of the God of Narutoverse... You can't so again, no merit whatsoever.

Bold 5: The hypothesis of Perfect Izanagi is based on my assumption that we have never seen an EMS user use the technique, yet when Itachi, one of the most knowledgeable people in the manga was explaining the EMS, stated it grants an eternal light, again using basic logic, I hypothesized that an EMS user would not go blind after the use of Izanagi, therefore perfecting the technique itself.


All of your thoughts in this post have no manga proof and are all your baseless assumptions. Come back with proper grammar, and manga scans and then I'll consider having a proper debate with you.

dumbass little boy your opinion means nothing
show me where it says the uchiha are related to the uzimaki... my cousin's cousins aren't my cousins and hypothesized??? lmao by who??? **** that when since a hypothesis been solid without a experiment ? u are a moron

You must be registered for see images

2. what did the shrine do? nothing dumb dumb it wasn't even in the plan

You must be registered for see images

this is pointless u are basing things off of theories this was too easy i could just throw pages at u but u too set in your idiocy to reevaluate the non-sense u spew

 

[ThilinaC]

Nice theory mate,keep up the good work
rep added as a thank you

 

[voids]

That's a legitimate assumption then. I don't think the ratio of chakra would be affected like when Naruto was trying to do the Mini-Tailed Beast Ball in KCM, because now he has Kurama's help to do it, which vastly speeds up the process.

Now that I think about it... If those principles apply then holy... A full powered Kurama TBB enhanced by Sage Mode. Lord...

It may be on a level of the juubi's TBB, but I myself quite doubt that, but it's always plausible. At the least it should be able to somewhat damage the juubi to some extent. Though what we can agree on is that Naruto will definitely be able to merge the two modes. He could now use Ma and Pa to have an infinite source of nature Chakra, unless Kurama protests against it.

 

[amarusboobs]

Good Job, glad to be making theories with you soon.

 

[Cooh]

I don't think that Naruto will become the new so6p or at least not until Sasuke and Naruto have fought. Imho Naruto represents the body and Sasuke the eyes of the so6p. But still nice theory