Location:...In a Cave.( will change if neede)
Mindset:To kill
Knowledge: Manga Knowledge
Restrictions : Edo tensei, Kyuubi
Judges: Zexion333
Long-Haired Leaf Ninja
pateuvasiliu
note Madara is an edo but does not have the regeneration powers... just the chakra Boost
You will have 3 days for this debate .. extensions if necessary
No need to change the location. I can counter the cave at any point. Although you should restrict the Kyuubi.
Will compose my argument soon.
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Redrawing the maps
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Madara Uchiha has been hailed as the strongest Uchiha to ever have lived. Hes the only man to have ever awakened the Rinnegan that we know of other than the Sage. After being augmented with Mokuton when revived as an Edo Tensei, he has all three Kekei Genkai derived of the Sage. Madara will use these to the fullest effect to erase Kabuto.
Coutering Hydraphication:
Hydraphication has two weaknesses. Lighting Style and High Force attacks.
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was able to completely disrupt Suigetsu and leave him inactive for days. Even when Suigetsu was fully hydrafied and linked to a lake. Kabuto hasn't shown to be able to fully hydrafy or have a lake to connect to. Mountain busting attacks will be much more destructive against Kabuto.
Perfect Susano'O's Slash is completely undodgable to Kabuto and is strong enough to leave him inactive, giving Madara the win. Meteor Gives the same effect.
Using this method also counters Kabuto's Cave advantage. Activating Perfect Susano'O will destroy the cave and move the battle outside.
Countering Sound Genjutsu:
Genutsu can be countered by using Wood Clones. Madara can start off by using these and if Kabuto decides to use Tayuya's Genjutsu he can cross Genjutsu with his Bunshin and fre himself in the same fashion that Sasuke and Itachi did.
Wood Clones Also provide as massive front for offense and will keep Kabuto locked down and incapable of moving.
Countering White Rage:
White Rage can be countered in a myriad of ways. Madara can use Perfect Susano'O to get out of the AoE of white rage. Which will also be weaker due to the cave being destroyed by PS's activation and it beig less condensed.
Madara also has the option if using Wood Style: Deep Forest Creation. This will slam into the White Rage and disrupt it. It will also completely shield Madara from the effects.
No need to change the location. I can counter the cave at any point. Although you should restrict the Kyuubi.
Will compose my argument soon.
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Redrawing the maps
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Madara Uchiha has been hailed as the strongest Uchiha to ever have lived. Hes the only man to have ever awakened the Rinnegan that we know of other than the Sage. After being augmented with Mokuton when revived as an Edo Tensei, he has all three Kekei Genkai derived of the Sage. Madara will use these to the fullest effect to erase Kabuto.
Coutering Hydraphication:
Hydraphication has two weaknesses. Lighting Style and High Force attacks.
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was able to completely disrupt Suigetsu and leave him inactive for days. Even when Suigetsu was fully hydrafied and linked to a lake. Kabuto hasn't shown to be able to fully hydrafy or have a lake to connect to. Mountain busting attacks will be much more destructive against Kabuto.
Perfect Susano'O's Slash is completely undodgable to Kabuto and is strong enough to leave him inactive, giving Madara the win. Meteor Gives the same effect.
Using this method also counters Kabuto's Cave advantage. Activating Perfect Susano'O will destroy the cave and move the battle outside.
Countering Sound Genjutsu:
Genutsu can be countered by using Wood Clones. Madara can start off by using these and if Kabuto decides to use Tayuya's Genjutsu he can cross Genjutsu with his Bunshin and fre himself in the same fashion that Sasuke and Itachi did.
Wood Clones Also provide as massive front for offense and will keep Kabuto locked down and incapable of moving.
Countering White Rage:
White Rage can be countered in a myriad of ways. Madara can use Perfect Susano'O to get out of the AoE of white rage. Which will also be weaker due to the cave being destroyed by PS's activation and it beig less condensed.
Madara also has the option if using Wood Style: Deep Forest Creation. This will slam into the White Rage and disrupt it. It will also completely shield Madara from the effects.
Before I start my argument: To counter an attack wouldn't you have to do it in the situation? Your premises are showing that Madara has full knowledge (Which the OP does not say) and is countering before hand/before it happens.
Before I start my argument: To counter an attack wouldn't you have to do it in the situation? Your premises are showing that Madara has full knowledge (Which the OP does not say) and is countering before hand/before it happens.
After the "death" of Orochimaru, Kabuto wanted to continue his legacy by becoming just like him. By doing so he did everything in his research to become perfect. From there he has taken steps by steps to reach this perfection. Through research he has gain knowledge. He had went out of his way to become like a living Sage and also vast knowledge on those who once known has the "Shinobi Gods'". Eventually Kabuto was able to know alot about 1st Hokage and Madara.
Through Kabuto's Modifications on himself/his experiments he is now able to be on par with the "Gods of Shinobis". Some time in the Manga Kabuto foolishly claim that he has even modify Madara. Little did he know that Madara was already a step ahead of him with this modification. BUT little does Madara know that Kabuto still has some tricks up his selves to "Kryptonite" such an opponent like him.
With Madara now having Hashirama's cell all he needs to do is get close to him with a snake bite to end the battle:
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How can he get close to him you say? Well with Jutsu of course Access Sound Five tech:
Kabuto's attacks are mainly Trap-base attacks to corner his opponents:
1.) Jirobo: With Kabuto access to this guy he can change the terrace of the battle field with earth release. Creating Holes/Traps, and Walls. Its universally perfect to counter Madara attacks like fire release and especially Sasanoo.(except for PS slash). He also can do everything Jirobo has shown like shaking the ground to lose the opponents balance, Earth Dome, etc.
2.) Kidomaru: With Kabuto access to this guy he can manipulate chakra webs at will. This will be very useful immobilizing Madara attacks. This jutsu cannot be cut by normal means (reasonably PS slash can) it can even make PS movements useless by just sticking them on the under arm, legs and various of places that would make PS attacks dangerous. Sticking would render/reduce the attacks power. By normal means would Fire release do the trick once Madara is stuck with it. Since Sasuke and Itachi couldn't it implies that Blaze release will be enough to take care of it:
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(The Rest of the Jutsu you have already mention and will be on your post with a rebuttal)
No need to change the location. I can counter the cave at any point. Although you should restrict the Kyuubi.
Will compose my argument soon.
-----------------
Redrawing the maps
You must be registered for see images
Madara Uchiha has been hailed as the strongest Uchiha to ever have lived. Hes the only man to have ever awakened the Rinnegan that we know of other than the Sage. After being augmented with Mokuton when revived as an Edo Tensei, he has all three Kekei Genkai derived of the Sage. Madara will use these to the fullest effect to erase Kabuto.
Coutering Hydraphication:
Hydraphication has two weaknesses. Lighting Style and High Force attacks.
You must be registered for see links
was able to completely disrupt Suigetsu and leave him inactive for days. Even when Suigetsu was fully hydrafied and linked to a lake. Kabuto hasn't shown to be able to fully hydrafy or have a lake to connect to. Mountain busting attacks will be much more destructive against Kabuto.
Perfect Susano'O's Slash is completely undodgable to Kabuto and is strong enough to leave him inactive, giving Madara the win. Meteor Gives the same effect.
Using this method also counters Kabuto's Cave advantage. Activating Perfect Susano'O will destroy the cave and move the battle outside.
Countering Sound Genjutsu:
Genutsu can be countered by using Wood Clones. Madara can start off by using these and if Kabuto decides to use Tayuya's Genjutsu he can cross Genjutsu with his Bunshin and fre himself in the same fashion that Sasuke and Itachi did.
Wood Clones Also provide as massive front for offense and will keep Kabuto locked down and incapable of moving.
Countering White Rage:
White Rage can be countered in a myriad of ways. Madara can use Perfect Susano'O to get out of the AoE of white rage. Which will also be weaker due to the cave being destroyed by PS's activation and it beig less condensed.
Madara also has the option if using Wood Style: Deep Forest Creation. This will slam into the White Rage and disrupt it. It will also completely shield Madara from the effects.
Rebuttal of Hydricfication (You have 4 sentences for the counter Ill put them in bulletin style):
1.) There is a misconception that even I misread myself. But re reading the Manga again I realize that Kabuto does not have Hozuki clan tech. Through Kabutos experiments and modifications, Kabuto was influence of the clans tech and created his OWN version of fluids to counter act like Hozuki clan tech. Lets read it carefully:
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Keyword: "Liquid" and "Mine". Not every liquid can be conducted so saying lighting will be its weakness will be consider speculation.
2.) Madara does not have nor can he summon Kyuubi so I won't waste time rebutalling something he can't do
3.) The fact that Base Hashi was able to do it (before SM) means it will be easy for Kabuto to dodge Slash since SM increases your senses, reaction, strength, and speed. It requires alot of stamina to keep pace of dodging which Kabuto and Hashi have. The 5 kages were tired but at least they were able to survive one. It is reasonable to say he actually can. BUT if he were able to get hit. Fluids and Rapid regeneration does the trick. 3b.) You have also mention Meteors. The fact that his jutsu is very powerful but slow all Kabuto needs to do is Earth release to go underground or turn to a fluid state. Meteors kills Madara.
4.) Interesting counter to the cave but Kabuto is able to reanimate it all back if he wanted to. He can also reanimate the ground at will too (Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation) so PS will not be able to stable. Example of Sasanoo needs to be balance:
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Notice the Sassanoo holding grip. Balance is important, which Kabuto is able to disfunction Rebuttal of Sound Genjutsu:
1.)It will be useless to summon clones once he is caught. Madara CANNOT do Clones when effected with Sound Paralyze. Even hypothetically he summons it before head it was shown that clones can be under genjutsu but not affected. Since Sound doesn't conflict pain the jutsu still reacts the same with the user. 2.)Same answer
Rebuttal of White Rage: 1.)You are considering that Madara even knows what the attack is. Anyway when this move is activate Sasanoo will be useless. TO GO PS HE NEEDS TO STABILIZE IT FIRST. This is important all Sasanoo have stages they don't automatically jump to its final forms. And since stabizling comes first my answer to my counter comes from a Sassano user own words:
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2.)Another move you are condering Madara is ready to counter with no knowledge on it. The momment the tree break the jutsu the light and sound bursts. Since Light and Sound attack are the important factors from the jutsu then this gives Kabuto his victory.
After the "death" of Orochimaru, Kabuto wanted to continue his legacy by becoming just like him. By doing so he did everything in his research to become perfect. From there he has taken steps by steps to reach this perfection. Through research he has gain knowledge. He had went out of his way to become like a living Sage and also vast knowledge on those who once known has the "Shinobi Gods'". Eventually Kabuto was able to know alot about 1st Hokage and Madara.
Through Kabuto's Modifications on himself/his experiments he is now able to be on par with the "Gods of Shinobis". Some time in the Manga Kabuto foolishly claim that he has even modify Madara. Little did he know that Madara was already a step ahead of him with this modification. BUT little does Madara know that Kabuto still has some tricks up his selves to "Kryptonite" such an opponent like him.
That bite will simply stop Madara from using Wood Style. Yamato was only affected so severely due to his whole body being made up of Hashirama's cells. This isn't a problem for Madara.
How can he get close to him you say? Well with Jutsu of course Access Sound Five tech:
Kabuto's attacks are mainly Trap-base attacks to corner his opponents:
1.) Jirobo: With Kabuto access to this guy he can change the terrace of the battle field with earth release. Creating Holes/Traps, and Walls. Its universally perfect to counter Madara attacks like fire release and especially Sasanoo.(except for PS slash). He also can do everything Jirobo has shown like shaking the ground to lose the opponents balance, Earth Dome, etc.
2.) Kidomaru: With Kabuto access to this guy he can manipulate chakra webs at will. This will be very useful immobilizing Madara attacks. This jutsu cannot be cut by normal means (reasonably PS slash can) it can even make PS movements useless by just sticking them on the under arm, legs and various of places that would make PS attacks dangerous. Sticking would render/reduce the attacks power. By normal means would Fire release do the trick once Madara is stuck with it. Since Sasuke and Itachi couldn't it implies that Blaze release will be enough to take care of it:
Rebuttal of Hydricfication (You have 4 sentences for the counter Ill put them in bulletin style):
1.) There is a misconception that even I misread myself. But re reading the Manga again I realize that Kabuto does not have Hozuki clan tech. Through Kabutos experiments and modifications, Kabuto was influence of the clans tech and created his OWN version of fluids to counter act like Hozuki clan tech. Lets read it carefully:
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Keyword: "Liquid" and "Mine". Not every liquid can be conducted so saying lighting will be its weakness will be consider speculation.
Do you have any proof that it operates any differently than Suigetsus? If you don't then your speculatin more than I am by asking me to prove a negative. Though this is irrelevant as Madara doesn't use Lighting Style.
3.) The fact that Base Hashi was able to do it (before SM) means it will be easy for Kabuto to dodge Slash since SM increases your senses, reaction, strength, and speed. It requires alot of stamina to keep pace of dodging which Kabuto and Hashi have. The 5 kages were tired but at least they were able to survive one. It is reasonable to say he actually can. BUT if he were able to get hit. Fluids and Rapid regeneration does the trick.
Madara's wasn't directed at the Kages. Madara's intention was mearly to showcase the power of the slash and thy were incapable of even reacting to it when he fist used it.
Hashirama redirected it. Nowhere does it imply that he could have dodged. Madara could also jus use the shockwave.
3b.) You have also mention Meteors. The fact that his jutsu is very powerful but slow all Kabuto needs to do is Earth release to go underground or turn to a fluid state. Meteors kills Madara.
4.) Interesting counter to the cave but Kabuto is able to reanimate it all back if he wanted to. He can also reanimate the ground at will too (Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation) so PS will not be able to stable. Example of Sasanoo needs to be balance:
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Notice the Sassanoo holding grip. Balance is important, which Kabuto is able to disfunction
If Kabuto reanimated the cave then its simply destroyed again with PS Slash.
How do you suppose Kabuto would manipulate the ground to throw PS off balance? Even then, Kabuto has to keep his hands placed on the ground. Leaving him open to barrages from PS swords.
1.)It will be useless to summon clones once he is caught. Madara CANNOT do Clones when effected with Sound Paralyze. Even hypothetically he summons it before head it was shown that clones can be under genjutsu but not affected. Since Sound doesn't conflict pain the jutsu still reacts the same with the user. 2.)Same answer
As shown with Kakashi's clone. It still recognized the Genjutsu. Tayuya's sound Genjutsu doesn stop the victim from talking either so Madara can just notify the clone.
Rebuttal of White Rage: 1.)You are considering that Madara even knows what the attack is. Anyway when this move is activate Sasanoo will be useless. TO GO PS HE NEEDS TO STABILIZE IT FIRST. This is important all Sasanoo have stages they don't automatically jump to its final forms. And since stabizling comes first my answer to my counter comes from a Sassano user own words:
2.)Another move you are condering Madara is ready to counter with no knowledge on it. The momment the tree break the jutsu the light and sound bursts. Since Light and Sound attack are the important factors from the jutsu then this gives Kabuto his victory.
That bite will simply stop Madara from using Wood Style. Yamato was only affected so severely due to his whole body being made up of Hashirama's cells. This isn't a problem for Madara.
I don't think you understand poison if you think that it can only cancels Wood Release. The poison has nothing to do with just Wood style it directly attack Hashimara's cells and suppresses the anyone who has it. Just like how he even thought modification on Madara will be useful.
Do you have any proof that it operates any differently than Suigetsus? If you don't then your speculatin more than I am by asking me to prove a negative. Though this is irrelevant as Madara doesn't use Lighting Style.
PS has different Priorities then TBB. PS attack comes from its powerful swing creating a shockwave while TBB uses chakra to implode the victim. Either way a Shockwave/force velocity is easier to counter then a TBB through Kabuto's modification.
Madara's wasn't directed at the Kages. Madara's intention was mearly to showcase the power of the slash and thy were incapable of even reacting to it when he fist used it.
My fault I should of said that it is still counterable consider that Hashi did it (instead of avoidable). With DSM senses/speed increase he won't have no problem countering.
I don't see how that is a counter once the sound begins. Your only counter is to do it before hand, which OP would disagree since he has no knowledge on Kabuto. So no counter there. Also it would be useless hiding from SM senses. Hiding in Wood doesn't mean Madara can't hear anything either, the fact the he did it to Tsunade and pop up out of no where.
True, I was speaking in a sense that all of Sassanoo being counter comes to play. Then simply reconstruct it if anything. Inorganic Reanimation makes Sassanoo useless since it can also control the ground. Sassano falls on the ground.
How do you suppose Kabuto would manipulate the ground to throw PS off balance? Even then, Kabuto has to keep his hands placed on the ground. Leaving him open to barrages from PS swords.
To answer your question Inorganic is able to manipulte the grounds shape, by reshaping it like a slope (Scan at the end of sentence). Like I said through SM increasing speed, reaction, etc. Same how Base Hashi was able to.
As shown with Kakashi's clone. It still recognized the Genjutsu. Tayuya's sound Genjutsu doesn stop the victim from talking either so Madara can just notify the clone.
Madara can't command anything sense he is paralyzed you need Yin release to disrupt it. Itachi notice so he ask Sasuke not his Bushin, "if he were to make one."
The justu can move/travel like dragon there is no limit to its range. Again you are speaking in before hand. You have yet made a counter for the Light and Sound from the jutsu.
One does not need knowledge to try to counter it. Madara won't stand around and allow the Jutsu to advance towards him. As for the other part. The trees shield him from the light and the detrimental effects.
Trees can only provide shade the the light burst is universal. So is Sound. Madara is still screw inside the cave.
So far Madara has no clean counter for your rebuttal that I have seen. Also Jirobo'a jutsu, Kidomaru, and Inorganic renders Sassanoo's attack useless. But to go further then that:
Modification Priorities:
Due to Kabuto's experiments he was able to enhance all his creatures. Since Kabuto's Snakes have the same prioritizes as him:
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Notice how the snakes he created was able to use all his technique. Because Kabuto's creations can do the same modification as him that would also go with Manda II:
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And since Manda can cover a whole Island size monster it will be easy capture to take on PS. PS slashes would be useless through fluid counter and rapid healing
I don't think you understand poison if you think that it can only cancels Wood Release. The poison has nothing to do with just Wood style it directly attack Hashimara's cells and suppresses the anyone who has it. Just like how he even thought modification on Madara will be useful.
Do you have proof that it has any detrimental affects to others with less or no Senju DNA? Kabuto asinged it the single affect of being detrimental to Hashirama's cells. Which Madara only posses a small part of.
Wow. Itachi and Sauce vs Kabuto wasn't a very memorable battle :/
Still, that Jutsu isn't anywhere near the scale if where your putting it. Another case of you going overboard and overexageraring his abilities. He also has to have salon turn into Jirobo's leaving him open to attack.
PS has different Priorities then TBB. PS attack comes from its powerful swing creating a shockwave while TBB uses chakra to implode the victim. Either way a Shockwave/force velocity is easier to counter then a TBB through Kabuto's modification.
It doesn't matter what their priorities are. The point is that the force is what cause Suigetsu to become inactive. And PS Slash has the same amount of "force" as BD
My fault I should of said that it is still counterable consider that Hashi did it (instead of avoidable). With DSM senses/speed
increase he won't have no problem countering.
I don't see how that is a counter once the sound begins. Your only counter is to do it before hand, which OP would disagree since he has no knowledge on Kabuto. So no counter there. Also it would be useless hiding from SM senses. Hiding in Wood doesn't mean Madara can't hear anything either, the fact the he did it to Tsunade and pop up out of no where.
I don't think that you understand what I'm getting at.
White Rage has to explode first. It's essentially just a flash bang. Madara can use Deep forest creation to disrupt it before it reaches him and will block the light and vibrations.
Madara doesn't need intel to counter an attack. His Sharingan is off a much higher level than Itachis or Sasuke's. he's able to see the composition of Jutsus like Kage Bunshin. Also, If he doesn't have intel he woń just stand around and let Kabuto do what he wants. This doesn't matter though as staying in Ps completely counters it.
True, I was speaking in a sense that all of Sassanoo being counter comes to play. Then simply reconstruct it if anything. Inorganic Reanimation makes Sassanoo useless since it can also control the ground. Sassano falls on the ground.
Sasuke and Itachi never had problems with the ground below them. Madara could simply have Susano'O stomp the ground if he wishes and easily gives him footing. But your ocerhypin the Jutsu beyond what we've seen it do.
To answer your question Inorganic is able to manipulte the grounds shape, by reshaping it like a slope (Scan at the end of sentence). Like I said through SM increasing speed, reaction, etc. Same how Base Hashi was able to.
Madara can't command anything sense he is paralyzed you need Yin release to disrupt it. Itachi notice so he ask Sasuke not his Bushin, "if he were to make one."
If Madara's serious then he starts off with Bunshin. The Bunshin will recognize the Genjutsu and not he affected by it and they can release The real one from the Genjutsu by overlapping Genjutsu. Madara can simply ask a Bunshin to as well since he can still speak.
The justu can move/travel like dragon there is no limit to its range. Again you are speaking in before hand. You have yet made a counter for the Light and Sound from the jutsu.
Trees can only provide shade the the light burst is universal. So is Sound. Madara is still screw inside the cave.
So far Madara has no clean counter for your rebuttal that I have seen. Also Jirobo'a jutsu, Kidomaru, and Inorganic renders Sassanoo's attack useless. But to go further then that:
Not trees. A Deep first creation similar tithe one he used against Narutos Bunshin.
Due to Kabuto's experiments he was able to enhance all his creatures. Since Kabuto's Snakes have the same prioritizes as him:
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Notice how the snakes he created was able to use all his technique. Because Kabuto's creations can do the same modification as him that would also go with Manda II:
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And since Manda can cover a whole Island size monster it will be easy capture to take on PS. PS slashes would be useless through fluid counter and rapid healing
Do you have proof that it has any detrimental affects to others with less or no Senju DNA? Kabuto asinged it the single affect of being detrimental to Hashirama's cells. Which Madara only posses a small part of.
Why does it matter? It's called poison. Poison flows into the victims body. This poison counteracts from a certain cell, which the victim has. Therefore would be suppress. Your thinking too hard on this. It doesn't matter what portion has.
Wow. Itachi and Sauce vs Kabuto wasn't a very memorable battle :/
Still, that Jutsu isn't anywhere near the scale if where your putting it. Another case of you going overboard and overexageraring his abilities. He also has to have salon turn into Jirobo's leaving him open to attack.
It doesn't leave him open it takes 1 seal to do it. I avoid debating about attacks leaving them open. That is nearly all jutsu even Madara. Unless we both want a continuous/circulator hit and dodge logical argument which I wish we don't do. About the scale exaggerating you are looking at my argument as a way to cover Perfect Sassanoo. That is not the case. Logically Sassano weight is imply to this counter. For someone who can manipulate the earth/ground can easy make it difficult for a Giant to even move. Look how Kituchi use Earth advantage to Juubi:
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Notice how he altered an attack from the giant's attack. Kabuto was able to alter Ammy by simply flipping the earths plate:
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So either way he could use this jutsu or Inorganic Animation to flip it over
It was able to surprise two MS/EMS once it was shot. He even shot it on spots they didn't even realize I dont see how it would be a "quick katon" taking it out like that:
Read it again he clearly says it is his technique and made his own alternation Alternating from the original source does not logically apply the exact same.
It doesn't matter what their priorities are. The point is that the force is what cause Suigetsu to become inactive. And PS Slash has the same amount of "force" as BD
I don't how this disprove my point. 5 kages were already out of stamina and they believe they had a chance. You shouldn't even at least doubt Raikage dodging it with lightening armor. Any Hashi already proved my point
I post above disproving in more depth to disprove that. I also say he can attack webs on his Sassanoo arms to render it useless. Ever said anywhere in my post that he dodges Meteor I simply says he tanks it and Madara dies from his own move since OP said he can't regenerate
Also did forget about this part of the manga too?:
I don't think that you understand what I'm getting at.
White Rage has to explode first. It's essentially just a flash bang. Madara can use Deep forest creation to disrupt it before it reaches him and will block the light and vibrations.
Madara doesn't need intel to counter an attack. His Sharingan is off a much higher level than Itachis or Sasuke's. he's able to see the composition of Jutsus like Kage Bunshin. Also, If he doesn't have intel he woń just stand around and let Kabuto do what he wants. This doesn't matter though as staying in Ps completely counters it.
Never implied that he needs intel to counter nor will imply he will stand there. I only imply that he doesn't know what it is. I don't want a argument like that as I mention earlier. You already ignore the Sasanoo stabilization process argument (about jumping to final forms). Im talking about your argument directly. Why would you imply that he specifically counter it by block the Light and Sound by covering it with tress. It sounds like he knows how the jutsu works. PS does not counter Light and Sound
Sasuke and Itachi never had problems with the ground below them. Madara could simply have Susano'O stomp the ground if he wishes and easily gives him footing. But your ocerhypin the Jutsu beyond what we've seen it do.
I didn't argue of the ground attack I was arguing about abusing the ground manipulation. Manipulate it to creates slopes and slides. This was directly to PS counter. Making PS stomping the ground will not stop the ground from being manipulated. He makes PS fall
If Madara's serious then he starts off with Bunshin. The Bunshin will recognize the Genjutsu and not he affected by it and they can release The real one from the Genjutsu by overlapping Genjutsu. Madara can simply ask a Bunshin to as well since he can still speak.
With Manda II little panel time it has never shown damaged. I already gave you proof that ALL of his creations/snakes can do the same thing as him. They are all connected to him in a way Same for the poison I mention:
Why does it matter? It's called poison. Poison flows into the victims body. This poison counteracts from a certain cell, which the victim has. Therefore would be suppress. Your thinking too hard on this. It doesn't matter what portion has.
It doesn't leave him open it takes 1 seal to do it. I avoid debating about attacks leaving them open. That is nearly all jutsu even Madara. Unless we both want a continuous/circulator hit and dodge logical argument which I wish we don't do. About the scale exaggerating you are looking at my argument as a way to cover Perfect Sassanoo. That is not the case. Logically Sassano weight is imply to this counter. For someone who can manipulate the earth/ground can easy make it difficult for a Giant to even move. Look how Kituchi use Earth advantage to Juubi:
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Notice how he altered an attack from the giant's attack. Kabuto was able to alter Ammy by simply flipping the earths plate:
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So either way he could use this jutsu or Inorganic Animation to flip it over
It was able to surprise two MS/EMS once it was shot. He even shot it on spots they didn't even realize I dont see how it would be a "quick katon" taking it out like that:
Read it again he clearly says it is his technique and made his own alternation Alternating from the original source does not logically apply the exact same.
He attributed and compared his Jutsu to Suigetsu. You are yet again, outright assuming that Kabuto has some ability that he has no implication of. Your point is moot.
I don't how this disprove my point. 5 kages were already out of stamina and they believe they had a chance. You shouldn't even at least doubt Raikage dodging it with lightening armor. Any Hashi already proved my point
I post above disproving in more depth to disprove that. I also say he can attack webs on his Sassanoo arms to render it useless. Ever said anywhere in my post that he dodges Meteor I simply says he tanks it and Madara dies from his own move since OP said he can't regenerate
That again is based on a bogus assumption. Kabuto gets left inactive when hit by large scale attacks. Period. There have been no implications otherwise.
Never implied that he needs intel to counter nor will imply he will stand there. I only imply that he doesn't know what it is. I don't want a argument like that as I mention earlier. You already ignore the Sasanoo stabilization process argument (about jumping to final forms). Im talking about your argument directly. Why would you imply that he specifically counter it by block the Light and Sound by covering it with tress. It sounds like he knows how the jutsu works. PS does not counter Light and Sound
Not once did I say he did. I'm simply Listing out how he can.
PS is out if the reach if that Jutsu. It's much weaker when out in an open space and PS towers over mountains. You would e insane to think it reaches PS even unstabilized.
Madara would have probably released wood dragon by the time that can out and it would help fend of the attack and Kabuto.
Useless since he regenerate right after. And to disprove inactivity (Remember the snakes have the same priorites as Kabuto/ vise versa:
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(Snake almost split in half)
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Still regenerates even after being cut
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I know you want to imply the WHOLE body being split but this is still as valid then Kisimoto drawing fatalities for his readers to view
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A simple Katana and PS Slash don't even compare. PS Slash would completely annihalate Kabuto's body. Further more, your saying if Kabuto lacking inactivity is completely based in your imagination. Kabuto need implied that his Jutsu lacked it and he attributed his Jutsu to Suigetsu wether he said that it was his it not.
I didn't argue of the ground attack I was arguing about abusing the ground manipulation. Manipulate it to creates slopes and slides. This was directly to PS counter. Making PS stomping the ground will not stop the ground from being manipulated. He makes PS fall
No implications that they had footing problems. Also, if PS is heavier then its harder to make t fall, and with Jirobo's small Earth Style it would even be a factor to PS
Again, what are you talking about? Sasuke and Itachi broke I with Genjutsu so Madara and his Bunshin can. Especially she the Bunshin can tell when a Genjutsu is being used and isn't affected by it.
It didn't. So this is you just exagerrting something. That's like me saying Katon can reach that far and Madara only makes it stop, but I'm not. So quit with the bogus claims.
With Manda II little panel time it has never shown damaged. I already gave you proof that ALL of his creations/snakes can do the same thing as him. They are all connected to him in a way Same for the poison I mention:
This debate is getting painful to watch. Sorry, but I have to say something.
EJBlack, every single point you have overrates, overhypes, and overexagerates Kabuto's abilities. He can do literally nothing of what you and and the stuff he can does in a much smaller scale. You taken an Itachi level character and completely costrued him. I can't emphasize enough how much your overrating him and just outright lying about his abilities.
Sorry if that sounds mean but its true.
And Gakido, can we have some panels please? Your expecting him to just take your word in everything.
This debate is getting painful to watch. Sorry, but I have to say something.
EJBlack, every single point you have overrates, overhypes, and overexagerates Kabuto's abilities. He can do literally nothing of what you and and the stuff he can does in a much smaller scale. You taken an Itachi level character and completely costrued him. I can't emphasize enough how much your overrating him and just outright lying about his abilities.
Sorry if that sounds mean but its true.
And Gakido, can we have some panels please? Your expecting him to just take your word in everything.
Having less of the portion does not make poison less detrimental. What ever portion Madara may have will become effective as any other poison. Thats how poison works So when his whole right side of the body (
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) gets effected then he goes numb, nullify, and paralyzed as any reaction of poison. As for the other side side of his body, will be stress from the struggle.
Kitsuchi was an example of what Earth stylist are able to do with Earth style, shifting the Earth's plates. There is no exaggeration. If I were to say to alternate the size of the Earths plate of Amaterasu's size then you can say it. Kabuto can just alternate the size by just adding more chakra. "To PS size?" No, but enough to push one foot from Perfect Sassanoo allowing it to to lose balance
The moment you said "far exceed" it was obviously exaggerating but your comparing was wrong and reading:
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A was never in his face with Tsuande but to take care of Muu. Using these reaction had nothing to with webs since Kabuto will not be using it to stick directly at him.
He attributed and compared his Jutsu to Suigetsu. You are yet again, outright assuming that Kabuto has some ability that he has no implication of. Your point is moot.
Your thinking too hard on my point. Let me simplify it: Kabuto created his own fluids. Thats all there is too it there is no need to argue that the researcher (Kabuto) also created his own fluids to be exactly the same say as his source. This shouldn't be an argument even coming from the characters own words. I'm not giving it any extra "feat" I was saying that bringing up a "weakness" and "counters" that implies to Suigetsu DOES NOT IMPLY to Kabuto
What does Raikage slash have to do with anything :l. I mention only dodging feat. Kabuto's SM reaction is clearly above all of them. He can counter a slash as much as base Hashi can.
That again is based on a bogus assumption. Kabuto gets left inactive when hit by large scale attacks. Period. There have been no implications otherwise.
Same way as dodging a bullet like that, would help lol. But to answer your question. The fact that Kabuto was able to dodge one of the fastest attacks in NV in a small amount of meters does mean something. Seriously not reasonable then a Giant, meters higher, unsheathing his sword to attack?
That was my point. The rocks provided nothing to protect from the Light and Sound. It just gave it more places to bounce around then covering shade. As much as trees trying to do the same thing.
Not once did I say he did. I'm simply Listing out how he can. PS is out if the reach if that Jutsu. It's much weaker when out in an open space and PS towers over mountains. You would e insane to think it reaches PS even unstabilized.
Lol what that doesn't stop the white dragon from maneuvering where it will be best to explode even if its weaker outside. That only means Madara can maintain the Sassanoo just a bit quicker then inside a cave. Kabuto knows his own jutsu so he can simply use another attack before he can maintain it again. Just an inconsistent maintenance control (Sassanoo) can result from Kabuto ripping him apart:
A simple Katana and PS Slash don't even compare. PS Slash would completely annihalate Kabuto's body. Further more, your saying if Kabuto lacking inactivity is completely based in your imagination. Kabuto need implied that his Jutsu lacked it and he attributed his Jutsu to Suigetsu wether he said that it was his it not.
So far I was showing you manga scans to base on I have explained and claim and you claim I'm using my imagination, while you have provided nothing that says otherwise but claim that you are not using you imagination to claim he will in inactive
So far you claim that I am "over-hyping" a tech and then you claim that simply easy to stop the jutsu by just breaking something to cancel it. And now you are over hyping his Katon same heating scale of Blaze Release. This is from Kabuto's own word that what made the jutsu cancel:
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It took the one most powerful jutsu on NV for it to bring it back together. The heat from Blaze Release is the game factor. Madara will no nothing about what Inorganic Reanimation's doing. This move easily throws off the PS.
No implications that they had footing problems. Also, if PS is heavier then its harder to make t fall, and with Jirobo's small Earth Style it would even be a factor to PS
Are you reading the scan I put about look carefully. Are they in perfect balance are they not surprise from the earth moving them up and down? Let me clearfiy. Kabuto can use Jirobo's moves on a different scale this should be obvious especially from using SM. Using Jirobo dis-balance PS Inorganic Reanimation is what makes PS easily fall
Again, what are you talking about? Sasuke and Itachi broke I with Genjutsu so Madara and his Bunshin can. Especially she the Bunshin can tell when a Genjutsu is being used and isn't affected by it.
It didn't. So this is you just exagerrting something. That's like me saying Katon can reach that far and Madara only makes it stop, but I'm not. So quit with the bogus claims.
(Underline) What your example supports my claims and you called it bogus?:
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"That's like me saying Katon can reach that far"
How is it irrational to say that the white dragon can maneuver farther then a inch then what was activated in the Manga? Thats completely irrational on your behalf, its not like the move needs to be like near it's face
Having less of the portion does not make poison less detrimental. What ever portion Madara may have will become effective as any other poison. Thats how poison works So when his whole right side of the body (
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) gets effected then he goes numb, nullify, and paralyzed as any reaction of poison. As for the other side side of his body, will be stress from the struggle.
[/QOUTE]
Not all Poisons do the same thing. Yet again, your denying what the manga has shown, and thats that it affects Hashirama's cells. Not Madara's.
Kitsuchi was an example of what Earth stylist are able to do with Earth style, shifting the Earth's plates. There is no exaggeration. If I were to say to alternate the size of the Earths plate of Amaterasu's size then you can say it. Kabuto can just alternate the size by just adding more chakra. "To PS size?" No, but enough to push one foot from Perfect Sassanoo allowing it to to lose balance
Yet, Jirobo/Kabuto can't do it to that scale. Yet again, your massively overrating his abilities. he can do it to the size that hes shown and thats it. His chakra release abilities come into play if he wants to add more chakra and he hasn't shown he can.
The moment you said "far exceed" it was obviously exaggerating but your comparing was wrong and reading:
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A was never in his face with Tsuande but to take care of Muu. Using these reaction had nothing to with webs since Kabuto will not be using it to stick directly at him.
Your thinking too hard on my point. Let me simplify it: Kabuto created his own fluids. Thats all there is too it there is no need to argue that the researcher (Kabuto) also created his own fluids to be exactly the same say as his source. This shouldn't be an argument even coming from the characters own words. I'm not giving it any extra "feat" I was saying that bringing up a "weakness" and "counters" that implies to Suigetsu DOES NOT IMPLY to Kabuto
He compares his jutsu to Suigetsus and derived it from him. Your saying that he wouldn't be harmed by high level jutsu when he uses this "Liquid" State and that blantant, and as Demonic put it, Lying. You have Zero evidence that he could just tank attacks willy nilly or that he can fully fully liquid.
is what will happen to Kabuto after he gets hit with an attack of that level. Even then, Suigetsu had extra water and proven of being able to turn into full liquid. Kabuto has neither.
Theres no arguing here. Kabuto gets hit by this and its KO.
What does Raikage slash have to do with anything :l. I mention only dodging feat. Kabuto's SM reaction is clearly above all of them. He can counter a slash as much as base Hashi can.
He has nothing to counter it with and Your the one that brough up Raikage. Kabuto can't doedge that AoE and doesn't have anything to redirect it. Even then, Madara doesn't even have to hit him with the sword. He can just use the shockwave.
Same way as dodging a bullet like that, would help lol. But to answer your question. The fact that Kabuto was able to dodge one of the fastest attacks in NV in a small amount of meters does mean something. Seriously not reasonable then a Giant, meters higher, unsheathing his sword to attack?
is far to much for Kabuto to dodge. Its already sliced the tops of the mountain off before the debris has finished rising from the meteor being destroyed.
That was my point. The rocks provided nothing to protect from the Light and Sound. It just gave it more places to bounce around then covering shade. As much as trees trying to do the same thing.
Lol what that doesn't stop the white dragon from maneuvering where it will be best to explode even if its weaker outside. That only means Madara can maintain the Sassanoo just a bit quicker then inside a cave. Kabuto knows his own jutsu so he can simply use another attack before he can maintain it again. Just an inconsistent maintenance control (Sassanoo) can result from Kabuto ripping him apart:
So far I was showing you manga scans to base on I have explained and claim and you claim I'm using my imagination, while you have provided nothing that says otherwise but claim that you are not using you imagination to claim he will in inactive
So far you claim that I am "over-hyping" a tech and then you claim that simply easy to stop the jutsu by just breaking something to cancel it. And now you are over hyping his Katon same heating scale of Blaze Release. This is from Kabuto's own word that what made the jutsu cancel:
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It took the one most powerful jutsu on NV for it to bring it back together. The heat from Blaze Release is the game factor.
Have you seen how big Madara's Katons are? Much bigger than Sasuke's Enton, and Size of a flame dicates Heat. a Giant Katon is stronger thant a tiny Enton.
Are you reading the scan I put about look carefully. Are they in perfect balance are they not surprise from the earth moving them up and down? Let me clearfiy. Kabuto can use Jirobo's moves on a different scale this should be obvious especially from using SM. Using Jirobo dis-balance PS Inorganic Reanimation is what makes PS easily fall
[/QOUTE]
At what point do they look like they'r not? Sasuke and Itachi were standing on flat ground in the scan where he uses Enton.
Again, Overhype. The one time Kabuto used it, it wasn't big enough to do anything to PS and he hasnt shown to do it any bigger.
Naruto was going to use it as a counter to Itachi but failed since Itachi was so skilled with reality simulation Genjutsu. Yet, it should be common sense. Sasuke and Itachi overlapped Genjutsu to break the Sound Genjutsu. Madara's Wood Bunshin does the same.
(Underline) What your example supports my claims and you called it bogus?:
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"That's like me saying Katon can reach that far"
How is it irrational to say that the white dragon can maneuver farther then a inch then what was activated in the Manga? Thats completely irrational on your behalf, its not like the move needs to be like near it's face
Manga has shown Yamato being nullified, paralyzed, and in pain due to having Hashirama's cells in his system.
And your claiming that it will only do nothing to the cells inside Madara's body, just stop Wood Release, and continue on with the battle with no side effects? And then claim that I am in denial?...
Wont say no more about this part then, ill leave it in the air for the judges
Yet, Jirobo/Kabuto can't do it to that scale. Yet again, your massively overrating his abilities. he can do it to the size that hes shown and thats it. His chakra release abilities come into play if he wants to add more chakra and he hasn't shown he can.
So irrationally, you claim this is bogus for a ninja to add more chakra to increase their attacks and since you won't accept logically and rationally that it need to construct more panel time to imply the obvious. You are also putting Jirobo attacks on the same scale of what Kabuto can able to do with it in SM. Thus begs you to differ.
Still hasn't shown far superior to Itachi's reaction and Sasuke (Especially when Sasuke did fight V1 Raikage). I don't see how using a blocking reaction will do to Spider Webs spraying everywhere.
He compares his jutsu to Suigetsus and derived it from him. Your saying that he wouldn't be harmed by high level jutsu when he uses this "Liquid" State and that blantant, and as Demonic put it, Lying. You have Zero evidence that he could just tank attacks willy nilly or that he can fully fully liquid.
is what will happen to Kabuto after he gets hit with an attack of that level. Even then, Suigetsu had extra water and proven of being able to turn into full liquid. Kabuto has neither.
He has nothing to counter it with and Your the one that brough up Raikage. Kabuto can't doedge that AoE and doesn't have anything to redirect it. Even then, Madara doesn't even have to hit him with the sword. He can just use the shockwave.
Show me where in my post did I say anything of redirecting PS Slash I already gave you counters if he encounters PS -Sound Genjutsu
-Spider Webs
-Inorgnaic Reanimate manipulation
is far to much for Kabuto to dodge. Its already sliced the tops of the mountain off before the debris has finished rising from the meteor being destroyed.
He could of dodge the arrow even if it was a larger scale. The attack is simply voidable for Kabuto's skill as much as pulling his sword out for a direct hit. Hashirama for an example:
Size does not matter as will the Sound and Light bounces off from the rest the place. Best case is to cover the whole jutsu with a Dome, which Madara will not do
Still throwing out random counters that Madara will succefully counter without knowledge of the cause of the jutsu? Out of all possibilities he knows to block the Light and Sound.
Have you seen how big Madara's Katons are? Much bigger than Sasuke's Enton, and Size of a flame dicates Heat. a Giant Katon is stronger thant a tiny Enton.
Kabuto use all his moved one time where are you going with this? Are you not getting he controlled the WHOLE BATTLE FIELD part? THE WHOLE BATTLE FIELD is not enough to take out his feet?
Naruto was going to use it as a counter to Itachi but failed since Itachi was so skilled with reality simulation Genjutsu. Yet, it should be common sense. Sasuke and Itachi overlapped Genjutsu to break the Sound Genjutsu. Madara's Wood Bunshin does the same.
LOL WHAT show(scan) where Naruto even attempt to use his Bushin. You can't use your own chakra to disrupt your own chakra that was never shown in the manga. Common sense will tell you, you need a partner to be able to get out of genjtusu. Itachi getting caught in it should of been the comment sense
So far you keep telling I'm exaggerating and over-hyping moves when you clearly don't understand them. This is another example. Wood Dragon holding down and Island size monster? Ok let me simplfy this as much as possible to show you that its really even "belt waste":
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You see that?
It covers the whole Island that carry monstrous creatures and 2 Buijuu's. While Wood Dragon was able to do this much only:
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1 whole Buijuu.
So again, what is Wood Dragon going to do to Manda 2?
Yea imma write one more rebuttal on your next reply and draw my conclusion at the end of it. So basically the next one will be my past post and the judges can start.
