Hard work surpasses pure talent and genius

[Joshutsu]

I regard lee higher than Naruto and Sasuke in terms of this, lee didn't just get upset and his eyes develop bringing new abilities he doesnt have a beast inside him to help him out or byakugan but he managed to become a decent ninja.

 

[TheHokage]

I can agree with that.

 

[TrollingSage]

I feel some regret that all in all, Sasuke learned Lee's speed (without weights) in a month with his shitty sharingan while it took years for Lee to come up with such speed.

Yes. One of the bigges ass pulls in the manga. How the hell does a sharingan copy physical attributes? Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[KingHashirama]

"You'll never succeed in idealizing hard work. Before you can dig mother earth you've got to take off your ideal jacket. The harder a man works, at brute labor, the thinner becomes his idealism, the darker his mind." -D.H. Lawrance.


Talent is the same as no talent if it doesn't have any work put into it. Now people will give me examples of how even when a person works hard he can't do something the other person can... well that is the physical limit of your body.

Talent comes from hardwork.


Have people forgotten the training Itachi and Sasuke did as kids?

Yes. One of the bigges ass pulls in the manga. How the hell does a sharingan copy physical attributes? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Lee wouldn't get tired like Sasuke, not a ass pull.

 

[The ProphecY]

It's so true that through hard work, one can surpass those who were blessed with pure talent & great minds. However, majority of those who acquired talents & geniuses are also hard working. So, no point to argue to be honest. I also believe that Lee haven't surpassed Neji yet, if this is what you were trying to tells us. Neji just lacked the amount of time to showcase his true skills & abilities.

Moreover, in NarutoVerse transplanting Uchiha/Senju Dna through their bodies automatically makes you greater than those who possessed pure talent & genius mind.

Nice thread by the way!

 

[Sherlock.]

I agree....

BTW if anybody remembers then Goku wasn't born elite.... He was a low class Saiyan but he worked hard and later toyed with an Elite Saiyan like Napa and later on became stronger than even The Saiyan Prince Vegeta.... =D =D

Roronoa Zoro doesn't have any Devil Fruit powers but he has still defeated many Villains with special powers.... What I mean is he worked hard to become a great swordsman and defeated gifted people.... =D =D

 

[Forbidden Technique]

"You'll never succeed in idealizing hard work. Before you can dig mother earth you've got to take off your ideal jacket. The harder a man works, at brute labor, the thinner becomes his idealism, the darker his mind." -D.H. Lawrance.


Talent is the same as no talent if it doesn't have any work put into it. Now people will give me examples of how even when a person works hard he can't do something the other person can... well that is the physical limit of your body.

Talent comes from hardwork.


Have people forgotten the training Itachi and Sasuke did as kids?


Lee wouldn't get tired like Sasuke, not a ass pull.

The fact of the matter is, some people are born more gifted then others. Neji and Lee for example. Some people don't require as much work or practice at something to become efficient at it; whereas other people do require that extra work or practice.

In the beginning Rock Lee constantly got smacked around by the hyuga prodigy, Neji. But through hard work, Rock Lee was able to surpass Neji or at the very least, close the gap between them.

It's so true that through hard work, one can surpass those who were blessed with pure talent & great minds. However, majority of those who acquired talents & geniuses are also hard working. So, no point to argue to be honest. I also believe that Lee haven't surpassed Neji yet, if this is what you were trying to tells us. Neji just lacked the amount of time to showcase his true skills & abilities.

Moreover, in NarutoVerse transplanting Uchiha/Senju Dna through their bodies automatically makes you greater than those who possessed pure talent & genius mind.

Nice thread by the way!

Thanks!

In regards to the bold, see response to KingHashirama.

Why do you believe so? The same applies to Rock Lee, don't you think? The key to beating Neji:

Spoiler

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I agree....

BTW if anybody remembers then Goku wasn't born elite.... He was a low class Saiyan but he worked hard and later toyed with an Elite Saiyan like Napa and later on became stronger than even The Saiyan Prince Vegeta.... =D =D

Roronoa Zoro doesn't have any Devil Fruit powers but he has still defeated many Villains with special powers.... What I mean is he worked hard to become a great swordsman and defeated gifted people.... =D =D

Thanks!

 

[BONTUL]

Jinchuriki > Eye techniques > Talent/Genius > Hard work :devil:

 

[HadouKage]

this is true

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LOL at your sig, now I know who not to take seriously,

OT: Depends on the person and thing IMO

 

[NagazuDead]

Lee is a hardoworking, that's what makes him a little bit special. Never give up and stuff like that ^_^. That's what makes him a genius ! XD

 

[Frikid]

Yes, lets look at manga facts.

The only time Lee fought Neji was in base. Unless you believe that Rock Lee would use such a dangerous technique in a non killing intent sparing match. Opening the Eight Inner Gates is so dangerous that Kakashi was in total disbelief and stated that he lost respect for Gai for teaching Lee the technique.[

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-

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]
Furthermore, Neji had no clue Lee was even capable of such power [

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]

And since were looking at manga facts, mind providing a scan with Nejis long-ranged attack abilities? As far as I'm concerned Vacuum Palm is a mid-range attack.

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This is part 2 neji, and he acknowledges lee's strength but he didn't admit inferiority against him. Even after viewing eight gates and those "high speed" movements, still he thinks he would give lee a run for his money.
Lee has yet to surpass neji because if he surpassed neji, neji would have admitted inferiority.

And just because they never had an all out battle against each other doesn't mean lee was holding back just to get defeated, clearly, neji outclassed lee in their previous battles.

@red part :
I don't remember the manga page, but byakugan users attacked madara/obito via long range attacks which made the juubi beam miss its target (naruto and others).

The point of the thread is that Rock Lee, who unlike Neji, didn't possess any natural talent or much intelligence, surpassed just that.

But I do, and you're wrong.

Lol...why do you deny manga facts. It's obvious you didn't read the OP.

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.

I was talking about feats and not hype.
Sasuke gained as much speed as lee without weights in just one month, this alone proves the fact that
genius + hardwork > hardwork.

And yeah, neji also used to work hard, it wasn't just lee, so i don't understand why you used the term "pure talent and genius"

And i would like to see how you counter the bolded part in my post, since it alone nullifies your thread.

 

[captainEO]

I like Rock Lee, He is a decent Shinobi and he did everything by him self. He didn't have a daddy who gave him free chakra, a brother who planned his life. Hell he doesn't even have a clan. Respect Rock Lee ppl

Oh, please.

This is an INSULT to both Naruto and Sasuke.

Sasuke who created Kirin, an S-rank technique on his own. A guy who fought 5 Kage and their bodyguard whilst barely being experienced with his MS.

And Naruto who mastered SM as a teen, perfected Rasenshuriken, etc.

Both of these guys have worked hard.

 

[captainEO]

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This is part 2 neji, and he acknowledges lee's strength but he didn't admit inferiority against him. Even after viewing eight gates and those "high speed" movements, still he thinks he would give lee a run for his money.
Lee has yet to surpass neji because if he surpassed neji, neji would have admitted inferiority.

And just because they never had an all out battle against each other doesn't mean lee was holding back just to get defeated, clearly, neji outclassed lee in their previous battles.

@red part :
I don't remember the manga page, but byakugan users attacked madara/obito via long range attacks which made the juubi beam miss its target (naruto and others).


I was talking about feats and not hype.
Sasuke gained as much speed as lee without weights in just one month, this alone proves the fact that
genius + hardwork > hardwork.

And yeah, neji also used to work hard, it wasn't just lee, so i don't understand why you used the term "pure talent and genius"

And i would like to see how you counter the bolded part in my post, since it alone nullifies your thread.

Yeah, I also don't get this idea that Sasuke and Neji don't work for their strength/powers.

Just because you're smart or naturally talented, it doesn't mean that skills magically come to you when you're sat on your bum.

 

[paratise]

Oh, please.

This is an INSULT to both Naruto and Sasuke.

Sasuke who created Kirin, an S-rank technique on his own. A guy who fought 5 Kage and their bodyguard whilst barely being experienced with his MS.

And Naruto who mastered SM as a teen, perfected Rasenshuriken, etc.

Both of these guys have worked hard.

The point is; Lee worked hard when he had basically nothing from birth; Naruto and Sasuke had good genes and elemental affinities which they did not work for their existence; they atleast got things to work on not to mention Sasuke is considered a genius. Their feats they got from birth outclasses everything(basically nothing) Lee got from birth; he did not even had a properly working chakra coil system like a regular fodder nin; but instead he worked harder than any other character(I am not saying the others did not work hard, but they did not as much as Lee) and got his strength that way. We can give examples for the others like Naruto and Sasuke worked for; but they are loads of things which are too damn op they did not directly worked for.

 

[captainEO]

The point is; Lee worked hard when he had basically nothing from birth; Naruto and Sasuke had good genes and elemental affinities which they did not work for their existence; they atleast got things to work on not to mention Sasuke is considered a genius. Their feats they got from birth outclasses everything(basically nothing) Lee got from birth; he did not even had a properly working chakra coil system like a regular fodder nin; but instead he worked harder than any other character(I am not saying the others did not work hard, but they did not as much as Lee) and got his strength that way. We can give examples for the others like Naruto and Sasuke worked for; but they are loads of things which are too damn op they did not directly worked for.

Every shinobi is born with certain elemental affinities. So that's not unique to either Naruto or Sasuke.

If Rock Lee really does have something wrong with his chakra system, then he's abnormal. Because most people aren't born like that, hence it doesn't make either Naruto or Sasuke special rather it makes them normal.

Even without Sharingan, Sasuke was still the top student at the academy. Sasuke and Naruto have probably worked harder than any other member of the K11 excluding Lee. But Lee needed to work abnormally hard because he was untalented, which is something that you can't blame either Naruto or Sasuke for.

 

[paratise]

Every shinobi is born with certain elemental affinities. So that's not unique to either Naruto or Sasuke.

If Rock Lee really does have something wrong with his chakra system, then he's abnormal. Because most people aren't born like that, hence it doesn't make either Naruto or Sasuke special rather it makes them normal.

Even without Sharingan, Sasuke was still the top student at the academy. Sasuke and Naruto have probably worked harder than any other member of the K11 excluding Lee. But Lee needed to work abnormally hard because he was untalented, which is something that you can't blame either Naruto or Sasuke for.

But I did not blame them! It is a fact that they have more birth feats than Lee. Of course I do not blame Naruto and Sauke for their amount of work; every character has different aspects to represent

 

[Forbidden Technique]

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This is part 2 neji, and he acknowledges lee's strength but he didn't admit inferiority against him. Even after viewing eight gates and those "high speed" movements, still he thinks he would give lee a run for his money.
Lee has yet to surpass neji because if he surpassed neji, neji would have admitted inferiority.

And just because they never had an all out battle against each other doesn't mean lee was holding back just to get defeated, clearly, neji outclassed lee in their previous battles.

@red part :
I don't remember the manga page, but byakugan users attacked madara/obito via long range attacks which made the juubi beam miss its target (naruto and others).

No it wasn't. It was part

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"Did you watch the match that I lost?" In reference too his fight with Naruto in the final round of the chuunin exams. Furthermore, he was wearing all black that suggests it was at the 3rd Hokages funeral when he said that.

Okay even so, the fact of the matter is, Rock Lee closed the gap between the two. Neji used to look down upon him as an inferior squad mate but now views him as his equal. But then their the manga scan that you so conveniently ignored, where Gai said to himself that Lee has a untouchable high speed combo that is the answer to defeating Neji. I'm not saying Rock Lee has surpassed Neji to such an extent and left him in Lee's dust, but clearly Rock Lee has the upper hand.

I never said that Lee didn't go all out. I simply said that when they battled, Lee was under certain fighting conditions that he couldn't utilize his best techniques. Lee undoubtedly went all out with that he was aloud to do.

You must be talking about

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, no long range attack it was done with Body Transfer with the support from the Hyuga. The only non CQC technique the Hyuga possess is Vacuum Palm and it isn't long range.

I was talking about feats and not hype.
Sasuke gained as much speed as lee without weights in just one month, this alone proves the fact that
genius + hardwork > hardwork.

And yeah, neji also used to work hard, it wasn't just lee, so i don't understand why you used the term "pure talent and genius"

And i would like to see how you counter the bolded part in my post, since it alone nullifies your thread.

No it doesn't. How did Sasuke copy Lee's speed and taijutsu? His sharingan. It would of been an impossible task for Sasuke without it, so no, this doesn't prove genius+hardwork> hardwork.

@ Bold...since were still using manga facts, right? Neji was born with natural talent.

Spoiler

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While Rock Lee, on the other hand, literally started from nothing. He was the bottom of barrel. The laughing stock of the ninja academy.

Spoiler

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Thus, he needed to work three times as hard as Neji to make up for his lack of talent and abilities.

Spoiler

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Now do you understand?

 

[EliteRamenNinja]

Hard work > Genius, AGREE!

 

[KingHashirama]

The fact of the matter is, some people are born more gifted then others. Neji and Lee for example. Some people don't require as much work or practice at something to become efficient at it; whereas other people do require that extra work or practice.

In the beginning Rock Lee constantly got smacked around by the hyuga prodigy, Neji. But through hard work, Rock Lee was able to surpass Neji or at the very least, close the gap between them.

Neji had a Byakugan.. he trained for countless ours to train it.

Lee was called a Genius by Kakashi, Kakashi's words about lee:

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[Forbidden Technique]

Hard work > Genius, AGREE!

Thanks!

Neji had a Byakugan.. he trained for countless ours to train it.

Lee was called a Genius by Kakashi, Kakashi's words about lee:

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I am aware of what Kakashi said about Lee. He was amazed that a genin kid was able to accomplish such a feat. That doesn't disprove of what I said though.

Neji was born with natural talent.

Spoiler

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And was praised for being a genius numerous times in the manga.