Hard work surpasses pure talent and genius

[The Big Boss]

hashirama cells = cheat sheet

 

[Touken]

Part One > Shippuden.

 

[Creedo]

I feel some regret that all in all, Sasuke learned Lee's speed (without weights) in a month with his shitty sharingan while it took years for Lee to come up with such speed.

 

[paratise]

Yes finally Lee never used gates on Neji in their fights; he did not even removed the gates; so basicly all Neji did was beating a weights-on Lee in his base form during their sparrings.

About the rotation; that techs have intervals it is not like Neji can activate them forever; Lee can counter him between his intervals.

Lee is a genius of hardwork and he surpassed Neji and gave Gaara a fight the others possibly can not at that time.

Neji acknowledged him as a rival; that means he acknowledged his strength

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They both would be strong if the opness level did not became over 9000 in the manga; i wish they had a fight to establish a winner to see who in fact became stronger(like Neji said).

 

[paratise]

I feel some regret that all in all, Sasuke learned Lee's speed (without weights) in a month with his shitty sharingan while it took years for Lee to come up with such speed.

I hated that too.
Kishi needed to give Sasuke a power up; but why did he choose the feat of the guy who worked for it for years?
It had a s**ty message.

 

[TheHokage]

Naruto?!

1 He is an Uzumaki
2 Daddy gave him Kurama
3 He is the child of the prophecy
4 Some even claim that he is the reincarnation of the sage of 6 paths

How did he get this far by hard work?!

I'm glad you replied to that really I am because now I get to prove how stupid your points are:

1) Are Uzumaki blessed with some amazing bloodline that allows them to shoot flames out of their eyes give them a 360 vision or use some special attack like Ice, Storm or wood jutsu's, No Uzumaki are known for their sealing and their longevity and life force, nothing that gives Naruto an incredible OP power, but let's look at other proof at other Uzumaki's they are born with special chakra but as we've seen Naruto hasn't inherited that has he hasn't shown anything with this, then we have Karin she's an Uzumaki so going by your logic she's strong huh?

2) Daddy gave him Kurama? So you didn't see the years of abuse he got for having Kurama, or the trouble Kurama caused him with his chakra, and even then he had to use hard work e.g training for Sage Mode so he could subdue Kurama and take it's chakra.

3) So because he's the child of prophecy he's automatically strong, being the child of prophecy has nothing to do with strength it's based on the child of prophecies beliefs not power.

4) Only fanboys claim that and it means nothing how do you know the Sage wasn't a hard worker, if your saying he's the reincarnation of the sage wouldn't that make him a hard worker as well if that's the case...anyway this last point is irrelevant since there's no proof of it at all.

Don't try to make points that have no proof or are irrelevant.

 

[Frikid]

The manga disagrees.

Lets look at the manga facts. Everytime lee fought neji, he lost miserably.
Neji was said to be one of the top contestants in the chunnin exam and NOT lee.
Even after time skip, they didn't got enough screen time.

While lee is pure taijutsu, neji can use attacks from short range to long range.
Neji defeats lee in long range.

And your idea of hard work > pure intelligence is flawed in itself, it isn't like , neji didn't worked hard for what he is now.

 

[paratise]

Lets look at the manga facts. Everytime lee fought neji, he lost miserably.
Neji was said to be one of the top contestants in the chunnin exam and NOT lee.
Even after time skip, they didn't got enough screen time.

While lee is pure taijutsu, neji can use attacks from short range to long range.
Neji defeats lee in long range.

And your idea of hard work > pure intelligence is flawed in itself, it isn't like , neji didn't worked hard for what he is now.

Lee never used gates on Neji; neither he did take his weights off.
He would defeat Neji in a real-deal battle.

 

[shelke]

Naruto also uses hardwork instead of being a genius and look where he is now...above Sasuke.

Anyway I agree hard work surpasses any genius.

Naruto is the child of prophecy. This truly means he needs to work hard, when destiny has declared it otherwise.

OP There is no such thing as a genius of hardwork. Hard work is simply brought about by perseverence which is not even remotely related to the concept of genius. But, I see your point to an extent.

 

[Frikid]

I'm glad you replied to that really I am because now I get to prove how stupid your points are:

1) Are Uzumaki blessed with some amazing bloodline that allows them to shoot flames out of their eyes give them a 360 vision or use some special attack like Ice, Storm or wood jutsu's, No Uzumaki are known for their sealing and their longevity and life force, nothing that gives Naruto an incredible OP power, but let's look at other proof at other Uzumaki's they are born with special chakra but as we've seen Naruto hasn't inherited that has he hasn't shown anything with this, then we have Karin she's an Uzumaki so going by your logic she's strong huh?

2) Daddy gave him Kurama? So you didn't see the years of abuse he got for having Kurama, or the trouble Kurama caused him with his chakra, and even then he had to use hard work e.g training for Sage Mode so he could subdue Kurama and take it's chakra.

3) So because he's the child of prophecy he's automatically strong, being the child of prophecy has nothing to do with strength it's based on the child of prophecies beliefs not power.

4) Only fanboys claim that and it means nothing how do you know the Sage wasn't a hard worker, if your saying he's the reincarnation of the sage wouldn't that make him a hard worker as well if that's the case...anyway this last point is irrelevant since there's no proof of it at all.

Don't try to make points that have no proof or are irrelevant.

1. Uzumaki were so OP, that they were the primary target in the war , which is why, their whole clan got wiped out except a few. Sealing techs are OP(for eg. minato). Huge chakra reserves are OP(nagato,naruto,kushina) . All in all, uzumaki are OP.
And karin is very strong, you are underestimating karin. She is one of the best healer and sensor in whole NV.
She is one of those support type ninjas and not attack type.

2. Your argument was that naruto > sasuke because of hard work, i don't see SM naruto competing with sasuke. Kurama is basically what makes naruto OP.

Naruto isn't the best example of hard work , because he possessed kyuubi in him, he had massive chakra pool even without kyuubi and he got OP teachers like kakashi,jiraiya,Bee etc.

Lee never used gates on Neji; neither he did take his weights off.
He would defeat Neji in a real-deal battle.

Nope you don't have any proof to support your argument.

lee> neji is just your opinion and lee haven't shown any speed feats which would give a byakugan user trouble.

 

[elsepa]

Lee said that to Sasuke, look where Sasuke is and look where Lee is..

Sasuke now is all about kekkei genkai , take out his sharingan and tell me what happens.

 

[Twisted007]

I'm glad you replied to that really I am because now I get to prove how stupid your points are:

1) Are Uzumaki blessed with some amazing bloodline that allows them to shoot flames out of their eyes give them a 360 vision or use some special attack like Ice, Storm or wood jutsu's, No Uzumaki are known for their sealing and their longevity and life force, nothing that gives Naruto an incredible OP power, but let's look at other proof at other Uzumaki's they are born with special chakra but as we've seen Naruto hasn't inherited that has he hasn't shown anything with this, then we have Karin she's an Uzumaki so going by your logic she's strong huh?

2) Daddy gave him Kurama? So you didn't see the years of abuse he got for having Kurama, or the trouble Kurama caused him with his chakra, and even then he had to use hard work e.g training for Sage Mode so he could subdue Kurama and take it's chakra.

3) So because he's the child of prophecy he's automatically strong, being the child of prophecy has nothing to do with strength it's based on the child of prophecies beliefs not power.

4) Only fanboys claim that and it means nothing how do you know the Sage wasn't a hard worker, if your saying he's the reincarnation of the sage wouldn't that make him a hard worker as well if that's the case...anyway this last point is irrelevant since there's no proof of it at all.

Don't try to make points that have no proof or are irrelevant.

1) You call me stupid but your are the one that is making a great mistake, we are not comparing Naruto with Itachi or Neji but Rock Lee. You can not put Naruto who is from a elite clan, a clan is related with the senju, a clan that has a strong longevity and life force in the same box as Rock Lee who doesn't even have a clan power. You ask if Karin is strong, the chick survived a chidori Spear tru the chest. Now, would Rock Lee survive that? NO

2) Yes Naruto got bullied because of Kurama but that doesn't change the fact that it's a grand avantage. He used Kurama chakra in every fight just like Uchiha's use their sharingan, Hyuga byakugan ect. Only fanboys deny that Kurama is a great factor in Naruto's strenght and he got it from daddy. Now what did Rock Lee got from anybody?

3) Who listen or respect weak people in the Naruto world? How can you lead the world for better or worst if they don't respect your power?

4) I give you this, however the Sage had to be a natural talent, he created everything for god sakes.

My main point is that one can not put Rock Lee and Naruto in the same box.

Naruto has clanpowers - Rock Lee doesn't
Naruto got a biju from day 1 - Rock Lee doesn't

 

[paratise]

1. Uzumaki were so OP, that they were the primary target in the war , which is why, their whole clan got wiped out except a few. Sealing techs are OP(for eg. minato). Huge chakra reserves are OP(nagato,naruto,kushina) . All in all, uzumaki are OP.
And karin is very strong, you are underestimating karin. She is one of the best healer and sensor in whole NV.
She is one of those support type ninjas and not attack type.

2. Your argument was that naruto > sasuke because of hard work, i don't see SM naruto competing with sasuke. Kurama is basically what makes naruto OP.

Naruto isn't the best example of hard work , because he possessed kyuubi in him, he had massive chakra pool even without kyuubi and he got OP teachers like kakashi,jiraiya,Bee etc.



Nope you don't have any proof to support your argument.

lee> neji is just your opinion and lee haven't shown any speed feats which would give a byakugan user trouble.

You are the one who said Lee have not shown any speed feats; i won't even bother with debating with you.
You were also the one who stated that Sasuke can defeat juubi; which only further develops my point.

 

[TheHokage]

1. Uzumaki were so OP, that they were the primary target in the war , which is why, their whole clan got wiped out except a few. Sealing techs are OP(for eg. minato). Huge chakra reserves are OP(nagato,naruto,kushina) . All in all, uzumaki are OP.
And karin is very strong, you are underestimating karin. She is one of the best healer and sensor in whole NV.
She is one of those support type ninjas and not attack type.

2. Your argument was that naruto > sasuke because of hard work, i don't see SM naruto competing with sasuke. Kurama is basically what makes naruto OP.

Naruto isn't the best example of hard work , because he possessed kyuubi in him, he had massive chakra pool even without kyuubi and he got OP teachers like kakashi,jiraiya,Bee etc.

1) Not really the Uzumaki themselves weren't that strong other than sealing not to mention I don't think was ever officially mentioned why the Uzumaki clan were destroyed. Let's look at a few examples Nagato was mainly strong because of the Rinnegan which he was given not inherited. Just because Karin is good at having people bite her and being able to sense chakra doesn't mean she's strong not physically.

2) Actually SM Naruto = MS Sasuke and in fact SM Naruto might actually be stronger also you said you don't see which means it's not fact as it's your opinion.

3) Again it's not like he was given Kurama's chakra was it? He had to train hard to be able to subdue Kurama, even Kurama wondered how Naruto was so strong when he was in SM even now he's working hard to be able to use Kurama's chakra it's not like he's perfect with it straight away.

Okay Jiraiya taught Naruto some stuff but he made him work for it like with the Rasengan and summoning it's not like he just threw him some scroll with some OP jutsu. Kakashi taught Naruto the basics to elemental ninjutsu he learnt the Rasenshuriken in his own time, basically Kakashi didn't really teach Naruto that much same with Sakura. Then with Bee it wasn't really teaching was it? Naruto practically learnt everything to do with his Bijuu powers on his own.

 

[TheHokage]

1) You call me stupid but your are the one that is making a great mistake, we are not comparing Naruto with Itachi or Neji but Rock Lee. You can not put Naruto who is from a elite clan, a clan is related with the senju, a clan that has a strong longevity and life force in the same box as Rock Lee who doesn't even have a clan power. You ask if Karin is strong, the chick survived a chidori Spear tru the chest. Now, would Rock Lee survive that? NO

2) Yes Naruto got bullied because of Kurama but that doesn't change the fact that it's a grand avantage. He used Kurama chakra in every fight just like Uchiha's use their sharingan, Hyuga byakugan ect. Only fanboys deny that Kurama is a great factor in Naruto's strenght and he got it from daddy. Now what did Rock Lee got from anybody?

3) Who listen or respect weak people in the Naruto world? How can you lead the world for better or worst if they don't respect your power?

4) I give you this, however the Sage had to be a natural talent, he created everything for god sakes.

My main point is that one can not put Rock Lee and Naruto in the same box.

Naruto has clanpowers - Rock Lee doesn't
Naruto got a biju from day 1 - Rock Lee doesn't

I never called you stupid I called your arguments stupid.

1) Half related to the Uzumaki not fully not to mention he hasn't shown any special qualities from the Uzumaki clan such as special chakra or being a genius in seals. Also Karin survived because Sakura was right there, Sakura is an excellent healer if she wasn't there Karin would have died.

2) I mentioned Naruto getting bullied because due to this he wasn't giving normal teaching not encouraged and had to work hard just to get people's attention while people like Sasuke never also he never used Kurama in every fight since it wasn't his choice not to mention he didn't use Kurama's power to defeat Kakuzu or the 3rd Raikage, also I never denied he doesn't use Kurama's chakra it's just Naruto haters or people who don't read the manga don't understand that he had to work hard to gain usage of Kurama's chakra and automatically assume he was just able to use Kurama's chakra how he wanted without beating Kurama itself.

3) Well if I remember correctly the sage himself picked the younger son because he believed peace doesn't come through strength and his brother got jealous also the point was just because someone has strength doesn't make them this magical child of prophecy it's their beliefs and how they use the power.

4) He created everything but it was never stated when he might of trained all his life to be able to get too the level he was at and saying he was a natural genius is strictly an opinion like mine.

Naruto got the Bijuu from day 1 yet it took him 16 years for it to actually become useful for him while in the meantime stunted his growth such as making his chakra control ridiculous.

 

[Twisted007]

I never called you stupid I called your arguments stupid.

1) Half related to the Uzumaki not fully not to mention he hasn't shown any special qualities from the Uzumaki clan such as special chakra or being a genius in seals. Also Karin survived because Sakura was right there, Sakura is an excellent healer if she wasn't there Karin would have died.

2) I mentioned Naruto getting bullied because due to this he wasn't giving normal teaching not encouraged and had to work hard just to get people's attention while people like Sasuke never also he never used Kurama in every fight since it wasn't his choice not to mention he didn't use Kurama's power to defeat Kakuzu or the 3rd Raikage, also I never denied he doesn't use Kurama's chakra it's just Naruto haters or people who don't read the manga don't understand that he had to work hard to gain usage of Kurama's chakra and automatically assume he was just able to use Kurama's chakra how he wanted without beating Kurama itself.

3) Well if I remember correctly the sage himself picked the younger son because he believed peace doesn't come through strength and his brother got jealous also the point was just because someone has strength doesn't make them this magical child of prophecy it's their beliefs and how they use the power.

4) He created everything but it was never stated when he might of trained all his life to be able to get too the level he was at and saying he was a natural genius is strictly an opinion like mine.

Naruto got the Bijuu from day 1 yet it took him 16 years for it to actually become useful for him while in the meantime stunted his growth such as making his chakra control ridiculous.

How did it take 16 years for kurama to get useful when Naruto defeated Haku with Kurama chakra when he was 13 years old? He can use it more efficiently now but he was using Kurama chakra before the tame him. I do not hate Naruto but I have to be honest. Naruto worked hard to tame Kurama but it doesn't change the fact that he got that power from his daddy, just like Sasuke got his eyes from Itachi. And thus one can not put Naruto in the same box as Rock Lee who didn't get shit and isn't from a famous clan.

 

[yellowxflash]

To an extent

 

[TheHokage]

How did it take 16 years for kurama to get useful when Naruto defeated Haku with Kurama chakra when he was 13 years old? He can use it more efficiently now but he was using Kurama chakra before the tame him. I do not hate Naruto but I have to be honest. Naruto worked hard to tame Kurama but it doesn't change the fact that he got that power from his daddy, just like Sasuke got his eyes from Itachi. And thus one can not put Naruto in the same box as Rock Lee who didn't get shit and isn't from a famous clan.

Because every time Naruto used Kurama's chakra in part 1 and in the beginning it injured his body also I'd like to add the fact it wasn't Naruto using the chakra it was Kurama conscious like with Haku he was only able to use it because Sasuke fell before him he wasn't able to control his anger until he saw it was Haku and his power vanished. Like his battle with Orochimaru he wasn't in control and it was the same with pain.

Kurama was the reason Naruto wasn't able to use the Rasengan with one hand, fuse with the toads and it was also costing Naruto chakra to hold Kurama back. Fact is Kurama has only become useful for Naruto to use after he subdued Kurama.

Not to mention I think your confusing the difference between a genius and a hard worker it doesn't really matter what clan your in it doesn't mean your going to automatically be a genius because you where bore into a strong clan like the Uchiha take Obito for example or take Hinata while people from non clans such as Minato where genius's.

 

[Twisted007]

Because every time Naruto used Kurama's chakra in part 1 and in the beginning it injured his body also I'd like to add the fact it wasn't Naruto using the chakra it was Kurama conscious like with Haku he was only able to use it because Sasuke fell before him he wasn't able to control his anger until he saw it was Haku and his power vanished. Like his battle with Orochimaru he wasn't in control and it was the same with pain.

Kurama was the reason Naruto wasn't able to use the Rasengan with one hand, fuse with the toads and it was also costing Naruto chakra to hold Kurama back. Fact is Kurama has only become useful for Naruto to use after he subdued Kurama.

Not to mention I think your confusing the difference between a genius and a hard worker it doesn't really matter what clan your in it doesn't mean your going to automatically be a genius because you where bore into a strong clan like the Uchiha take Obito for example or take Hinata while people from non clans such as Minato where genius's.

Again, Kurama was a pain in the ass, but thanks to him Naruto won the fight with Haku, Neji ect. It's not only about being a genius, it's also about natural talent. Free talent like Uchiha/Hyuga eyes and Senju/Uzumaki body. Naruto and Sasuke cases are even worst, free chakra and brothers eyes.

I see that i'm not convincing you and you are not convincing me. So let's agree to disagree...

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Lets look at the manga facts. Everytime lee fought neji, he lost miserably.
Neji was said to be one of the top contestants in the chunnin exam and NOT lee.
Even after time skip, they didn't got enough screen time.

While lee is pure taijutsu, neji can use attacks from short range to long range.
Neji defeats lee in long range.

And your idea of hard work > pure intelligence is flawed in itself, it isn't like , neji didn't worked hard for what he is now.

Yes, lets look at manga facts.

The only time Lee fought Neji was in base. Unless you believe that Rock Lee would use such a dangerous technique in a non killing intent sparing match. Opening the Eight Inner Gates is so dangerous that Kakashi was in total disbelief and stated that he lost respect for Gai for teaching Lee the technique.[

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Furthermore, Neji had no clue Lee was even capable of such power [

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And since were looking at manga facts, mind providing a scan with Nejis long-ranged attack abilities? As far as I'm concerned Vacuum Palm is a mid-range attack.

The point of the thread is that Rock Lee, who unlike Neji, didn't possess any natural talent or much intelligence, surpassed just that.

Nope you don't have any proof to support your argument.

lee> neji is just your opinion and lee haven't shown any speed feats which would give a byakugan user trouble.

But I do, and you're wrong.

Lol...why do you deny manga facts. It's obvious you didn't read the OP.

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OP There is no such thing as a genius of hardwork. Hard work is simply brought about by perseverence which is not even remotely related to the concept of genius. But, I see your point to an extent.

I know there is isn't. It's just a title given to Rock Lee in the manga.