[Discussion] If God is all-knowing, then what's the point?

[Hebi Sasuke]

I never once said this and its true you can have love and purpose without but all im saying is i believe the LOVE i can experience with or without GOD was designed by him and why I am christian is that i am grateful for the free will to be able to feel those feelings and rebel against them and still have his LOVE.

I respect that you believe in God. I also believe in something also,I'm not a really religious person but I can't say I don't believe in anything,but that is probably because I was taught that way from an early childhood. But now I feel like that the whole "God idea" was created to control people,because religion is an easy weapon to control people and they follow that idea like ships. If God is good,then why do bad things usually happen to good people, and why there is a concept of hell,and how do we really know what is good and what is evil? And why is their so many "gods" through the history. You can have love,and you can be a good person even if you don't believe in Good. I feel that that is the only thing that is important. To be a nice human being,and in what do you believe is irrelevant.

 

[The Orange Spark]

It's funny how there are always questions that people tend to question GOD with. GOD! Who are we to question the Almighty. If you have the audacity to ask the LORD IN THE MOST HIGH QUESTIONS then do it with the manlihood, or resolve that you have I'm not saying this to be mean, In fact, I'm one of the nicest people you could ever meet. I just think its funny that people say they don't believe in GOD yet they have the need to say all of these things whether its by curiousity to know if there resolve is right or not, or because they simply just want to hate on GOD.

If you are curious to test your resolve then keep testing, but YOU ARE ASKING THE WRONG PEOPLE!! I tell you, as one who knows, you will truly never get the right answers until you bathe yourself in the basking Glory of God. So if you want to know the truth then GIVE GOD YOUR LIFE AND TEST YOUR RESOLVE! If you don't agree after that then be my guest and walk away.
Thing is, once you truly give your life to him in order to find your answer I PROMISE TO YOU that you would NOT question God again. Instead, you won't want to leave HIS presence.

If you just want to hate on GOD then you are doing it all wrong, lolol =D If you want to hate on someone then don't do it like a coward. One who wants to tussle with the ALMIGHTY does not look on from ringside, instead, he jumps into the ring and fights for his life :heh: or are you one of those people who decides to speak behind peoples back and base your resolve on questions that should be asked in the presence of the Lord? Even in your fighting stance when you face God in His true light, you will have no other choice but to bow down. For just so you know, the devil bows down to GOD because he knows what GOD is capable of. Yet he still does bad, because like people before me have stated "we are nor robots or puppets to be controlled" PEOPLE KNOW SO LITTLE BECAUSE THEY INVEST SO LITTLE!!! Heck, I myself even want to know more.

Just saying, if you stop asking questions that to you and to everyone else seems perfectly logical, and trust me, they are VERY good questions worth asking, then GO ASK GOD HIMSELF WHEN YOU INVEST YOUR TIME TRULY IN HIM! But I assure you.....you will come out a transform man and woman with a Brand New Mindset =D

 

[Vilvake]

I've had this idea that "God" is more like a programmed existence. Knows everything that was, is and will be. With that it is on a programmed path of material transformation.

Honestly the Universe as a whole seems to fit that desription. To me "God" is the Universe. There is no "why" to anything it does. The Universe is indifferent.

Everything is on a predestined path because it is already on it's way. I believe free will and choicees are kind of an illusion because in the end could you have changed anything anyway? I say no because you are here and you've done what you done. There is no going back.

It is all very arguable though. Besides we are only human. What do we know?

That's the root of the problem. If I decided to be atheist, right now, that's exactly the path God knew I would take. If I'm supposed to be Christian, something will happen to change me later on. In this perspective, there is no point in making choices because you can't escape your 'destiny'.

 

[6thpathsage]

I respect that you believe in God. I also believe in something also,I'm not a really religious person but I can't say I don't believe in anything,but that is probably because I was taught that way from an early childhood. But now I feel like that the whole "God idea" was created to control people,because religion is an easy weapon to control people and they follow that idea like ships. If God is good,then why do bad things usually happen to good people, and why there is a concept of hell,and how do we really know what is good and what is evil? And why is their so many "gods" through the history. You can have love,and you can be a good person even if you don't believe in Good. I feel that that is the only thing that is important. To be a nice human being,and in what do you believe is irrelevant.

I was Muslim while I was little and just like you up until january 2013. I thought the same thing up until I this January where I got told by my uncle how my grandpa died :

A week after he was discharged by the hospital after his illness my grandpa kept saying he was seeing these people singing in white robes singing and he was going to join them and he said he felt he was going to die. People (his children and his wife) shut him up and thought he was being crazy as he was just discharge with a clean bill of health (my uncle says its because they couldn't see what he saw). Lo and behold shortly after this he died.

Because I think about this situation like he had no need to lie and no motive because he WOULDN'T have known he was about to die. This event was so close to me because I cried when i heard this and I made that jump in my mind that " what if it is all real?". I have always been a decent person trying to do my best for people and i felt if I add that Christianity part to being good, it would not change who I am and it is worth it (not that hard to do) considering what is at stake. I have sinned loads since then but i also HAVE REPENTED MANY TIMES and believe I am not perfect and GOD knows this.

That's the root of the problem. If I decided to be atheist, right now, that's exactly the path God knew I would take. If I'm supposed to be Christian, something will happen to change me later on. In this perspective, there is no point in making choices because you can't escape your 'destiny'.

Take pride in your choice and have strength in the fact that someone knows. God knows your life but he doesn't bottle nose your path in life. You can ask him to guide you or you can go it alone and make your own choices. FREE WILL is real that's the first thing you need to believe.

In naruto Neji was destined to die protecting the main house and he died protecting the main house in the war but what was different during his death because he CHOSE to. (Kishi is a really good writer)

 

[The Orange Spark]

I was Muslim while I was little and just like you up until january 2013. I thought the same thing up until I this January where I got told by my uncle how my grandpa died :

A week after he was discharged by the hospital after his illness my grandpa kept saying he was seeing these people singing in white robes singing and he was going to join them and he said he felt he was going to die. People (his children and his wife) shut him up and thought he was being crazy as he was just discharge with a clean bill of health (my uncle says its because they couldn't see what he saw). Lo and behold shortly after this he died.

Because I think about this situation like he had no need to lie and no motive because he WOULDN'T have known he was about to die. This event was so close to me because I cried when i heard this and I made that jump in my mind that " what is it is all real". I have always been a decent person trying to do my best for people and i felt this would not change that if I add that Christianity part to being good and it is worth it (not that hard to do) considering what is at stake. I have sinned loads since then but i also HAVE REPENTED MANY TIMES and believe I am not perfect and GOD knows this.

That is a beautiful testimony. It really is

 

[Vilvake]

It's funny how there are always questions that people tend to question GOD with. GOD! Who are we to question the Almighty. If you have the audacity to ask the LORD IN THE MOST HIGH QUESTIONS then do it with the manlihood, or resolve that you have I'm not saying this to be mean, In fact, I'm one of the nicest people you could ever meet. I just think its funny that people say they don't believe in GOD yet they have the need to say all of these things whether its by curiousity to know if there resolve is right or not, or because they simply just want to hate on GOD.

If you are curious to test your resolve then keep testing, but YOU ARE ASKING THE WRONG PEOPLE!! I tell you, as one who knows, you will truly never get the right answers until you bathe yourself in the basking Glory of God. So if you want to know the truth then GIVE GOD YOUR LIFE AND TEST YOUR RESOLVE! If you don't agree after that then be my guest and walk away.
Thing is, once you truly give your life to him in order to find your answer I PROMISE TO YOU that you would NOT question God again. Instead, you won't want to leave HIS presence.

If you just want to hate on GOD then you are doing it all wrong, lolol =D If you want to hate on someone then don't do it like a coward. One who wants to tussle with the ALMIGHTY does not look on from ringside, instead, he jumps into the ring and fights for his life :heh: or are you one of those people who decides to speak behind peoples back and base your resolve on questions that should be asked in the presence of the Lord? Even in your fighting stance when you face God in His true light, you will have no other choice but to bow down. For just so you know, the devil bows down to GOD because he knows what GOD is capable of. Yet he still does bad, because like people before me have stated "we are nor robots or puppets to be controlled" PEOPLE KNOW SO LITTLE BECAUSE THEY INVEST SO LITTLE!!! Heck, I myself even want to know more.

Just saying, if you stop asking questions that to you and to everyone else seems perfectly logical, and trust me, they are VERY good questions worth asking, then GO ASK GOD HIMSELF WHEN YOU INVEST YOUR TIME TRULY IN HIM! But I assure you.....you will come out a transform man and woman with a Brand New Mindset =D

I had written a long response to this, but my Ipad screwed up and I lost it. But let's just say I vehemently disagree.

 

[sharingan67]

One of the fundamental articles of our belief is that Allah is completely dissimilar to anything except himself. He tells us in the Qur'an 42:11 "There is nothing like unto Him"

One consequence of this belief is that, unlike human acts, Divine Acts are not driven by a purpose, because the goals are meaningful only in the case of someone who is poor and needy.

To further clarify this, consider the following. When humans perform actions, it is fair to wonder what motivated them to accomplish, because, as the poor beings they are, they only act to satisfy certain needs. For example you put a coat because the weather is cool and it needs heat.You will eat food because he is hungry and needs to be fed. You go to college because he needs to earn a living through graduation there will obtain. As you can see from these examples, the reasons that drive people to accomplish their actions are indicative of the fact that they are basically in need.

Allah is the Creator of everything and he did not need anything. This is easy to say but not so easy to understand. One implication of His absolute lack of need of anything is that Allah is not motivated by goals regarding his actions. He who has no need can not have intended. So asking "why" God did something does not make sense. In the words of Qur'an 21:23

"He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned."

Allah has no need of our obedience and our disobedience can't hurt Him. There's no need to reward us if we obey Him. And if he had decided he could reward us for disobeying Him.When Allah reward someone, it does so only out of pure generosity, and not because he is required to do so under any need or because we have a right to his reward. The "why" question is inapplicable.

Similarly, Allah has no need to punish us if we disobey Him. And if He willed He could have punished us for obeying Him. This is why these books also teach that when Allah punishes someone, He does not harm because it has no right on Him. (Recall that our obedience or disobedience does not affect him.) He punishes by His pure justice. The "why" is inapplicable.

 

[Waltz]

It isn't hard to understand. He solely wants a world full of people who will worship him.

Initially, he could have made us all like that ^ but we'd just be robots

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Giving us free will is presumably more entertaining. Also, the world belongs to him, no one else.

 

[6thpathsage]

It isn't hard to understand. He solely wants a world full of people who will worship him.

Initially, he could have made us all like that ^ but we'd just be robots

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Giving us free will is presumably more entertaining. Also, the world belongs to him, no one else.

Like i said earlier oversimplification = trivialization which makes the whole argument seem unanswerable. You cant simplify the whole issue and get an answer for your issues.


Read:

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[Vilvake]

It isn't hard to understand. He solely wants a world full of people who will worship him.

Initially, he could have made us all like that ^ but we'd just be robots

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Giving us free will is presumably more entertaining. Also, the world belongs to him, no one else.

Sounds like a pretty self-centered guy

 

[YellowFang]

1- GOD exists...
2- He knows about everything(Past or Future)...
3- He created us...
4- Since we are His best creatures, he gave us the strength to think on our own and decide what we feel better for us...
5- Only by understanding the true meaning of values, we can judge ourselves...
6- Thus, we can ask Him to change us and our destiny...
7- Hence, even when we have a written fate...It can be changed by prayers...

So, we are here in a test to observe the nature, seek knowledge, justify ourselves, modify ourselves as good beings a/c to the knowledge... And knowledge hidden in the nature will never be wrong because if it was, this universe won't be functioning like it is...

Have a good day!!!

 

[Sherlock.]

As far as I think.... There is nothing like destiny.... Choice is the other name of Life.... It's what we chose to do makes our life the way it is.... God gave us freedom to Live and breathe and enjoy.... Some people are happy for no reason and some sulk over no reason.... We are free to choose what we want to do with our Life....

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[Ōkami]

Are you guys still going on about this.

 

[Sherlock.]

Are you guys still going on about this.

I just joined.... BTW your reply was interesting....

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[Waltz]

Like i said earlier oversimplification = trivialization which makes the whole argument seem unanswerable. You cant simplify the whole issue and get an answer for your issues.


Read:

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Then again that depends on one's religious beliefs. God as an all powerful everlasting being created an earth and placed Man upon it. He favor's those who do his bidding and follows his rules and regulations, and alternately disfavor's those who disobey. The end result of these things, in a simplistic form is, him eradicating the disobedient and saving the righteous. That's why we were created, to make a choice between the two groups. You're apparently under the belief that there is some extreme technicality to our 'free will' when it's rather clear as without it, choice would not be an option.

I can also agree with the connection between true love and free will as it is logically correct.

Sounds like a pretty self-centered guy

Nah, far from. I'm only sharing my opinion on the matter and in all honesty it is a question i've asked myself on several occasions.

 

[Ōkami]

I just joined.... BTW your reply was interesting....

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Naturally, it came from me.

 

[-God of War-]

I actually wrote out these questions a couple years ago, when I was 14, for another website. So that's why a couple of them may seem pretty immature.... but I'll leave them all intact anyway.

My family is Christian, so I wrote the questions from that perspective. But if you want to answer them from the point of view of another religion, feel free.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

If God already knows the outcome of our life, why put us through the test?
Why create us knowing very well who would go to heaven, and who would go to hell?

What's the point of creating us at all? The depressed would be relieved of there suffering, and the happy wouldn't know the difference.

Why create Lucifer knowing he would become the Devil?

Why create people incapable of knowing Him, whether by disorder or living in a time or place He is not known?

Why allow babies to die and gays to be born? Why give people a disadvantage, or advantage, to gain admittance to heaven?

Why does God care at all? If he desperately desires company, why not create some people in heaven, cutting out the middleman?

If God created us, who created God? Isn't the big bang theory more believable than a supernatural being who just happened to exist for all eternity?

Why would God create billions of people knowing they would suffer in hell for all eternity, the hell He either directly or indirectly created?

If I created a robot knowing it would kill someone, that is murder. So therefore, doesn't God sin by creating murderers? Or by creating anyone at all, since everyone sins?

Why allow a serial killer into heaven, who repented in the last hour of his life, but deny a non-believer, who spent his entire life helping people? This once again shows favoritism- the man who killed many, denying them a fair chance to believe, is the good guy, but the man who lengthened many's chances is the bad?

What's the point of God at all? A being that hasn't lived is incapable of longing for or missing it. Complete non-existence would save us all a lot of trouble, God included.

Basically the same question asked over and over.
In summary: Is this all a sadistic game to him?

You have a christian family but you don't know the answer? Okay, no problems. I have a simple answer.

God created Adam and Eve. And he said to them, ''if you eat a fruit from the forbidden tree, you will die and you won't be able to live in heaven. You will be able to know what sin is. etc etc''
So Adam and Eve broke the rule (ate the apple from the forbidden tree) and were banned from heaven. Their descendants won't be able to live in heaven, only if they believe in God and respect his orders.
We weren't supposed to live in Earth but in heaven. That's all.

Cause the serial-killer believed in God. He understod the point that there are only 2 choices. Heaven or Hell, peace or torture.
No matter what you have done in your life, if you don't believe in God you can't just go to heaven. You should believe in your creater. If you don't, then...it isn't logical going to heaven.
I won't talk more. Your questions look so stupid and foolishy.

But, you are right at this:
Why God created us, even if he knows who will go to heaven and who will go to hell?

 

[Vilvake]

Naturally, it came from me.

Sometimes I wonder if you enjoy making people dislike you.

 

[Sherlock.]

Naturally, it came from me.

I expect no less from you Bro....

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[6thpathsage]

Then again that depends on one's religious beliefs. God as an all powerful everlasting being created an earth and placed Man upon it. He favor's those who do his bidding and follows his rules and regulations, and alternately disfavor's those who disobey. The end result of these things, in a simplistic form is, him eradicating the disobedient and saving the righteous. That's why we were created, to make a choice between the two groups. You're apparently under the belief that there is some extreme technicality to our 'free will' when it's rather clear as without it, choice would not be an option.

Never was it said in the bible that sinners would be disadvantaged in this earth as we are in now. God LOVES non christians just as much as christians!!. It is however mentioned that GOD is pure and cannot behold impurity(evil deeds are clear to humans and God alike), Christians are people that have repented of the sin (impurity) because they want to communicate with God. Sinners will not be disadvantaged but they cannot communicate with God.

Why do we communicate with God? Because he knows past present and future, he knows what path leads to our genuine happiness.

Sinners can find a way to true happiness(this is different from success, wealth) just as christians can but it will take longer because they cannot approach the inside man for hints(whilst making descisions).

The only time sinners will be disadvantaged is after death and that is not because of the cruelness of God, it is because as i mentioned above he cannot behold sin. So the choice to go to hell where the devil runs as he pleases (not God's doing) is up to the individual and the pain and suffering being caused in hell to the sinners that end up there is down the the devil's administration of the place that God cannot behold.

God's boundaries (just like how your personal boundaries) are fully known and suffering is brought about by the choices of humans.

I dont understand the last line of your post however