But the Mist isn't Mei's only weapon. She can use Acidic Mist too. In this case Minato won't be able to use Kunais, and if he tries to find the Mizukage in the mist, he will be melted.
The acid mist you're talking about is only good in enclosed areas, not in the nature, because of the acid will evaporate really fast. Reason why she didn't even try use it against Madara for example and only relied on lava release. Furthermore, the acid mist you're mentioning takes some time to melt. What stops Minato from actually throwing kunais towards Mei and blitz her directly after that? It's not as if, the kunai would be melted that fast in mid air, not even mentioning the fact that what is important is not even the kunai, but the markings made of Minato's chakra. As long as there is markings, FTG lvl1 or 2 could be applied. Also, in latest chapter, we've seen that Minato is even capable to use FTG without markings, so it seems that the real working of FTG is still unknown by us. I created a theory around it that you can find in my sig
And why do you think Minato can sense Mei? He sensed Naruto's chakra because it's strong. Remember when Orochimaru commented that even Juugo and Suigetsu was able to sense his chakra?
Oro and co didn't sense his chakra, or i would say they didn't do that on purpose and were incapable to localise it. It's Naruto's chakra that resonated within their body, and made it possible for them to identify it. They were incapable to localise the origin of the chakra. All what they identified is that some chakra was hurting their body. It's different from what Minato did. Minato actually pinpointed the location of the chakra(2o'clock direction from him) and even identified Naruto's and Kyubi's chakra as 2different entities fighting together
Mei's acid mist is not as effective outside as it is in a close room, since in this case she'd have to be dealing with the fact that it will spread a lot more, along with the fact that it will blend with the already present air.
People here are also forgetting a certain trait of one the Hokage's move, the Rasengan. The properties of the Rasengan make it so that the rotation affects the surroundings on a large scale, as we saw in Naruto's fight against Sasuke. [
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] The force that came from the Rasengan simply being present completely dispelled Sasuke's Goukakyu, along with protecting Naruto and the clone involved from any harm.
Now, Minato's Rasengan, which is clearly superior to Naruto's [
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], would serve exactly the same purpose. Having been the creator of the jutsu, he knows it's properties, meaning that if he's surrounded by acidic is, this would be his first go-to technique, and it would certainly be effective. After all, it's just mist. Acidic mist maybe, but still, mist.
After dispelling the mist, Mei's chance of winning is practically gone. Minato summons the Toads to his aid, and quite easily overpowers her moves with their help, along with using the FTG and Rasengan for both offensive and defensive purposes, such as evading the Water Dragon and the mist.
Write to me if Mei can survive him spreading his Kunais across the battlefield and using Hiraishin level 2. Taking into account that most of Mei's offensive techniques, such as Suiton and lava can be countered with his barrier. Should I note that Minato can leave marks wherever he wants in addition to his Kunais?
If Minato was said to be able to blitz multiple Shinobi instantly, I wonder what the hell Mei can do.
Minato does have sensing abilities as demonstrated when he pinpointed Naruto's and Kyubi's chakra fighting together in 2o'clock direction from him, so using hidden mist would be useless and the only person blind here would be Mei, since Minato could localise her position anytime. We don't know if Mei is as good as Zabuza in fighting someone with sound alone, in this case then, the only person who would have difficulties to fight would be Mei. Setting
the mist would then only accelerate her defeat
But you know everyone can sense really powerful chakra's especially the Kyuubi. People such as Kakashi successfully sensed the Kyuubi's presence before he was ever summoned. And it seems unlikely that Minato is truly a sensor as he could recognize his own student. And While he was able to distinguish location you are discounting two factors. 1. He has no reason to believe Naruto and Kyuubi are now separate as Naruto is still alive 2. Once he feels Kurama's presence he should then know where Naruto is as well. Sensing Kurama and sensing Mei are very different tasks however.
I dont think Mei can win cause:
1) Minato is super fast
2) Mei cannot maintain acid fog for log remmeber she had to close all sides before she tried acid fog on sasuke and it took tim eto melt susanoo
3) Mei can never win in taijutsu with Minato
4) Above all minato has FTG soo comeon plz
1. Minato is pretty fast, but he'd have to rely on his base speed and its not so impressive that he'd close 50 meters or 164 feet before Mei can use a jutsu. The distance between Minato and Obito and was at the most 5 meters. And even that is pushing it.
2. As she said she enclosed the area so as not to harm the other kage not to preserve her chakra. She is by no means a chakra monster however her chakra is formidable. Before she came to the kage battle she had already been in another battle in which Naruto was one of her supports and they were still having a tough time. And after she arrived before needing to be healed she used quite a few high leveled techniques. It wasn't until chapter 575 that she needed to be healed/ repowered.
3. The argument focuses on Neutralizing taijutsu as a valid form of fighting here.
4. He has a few other things but he is not a distance fighter
Minato can cover this distance and FTG back to a safe spot pretty fast. He blitzed Obito and caught Naruto before Obito could stab him. 50 meters is not too much.
Once again Obito was about 5 meters or 16 feet away. Not nearly a comparable distance to 164 feet. In fact a 164 foot sprint might be exhausting to Minato. And once again what is he going to use to ftg? He can't mark the ground. Not in this location. His Kunai use paper and they would be ruined by water. So what is it exactly that he's marking?
He's a sensor of sorts. But his technique reminds me of the way certain Native American tribes hunted Buffalos by using their vibration to get a rough estimate of the number in the heard and the approximate location. But that isn't particularly helpful with Mei's style of fighting as she cast jutsus in mid-air or she can do so in a stationary fashion so that she doesn't create those vibrations. And you still haven't spoken about how he knows jutsus are coming at him, and how he would know how to respond without knowing which jutsu is coming.
The acid mist you're talking about is only good in enclosed areas, not in the nature, because of the acid will evaporate really fast. Reason why she didn't even try use it against Madara for example and only relied on lava release. Furthermore, the acid mist you're mentioning takes some time to melt. What stops Minato from actually throwing kunais towards Mei and blitz her directly after that? It's not as if, the kunai would be melted that fast in mid air, not even mentioning the fact that what is important is not even the kunai, but the markings made of Minato's chakra. As long as there is markings, FTG lvl1 or 2 could be applied. Also, in latest chapter, we've seen that Minato is even capable to use FTG without markings, so it seems that the real working of FTG is still unknown by us. I created a theory around it that you can find in my sig
Oro and co didn't sense his chakra, or i would say they didn't do that on purpose and were incapable to localise it. It's Naruto's chakra that resonated within their body, and made it possible for them to identify it. They were incapable to localise the origin of the chakra. All what they identified is that some chakra was hurting their body. It's different from what Minato did. Minato actually pinpointed the location of the chakra(2o'clock direction from him) and even identified Naruto's and Kyubi's chakra as 2different entities fighting together
Actually, you reasoning for you first two sentences is extremely poor. Nothing has even suggested that she can't use Acid Mist outdoors. Ever. The only property that we know is different from Hidden Mist and Acid Mist is the lowered PH and I'm not sure why you think that would change how if the mist just goes away. The reason she didn't use Acid Mist in the kage battle is the for the same reason she undid the jutsu after Juugo broke through the wall.
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She didn't want allies to be harmed. Had she used the Acid Mist in battle she would have been depleting Tsunade's chakra, harming Oonoki and Gaara, and hurting A internally at the very least. And if she harmed her allies their odds of success would be severely cut. And the reason we can rationally believe that she can in fact use Acid Mist outside is a mixture of how her abilities work and her later usage of Hidden Mist Jutsu
The way her jutsu work based on the phrase" If I don't make it less acidic" suggests that she can at her discretion manipulate the ph of the mist she's used. The question you should be asking is not whether she can create an acid Mist outside, the proper question is how much chakra would she have to use to make the ph of a large Mist the size used on Madara low enough that it would kill Minato.
The next clue that we get that she can in fact make a Acid Mist is based on the fact that she used Hidden Mist Jutsu with the only relevant difference between the techniques being ph.
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Which means if Minato is do what you say he would be getting acid in his creating chemical burns there and limiting how much physical exhaustion he can withstand in that instance. And it would make breathing very painful experience. It would give him chemical burns, and here I will admit my medical knowledge is not precise but I do know that when you smoke substances such as tobacco or marijuana the dugs enter into your blood system somehow. And thus it is not outrageous to assume Mei's acid could do so and begin to harm internal organs such as the heart.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the thing that stops Minato from throwing an kunai and simply following up afterwards is water. His seals are placed on yellow paper. Which if you bothered to read the OP I already mentioned in fact most of these arguments that I'm not discussing have been discussed in the OP which is very frustrating for me because I spent time to write the OP and then people don't read it and simply begin discussing. But we understand their are certain givens and the OP aimed to address that already. And I suppose the alternative is that people selectively read the OP but I wish to give people more credit than that and assume they are not that biased. But back to the discussion at hand. Any Water would distort the seals. And it barely took any time to melt the stone walls so I do believe that the metal will in fact corrode faster. And I believe that her Yoton would outright melt the Kunai. And please show me a scan of Minato using ftg without seals. Because Minato hasn't used a jutsu whatsoever. They jumped off the cliff onto their respective heads. I'm familiar with your theory I think you're completely off base with it however.
And while no one else said where the Kyuubi was it doesn't mean they didn't know. For instance, Orochimaru had no particularly interest in the war so to say where it was would be strange. And because Minato couldn't recognize the chakra of his own student and thought perhaps it was Madara I don't really believe he's as great of a sensor as you believe. It's just much more likely that right now Naruto and Kurama's chakra are extremely strong. Not on the same level but in a similar fashion to how Hashirama's, Tobirama's, and Madara's chakras are all strong chakras. Strong Chakras are notable by people who aren't sensor types.
Write to me if Mei can survive him spreading his Kunais across the battlefield and using Hiraishin level 2. Taking into account that most of Mei's offensive techniques, such as Suiton and lava can be countered with his barrier. Should I note that Minato can leave marks wherever he wants in addition to his Kunais?
If Minato was said to be able to blitz multiple Shinobi instantly, I wonder what the hell Mei can do.
Few problems here.
1. she can disable all of his kunai.
2. Discussed that in the OP
3. Discussed that in the OP no he can't and even he could she could still corrode them
4. A>B>C logic. Many people effortlessly defeated multiple fodder shinobi therefore they will all defeat non fodder shinobi. And how many of the shinobi he instantly blitzed and killed were kages in their prime because that's being discussed here. And more importantly Mei's skill set
That quote and that statements do not work together. There's no logical connection.
Edit: Now I'm going to class, and apparently people think that not posting means that they are right but that's faulty logic. It could just be that I'm busy with school. My point being I'll be back later.
There is. When you perform a jutsu your chakra flows through your body and materialises in the form of the jutsu you chose. Seeing as how Minato senses chakra when touching the ground, he will be able to tell a jutsu is cast his way.
But you know everyone can sense really powerful chakra's especially the Kyuubi. People such as Kakashi successfully sensed the Kyuubi's presence before he was ever summoned. And it seems unlikely that Minato is truly a sensor as he could recognize his own student. And While he was able to distinguish location you are discounting two factors. 1. He has no reason to believe Naruto and Kyuubi are now separate as Naruto is still alive 2. Once he feels Kurama's presence he should then know where Naruto is as well. Sensing Kurama and sensing Mei are very different tasks however.
That's a ridiculous argument. As Naruto isn't largely about powerlevels so much as it is about counters. That argument also relies on hype.
1. Minato is pretty fast, but he'd have to rely on his base speed and its not so impressive that he'd close 50 meters or 164 feet before Mei can use a jutsu. The distance between Minato and Obito and was at the most 5 meters. And even that is pushing it.
2. As she said she enclosed the area so as not to harm the other kage not to preserve her chakra. She is by no means a chakra monster however her chakra is formidable. Before she came to the kage battle she had already been in another battle in which Naruto was one of her supports and they were still having a tough time. And after she arrived before needing to be healed she used quite a few high leveled techniques. It wasn't until chapter 575 that she needed to be healed/ repowered.
3. The argument focuses on Neutralizing taijutsu as a valid form of fighting here.
4. He has a few other things but he is not a distance fighter
Once again Obito was about 5 meters or 16 feet away. Not nearly a comparable distance to 164 feet. In fact a 164 foot sprint might be exhausting to Minato. And once again what is he going to use to ftg? He can't mark the ground. Not in this location. His Kunai use paper and they would be ruined by water. So what is it exactly that he's marking?
He's a sensor of sorts. But his technique reminds me of the way certain Native American tribes hunted Buffalos by using their vibration to get a rough estimate of the number in the heard and the approximate location. But that isn't particularly helpful with Mei's style of fighting as she cast jutsus in mid-air or she can do so in a stationary fashion so that she doesn't create those vibrations. And you still haven't spoken about how he knows jutsus are coming at him, and how he would know how to respond without knowing which jutsu is coming.
Actually, you reasoning for you first two sentences is extremely poor. Nothing has even suggested that she can't use Acid Mist outdoors. Ever. The only property that we know is different from Hidden Mist and Acid Mist is the lowered PH and I'm not sure why you think that would change how if the mist just goes away. The reason she didn't use Acid Mist in the kage battle is the for the same reason she undid the jutsu after Juugo broke through the wall.
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She didn't want allies to be harmed. Had she used the Acid Mist in battle she would have been depleting Tsunade's chakra, harming Oonoki and Gaara, and hurting A internally at the very least. And if she harmed her allies their odds of success would be severely cut. And the reason we can rationally believe that she can in fact use Acid Mist outside is a mixture of how her abilities work and her later usage of Hidden Mist Jutsu
The way her jutsu work based on the phrase" If I don't make it less acidic" suggests that she can at her discretion manipulate the ph of the mist she's used. The question you should be asking is not whether she can create an acid Mist outside, the proper question is how much chakra would she have to use to make the ph of a large Mist the size used on Madara low enough that it would kill Minato.
The next clue that we get that she can in fact make a Acid Mist is based on the fact that she used Hidden Mist Jutsu with the only relevant difference between the techniques being ph.
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Which means if Minato is do what you say he would be getting acid in his creating chemical burns there and limiting how much physical exhaustion he can withstand in that instance. And it would make breathing very painful experience. It would give him chemical burns, and here I will admit my medical knowledge is not precise but I do know that when you smoke substances such as tobacco or marijuana the dugs enter into your blood system somehow. And thus it is not outrageous to assume Mei's acid could do so and begin to harm internal organs such as the heart.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the thing that stops Minato from throwing an kunai and simply following up afterwards is water. His seals are placed on yellow paper. Which if you bothered to read the OP I already mentioned in fact most of these arguments that I'm not discussing have been discussed in the OP which is very frustrating for me because I spent time to write the OP and then people don't read it and simply begin discussing. But we understand their are certain givens and the OP aimed to address that already. And I suppose the alternative is that people selectively read the OP but I wish to give people more credit than that and assume they are not that biased. But back to the discussion at hand. Any Water would distort the seals. And it barely took any time to melt the stone walls so I do believe that the metal will in fact corrode faster. And I believe that her Yoton would outright melt the Kunai. And please show me a scan of Minato using ftg without seals. Because Minato hasn't used a jutsu whatsoever. They jumped off the cliff onto their respective heads. I'm familiar with your theory I think you're completely off base with it however.
And while no one else said where the Kyuubi was it doesn't mean they didn't know. For instance, Orochimaru had no particularly interest in the war so to say where it was would be strange. And because Minato couldn't recognize the chakra of his own student and thought perhaps it was Madara I don't really believe he's as great of a sensor as you believe. It's just much more likely that right now Naruto and Kurama's chakra are extremely strong. Not on the same level but in a similar fashion to how Hashirama's, Tobirama's, and Madara's chakras are all strong chakras. Strong Chakras are notable by people who aren't sensor types. This is not a good argument but I've discussed relevant points of this argument above.
Few problems here.
1. she can disable all of his kunai.
2. Discussed that in the OP
3. Discussed that in the OP no he can't and even he could she could still corrode them
4. A>B>C logic. Many people effortlessly defeated multiple fodder shinobi therefore they will all defeat non fodder shinobi. And how many of the shinobi he instantly blitzed and killed were kages in their prime because that's being discussed here. And more importantly Mei's skill set
But you know everyone can sense really powerful chakra's especially the Kyuubi. People such as Kakashi successfully sensed the Kyuubi's presence before he was ever summoned. And it seems unlikely that Minato is truly a sensor as he could recognize his own student. And While he was able to distinguish location you are discounting two factors. 1. He has no reason to believe Naruto and Kyuubi are now separate as Naruto is still alive 2. Once he feels Kurama's presence he should then know where Naruto is as well. Sensing Kurama and sensing Mei are very different tasks however.
1- The people sensing Kyubi's chakra as you say aren't actually sensing it like i've said earlier. It's just that because the chakra is too strong, it resonate within their body. They can only notice the chakra in question because it resonate/hurt their body, but they are incapable to know where the chakra come from simply because they aren't sensors, and usually they are only capable to sense it when they are around the chakra in question, not thousand kilometers in a room like Minato and co were
2- The reason why he couldn't recognise his own student is quite easy to understand. One half of Obito is composed of Hashirama's cell, which means that his chakra pattern drastically changed since then. Furthermore, we already know that Zetsu is capable to appropriate the chakra pattern of everyone of his desire(when he at least touched the person once, that's it). With this method, he can even fool skilled sensors like we've seen during this war, and we know Obito was always covered by Spiral Zetsu. It's highly plausible that in order to make the Obito = Madara thing more plausible, Madara decided to ask Zetsus to copy his chakra pattern in order to cover Obito's filiature even more.
3- The reason why i believe Minato is a sensor is that both Tobirama and Minato used the exact same finger sensing jutsu sensing 20opponents. Both Tobirama and Minato were the only one actually sensing people in that room. You can't go away those hints Kishi give us. It's to show that both Tobirama and Minato use the same sensing techniques
4- Even if i were to suppose he is not, he still has demonstrated finger sensing jutsu. With this he is capable to localise Mei's position, since he was able to pinpoint 20people around him. He didn't see them, he didn't hear them, he didn't touch them, he didn't taste them, he didn't speak with them, which means he ressorted to something outside the 5senses, which is a sensing ability for me
Edit: I'm preparing to reply the second part of your post
2- The reason why he couldn't recognise his own student is quite easy to understand. One half of Obito is composed of Hashirama's cell, which means that his chakra pattern drastically changed since then. Furthermore, we already know that Zetsu is capable to appropriate the chakra pattern of everyone of his desire(when he at least touched the person once, that's it). With this method, he can even fool skilled sensors like we've seen during this war, and we know Obito was always covered by Spiral Zetsu. It's highly plausible that in order to make the Obito = Madara thing more plausible, Madara decided to ask Zetsus to copy his chakra pattern in order to cover Obito's filiature even more.
She didn't use Acid Mist in an open area, because it would have hurt her comrades, which is obvious as how she quickly restored the PH level of the room the second the Lava wall was destroyed. Minato is not wining this, as she controls the surrounding PH for acid potency and acid melts tissue and even bones really fast depending upon its potency.
You say it's not a good argument yet your own argument regarding that point wasn't really a good example. Mei using her acid mist in an open field can't be compared to her using it in an enclosed area. It doesn't take a genius to know that in an open field, the mist would spread around and become less concentrated unlike when used in an enclosed area. Another thing is that Mei can't increase the PH in her acid mist more than she did when she fought Sasuke. There was no reason to limit the PH ratio in the acid mist when she could increase it and bring Sasuke down. Especially since the area was enclosed and there was no reason for her to fear the mist would leak into the kages' room. So you saying she could increase the ratio of PH in the acid mist just because she could decrease it is something you made up yourself. It's something she wasn't shown to be capable of doing in the manga, unless I missed something. If so, enlighten me, please.
As an extra, I'll tell you why Minato couldn't sense Obito's chakra. It's no different from when Neji, a Byakugan user, couldn't tell Naruto's chakra. It's called a chakra interference. In Naruto's case, it was Kyuubi's chakra in KM that interfered with Naruto's chakra, and as a result, prevented Neji from sensing Naruto's chakra. In Obito's case, it was the Zetsu part that was filling half of his body. That's what prevented Minato from sensing Obito's chakra. Just like what happened with Neji and Naruto, as I mentioned earlier.
Another reason was Obito's ideals and feelings. Just like Sasuke when he was consumed by hatred, his chakra changed in response to that, according to Karin.
Obito has completely changed after his encounter with Madara, after he saw Rin die before his eyes, and after he awakened the MS.
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Obito can't be compared to when Minato last seen him. That might be another reason as to why Minato couldn't tell it was Obito.
2- The reason why he couldn't recognise his own student is quite easy to understand. One half of Obito is composed of Hashirama's cell, which means that his chakra pattern drastically changed since then. Furthermore, we already know that Zetsu is capable to appropriate the chakra pattern of everyone of his desire(when he at least touched the person once, that's it). With this method, he can even fool skilled sensors like we've seen during this war, and we know Obito was always covered by Spiral Zetsu. It's highly plausible that in order to make the Obito = Madara thing more plausible, Madara decided to ask Zetsus to copy his chakra pattern in order to cover Obito's filiature even more.
Juugo? Juugo broke nothing at all. It was Sasuke. But you're right on one point. She actually stopped it because she didn't want to hurt her allys. But, i still believe the acid mist is not as effective in the nature. Eventhough it's true Sasuke broke the wall in question, they were still in an enclosed area at the kage summit, so of course, in this case, the acid has nowhere to spread, fly and evaporate. They are all in a same room, where the acid in question is condensated, reason why it would hurt her allys.
In the nature, like i've said, there is no walls around them, so it will spread, fly and evaporate really fast. It's true though that she can use the mist(what i never said she couldn't), but it won't be as effective as it would be in an enclosed area.
The way her jutsu work based on the phrase" If I don't make it less acidic" suggests that she can at her discretion manipulate the ph of the mist she's used. The question you should be asking is not whether she can create an acid Mist outside, the proper question is how much chakra would she have to use to make the ph of a large Mist the size used on Madara low enough that it would kill Minato.
There is also the question "how much time it will actually take to burn Minato". The time it takes, i don't see what stops Minato from throwing kunais everyone, blitz and finish her with a rasengan, the time it takes i don't see what stops Minato from summoning Gamabunta and proceed to finish her with his large suitons or in close combat. Acid dissolves itself really quickly in contact with water. Mei has actually nothing effective enough to hurt Gamabunta who can even destroy forests. He is too large that the area where her mist could be effective would be too much minimal
The next clue that we get that she can in fact make a Acid Mist is based on the fact that she used Hidden Mist Jutsu with the only relevant difference between the techniques being ph.
I never said she couldn't make acid. I'm saying it won't be as effective in the nature. Acid evaporate really fast outside an enclosed area. Take alcohol for example and you'll see
Correct me if I'm wrong but the thing that stops Minato from throwing an kunai and simply following up afterwards is water. His seals are placed on yellow paper.
The yellow paper thing is not present in the viz. So it seems not to be the case at all. Furthermore, like i've already said, what is important is not the kunai, but the marking on it, which are made of Minato's chakra. They can't go out just like that
Which if you bothered to read the OP I already mentioned in fact most of these arguments that I'm not discussing have been discussed in the OP which is very frustrating for me because I spent time to write the OP and then people don't read it and simply begin discussing.
In latest chapters. He teleported Hiruzen and himself on top of their respective face on Hokage mountain without preparing seals at all
Because Minato hasn't used a jutsu whatsoever. They jumped off the cliff onto their respective heads. I'm familiar with your theory I think you're completely off base with it however.
No it was Hiraishin. I also thought they jumped just like you, and even created a thread about it, but viz proved me wrong when they said "Flying thunder god" before jumping. I'll edit to show you
