Did Kurama even help Madara?

[LeSauce]

WAIT!!!! Hear me out.
So thinking back to Hashirama's flashbacks I have failed to see how Kurama actually helped Madara against Hashirama.
I truly believe that Madara would have fared off better without him.

For starters I fail to see how kyuubi's TBBs even helped if anything it seemed to worsen things for Madara.
One was used against him, and others might have helped Hashirama destroy PS.

Yes I know some hit Shisusenju, but wouldn't have PS faired better against it? I mean it slices right? Shisusenju's arms were all like sticks facing upward. Technically all Madara would have to do is spam PS swords aiming them towards the arms, slicing them and removing all of Hashirama's arms. The thing sliced moutains like nothing I doubt That slicing some measly wood arms would be difficult.
Aside from that is the fact that adding the PS swords to the TBBs did nothing but keep Hashi's wood golem from grabbing them. Then there's the fact that PS would have been a larger size than Kurama covered with PS- the Ps that tanked the TBB in the beginning was just the top half.

So yeeeaaah... I don't think Kurama helped at all and instead made Madara waste more chakra. Ofcourse this is still my opinion, but now I would like to hear yours.

 

[GenKiDama]

.....brain cells.... Dying....OP.......failed to deliver......

 

[God of the akatsuki]

madara controlled kurma remember when obito summond kurma he had the sharingan that's what madara did they controlled him like that

 

[LeSauce]

.....brain cells.... Dying....OP.......failed to deliver......

Can you please explain my failure.

madara controlled kurma remember when obito summond kurma he had the sharingan that's what madara did they controlled him like that

Ok, but the thread isn't about that. Thanks for the reply anyway.

 

[ballerjordan]

Kyuubi obviously helped.

He destroyed the giant budha thanks to all those tbb's

 

[The Necromancer]

I agree. The fact that Hashirama and Madara have been portrayed as relatively equal and having fought many many times in the past, i feel like kurama limited madara somewhat making Madara+kyuubi about equal to Madara at full power.

Maybe madara lost so many times in the past he figured that he should spice up his arsenal.

 

[Ventalus]

Kyuubi did somehow help Madara by making Hashirama using more of his power, and as well summoning that Buddha thing. So Kyuubi was more likely suppressing Hashirama chakra. That's the only thing I can see how Kyuubi helped Madara.

 

[Zatack]

Without Kurama he would of been so screwed by Hashiramas senjutsu.

 

[LeSauce]

Kyuubi obviously helped.

He destroyed the giant budha thanks to all those tbb's

No, it hurt it sure,but my point Is that PS slashing the arms would have been a better offense against it. Madara would be better to spam more since all it takes is a swing, and it would cut the arms like a machete cutting sticks.

 

[accept pain]

naruto control over kurama has more advantages than madara or tobi.

 

[Arugon]

PS Cut mountains....
Shinsuusenju 10 times the size of mountains....

FAIL

 

[WhiteMangekyou]

Madara didn't have the rinnegan (or senju DNA) yet, he couldn't use PS, just normal Susano'o, so that's not a valid argument.

 

[The Necromancer]

Madara didn't have the rinnegan (or senju DNA) yet, he couldn't use PS, just normal Susano'o, so that's not a valid argument.

Perfect Susano'o is an EMS technique, not rinnegan technique. Madara stated that everyone who had seen PS had been killed. That doesn't make sense for it to be a rinnegan technique, as by the time he had the rinnegan he was too old to fight anyone anymore.

 

[LeSauce]

I agree. The fact that Hashirama and Madara have been portrayed as relatively equal and having fought many many times in the past, i feel like kurama limited madara somewhat making Madara+kyuubi about equal to Madara at full power.

Maybe madara lost so many times in the past he figured that he should spice up his arsenal.

Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. But I am starting to wonder if Hashirama had fought PS before because Madara seemed surprised that he was able to break it, just speculation though.

Kyuubi did somehow help Madara by making Hashirama using more of his power, and as well summoning that Buddha thing. So Kyuubi was more likely suppressing Hashirama chakra. That's the only thing I can see how Kyuubi helped Madara.

Making Hashirama use more chakra might have been helpful if Madara didn't already have PS which is bigger and would have pushed Hashirama to use his techniques anyways,plus the fact that Hashirama has SM. It also made Madara waste more chakra.

Without Kurama he would of been so screwed by Hashiramas senjutsu.

How so? I think he would have done better against it with PS.

naruto control over kurama has more advantages than madara or tobi.

ok, but this has nothing to do with naruto, but thanks for replying.

PS Cut mountains....
Shinsuusenju 10 times the size of mountains....

FAIL

doesn't matter the arms look thinner, and they were still just like sticks facing upwards. PS also looks like it would spam much more.

 

[xxSAGExx]

No, it hurt it sure,but my point Is that PS slashing the arms would have been a better offense against it. Madara would be better to spam more since all it takes is a swing, and it would cut the arms like a machete cutting sticks.

See you made a mistake, if you go back then you'll see that where Hashirama started his story he was already in a fight against Madara. So we have no idea if Madara started the fight without Kurama and did use PS but then had to use Kurama. Madara said PS power rivals that of a Bijuu but if you look back a few Chapters then you'll see that Kurama with only half his full power is stronger than 5 Bijuus So Kurama's power is much greater than PS. Naruto made a TBB that counters the combined tbb of the 5 bijuus and this is not even at half power Kurama ( Naruto used alot in the war). Kurama was a tool to Madara, it's about how you use that tool tho, Naruto sees Kurama as a comrade and uses him differently.

Also, Madara also had Earth and water element which made wood as Yamato showed Naruto in his wood training. So what's to stop Hashirama to use an earth jutsu that would make PS unstable? Swamp of the underworld could sink PS, the one Jiraiya used on Orochimaru's snake was n't at it's full size since he was only at 30%. And Hashirama has more chakra than Jiraiya so it would be huge.

 

[LeSauce]

See you made a mistake, if you go back then you'll see that where Hashirama started his story he was already in a fight against Madara. So we have no idea if Madara started the fight without Kurama and did use PS but then had to use Kurama. Madara said PS power rivals that of a Bijuu but if you look back a few Chapters then you'll see that Kurama with only half his full power is stronger than 5 Bijuus So Kurama's power is much greater than PS. Naruto made a TBB that counters the combined tbb of the 5 bijuus and this is not even at half power Kurama ( Naruto used alot in the war). Kurama was a tool to Madara, it's about how you use that tool tho, Naruto sees Kurama as a comrade and uses him differently.

Saying that he didn't have him is pure speculation, and Hashirama still needed the wooden arms to counter Madara's PS, if Madara had used before they would have already been there. Then there's the fact that when the fight started Kurama was already under genjutsu. PS rivals THE bijuu not a bijuu, and I believe they were talking about how destructive they were.

Ok what does that have to do with this?

As for your edit, Hashirama has never shown any other techniques beside wood, so everything you said is pure speculation, and only Jiraiya has swamp of the underworld.

 

[Almighty Ra]

Kurama was being controlled via the Sharingan..He was forced against his will to do the actions he did

 

[LeSauce]

Kurama was being controlled via the Sharingan..He was forced against his will to do the actions he did

Ok, the point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't seem like having Kurama was any help and if anything hindered him.