Jiraiya So Underrated

[UltimateDeadpool]

I agree he's underrated, but I don't think that he'd beat Nagato or Itachi.

That's just going against canon though.

 

[Lilt]

That's just going against canon though.

Well, there is some room for interpretation in those cases.

Itachi was later revealed to be a pro-Konoha and a frequent liar.

Nagato, at the time, was confined in machinery wiht black rods.

So those instances of hype are still a bit shakey.

 

[Penguin]

Jiraiya is top 15 material, maybe even #10. I agree to your title, but no way he is #4.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Well, there is some room for interpretation in those cases.

Itachi was later revealed to be a pro-Konoha and a frequent liar.

Nagato, at the time, was confined in machinery wiht black rods.

So those instances of hype are still a bit shakey.

Itachi was also revealed to be a merciless assassin that believed the ends justified the means.

A machine with legs. Nagato also still possesses more powerful versions of Pein's abilities, all five elements, tons of jutsus, Gedo Mazo with the power of 7 Bijuus (which he can also siphon chakra from and restore his legs), those rods can also control people at close proximity.
Nagato also believed that he could beat Naruto without Pein, showing that he was far from weak. His performance as an Edo Tensei cements that.

 

[GwemBaba]

Hiruzen is most definitely top ten.He is number 10

Not yet, when Hiruzen gets retconed, as he will soon, he may be.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Not yet, when Hiruzen gets retconed, as he will soon, he may be.

Hiruzen doesn't have to get retconned, he was called "The God of Shinobi" for a reason.

In part 1 he was stated to be the most powerful Hokage in his prime, he was stated to be the most powerful Gokage as an old man, he was stated to know over a thousand jutsus; including those from Konoha, and he was stated that you need the 8th gate to surpass him.

The problem is that, aside from not being a bishi, is that Kishimoto increased the power scale in part 2, so what Hiruzen did in part 1 didn't seem impressive (even though it was intended to be a Kage-level battle at the time). And because of that, people started doubting all of Hiruzen's hype.
Also, Hiruzen's circumstances in that fight didn't help people's perspective of him. He used Mudslide Wall for defense, Enma for support, and a Shadow Clone+Reaper Death Seal combo for the win. He fought smarter against immortal opponents, not harder... but people are only impressed by the latter.

Hiruzen did get more hype in pt.2 though, so Kishimoto didn't forget about him. Hiruzen said in front of Tobirama that he's more powerful. Danzo, even with his body mods, said that he could never surpass Hiruzen. Old Hiruzen and Danzo without mods were also suggested to be powerful enough to take out the Uchiha clan themselves head-on if need be. Didn't Hiruzen also knock 100% Kurama out of Konoha and learn Reaper Death Seal just from seeing Minato use it? So Hiruzen got more hype.

Now though, even though Edo Hiruzen is still old, Kishimoto will be able to apply pt.2 powerscaling to him. He was also again called "one of the strongest," and he's going to have to be in order to be of any help against god-mode Madara and Juubi.

The only thing that was retconned about him being more powerful than Hashirama. But people could had believed Hiruzen to be more powerful since Hashirama's full power was considered to be a fairy tale.

 

[Lilt]

Age or bodily disease just before death doesn't affect Edos' physical performance imo.

And Hiruzen feats against Shodai and Nidaime Hokages were scaled back when we found out they weren't near full power.

(And Orochimaru was already confirmed to be somewhat toying with Old Hiruzen.)

So it would seem that Hiruzen was indeed retconned away from "God of Shinobi," as that Hashi's role now.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Age or bodily disease just before death doesn't affect Edos physical performance imo.

So it would seem that Hiruzen was indeed retconned away from "God of Shinobi," as that Hashi's role now.

Being emancipated effected Edo Nagato. Edo Hanzo was also past his prime, which was how he was when he died.

Hiruzen Prime could still be immensely powerful, perhaps second to Hashirama. "God of Shinobi" was also first held by Rikudou, so you could think of it as title that's passed on to the most powerful.

 

[Lilt]

That wouldn't make sense though, as Edo bodies only take the appearance of inhabiting souls via dust.

The actual bodies aren't their own. With unlimited stamina, sickness and age shouldn't be a factor in speed, strength, etc.

 

[Lilt]

As for Nagato, it would make sense for the Gedou's soul dragons to have actually damaged/eaten some of his soul.

Then again, we saw Nagato moved on Bee. So it's also possible that his problem was in his mind.

He wasn't used to moving, so he couldn't do so as skillfully as he would with another destiny.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

That wouldn't make sense though, as Edo bodies only take the appearance of inhabiting souls via dust.

The actual bodies aren't their own. With unlimited stamina, sickness and age shouldn't be a factor in speed, strength, etc.

I have to disagree.

Let's say that you could life 350 pounds when you were 30, ok? Then let's say that you could only lift 290 when you died at 60. If you were resurrected, would you be 60 but be able to lift 350 pounds again? I don't think so because you're still old.

You're right about the chakra, his dwindled so low that he had to be careful what jutsus he used in his old age but now he has unlimited chakra. However, he was still weaker than his prime. He complained about how heavy Enma was, and Enma also noted how Hiruzen's performance was abysmal compared to his younger years.

 

[Oronagato]

Jiraiya strong? Yes, in fact a legendary high Kage level beast

Underrated? He'll no. Jiraiya fans still think jiraiya can solo itachi and kisame

Top 10?! Hashirama, Obito, Madara, Naruto, Nagato, Kabuto, 3rd Raikage, Minato, Hiruzen and Orochimaru disagree

 

[Shura]

He may be underrated, but no. He isn't Top 10.