Discussion; Does Madara have Amaterasu?

[Demonic Kitsune]

Yes he does have Amaterasu. That's just like saying "Does Sasuke have Tsukoyumi?" Ofcourse he does but he doesn't use it.

such a ignorant answer, once again, someone who is Madara, if you read the manga....why would he keep one of the strongest techs in secret? i doubt that he would have never used it in battle simply because he has other OP techs...

 

[naruttebayo]

meh i don't know why people are so obsessed with databook
it can't be 100 % correct

 

[Sensational]

databooks are outdated
madara doesn't have amatersau

dont trust the wiki unless they cite the source
until other wise madara does not have amatersau,

 

[Draphsin]

Are you unaware of the definition of "final''? Anyway, Sasuke's statement is merely a regurgitation of Itachi's (note Third Power):

Of course i do...Its the final power of the mangekyou. It doesnt state anywhere that susanoo is the final power of ama & tsukuyomi other than in the outdated databook, but thats only referring to Itachi anyways.

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It no where implies that "just having a double Mangekyou" grants you access to Susano'o as Uchiha such as Shisui maintained a Double Mangekyou and showed no signs of Susano'o. Sasuke also could not have used Susano'o before showing use of

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and

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which is in accordance with the Databook which states that the user must have unlocked both before unlocking the 3rd particulary, being 'Susano'o'.

Yes it does...are you serious?

It literally says "only those who have awakened the mangekyou can achieve this power"..........Meaning that if you have the mangekyou, then you have the potential to achieve susanoo, it makes no mention of ama/tsukuyomi. Susanoo is
his third power & thats why he called it that, it has nothing to do with ama/tsukuyomi being needed...

As for shisui, he's a terrible example as we've never seen him in combat so we have no idea if he even has susanoo or not. And besides, obito said that eyes with susanoo are rare. Shisui could easily be one of those ninja who never had it.

The databook only refers to

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as the caster of susanoo. You cant take it as credible information anymore because there's more than one caster.

If you take susanoo's description to be fact for all users, then all users whould have to have totsuka and yata according to the databook as well, no?

 

[Waltz]

@Draphsin:

You are only reiterating my initial point that The techniques themselves are not prior stages of Susano'o; but the user must have unlocked both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi before Susano'o surfaces [

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]. Sasuke rightly notes Susano'o as the third technique as the First and Second are evidently Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi [

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], he is merely citing Itachi as he himself had little knowledge of the Doujutsu, illegible of the fact that it brings about the attenuation of eye sight [

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] You are trying to take a section of his statement out of context to prove your point, but when read in totality it is in accordance with Itachi's and the Databook, which nullifies your point about shusui being a Susano'o user.

The Totsuka Sword is a conjuring under Itachi's Susanoo jutsu itself. Yata follows suit. Selective manifestation of all Susanoos by volition is kind of an example of that. It's akin to defining shape for a specific purpose; yet, applicable to Itachi's Susanoo on that end of both items, just like Sasuke displayed with the bow and enton variant; Madara his swords.

 

[Orochimaruofthesound]

No

You dont need ama and tsukuyomi for susanoo, you are also correct to think that the databook is outdated.

He's demonstrated nothing that relates to either ama or tsukuyomi...

then you explain his ms abilities and yes he has shown tsukuyomi

 

[bittu1415]

if madara doesn't have Amaterasu then he can't use susanu

 

[bittu1415]

favorite ninja in naruto:bouncy:

 

[bittu1415]

:sasuke: says that

 

[Itachi Hatake]

Yes he does its was stated in the data book that u need both ameterasu and tsukuyomi to awaken susanoo, that's why currently only 3 people have susanoo. itachi, sasuke, madara. Obito also has tsukuyomi but he doesn't have ameterasu that's why he couldn't awaken susanoo

Oh wow lol stop with your lies

 

[Itachi Hatake]

@Draphsin:

You are only reiterating my initial point that The techniques themselves are not prior stages of Susano'o; but the user must have unlocked both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi before Susano'o surfaces [

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]. Sasuke rightly notes Susano'o as the third technique as the First and Second are evidently Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi [

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], he is merely citing Itachi as he himself had little knowledge of the Doujutsu, illegible of the fact that it brings about the attenuation of eye sight [

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] You are trying to take a section of his statement out of context to prove your point, but when read in totality it is in accordance with Itachi's and the Databook, which nullifies your point about shusui being a Susano'o user.

The Totsuka Sword is a conjuring under Itachi's Susanoo jutsu itself. Yata follows suit. Selective manifestation of all Susanoos by volition is kind of an example of that. It's akin to defining shape for a specific purpose; yet, applicable to Itachi's Susanoo on that end of both items, just like Sasuke displayed with the bow and enton variant; Madara his swords.

You, again, bringing forth the outdated databook, where Itachi was the only person to have Susano'o at the time. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not a requirement. The manga is more reliable than the databook that came out how many years ago? Lets see...

When Madara fought Hashirama, did we see any evidence that of Amaterasu being used? Surely since its the strongest Ninjutsu, and he wanting to beat Hashirama would have used this technique right? I mean they were fighting to the death were they not?

When Madara was fighting against the Kages, he caught the Raikage, why didnt he use Tsukuyomi instead of "Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu"? Its the most powerful and battle effective genjutsu in the entire Narutoverse, why spare him?

How come Sasuke has never used Tsukuyomi? Dont bring up the page of him catching Bee in a genjutsu, because that was not Tsukuyomi. Itachi stated that only a Sharingan user with the same blood as him can break it. Im pretty sure that Itach knows of Jinchurriki.

In every instance that Sasuke has used Genjutsu it has been the same thing. Sharingan Genjutsu! When Suigetsu was trying to get information out of the Cloud ninja, Sharingan Genjutsu. When he used it against Bee, Sharingan Genjutsu. When he used it against Shee, Sharingan Genjutsu! When he used it against Itachi, Sharingan Genjutsu!

AND NARUTO WIKI IS NOT RELIABLE, ANYBODY CAN LOG IN AND CHANGE INFORMATION.

 

[Demonic Kitsune]

You, again, bringing forth the outdated databook, where Itachi was the only person to have Susano'o at the time. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not a requirement. The manga is more reliable than the databook that came out how many years ago? Lets see...

When Madara fought Hashirama, did we see any evidence that of Amaterasu being used? Surely since its the strongest Ninjutsu, and he wanting to beat Hashirama would have used this technique right? I mean they were fighting to the death were they not?

When Madara was fighting against the Kages, he caught the Raikage, why didnt he use Tsukuyomi instead of "Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu"? Its the most powerful and battle effective genjutsu in the entire Narutoverse, why spare him?

How come Sasuke has never used Tsukuyomi? Dont bring up the page of him catching Bee in a genjutsu, because that was not Tsukuyomi. Itachi stated that only a Sharingan user with the same blood as him can break it. Im pretty sure that Itach knows of Jinchurriki.

In every instance that Sasuke has used Genjutsu it has been the same thing. Sharingan Genjutsu! When Suigetsu was trying to get information out of the Cloud ninja, Sharingan Genjutsu. When he used it against Bee, Sharingan Genjutsu. When he used it against Shee, Sharingan Genjutsu! When he used it against Itachi, Sharingan Genjutsu!

AND NARUTO WIKI IS NOT RELIABLE, ANYBODY CAN LOG IN AND CHANGE INFORMATION.

finally someone understands what i was trying to say.. madara is not that stubborn to withhold a tech like that in a fight to the death lol + rep

 

[Draphsin]

then you explain his ms abilities and yes he has shown tsukuyomi

False, he has not shown tsukuyomi

He has never shown ama in battle either...

 

[Waltz]

You, again, bringing forth the outdated databook, where Itachi was the only person to have Susano'o at the time. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not a requirement. The manga is more reliable than the databook that came out how many years ago? Lets see...

When Madara fought Hashirama, did we see any evidence that of Amaterasu being used? Surely since its the strongest Ninjutsu, and he wanting to beat Hashirama would have used this technique right? I mean they were fighting to the death were they not?

When Madara was fighting against the Kages, he caught the Raikage, why didnt he use Tsukuyomi instead of "Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu"? Its the most powerful and battle effective genjutsu in the entire Narutoverse, why spare him?

How come Sasuke has never used Tsukuyomi? Dont bring up the page of him catching Bee in a genjutsu, because that was not Tsukuyomi. Itachi stated that only a Sharingan user with the same blood as him can break it. Im pretty sure that Itach knows of Jinchurriki.

In every instance that Sasuke has used Genjutsu it has been the same thing. Sharingan Genjutsu! When Suigetsu was trying to get information out of the Cloud ninja, Sharingan Genjutsu. When he used it against Bee, Sharingan Genjutsu. When he used it against Shee, Sharingan Genjutsu! When he used it against Itachi, Sharingan Genjutsu!

AND NARUTO WIKI IS NOT RELIABLE, ANYBODY CAN LOG IN AND CHANGE INFORMATION.

You are phrasing Ad Ignorantiam. It's advisable that you research Tsukuyomi and how it differs from Itachi's version which is translated 'Moon Eater' for your own intellectual benefit before making silly claims such as the bold.

 

[BlinkST]

Of course i do...Its the final power of the mangekyou. It doesnt state anywhere that susanoo is the final power of ama & tsukuyomi other than in the outdated databook, but thats only referring to Itachi anyways.

Itachi stated the other powers were the catalyst in him awakening Susanoo. The databook is merely repeating what he said.

〝月読〟と〝天照〟…
…二つの能力を開眼した時にこの眼に宿ったもう一つの術だ
Itachi: It's the jutsu one obtains
after he's awakened both "Tsukuyomi" and "Amaterasu".

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Sasuke: *pant* // *pant* // ...Susanoo...?
Itachi: "Tsukuyomi" and "Amaterasu"... / ...When I awakened to those two abilities, there was one more jutsu within these eyes.

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Spoiler

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It literally says "only those who have awakened the mangekyou can achieve this power"..........Meaning that if you have the mangekyou, then you have the potential to achieve susanoo, it makes no mention of ama/tsukuyomi. Susanoo is
his third power & thats why he called it that, it has nothing to do with ama/tsukuyomi being needed...

If it had "nothing" to do with those two jutsu in particular, Itachi wouldn't be surprised that Sasuke could use Susanoo in the first place.

The databook only refers to

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as the caster of susanoo. You cant take it as credible information anymore because there's more than one caster.

Yep. Terms like "those" are clearly referring to a single person, as opposed to multiple people.

Spoiler

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Itachi stated that only a Sharingan user with the same blood as him can break it. Im pretty sure that Itach knows of Jinchurriki.

That's some trashboat-worthy reasoning. You're basically saying out of all the Kaleidoscope Sharingan's powers, Tsukuyomi is basically unbeatable unless you're an Uchiha.

 

[Nous]

I believe to achieve Susano'o you must need both Mangekyou Sharingan - Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not necessary. Also, if Madara had Amaterasu, he would have used it in his battle with Hashirama. He didn't so I assume that he doesn't have the power to use such power.

 

[Draphsin]

Itachi stated the other powers were the catalyst in him awakening Susanoo. The databook is merely repeating what he said.

No he didnt, he said he awoke his susanoo along with his other techniques, he never said that he awoke susanoo because of them. The databook is the only thing that says this, but as ive proven it only refers to itachi.

If it had "nothing" to do with those two jutsu in particular, Itachi wouldn't be surprised that Sasuke could use Susanoo in the first place.

Uhhh, yes he would. Just because sasuke has the potential, doesnt necessarily mean that he'll awaken susanoo. Itachi was surprised at sasuke's progress.

Its like saying that kakashi wouldnt be surprised that naruto can go from KM to BM, because he already knows that naruto possesses kurama. Its the same concept with itachi and sasuke.

Yep. Terms like "those" are clearly referring to a single person, as opposed to multiple people.

Spoiler

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Fail

So all "those" who awaken ama and tsukuyomi can cast a susanoo with a "sword and shield"? well....those sound a lot like totsuka and ama to me. :sy:

 

[BlinkST]

No he didnt, he said he awoke his susanoo along with his other techniques

The translations provided there are more accurate, as the databook only reflects what was written in the manga at the time of publication. Referring to an improper translation makes about as much sense as trying to prove a point with the King James bible.

Uhhh, yes he would. Just because sasuke has the potential, doesnt necessarily mean that he'll awaken susanoo. Itachi was surprised at sasuke's progress.

Uchiha ocular powers so far have been highly emotion-based and require no formal training. The awakening of Amaterasu:

Spoiler

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Awakening of Kamui:

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Tobirama's statement:

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Spoiler

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There is no reason for Itachi to become surprised, as awakening these powers do not require advanced skill or talent; the only notable exception has been genjutsu. Someone of Shisui's stature should have been a Susanoo user, yet he wasn't, due to lacking the proper catalyst jutsu.

 

[Owarij]

No

You dont need ama and tsukuyomi for susanoo, you are also correct to think that the databook is outdated.

He's demonstrated nothing that relates to either ama or tsukuyomi...

He totally didn't come up with a plan to use Tsukyomi on the moon since his last fight Hashirama.. damn shame he doesn't have it.....

Imo it's obvious he has the both as well.... He was the creator of Infinite Tsukyomi... this was in a time where him and his brother were the first two ms users... meaning he had to have it.. there is no other possible way he could have came up with it

 

[Draphsin]

The translations provided there are more accurate, as the databook only reflects what was written in the manga at the time of publication. Referring to an improper translation makes about as much sense as trying to prove a point with the King James bible.

You still have no proof that the databook wasnt talking about itachi. I already stated that if you take the databooks word for fact then you also take in the fact that all susanoo users also wield

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(top left)

Uchiha ocular powers so far have been highly emotion-based and require no formal training. The awakening of Amaterasu:

Spoiler

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Awakening of Kamui:

Spoiler

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Tobirama's statement:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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There is no reason for Itachi to become surprised, as awakening these powers do not require advanced skill or talent; the only notable exception has been genjutsu. Someone of Shisui's stature should have been a Susanoo user, yet he wasn't, due to lacking the proper catalyst jutsu.

........So that contradicts your earlier statement...

If it had "nothing" to do with those two jutsu in particular, Itachi wouldn't be surprised that Sasuke could use Susanoo in the first place.

If it did have something to do with those jutsus then Itachi wouldnt be surprised, further proving that itachi was just surprised at sasuke's progress....??

He totally didn't come up with a plan to use Tsukyomi on the moon since his last fight Hashirama.. damn shame he doesn't have it.....

Imo it's obvious he has the both as well.... He was the creator of Infinite Tsukyomi... this was in a time where him and his brother were the first two ms users... meaning he had to have it.. there is no other possible way he could have came up with it

Ive already proven this wrong....

Madara can use tsukuyomi with any genjutsu. He demonstrates it to obito....

Spoiler

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