[No Mangekyou] Kakashi vs Healthy Itachi

pateuvasiliu

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
8,740
Reaction score
419
This is healthy Itachi and War Arc Kakashi.

The battlefield is the Forest of Death, with plenty of space for trickey.

They can both copy -ANY- technique the other user has provided they have the nature transformation for it.

Genjutsu doesn't work.
 

Lilt

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
2,195
Reaction score
322
In terms of speed, both are elites. Itachi countered Sages and Jinchūriki (that trounced Raikages) while Kakashi matched gated Gai and exchanged blows with cloaked Dōjutsu Jinchūriki.

However, when observing their shunshin usage, I do believe Itachi has the edge, because his shunshin was shown to be immensely impressive with or without being combined with clone creation.

For skirmishes, they are equal in hand-to-hand, but Itachi uses weapons to evoke Hachibi transformations, pierce multiple Rinnegan, and force even Sasuke to use a 'quickdraw-kuchiyose.'

Consequently, Kakashi will be outclassed in the opening skirmish, as Itachi's superhuman speed, particular to his hands, should dominate the warm ups. The battle thus progresses to ninjutsu.

At this point, Itachi retains some advantages in key areas. The first being that Itachi has the more efficient bunshin, which further compounds his advantage for Sharingan and style efficiency.

And while both Itachi and Kakashi can splurge on Raiton or Daibakuha Kage Bunshin, the presence of efficient yet powerful Karasu Bunshin awards Itachi an attritional advantage in caution.

Moreover, while Kakashi does have the nifty ability to combine bunshin with doton assaults, it should be noted that Itachi's Karasu Bunshin permitted him the same "drop" on Sasuke and Kabuto.

As for pew-pew offense, katons are much better in this match, because they are indeed lethal to non-cloaked, non-regenerating shinobi while also possessing a sizable area of effect.

The widespread dominance of raitons is only present against durable ninja... which Kakashi is not. The speed feats of Itachi's jutsu was further amplified in his Sage and Jinchūriki feats to boot.

This is likely a throwback to Itachi's sealing speed, as he can create jutsu "superhumanly" as Kurenai puts it, and allows him to preempt Sharingan precognition itself and arguably Sage senses.

As for intelligence, Itachi was never fairly outmaneuvered. In the instances reported, he was not only outnumbered, but was weakened or holding back according to his opponents.

The portrayal of Itachi, at this point, paints him as smarter. He figured out how to defeat Edo Tensei, countered Rinnegan tricks, and was praised as superhumanly perceptive above all Uchiha.

And then there's genjutsu. We've seen C's genjutsu be effective for openings. While the window was small, it was present, and Sasuke needed only a small window to defeat Danzō.

This may be why Kakashi learned to avoid Itachi's eyes, as he did against the clone, was most likely to avoid these small windows that could lead to Itachi's decisive victory.

However, Itachi still has the small trump card of his Sharingan crow to catch Kakashi in genjutsu, as he did against Naruto, and this could potentially give him the opening for victory in itself.

And then there's Izanami, which can put Kakashi into a short genjutsu by having him kill two Karasu Bunshin in a similar fashion, which is possible without his knowledge. Itachi gets his window.

Ultimately, we can rely on outdated feats to aid Kakashi's case, but that's not necessarily fair, because Itachi was always stated to be held back in some fashion. We ought to use the best.

And when viewing their best, Kakashi is not, and will never be, portrayed as an equal to Itachi in shinobi skill and insight. Kakashi lacks the "Itachi battle factor" that some confuse for "Gary Stu."

Itachi solos. Forever and always.
 

AGoodBoy

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
8,028
Reaction score
729
Genjutsu doesn't work.
Mo...ther...****er... Lmaoo

someone gets 1 shot. either amaterasu 1 shot, or kamui 1 shot.
 

Strawberry

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
10,051
Reaction score
404
In terms of speed, both are elites. Itachi countered Sages and Jinchūriki (that trounced Raikages) while Kakashi matched gated Gai and exchanged blows with cloaked Dōjutsu Jinchūriki.

However, when observing their shunshin usage, I do believe Itachi has the edge, because his shunshin was shown to be immensely impressive with or without being combined with clone creation.

For skirmishes, they are equal in hand-to-hand, but Itachi uses weapons to evoke Hachibi transformations, pierce multiple Rinnegan, and force even Sasuke to use a 'quickdraw-kuchiyose.'

Consequently, Kakashi will be outclassed in the opening skirmish, as Itachi's superhuman speed, particular to his hands, should dominate the warm ups. The battle thus progresses to ninjutsu.

At this point, Itachi retains some advantages in key areas. The first being that Itachi has the more efficient bunshin, which further compounds his advantage for Sharingan and style efficiency.

And while both Itachi and Kakashi can splurge on Raiton or Daibakuha Kage Bunshin, the presence of efficient yet powerful Karasu Bunshin awards Itachi an attritional advantage in caution.

Moreover, while Kakashi does have the nifty ability to combine bunshin with doton assaults, it should be noted that Itachi's Karasu Bunshin permitted him the same "drop" on Sasuke and Kabuto.

As for pew-pew offense, katons are much better in this match, because they are indeed lethal to non-cloaked, non-regenerating shinobi while also possessing a sizable area of effect.

The widespread dominance of raitons is only present against durable ninja... which Kakashi is not. The speed feats of Itachi's jutsu was further amplified in his Sage and Jinchūriki feats to boot.

This is likely a throwback to Itachi's sealing speed, as he can create jutsu "superhumanly" as Kurenai puts it, and allows him to preempt Sharingan precognition itself and arguably Sage senses.

As for intelligence, Itachi was never fairly outmaneuvered. In the instances reported, he was not only outnumbered, but was weakened or holding back according to his opponents.

The portrayal of Itachi, at this point, paints him as smarter. He figured out how to defeat Edo Tensei, countered Rinnegan tricks, and was praised as superhumanly perceptive above all Uchiha.

And then there's genjutsu. We've seen C's genjutsu be effective for openings. While the window was small, it was present, and Sasuke needed only a small window to defeat Danzō.

This may be why Kakashi learned to avoid Itachi's eyes, as he did against the clone, was most likely to avoid these small windows that could lead to Itachi's decisive victory.

However, Itachi still has the small trump card of his Sharingan crow to catch Kakashi in genjutsu, as he did against Naruto, and this could potentially give him the opening for victory in itself.

And then there's Izanami, which can put Kakashi into a short genjutsu by having him kill two Karasu Bunshin in a similar fashion, which is possible without his knowledge. Itachi gets his window.

Ultimately, we can rely on outdated feats to aid Kakashi's case, but that's not necessarily fair, because Itachi was always stated to be held back in some fashion. We ought to use the best.

And when viewing their best, Kakashi is not, and will never be, portrayed as an equal to Itachi in shinobi skill and insight. Kakashi lacks the "Itachi battle factor" that some confuse for "Gary Stu."

Itachi solos. Forever and always.

i can see your being generous here and i believe this only would happend if kakashi is on top of his game and in best possible fighting form
 

sasori345

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
2,112
Reaction score
56
Raiton > Suiton
Doton > Suiton
Suiton > Katon

Kakashi stomps .


Kakashi 1st gate + current speed improvements is clearly above Itachi in Taijutsu and Strengh

About pure speed i'd give it to Kakashi because he has gate and was able to to go in equall speed as Gai 6th gates vs Tobi+Jins.

Handseal speed, Itachi is slightly above but Kakashi part 1 proved that he can see thought his ninjutsu even if it was fast.

Stanima, Itachi has only 2.5, Kakashi has better stanima, and we know that his sharingan get used with him, the current Kakashi has nothing to do with the Kakashi who was exhausted after using 2 suiton and a clone vs Zabuza.

Kakashi win low dif, he'd win mid dif if you didn't restrict genjutsu.
 

scrmz

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
295
Reaction score
15
Without genjutsu and MS? Kakashi will eat him lol.
 
Last edited:

Lilt

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
2,195
Reaction score
322
Hey guys, let's count 30% sick, holding-back Itachi as Healthy Itachi.

Despite knowing that clones are inherently weaker than the original the less chakra they have.

And that Itachi's speed greatly suffered (as stated by Zetsu.)

Kakashi showed he could totally keep up.
 

pateuvasiliu

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
8,740
Reaction score
419
Surprisingly enough, I am putting Itachi under Kakashi as well.

His ninjutsu is simply nowhere close to Kakashi. Kakashi can counter every element he has, shuriken/gen jutsus are avoided with the sharingan, kakashi's raiton clone is superior to Itachi's.

I'd also dare say Kakashi is more intelligent than Itachi, seeing as how he is revered to be smarter than Shikamaru. Itachi was hyped by Hiruzen which doesn't tell us much and he found out how Chibaku Tensei works, which doesn't require a genius to do.

Meanwhile, Kakashi has had much more intelligence feats.

Speedwise, Kakashi is superior. Itachi's speed feats include fighting on par with Sasuke and that's about it. The fight against Naruto obviously doesn't count since Naruto wasn't fighting seriously. If he did, that would put Itachi on Raikage's level and that's just dumb.

Meanwhile, Kakashi was fighting -AND BEATING- v2 jins and keeping up with 6 gates Gai.

Kakashi also has summons which could help take down Itachi, whereas Itachi's crows don't really do much.
 

Izuna Kakashi Senju

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
3,036
Reaction score
147
I give this to Kakashi mid diff if genjutsu was added then this would be closer.

Ninjutsu:

Kakashi has counters for all of Itachi's ninjutsu arsenal, he has Doton to stop Itachi's Suiton he also has Suiton to put out Itachi's Katon's.

Taijutsu:

Both have a 4.5 in the databook in Taijutsu but Kakashi has the advantage here as he can open the first gate to increase his speed to give him a edge in CQC.

Intelligence:

Both of them are geniuses and can quickly analyze their opponent and as they both have alot of knowledge on each other it will come down to the one with the best tactic.

Stamina:

Kakashi's stamina has increased alot as seen in his battle against the edo jins+Obito fight and has a 3 in the databook while Itachi has a 2.5 and Kakashi's recent feats show he can easily outlast Itachi.

Speed:

Itachi is fast himself despite being sick was able to keep up with the fast Hebi Sasuke but Kakashi is faster being able to keep up with V2 Jins and Six gates Gai which are better feats than Itachi.

Conclusion:

It would be a good battle but Kakashi just has a huge advantage over Itachi and would take this fight mid diff.
 

SenninUchiha

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
I give this to Kakashi mid diff if genjutsu was added then this would be closer.

Ninjutsu:

Kakashi has counters for all of Itachi's ninjutsu arsenal, he has Doton to stop Itachi's Suiton he also has Suiton to put out Itachi's Katon's.

Taijutsu:

Both have a 4.5 in the databook in Taijutsu but Kakashi has the advantage here as he can open the first gate to increase his speed to give him a edge in CQC.

Intelligence:

Both of them are geniuses and can quickly analyze their opponent and as they both have alot of knowledge on each other it will come down to the one with the best tactic.

Stamina:

Kakashi's stamina has increased alot as seen in his battle against the edo jins+Obito fight and has a 3 in the databook while Itachi has a 2.5 and Kakashi's recent feats show he can easily outlast Itachi.

Speed:

Itachi is fast himself despite being sick was able to keep up with the fast Hebi Sasuke but Kakashi is faster being able to keep up with V2 Jins and Six gates Gai which are better feats than Itachi.

Conclusion:

It would be a good battle but Kakashi just has a huge advantage over Itachi and would take this fight mid diff.

You say that Itachi kept up with Hebi Sasuke, but you forgot that he also kept up with KCM Naruto and Bee, and you make it seem Kakashi being able to "keep up" with V2 Jins is an amazing feat, but none of them are perfect Jins and are about as powerful as a Tailed beast, which even Deidara was able to beat(3 Tails/Sanbi).

Kakashi's justu do counter most of Itachi's, but let's not forget that Itachi is considered a Genius and would hold his own in ninjustu with his clever tricks (Mizu Bunshin Explosion)

That being said, no Genjustu puts Itachi in much lower tier then usual, which is a bummer

Sadly I would have to give this to Kakashi high-diff
 

Enton

Member
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
401
Reaction score
41
You say that Itachi kept up with Hebi Sasuke, but you forgot that he also kept up with KCM Naruto and Bee, and you make it seem Kakashi being able to "keep up" with V2 Jins is an amazing feat, but none of them are perfect Jins and are about as powerful as a Tailed beast, which even Deidara was able to beat(3 Tails/Sanbi).

its not like naruto was moving at full speed. he didnt want to fight itachi or nagato, like he said. he did not use his full speed like when he avoided the raikage, blitz kisame etc. itachi is nowhere near as fast as km naruto's full speed.

itachi dodged base killer b. he wasnt using the 8 tails' chakra.
 

pateuvasiliu

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
8,740
Reaction score
419
Anyone saying Itachi is close to KCM Naruto in speed/taijutsu is retarded.
 

Lilt

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
2,195
Reaction score
322
Anyone saying Itachi is close to KCM Naruto in speed/taijutsu is retarded.

Naruto was never implied to be at all superior. If anything, Itachi casually blocked and evaded KCM.

You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images
 
Last edited:

adeshina365

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
485
Itachi stomps low diff.

These two ninjas aren't even on the same level.
 

EZQ

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
7,291
Reaction score
375
So no MS

Kamui is restricted for kakashi

Amaterasu susanoo and tsukuyomi are restricted for itachi

Kakashi in 3 tomoe mode has shown more impressive feats IMO
 
Top