Pre Crisis Superman >> Dragonball universe and narutoverse

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YellowFang

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I agree....
These people are just under DBZ illusion...

I can't see Goku doing anything to that literal god...
Superman can move faster, strike harder & fight longer... And in bright sunlight, Goku's ****ed.
 

VongolaX

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I don't know, man.
Super Saiyan God Goku and that Egyptian looking character can probably defeat Superman.

ssj god is weaker than ssj4, and it has been proven that modern day superman can kick ssj4 a$$.

/logic
 

SasoriOfTheRedSaand

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Pre-Crisis Superman literally has no weaknesses. Goku would get raped, and his Kamehameha would either get dodged (I already proved he's faster than light), or tanked. Goku can't do shit, people are just up his ass because he's an anime legend.
 

Kuzan

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This is a very touchy subject for many lol... It is kinda weird to read some of these comments to be honest. Seriously, who even gives a ****? You have 2 extremly powerfull guys existing in 2 different universes, you can never know for sure who would win.
 
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I said it once and i'll say it again "Superman wins, ok there's little to no competition here Sup wins.
 

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Yes we know it by now, but stop comparing comics to manga, they suck anyway
 

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Assuming non-GT, I will use both characters maximum levels of power for this battle. Pre Crisis Superman vs SS3 Goku post Buu timeskip. I don't really need to explain how powerful Superman is, even mentioning that Superman was unable to beat Flash in a footrace.

So I will focus on Goku. I want to start out by saying, no one knows exactly how powerful SS3 Goku is, as power levels stop being officially tracked after the Frieza saga, where Goku is stated to have a PL of 150 million. If you want my opinion on how I think his power scales up till the end of GT, you need only look at my sig. I will not attempt to use my fanmade power levels in a matchup like this though.

First, I think it's important to define what a power level is. An ordinary human has a power level of 5. It takes 27 PSI to crack open a human skull. In the first episode of Dragonball, Goku has a power level of 10. In that episode he is hit by a car and shot in the head by Bulma. Even a shot from a 9mm gun is over 30,000 PSI. Goku did not even bleed from that shot. The difference of 5 to 10 is a LOT more than double. This trend continues when Master Roshi blows up the moon with a power level of 140. The moon is about an 83rd of the weight of the Earth in mass. That's over 150 sextillion pounds worth of mass destroyed in a single shot. That is less than Pre Crisis Superman has been shown to lift with 1 arm, when he lifted 4 septillion pounds. Even so, it's an important thing to note.

It appears power levels do not scale linearly. It seems that each power level is more significant than the previous. If this pattern continues indefinitely, it's possible Goku is stronger than, or at least as strong as Pre Crisis Superman as early as the first episode of Dragonball z with his power level of over 950. During his fight with Vegeta, Vegeta threatens to blow up the Earth with a power level of 18,000. Some think that is a bluff, I think that would be out of character with Vegeta's personality, but that's another debate entirely.

Anywho, with the way power levels increase in DBZ, by the end of the Frieza saga Goku was likely capable of mass destruction on a galactic scale. Which brings me to my next point. Some will call this next point non-canon in the extreme as this is a movie reference. If you wish to do that, that's your choice. I do believe the movies follow the same "rules" as the anime/manga though. There is actually one power level stated to be higher than SS Frieza saga Goku. According to V-Jump magazing, LSS Broly has a power level of 1.4 billion.

Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie. That's a rather misleading term though, and probably doesn't mean what you think it does. In real life, a galaxy is 50-100 billion planets. There are about 600 sextillion planets in the observable universe. The South Galaxy in DBZ is not a typical real life galaxy, it is one quarter of the universe. So assuming our universes are the same size, Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast. I believe it's been shown that at higher super saiyan forms, possibly as early as FPSS, Goku is stronger than Broly. As a super saiyan 3, Goku is certainly more powerful than Broly, and super saiyan 3s have been shown to be able to break the laws of reality. So it's likely that SS3 Goku could destroy the universe, maybe even reality itself.

Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes.

How fast is Goku though? Well, there's only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In about 10 seconds, Goku's kamehameha wave reached from the Earth to the Sun, making it about 50 times faster than the speed of light. Therefore, anyone that can dodge SS1 Goku's kamehameha wave, or even see it, has to be at least 50 times faster than the speed of light. Why is seeing it important? In DBZ, there are many times that the characters move faster than other characters can see. So basically, any villain post SS1 that can keep up with Goku can move at least 50 times faster than lightspeed.

The other case is a little more extreme though. When Vegeta uses The Final Flash against Cell. It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star. The closest planet to our solar system is 10.5 lightyears away. That's 31556926 light seconds. It got there in only 20 seconds, therefore The Final Flash moves at least 1577846.3 times faster than lightspeed. And that was just ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta. Keep in mind perfect Cell saw this attack coming, yet is unable to see SS2 Gohan's movements. And SS3 Goku is obviously far stronger and faster. I don't think Goku would even need to transform to beat Pre Crisis Superman. He could likely kill him with a single finger. To put another nail in the coffin though, let's talk about fighting skills.

Goku is a world champion martial artist that continuously trains to better himself. Many times he has fought evenly with beings of similar or greater power. There is a time when Pre Crisis Superman loses his powers. During this time he has a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill. He has been trained in martial arts by Batman, but he is no world class fighter. Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds.

If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.


God, there is so much wrong with this post, my brain melted trying to read it. You say you will use non canon GT, but then you go and use the movie feats to back up your claims which are non canon also. Not to mention you base your calculations using power levels which are inconsistent as **** AND use the movie feats for those calculations. I don't have the time to pick through it to show you how wrong you are, but anyone who takes that seriously is dumb.

Buu could yell and rip the space time continuum as well as gotenks and ss3 goku is stronger then both of them not only that he can move faster then superman by being able to move INSTANTLY.

Goku >> SUPERMAN. NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT


Go take your fanboyism somewhere else. Anyone that has knowledge on both know for a fact pre crisis wins this. The death battle only used the modern Superman and he beat Goku. Superman was WAY undercalced it was ridiculous. Superman was put at a fraction of his real power just to give Goku a fighting chance in the Death Battle. Modern Superman can fly to the nearest galaxy and pick up a flower for Louis in the span of 10 secs(done in one of the Superman movies).

To the person I quoted above, nearest galaxy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sun in distances. Just Saiyan.

So because Gotenks and Buu can rip a hole in a pocket dimension just by yelling, he can beat Superman? Using what you said in a real debate would make you the laughing stock of anyone there. Instant transmission is yes instant, but you have to put your hand on your forehead, concentrate on a near lifesource, then teleport to said life to be able to use it. People saying Goku can just teleport Superman away from the sun is stupid because they don't even know how Goku's own technique works. Tell me, what lifesource do you know that isn't near a sun or star? Even if there was, how is Goku suppose to know its there. He wasn't even able to teleport to new Namek because it was too far away for him to sense. It's not like Goku has unlimited range on his Instant Transmission.

Even if Goku can dodge Superman's attacks using IT, Goku still has to hit Superman. Superman's reaction speeds are way higher then Goku. The Death Battle just made it so Superman could be hit to make it a good fight.


I haven't even got to how Superman can distort space and time. I'll answer it in your next quote.

You have no idea what instant means do you ?

There is no going faster then the speed of light.
Couldn't you at least afford one minute in science class ? lol
And i as i said earlier people not even stronger then goku can distort the universe by simply yelling.
Give it up and by that i mean any hopes in a career in science or winning this "argument"

In fiction, there is such a thing as going faster than light.

Scans of Goku yelling and being able to distort the universe? If Gotenks and Buu, who are arguably close to SSJ3 Goku in power were only able to create a small hole in a pocket dimension, how can Goku distort something as large as the universe.
This is the observable universe.
You must be registered for see images
Right click the photo and open it in a new tab so you can zoom in and out of stuff. Please tell me how Goku can destroy the universe. Make sure to back up your claims.


Now for Pre Crisis Superman, he actually almost destroyed the universe. He would have too if it wasn't for Spectre(The Presence aka God's right hand man) stopping him. Superman was traveling so fast, he broke out of the space time continuum and almost shattered the universe. Superman basically traveled to Heaven(well almost because he got stopped). Spectre commented saying if you had traveled further, you would have destroyed everything.

Now if you want to argue about reality warping I think that shows Superman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku.
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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here supes is stated as invulnerable and unbeatable
.
- ignited a star with heat vision
- his laugh caused an earthquake
- created a solar system
- turned a diamond into coal
- reignites a star
- a million year old superman splits the earth in half
- repels a star with his breath
- flies across multiple universes. goes so far that god has to stop him since he was threatening countless civilizations across all of Reality,
by shattering all of it's Universal barriers and nearly breaking into Heaven
- easily goes to the centre of a sun
- throws a guy sideways through time
- bizarro punched superman through time. he just flies back
- plays baseball with a moon
- flies into a supernova and is just a little dazed
- thousands of times faster than light, enough to go to ancient egypt casually ttp://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/156/11px9.gif/
- while weakened by red suns, still mashed asteroids together to form a small planet
- Superman intercepts a bomb that was meant to destroy the Earth and isn’t harmed at all
- catching and moving planet sized asteroids

- casually altered time
- flew Trillions of miles in SECONDS without exerting any effort
- casually traveled millions of years into the past
- not only extinguish a giant-star, but he was also able to propel the star forward towards his enemy, at a very fast rate with his Super-Breath
- when a powerful alien tried to use his telepathy against Superman, it overloaded the alien's mind, and he was killed
- sneezed away a solar system
- reclosed up a black hole to save earth
- threw a neutron star weighing trillions of tons, into another galaxy
- breathed an entire planet back into orbit
- moved an entire Galaxy of planets to a different location, take note that he dosen't appear to be struggleing in the slightest
- Superman and Supergirl fight Blackstarr, an extremely powerful cosmic reality warper. Feats for them include flying at warp speed, surviving gravity shockwaves from black holes, Supergirl surviving simultaneous blasts from multiple quasars (one quasar can emit as much energy as an entire galaxy), Superman surviving being blasted back by the force of a million gravities and smashing a planet apart as a result, Superman breaking through a "concentrated light beam" that would destroy anyone else, both of them attacking at FTL speed and moving so fast that they would pass thousands of light - years in an instant, flying through dimensions, flying to the edge of the universe, surviving a gravitational blast that reached across the entire universe and expanded it back to its normal size, keeping an eye on Blackstarr from across the universe the whole time, and flying back after the universe had expanded. What's even more amazing is that all of this was Bronze Age (immediately Pre - Crisis), where Superman and Supergirl were officially depowered and much weaker than they were in the Silver Age.

















Super Saiyan God Goku and that Egyptian looking character can probably defeat Superman.
they have no feats, and if they did its still nowhere near enough to even hurt pre crisis supes who has no weaknesses besides a red star

your retarded if you think Superman could beat anyone from DBZ
and your retarded for saying that and ignoring clear evidence supes > dbz

Goku and other saiyans would **** that rep caped noob.
meaning they would spend all day trying to hurt him whle supes sits there laughing

All you need to know is that he is not faster nor is he stronger then goku and he also needs the yellow sun to be powerful
wrong. pre crisis superman flew through a galaxy full of red suns, his only weakness, and was still performing godlike feats. he is millions of times faster than goku, he traveled across the universe in seconds (didnt teleport, but flew), and manipulated time itself. he went FTL inside earths atmosphere. as for stronger, tell me again when goku used his mere breath to move a star or when he played baseball with moons.
goku is from another solar system and doesn't need the yellow sun period
neither does pre crisis supes. and if he does its easy to go get some sun rays and come back to the figth in a milisecond

One touch and superman in light years away from the sun and instantly fried by a instant kamekameha
gokus kamehamhea would at best destroy a smallish star. superman took a supernova and is just a little dazed, not to mention actually closing up a black hole. his heat vision would ignite the star goku just blasted.
one touch and goku is thousands of years in the past. superman was trapped in the past. HE JUST FLEW BACK.

Buu could yell and rip the space time continuum as well as gotenks and ss3 goku is stronger then both of them not only that he can move faster then superman by being able to move INSTANTLY.

Goku >> SUPERMAN. NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT
no one can move faster than supes. he ripped the time barrier by punching it. and there was a time he flew so fast he almost broke down the walls of time and destroyed reality. goku is not stronger than gotenks. goku admitted that ssj1 gotenks pre rosat could defeat fat boo, making him comparable to gokus own ssj3. gotenks got far stronger in the rosat. goku was afraid of super buu. gotenks fought him on par.
nothing is faster than supermans speed feats. he went thousands of years into the past using speed alone. and he can mindrape goku. once superman created a solar system. CREATED A SOLAR SYSTEM.

Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes
much more than that. if you look at the scans i posted of his speed. he traverses the time barrier itself and almost destroyed the universe to the point where presence had to tell him to SLOW DOWN

Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill.
actually he is the premier fighter in his universe. of course anyone would suck if they lose everything that made them them. if you lost your ability to walk and move you would suck too.

Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie
filler. doesnt count. also the movie cant possibly take place in the main timeline since the kaio of that galaxy still has a job when pikkon shows up. meaning broly never showed up in the main timeline.

It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star.

do you really call that another solar system? it barely even got to mars

Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast.
how do you know it was one blast? wait..wait...oh yeah. your making shit up

only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In
irrelevant worthless filler

buu and gotenks who are not as strong as goku
yes they are

You have no idea what instant means do you ?

There is no going faster then the speed of light.
yes there is. according to comic and anime writers. its fiction.w e can do whatever we want



goku can make speed of any kind irrelevant by moving instantly meaning it does not matter how faster superman is goku will always in a sense be faster.
can goku nearly destroy the universe by flying really fast? can he travel thousands of years into the past or future with his speed? if not....then he cannot compete with superman

Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds.
darkseid? anti monitor? read a comic or just read respect threads
 

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White Crown Phoenix>Every fictional Universe.
 

ziggyZ

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Just comprehend the fact that the Prince of all Saiyans is >each and every verse ever created combine times 4.



#JustSaiyan
 
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