Pre Crisis Superman >> Dragonball universe and narutoverse

[Metronomy]

Superman sneezes

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[S a s o r i]

Me>superman.

Poison FTW

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Buu could yell and rip the space time continuum as well as gotenks and ss3 goku is stronger then both of them not only that he can move faster then superman by being able to move INSTANTLY.

Goku >> SUPERMAN. NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT

 

[Morgiana]

Assuming non-GT, I will use both characters maximum levels of power for this battle. Pre Crisis Superman vs SS3 Goku post Buu timeskip. I don't really need to explain how powerful Superman is, even mentioning that Superman was unable to beat Flash in a footrace.

So I will focus on Goku. I want to start out by saying, no one knows exactly how powerful SS3 Goku is, as power levels stop being officially tracked after the Frieza saga, where Goku is stated to have a PL of 150 million. If you want my opinion on how I think his power scales up till the end of GT, you need only look at my sig. I will not attempt to use my fanmade power levels in a matchup like this though.

First, I think it's important to define what a power level is. An ordinary human has a power level of 5. It takes 27 PSI to crack open a human skull. In the first episode of Dragonball, Goku has a power level of 10. In that episode he is hit by a car and shot in the head by Bulma. Even a shot from a 9mm gun is over 30,000 PSI. Goku did not even bleed from that shot. The difference of 5 to 10 is a LOT more than double. This trend continues when Master Roshi blows up the moon with a power level of 140. The moon is about an 83rd of the weight of the Earth in mass. That's over 150 sextillion pounds worth of mass destroyed in a single shot. That is less than Pre Crisis Superman has been shown to lift with 1 arm, when he lifted 4 septillion pounds. Even so, it's an important thing to note.

It appears power levels do not scale linearly. It seems that each power level is more significant than the previous. If this pattern continues indefinitely, it's possible Goku is stronger than, or at least as strong as Pre Crisis Superman as early as the first episode of Dragonball z with his power level of over 950. During his fight with Vegeta, Vegeta threatens to blow up the Earth with a power level of 18,000. Some think that is a bluff, I think that would be out of character with Vegeta's personality, but that's another debate entirely.

Anywho, with the way power levels increase in DBZ, by the end of the Frieza saga Goku was likely capable of mass destruction on a galactic scale. Which brings me to my next point. Some will call this next point non-canon in the extreme as this is a movie reference. If you wish to do that, that's your choice. I do believe the movies follow the same "rules" as the anime/manga though. There is actually one power level stated to be higher than SS Frieza saga Goku. According to V-Jump magazing, LSS Broly has a power level of 1.4 billion.

Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie. That's a rather misleading term though, and probably doesn't mean what you think it does. In real life, a galaxy is 50-100 billion planets. There are about 600 sextillion planets in the observable universe. The South Galaxy in DBZ is not a typical real life galaxy, it is one quarter of the universe. So assuming our universes are the same size, Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast. I believe it's been shown that at higher super saiyan forms, possibly as early as FPSS, Goku is stronger than Broly. As a super saiyan 3, Goku is certainly more powerful than Broly, and super saiyan 3s have been shown to be able to break the laws of reality. So it's likely that SS3 Goku could destroy the universe, maybe even reality itself.

Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes.

How fast is Goku though? Well, there's only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In about 10 seconds, Goku's kamehameha wave reached from the Earth to the Sun, making it about 50 times faster than the speed of light. Therefore, anyone that can dodge SS1 Goku's kamehameha wave, or even see it, has to be at least 50 times faster than the speed of light. Why is seeing it important? In DBZ, there are many times that the characters move faster than other characters can see. So basically, any villain post SS1 that can keep up with Goku can move at least 50 times faster than lightspeed.

The other case is a little more extreme though. When Vegeta uses The Final Flash against Cell. It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star. The closest planet to our solar system is 10.5 lightyears away. That's 31556926 light seconds. It got there in only 20 seconds, therefore The Final Flash moves at least 1577846.3 times faster than lightspeed. And that was just ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta. Keep in mind perfect Cell saw this attack coming, yet is unable to see SS2 Gohan's movements. And SS3 Goku is obviously far stronger and faster. I don't think Goku would even need to transform to beat Pre Crisis Superman. He could likely kill him with a single finger. To put another nail in the coffin though, let's talk about fighting skills.

Goku is a world champion martial artist that continuously trains to better himself. Many times he has fought evenly with beings of similar or greater power. There is a time when Pre Crisis Superman loses his powers. During this time he has a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill. He has been trained in martial arts by Batman, but he is no world class fighter. Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds.

If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

 

[VongolaX]

all star supes solo

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Buu could yell and rip the space time continuum as well as gotenks and ss3 goku is stronger then both of them not only that he can move faster then superman by being able to move INSTANTLY.

Goku >> SUPERMAN. NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT

Lmao at this guy. Superman can move THOUSANDS of times faster than the speed of light, which may as well be instant. Instant Transmission takes a few seconds of concentration, Superman can just blitz. Superman can chill under the sun like it's happy days, and not feel anything. Superman can tow 100+ planets at the same time. Superman destroyed a Solar System with a sneeze. Pre-Crisis Superman RAPES any DBZ character, low diff.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Assuming non-GT, I will use both characters maximum levels of power for this battle. Pre Crisis Superman vs SS3 Goku post Buu timeskip. I don't really need to explain how powerful Superman is, even mentioning that Superman was unable to beat Flash in a footrace.

So I will focus on Goku. I want to start out by saying, no one knows exactly how powerful SS3 Goku is, as power levels stop being officially tracked after the Frieza saga, where Goku is stated to have a PL of 150 million. If you want my opinion on how I think his power scales up till the end of GT, you need only look at my sig. I will not attempt to use my fanmade power levels in a matchup like this though.

First, I think it's important to define what a power level is. An ordinary human has a power level of 5. It takes 27 PSI to crack open a human skull. In the first episode of Dragonball, Goku has a power level of 10. In that episode he is hit by a car and shot in the head by Bulma. Even a shot from a 9mm gun is over 30,000 PSI. Goku did not even bleed from that shot. The difference of 5 to 10 is a LOT more than double. This trend continues when Master Roshi blows up the moon with a power level of 140. The moon is about an 83rd of the weight of the Earth in mass. That's over 150 sextillion pounds worth of mass destroyed in a single shot. That is less than Pre Crisis Superman has been shown to lift with 1 arm, when he lifted 4 septillion pounds. Even so, it's an important thing to note.

It appears power levels do not scale linearly. It seems that each power level is more significant than the previous. If this pattern continues indefinitely, it's possible Goku is stronger than, or at least as strong as Pre Crisis Superman as early as the first episode of Dragonball z with his power level of over 950. During his fight with Vegeta, Vegeta threatens to blow up the Earth with a power level of 18,000. Some think that is a bluff, I think that would be out of character with Vegeta's personality, but that's another debate entirely.

Anywho, with the way power levels increase in DBZ, by the end of the Frieza saga Goku was likely capable of mass destruction on a galactic scale. Which brings me to my next point. Some will call this next point non-canon in the extreme as this is a movie reference. If you wish to do that, that's your choice. I do believe the movies follow the same "rules" as the anime/manga though. There is actually one power level stated to be higher than SS Frieza saga Goku. According to V-Jump magazing, LSS Broly has a power level of 1.4 billion.

Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie. That's a rather misleading term though, and probably doesn't mean what you think it does. In real life, a galaxy is 50-100 billion planets. There are about 600 sextillion planets in the observable universe. The South Galaxy in DBZ is not a typical real life galaxy, it is one quarter of the universe. So assuming our universes are the same size, Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast. I believe it's been shown that at higher super saiyan forms, possibly as early as FPSS, Goku is stronger than Broly. As a super saiyan 3, Goku is certainly more powerful than Broly, and super saiyan 3s have been shown to be able to break the laws of reality. So it's likely that SS3 Goku could destroy the universe, maybe even reality itself.

Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes.

How fast is Goku though? Well, there's only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In about 10 seconds, Goku's kamehameha wave reached from the Earth to the Sun, making it about 50 times faster than the speed of light. Therefore, anyone that can dodge SS1 Goku's kamehameha wave, or even see it, has to be at least 50 times faster than the speed of light. Why is seeing it important? In DBZ, there are many times that the characters move faster than other characters can see. So basically, any villain post SS1 that can keep up with Goku can move at least 50 times faster than lightspeed.

The other case is a little more extreme though. When Vegeta uses The Final Flash against Cell. It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star. The closest planet to our solar system is 10.5 lightyears away. That's 31556926 light seconds. It got there in only 20 seconds, therefore The Final Flash moves at least 1577846.3 times faster than lightspeed. And that was just ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta. Keep in mind perfect Cell saw this attack coming, yet is unable to see SS2 Gohan's movements. And SS3 Goku is obviously far stronger and faster. I don't think Goku would even need to transform to beat Pre Crisis Superman. He could likely kill him with a single finger. To put another nail in the coffin though, let's talk about fighting skills.

Goku is a world champion martial artist that continuously trains to better himself. Many times he has fought evenly with beings of similar or greater power. There is a time when Pre Crisis Superman loses his powers. During this time he has a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill. He has been trained in martial arts by Batman, but he is no world class fighter. Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds.

If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

YOU didn't even need to delves that far in,though i do commend you for your effort.
As i previously mentioned buu and gotenks who are not as strong as goku can already distort reality by simply yelling and goku can make speed of any kind irrelevant by moving instantly meaning it does not matter how faster superman is goku will always in a sense be faster.

Goku is also not from planter earth meaning he doesn't need the yellow sun to survive meaning if goku even touched superman once he can transport him somewhere else away from his power source.

 

[Elio]

This argument, again. Does it even really matter? Yes both characters are extremely strong, big whoop.

 

[xjimbox]

I've seen this type of thread a million times.. There is not a logical argument with this fight... seeing how both are different universes and both op..

 

[IchisaMiku]

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Its a fact that Superman beats Goku.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Lmao at this guy. Superman can move THOUSANDS of times faster than the speed of light, which may as well be instant. Instant Transmission takes a few seconds of concentration, Superman can just blitz. Superman can chill under the sun like it's happy days, and not feel anything. Superman can tow 100+ planets at the same time. Superman destroyed a Solar System with a sneeze. Pre-Crisis Superman RAPES any DBZ character, low diff.

You have no idea what instant means do you ?

There is no going faster then the speed of light.
Couldn't you at least afford one minute in science class ? lol
And i as i said earlier people not even stronger then goku can distort the universe by simply yelling.
Give it up and by that i mean any hopes in a career in science or winning this "argument"

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

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Its a fact that Superman beats Goku.

The man knew next to nothing about dbz and clearly had a hard on for superman.
All you need to know is that he is not faster nor is he stronger then goku and he also needs the yellow sun to be powerful
goku is from another solar system and doesn't need the yellow sun period.
One touch and superman in light years away from the sun and instantly fried by a instant kamekameha .

Now i don't know what exactly goes through superman fans heads when they read this all i can say is actually look up what both can do and you will see this is no contest.

 

[VongolaX]

YOU didn't even need to delves that far in,though i do commend you for your effort.
As i previously mentioned buu and gotenks who are not as strong as goku can already distort reality by simply yelling and goku can make speed of any kind irrelevant by moving instantly meaning it does not matter how faster superman is goku will always in a sense be faster.

Goku is also not from planter earth meaning he doesn't need the yellow sun to survive meaning if goku even touched superman once he can transport him somewhere else away from his power source.

He opened up a dimension through yelling, they have no feat of warping reality. The best dbz have to offer is blow up a single planet, or suppose to at least.

 

[Fecal Matter]

Goku and other saiyans would **** that rep caped noob.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

You have no idea what instant means do you ?

There is no going faster then the speed of light.
Couldn't you at least afford one minute in science class ? lol
And i as i said earlier people not even stronger then goku can distort the universe by simply yelling.
Give it up and by that i mean any hopes in a career in science or winning this "argument"

It's sad how you resort to insulting my intelligence. You want to know something? Real life logic doesn't apply here, if it did, you wouldn't have these men blowing planets up for fun. You would think people would understand this by now.

Who can't travel faster than light?

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Fail on your part.

 

[Pragmatic]

Dude its batman>>>Superman your retarded if you think Superman could beat anyone from DBZ

 

[Sea Of Thy Soul]

I don't know, man.
Super Saiyan God Goku and that Egyptian looking character can probably defeat Superman.

 

[-Raviel-]

You have no idea what instant means do you ?

There is no going faster then the speed of light.
Couldn't you at least afford one minute in science class ? lol
And i as i said earlier people not even stronger then goku can distort the universe by simply yelling.
Give it up and by that i mean any hopes in a career in science or winning this "argument"

They're cartoon characters man so there's no applying real-life logic here...

 

[VongolaX]

Dude its batman>>>Superman your retarded if you think Superman could beat anyone from DBZ

I wanna know what retard came up with this^^

 

[BazzBee]

Aka Ramen Guy could beat him by adding Green light in his Raman