[Discussion] True power of the Rinnegan?

[valandil988]

Can an awakened (Ie a true user like Madara) Rinnegan user die?

I'm serious, doesn't Banbutsu Sōzō basically mean that the user can use Izanagi without any penalties whenever they wish? So doesn't that mean the a true user of the Rinnegan, one that knows what he or she is doing simply can't die in combat or maybe even ever? Unless they are depleted of chakra? Which is unlikely to happen against the enemies they might be facing unless they have an awakened Rinnegan themselves.

Is it possible that they can stop themselves from dieing ever or at least as long as they wished...a form of true invincibility? I mean we know the Sage died but maybe he let himself die...wasn't he supposed to be a priest? Maybe he took a philosophical take on life lol.

Kinda stupid though if you had that kinda power wouldn't he just live forever to contain the Juubi? If so and he died because Banbutsu Sōzō has limitations then what might they be?

Just a thought any ideas?

 

[KCMNaruto]

I agree with you.

Full Potential of Rinnengan is simply unlimited

Rinnengan user can use any jutsu he wants

There is only one limit to Creation of All things and that would be Jyuubi chakra.

Besides in my theory:

Sage of six paths= God powers + human body

Juubi= God powers + chakra form(indestructible)

Human body has limited lifespan by how much long it can last, so it could be reason why Sage of six paths died. Juubi's god powers probably blocked or countered Sage of six paths's god powers, that why he couldn't use Creation of all things to live longer.

There possibility that Sage of six paths believed in order of world, cycle of life or something so he let himself die, but it would be stupid in my opinion.

 

[Klue]

Can an awakened (Ie a true user like Madara) Rinnegan user die?

I'm serious, doesn't Banbutsu Sōzō basically mean that the user can use Izanagi without any penalties whenever they wish? So doesn't that mean the a true user of the Rinnegan, one that knows what he or she is doing simply can't die in combat or maybe even ever? Unless they are depleted of chakra? Which is unlikely to happen against the enemies they might be facing unless they have an awakened Rinnegan themselves.

Is it possible that they can stop themselves from dieing ever or at least as long as they wished...a form of true invincibility? I mean we know the Sage died but maybe he let himself die...wasn't he supposed to be a priest? Maybe he took a philosophical take on life lol.

Kinda stupid though if you had that kinda power wouldn't he just live forever to contain the Juubi? If so and he died because Banbutsu Sōzō has limitations then what might they be?

Just a thought any ideas?

Not necessarily.

Banbutsu Sōzō and Izanagi aren't the same technique. They just follow similar principles, or it would be better to say, that both fall under the same branch of Ninjutsu. Banbutsu Sōzō and Izanagi are two examples of Onmyoton (Yin/Yang Release) - just as Amaterasu and the Uchiha Clan's Grand Fireball Technique are two examples of Katon (Fire Release) Ninjutsu.

In Conclusion:

Banbutsu Sōzō isn't a better version of Izanagi. Two separate techniques that follow similar principles but accomplish two different but specific task.

Banbutsu Sōzō, creates life; Izanagi, recreates the user so that they can avoid death and injury.

 

[valandil988]

Not necessarily.

Banbutsu Sōzō and Izanagi aren't the same technique. They just follow similar principles, or it would be better to say, that both fall under the same branch of Ninjutsu. Banbutsu Sōzō and Izanagi are two examples of Onmyoton (Yin/Yang Release) - just as Amaterasu and the Uchiha Clan's Grand Fireball Technique are two examples of Katon (Fire Release) Ninjutsu.

In Conclusion:

Banbutsu Sōzō isn't a better version of Izanagi. Two separate techniques that follow similar principles but accomplish two different but specific task.

Banbutsu Sōzō, creates life; Izanagi, recreates the user so that they can avoid death and injury.

I don't know, I'm not sure I agree when you say Izanagi is a similar jutsu to Banbutsu Sōzō its more accurate to say that Banbutsu Sōzō can be applied to a host of applications including an effect like Izanagi. Its said that Izanagi is derived from Banbutsu Sōzō but is limited to only effecting yourself.

Banbutsu Sōzō seems to have the ability to manipulate the physical and spiritual in all forms from pure chakra of yin/yang without an elemental type. So I would guess that the Creation of All things is exactly what is says on the tin....Ie it is a pure expression of Onmyoton not a singular aspect. You could do anything with Onmyoton just as you could do anything with Banbutsu Sōzō the technique embodies its realm its only limited by imagination. Ie a god tech lol

With Banbutsu Sōzō you could use Mokuton, Bone-pulse or even dust release. You could imagine these effects and enforce them on reality at your whim...it wouldn't be a nature release at all but it would have the same effects as if someone with those capabilities was actually present...a user of Banbutsu Sōzō just cuts straight to the chase and effects reality directly without messing about with elemental techniques.

The way I read it Banbutsu Sōzō doesnt just create "Life" though it can do that if you want to, it can create the physical and the spiritual....Ie the creation of all things....


Well I suppose with Bone-Pulse you would need to know exactly how it works lol....no need to pull out your own spine lol.

 

[6PathsofKami]

Hmm I guess you can't use creation of all things on your self? Maybe create a new body everytime you get old and transfer your soul with the power of the 6 path that sucks soul?

 

[valandil988]

Hmm I guess you can't use creation of all things on your self? Maybe create a new body everytime you get old and transfer your soul with the power of the 6 path that sucks soul?

But You must be able to use Banbutsu Sōzō on yourself, Izanagi is apparently derived from it so it must be possible.

I was entertaining the same thoughts about body creation....I mean why the hell not? But the one weakness of this technique is its scope you could in theory use it for anything literally...I mean would the SO6P have thought of all the different ways he could use Banbutsu Sōzō? We don't know I can't imagine someone like Naruto figuring it out.

I mean the Rinnegan jutsu themselves may be an example of Onmyoton, honestly you only need Banbutsu Sōzō as a jutsu for the Rinnegan because it makes all the other powers of the paths possible lol, even if there is no real explanation for why the work...Overall Banbutsu Sōzō has to be the most OP thing in the whole Naruto world.

 

[Klue]

I don't know, I'm not sure I agree when you say Izanagi is a similar jutsu to Banbutsu Sōzō its more accurate to say that Banbutsu Sōzō can be applied to a host of applications including an effect like Izanagi. Its said that Izanagi is derived from Banbutsu Sōzō but is limited to only effecting yourself.

Banbutsu Sōzō seems to have the ability to manipulate the physical and spiritual in all forms from pure chakra of yin/yang without an elemental type. So I would guess that the Creation of All things is exactly what is says on the tin....Ie it is a pure expression of Onmyoton not a singular aspect. You could do anything with Onmyoton just as you could do anything with Banbutsu Sōzō the technique embodies its realm its only limited by imagination. Ie a god tech lol

With Banbutsu Sōzō you could use Mokuton, Bone-pulse or even dust release. You could imagine these effects and enforce them on reality at your whim...it wouldn't be a nature release at all but it would have the same effects as if someone with those capabilities was actually present...a user of Banbutsu Sōzō just cuts straight to the chase and effects reality directly without messing about with elemental techniques.

The way I read it Banbutsu Sōzō doesnt just create "Life" though it can do that if you want to, it can create the physical and the spiritual....Ie the creation of all things....


Well I suppose with Bone-Pulse you would need to know exactly how it works lol....no need to pull out your own spine lol.

I respect your theory, definitely an awesome read, but it's not inline with how Obito explained the "Creation of All Things." Reading your post, it appears to me that you're placing too much stock in the idea that both Banbutsu Sōzō and Izanagi are jutsu that make fantasy reality (connection illusion with reality), without considering how this is done. Obito specifically explained how Banbutsu Sōzō connects reality with illusion - he did not describe it as a reality warping ability.

Banbutsu Sōzō connects illusion with reality by taking entities Rikudou would imagine and giving them a physical presence in the real world. Yin is used to give shape to the life forms he imagined in his head, and Yang is used to instill those forms with life. That's how he created the Bijuu.

Again, Yin gives physical form/shape to his imagination and Yang gives those forms life. Izanagi is an application of Banbutsu Sōzō, because it follows those same principles: using Yin/Yang to give shape and form (but as you said, Izanagi is applied to the user).

That's a very detailed description: Giving life to entities that were originally formed in his imagination (a dreamscape, fantasy, illusion).

 

[Klue]

Holy Crap!

I made a mistake in my original response to you valandil988. It's been sometime since I tackled this topic, so forgive me. Banbutsu Sōzō is an ability, not a technique. Rikudou used an unnamed technique that is a type of Banbutsu Sōzō, Izanagi is also a type of Banbutsu Sōzō:


Izanagi is a technique based upon Rikudou's ability to create. Rikudou's unnamed creation technique is on the same level as Izanagi - not in a power sense, but as a way to categorize the two.

Think of it like this:
Genjutsu is a branch of Ninja Arts that uses Yin (Shadow Style) chakra. Tsukyomi is a type of Genjutsu, therefore it uses Yin-Release chakra.

Banbutsu Sōzō. is a branch of Ninja Arts that uses Onmyōton (Yin-Yang) chakra. Rikudou's unnamed technique and Izanagi are both types of Banbutsu Sōzō; therefore, they use Onmyōton chakra.

 

[Mellanoma]

Interesting topic! I agree with what OP said earlier about him wanting to die.

I believe he chose to die considering he was a priest and believed in the natural order of things.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Interesting topic! I agree with what OP said earlier about him wanting to die.

I believe he chose to die considering he was a priest and believed in the natural order of things.

I agree completly, exactly my thoughts

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