【NB Debate Tourney: Draegod vs.1TimeOnly】

Erin

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This is not allowed. You basically added more points to your argument!

What i did was comment to Frikid about why i didnt do so and so etc etc. Not create a whole other argument. My post was for frikid not you, so why are you still trying to debate what i said??? I had plenty more argument, and didnt even get to halfe of what i had to debate with, but i stopped because of time constrant. And it was you who Made sure it was no others debating correct??? It was you who took in entire day to make an argument waisting my time!

Is this even allowed??????

I added nothing to my argument, I pointed out things that solo seemed to miss in the evaluation (things that where already in my argument), since you commented on frikid's post, but I put a note in case it wasn't ok. So, no I was simply stating what you and solo seemed to have missed in my argument, as the quotes below show. I did exactly what you did basically.
But hopefully if im not allowed to do that, then Tragic Nous or a judge will correct me.
Seeing how Orochimaru and the cursed seal of heaven cost Sasuke substantial amounts of chakra, even after using 4 MS techniques Itachi is still shown standing while Sasuke in exhaustion relies on his Yamata no. Jutsu.
Itachi could also stall long enough to defeat Sasuke with Izanami, which does NOT require Mangekyo Sharingan.
and Izanami (neither the Izanami or Izanagi require MS) are definite kills.

Sasuke had awakened his mangekyo sharingan in chapter 43, the databook was made after chapter 44. It was included in that analysis of statistics, so respectively, if both of them are stripped, their proficiency should change but remain with the same ratio
2) As Sasuke has shown no knowledge of such a jutsu (flood of snakes) , it's only pure speculation that he has the knowledge to use such a jutsu. But in the case of this jutsu being used, as a Ninja, itachi can simply proceed up the wall to ovoid being overtaken.
 
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Tragic Nous

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Vote


Stop with the arguing, it's annoying...

Other:

No, neither claims “after” the initial argument [page 1] will be counted. Frikid’s charge will be ignored; furthermore, my reasoning for my vote is as followed:



One-Time:

Firstly,the databook does not “accurately” measure Itachi Uchiha, as it includes his entitlements of the Mangekyō Sharingan; therefore your initial point “is” moot. Obviously, because of this, Itachi’s overall score lowered, Sasuke on the hand “is” relatively true, but “can” be argued.

The terrain and your angle of approach—while interesting— is not necessity. I’ll score you positively simply because it is just fair enough to pass as a doable assessment. Draegod could have also argued this and my view would remain seated.

The majority of your argument is situated around “what Itachi can do”, why not further this? You give no additional information that could assist your claim, as to "why.” Why should I believe your statement that Itachi’s Suiton techniques would serve Itachi better than Sasuke: where is the supporting evidence? Sasuke has been display to be quite the tactician as well, deceiving his technique’s aim from Itachi to incorporate both into Kirin’s creation.

Why should I believe that Sasuke will not do the same to the bulk of your mentioning: what is preventing Sasuke from turning Itachi’s assaults against him?

I honestly do not know why you included Kotoamatsukami; it needs Itachi’s Mangekyō Sharingan to be used—which in case you have forgotten is prohibited. Furthermore, you recite the same calling “what Itachi can do.” Itachi using Izanagi would be a last resort; a resort attributed to circumstantial instances that you do not expand upon— instances that even if Izanagi is used, may serve him to fatality; Sasuke has demonstrated the ability to deceive its workings to the user. Itachi would sacrifice his eye for potentially nothing gained. For Izanami to be actualized, Itachi literally must bear the same sensations as Sasuke for the technique to work. However; because you lacked detailing “how” Itachi would evoke such a situation, I find the chance of Itachi using the technique to win, a bit stretching.



Draegod:

Your opening claim that Itachi cannot defat Sasuke with Genjutsu because of the Curse Seal was not needed. Sasuke prove he could withstand Itachi’s Genjutsu by the exertion of his Sharingan, something both combatants have a great skill applying to their desired performance. The Curse Seal in this case will simply serve as a boost for Sasuke negating Itachi’s illusions.

Sasuke beginning the by using Mandara no Jin is unsubstantiated, as it’s speculation. Even if Sasuke does possess the Curse Seal, there is a limit to what Sasuke can do, and it would have served better if your claims were based on Sasuke’s actually performance with the Curse Seal. Therefore, you starting the battle in that fashion is not valid.

Branching into your other claims, One-Time has accurately refuted that Itachi’s reaction time has suffered from his sickness. It has not, but his movements have. Thus, Sasuke capitalizing on Itachi’s declined reflexes are not applicable, but Sasuke capitalizing on Itachi’s weakened movement is. You noted the former, which is not persuasive enough for me.

I agree that thanks to the Curse Seal, Sasuke’s Taijutsu ability is overall higher than Itachi’s, for the Curse Seal increase his repertoire; giving him more abilities to use in close combat that Itachi would have to find counters—which may potentially deplete his chakra more quickly depending on the method used. The added benefits of Sasuke’s Curse Seal is its relatively swift recovery that it bestows on him; having absorbed Orochimaru; Sasuke obviously can battle longer and the effects of his jutsu’s are amplified.

Sasuke using Manda is dicey, but does as Draegod mentioned can end the battle. One-Time claim that Itachi will simply neutralize in two ways:


  • Shurikenjutsu
  • Genjutsu
Both cases temporarily leave Itachi open for an attack, and because of such a possibility, Sasuke [as Draegod says], would have used Manda efficiently; distracting Itachi for a time to Sasuke could land a hit.

Vote: Draegod, his reasons were essentially more detailed than his opponent's.
 
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DrProof

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Tragic Nous, you broke my heart. I was going to win this tournament had I been permitted to participate. You denied me the privilege of winning, and for that I cry.
I will carry on your spirit; I will win.
Dont worry! I'm sure if the rest of the Tournament goes well there will be another one like this!
I will avenge your loss.
 

Omnipotent

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Looks like I wasn't the first to judge :rolleyes:

1TimeOnly, your initial arguments were good, but then you fell off when Draegod capitalized. Bringing up Izanami was a good point, however (although you did that late into your argument, is that allowed? (editing your original argument)). Personally, I don't think you should have included Itachi using clones at all. Like said by Draegod, they could be dealt with by the snakes, costing Sasuke no chakra whereas Itachi would be wasting his. You were under the assumption that Itachi's suiton would be able to match Sasuke's katon, but would it really?

Draegod, you took advantage of the fact that Sasuke had amazingly impressive recovery powers (even when not in CSM Level 2), in addition to the fact that he would simply outlast Itachi, and that non-Mangekyou genjutsu would not work on him.

So I give this to Draegod.
Next time I call going first, it turns out there's not much to say when you're second to last :|
 

SasoriOfTheRedSaand

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1timeonly
Let me just say you did brilliantly by highlighting Itachi's abilities, but you needed to elaborate! You did an excellent job of telling us what he could do, but you didn't properly explain why or how he could use this to his advantage!

Your opening argument was more or less strong, but at the same time, it contained many flaws. As the other two have already mentioned, the Databook accurately records Itachi's stats with the MS, thus making your original argument less reliable. Your terrain argument was actually quite clever, although I do not think it would have helped your recurring debate with Draegod in the long run, it was however, a nice addition. Your ninjutsu claims are more or less accurate, as Suiton indeed overpowers Katon, just as water conducts electricity. I did, however disagree with you Tai/Kenjutsu claims. While Itachi has shown to be extremely proficient in wielding Kunai, Sasuke, while facing Yamato, disproved your statement. Draegod never mentioned it however, so it's all good. Sasuke was easily able to channel a lightning current through his sword, rendering his Kunai useless. The same method can be applied against Itachi. I wish you would have elaborated on your clones section, to be honest. You did an excellent job of explaining it, but you lacked in detail as to how Itachi can countermeasure Sasuke's attacks. Just claiming his clones can be used as a distraction while Itachi can counter his Ninjutsu is simply not enough for me.

While indeed Itachi is superior in Genjutsu, Sasuke has really shown the efficiency to counter or break all Genjutsu, should he exhaust his 3T enough. I wouldn't count on Itachi having Sasuke in a Genjutsu, especially since Sasuke has already been shown to break Tsukuyomi. On the positive note however, your counteraction of Sasuke's shuriken jutsu was spot on, I'd say. It's true the MS is what impaired his vision, and with superior reflexes and speed, this won't be a problem this time.

What really caught my eye though, was your lack of elaboration. You would make a decent opening statement, touching on methods which could prove troublesome for Sasuke, but then you just stop. The lacking detail just wasn't enough for me. Your KA claims are futile, as it's triggered to react to Itachi's MS, which is restricted. The rest of your rebuttals was stationed on countering everything Draegod is saying, where I believe one should take the debate further, instead on fixing on a few things. This debate at one point became centered around whether Itachi can counter Manda or not, move on, and carry on with the debate.

Draegod

Your opening lines concerning the location wasn't needed at all, as they supported no further claims in the rest of your argument. As well, you seem to have forgotten Sasuke hadn't aligned himself with Obito at that time. Also, while Sasuke may have all or Orochimaru's snake abilities is questionable, and debatable. Sasuke has been shown to use multiple jutsu created by Orochimaru himself, but since Sasuke hasn't actually shown this jutsu himself, I wouldn't think it's quite fair, adding to Sasuke's arsenal when the manga hadn't displayed the said feats.

While it is infact true Itachi has been shown to display late reactions at times, I am inclined to believe it is because of his impaired vision, as seen with Itachi not being able to properly dodge the shuriken. This, however, isn't a problem as the MS is restricted. Your countermeasures for clones was quite suitable, I'd say. Good use of making use of Sasuke's then snake summons. You lacked a bit in your Taijutsu rebuttal, as Sasuke did in-fact get outmaneuvered by Itachi at the beginning of the fight, and saying Sasuke wasn't serious at the time isn't really a counter at all, it sounds more like an excuse. Then you go off and claim Chidori Nagashi can dispatch of Itachi's clones. While he can potentially do so, that IS if all three of them go into ambush Sasuke, which I doubt. Also, Itachi's clone explosion trick could possibly resolve that. Since 1time hadn't properly countered it though, it's calm. You did however make up for the Taijutsu case, as the Cursed seal does increase his overall capabilities. You used Manda brilliantly, and I feel as if Itachi infact doesn't have enough if his arsenal to take it out of the picture,especially since Sasuke will be there, further pressuring Itachi. Let me close upby saying the body shedding exhausts a tremendous amount of chakra, using it would most likely hinder Sasuke's performance. He really used it as a last resort.

Winner: Draegod. I do feel as if the match-up was unfair though, Hebi Sasuke has the clear advantage, and without MS, he's extremely limited.
 
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