[Discussion] You're mistaking the cause for the end
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Sefirosu Masamune
Active member
The cause of konoha plunging into darkness. the reason the uchiha wanted to rebel and got massacred. Hashirama thought killing madara would save the village but it would still be destroyed by hatred.
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FreakensteinAG
Active member
"You're looking at the tree, not the whole forest" -- Nagato
So his plans were part of something much greater.
So his plans were part of something much greater.
Ohh, I get it. Madara wasn't trying to destroy Konoha as a "goal" but as a "way" to achieve his true goal which was the dream (peace) world.
Well, I think Hashi did the right thing stopping him, like Naruto stopping Nagato. True peace cannot be achieved through war.
The problem is Hashi couldn't stop Madara from destroying the village unless he killed him. Unlike Nagato, who reasoned with Naruto and decided not to destroy the village, I don't think Madara would have ceased in his goal.
UnrealSoul
Active member
Incorrect...
He always knew that their will be opposing forces from within konoha and out that will disrupt the peace. But the internal forces where much more dangerous then the external.
Examples.
Tobimara/ Senju
Danzou/ Village elders
Orochimaru
These 3 factors single handed shaped the narutoverse after hashi's death.
thunderghost
Member
I think Madara might have realized something after seeing the uchiha tablet...
Earlier People were fighting in the name of their Clans.. but later people started villages and fighting in the name of their Villages..
Madara might have forseen something similar to this 1.. and couldn't explain it at that point of time..
and Uchiha having a threat internally from Senju.. as the village is formed very recently & senju & uchiha still dont trust each other fully..
SO a spy from another village can easily sabotage and destroy relationship b/w senju & Uchiha and make them kill each other eventually..
Earlier People were fighting in the name of their Clans.. but later people started villages and fighting in the name of their Villages..
Madara might have forseen something similar to this 1.. and couldn't explain it at that point of time..
and Uchiha having a threat internally from Senju.. as the village is formed very recently & senju & uchiha still dont trust each other fully..
SO a spy from another village can easily sabotage and destroy relationship b/w senju & Uchiha and make them kill each other eventually..
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Prometheus Beta
Active member
The cause is what the village represents, their dream of striving for a more peaceful world, the end is the village itself; this is what I think the author is portraying as the ideological disposition of Tobirama/Danzo, to Tobirama and Danzo, for example, the end that is the protection of the village justifies the means even if the means (alienating and slaughtering the Uchiha) was antithetical to the cause that came to embody the village in the first place.
He said it two or three episodes ago. To protect his brother, and his clan. And since he failed and is not the type to give up, he presumably decided that if he could not do it in the real world, he'd create a dream world where this would be the reality.
Uzumakisan
Member
Hashirama was thinking about the Village Scheme as final peace.
Madara as a final threat. But as Minato said, there will aways be a new "Pain". And the world will be in war.
Madara as a final threat. But as Minato said, there will aways be a new "Pain". And the world will be in war.
Spontaneously signed in cuz of this. If you think about it, the end ALWAYS justifies the means. Like nagato said, you must not only watch one tree, but the whole forest. So the right question would be: What is a good end and how can you archieve it? This is why i think its a shame that both danzo and tobirama are portrayed as the bad guys.
I do also think that its not clear wether madaras/obitos moons eye plan is bad or not since they still didnt explain how it would work exactly. If everyone could forever live happy and peacefully in infinite tsukuyomi, it wouldnt make any difference wether this peace is 'real' or 'fake'.
So in the end madara could indeed be right and is just able to see the whole forest
I do also think that its not clear wether madaras/obitos moons eye plan is bad or not since they still didnt explain how it would work exactly. If everyone could forever live happy and peacefully in infinite tsukuyomi, it wouldnt make any difference wether this peace is 'real' or 'fake'.
So in the end madara could indeed be right and is just able to see the whole forest
