[Discussion] Tobirama's grudge and hashi's choice...

[Nishant Sutariya]

tobirama was not good and not seeing uchihas a part of village ever.....

- Tobirama was full of hatred towards Madara and uchihas.Even after killing Izuna, he can not put all a side where as Madara as a leader who lost his brother on hand of Tobirama still ready for forming village.He did for protecting his clan and was ready for taking charge of Hokage cause hashi thought he will make it as he knew him well that Madara really want to protect his clan so giving him title make the village safe.

-Hashirama knew that Hatred in tobirama is causing trouble for Madara.But he chose his brother over Madara in knowing that tobirama is ill treating Madara and never did trusting Madara like hashirama.

-No doubt Hashirama was a great person who did all and made his dream true.(no one can like him not even Naruto can surpass him the way he did all for village and people.)(only 1 thing i want to say for him is if he had not chosen tobirama over madara cause at that time madara was more likable to be hokage than tobirama..)

-Madara did know the UCHIHA tablet meaning..so he tried first meaning which says if BOTH SENJU AND UCHIHA combines, true happiness will be achieved..but he saw that even after cooperation people like Tobirama are not trusting and doubting him.(silent fight)

-his fears are clear as if 2nd hokage will be tobirama, he will surely mistrust uchiha and ill treat them.

-He might be wrong but tobirama did by indirectly the way he put all uchihas out of village and mistreated them.

-he knew the affects of Sharingan but never understand that it only happened when you hurt them and try to attack them...he can use them well and treat well instead of being harsh towards them.

-Madara saw that first option which tablet suggest is not working and false...he went ahead for 2nd option for creating peace in his way by obtaining rinnegan and infinite tsukoyomi.

-so its all happened because of politics by tobirama where good person turned out bad because he was leader...he wanted to protect clan and people..he wanted peace even after losing brother...he turned bad after knowing that people are not trusting him and acknowledge him because of tobirama and other senjus. His people trusted Hashirama but understand after tobirama became hokage..after tobirama, all blame them for kyubi attack and other clans showed them their real face by doubting them....i accept that they gained power through hatred but that does not mean that they will not become hokage...people like Itachi and shisui were there...who are really more good than tobirama...they are uchihas but they really know the meaning of will of fire and hashirama's ideals...if they can trust senjus than i do not think that senjus have reason for not trusting them as same other than they have grudge towards uchihas....

One should stand for good and should trust each other when you are going to build a village.Egos and grudges should be on side when all are in one place and past should be in past, otherwise things turns out like this recent manga....agree ??...

 

[Sherlock.]

Kishi is a pro at depicting human emotions....
I think Tobirama was right on his part.... People often are biased between their own clansmen and others.... Kishi just showed it.... Its nothing new to our real world....

OT - BTW what's your age bro..??

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

Yeah, another "blame Tobirama thread". . . . . . . . . :erm:

 

[Nishant Sutariya]

Kishi is a pro at depicting human emotions....
I think Tobirama was right on his part.... People often are biased between their own clansmen and others.... Kishi just showed it.... Its nothing new to our real world....

OT - BTW what's your age bro..??

Hmm...views are different for all on one thing...here also...all have different views towards new Manga.....
check your inbox....

 

[wildstorm]

Why are people so blind ?
Tobirama isnt hating uchiha because they were his enemies, he's hating them because uchiha's enemity isnt still gone(even after the founding of village,he can still see the spark in their eyes )....so definitely someone has to be cautious !!

 

[Sherlock.]

Yeah, another "blame Tobirama thread". . . . . . . . . :erm:

Yeah.... People just start blaming a character after reading one single chapter....

OT - BTW Bro Tobirama is a boss but I don't think his attack wound killed Izuna.... I feel Madara did it....

 

[Trevor]

Yes Tobirama is so evil for wanting to decide who would be the 1st hokage by ways of democracy.

 

[Nishant Sutariya]

Yeah, another "blame Tobirama thread". . . . . . . . . :erm:

I do not hate tobirama...but his actions as Kishi wrote in manga....i am not blaming him..but his actions are not good as hashirama...his ideals are far from what hashirama wanted...i accept that he did well as Hokage but he also made mistaked in understanding uchihas..that my point..

 

[Gatsuuga]

Yes Tobirama is so evil for wanting to decide who would be the 1st hokage by ways of democracy.

Haha, how could tobirama ever suggest such a terrible thing. Clearly the only logical response is to attack the leaf then try to destroy the entire world. Logic......Madara you just don't have it.

 

[fahadkurama]

Why??? This's very hard to read!
Tobirama was a "straight to the point" person. A Pessimistic fellow as a matter of fact. The Uchiha had issues. And tobirama wasn't the type to hope or expect them to change. And don't blame him for the Uchiha being suspected in the case of the kyubi attack. Everybody knows that Only the Uchiha can control thhe Kyubi. Especially the Village Elders. In the End. Tobirma acted as a catalyst. With or without him. Uchiha would have had the same fate. IMO

 

[Nishant Sutariya]

Why are people so blind ?
Tobirama isnt hating uchiha because they were his enemies, he's hating them because uchiha's enemity isnt still gone(even after the founding of village,he can still see the spark in their eyes )....so definitely someone has to be cautious !!

if it is about enemies in past than madara never did bonded for peace with senjus...Madara truly wanted it...madara also hated tobirama but forgiven all past for future....there is where i think madara is above tobirama....tobirama was not matured enough for understanding uchihas at that time like Hashirama was....and if it about cautions then uchihas also had thought the same ..you can not say only tobirama wanted ....ITAchi, shisui are also cautious....tobirama was just feared much uchihas rather than trusting them...

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Yes now it's certain tobirama is gonna become the most hated character

 

[Nishant Sutariya]

Why??? This's very hard to read!
Tobirama was a "straight to the point" person. A Pessimistic fellow as a matter of fact. The Uchiha had issues. And tobirama wasn't the type to hope or expect them to change. And don't blame him for the Uchiha being suspected in the case of the kyubi attack. Everybody knows that Only the Uchiha can control thhe Kyubi. Especially the Village Elders. In the End. Tobirma acted as a catalyst. With or without him. Uchiha would have had the same fate. IMO

if uchihas had issues then also senjus had issues...you are viewing on from senju side especially from tobirama..agree tobirama was not that type...but cornering them at one place even knowing that uchihas see love the most important still he mistreat them..even hashirama did not want that...because hashirama knew it well....its not only tobirama who mistreated them...people like danzo and elders also who talk about village in name of killing other clan people in just fear of they will do this or that without knowing true intentions like itachi and shisui had...

 

[Gatsuuga]

Yes now it's certain tobirama is gonna become the most hated character

I don't see why people would hate him after the latest chapter. Tobirama suggested the villagers vote for their first hokage, which is a fair way to elect someone. Madara was butthurt so decided to enslave and control all of humanity. Talk about overreacting, no wonder he didn't get elected.

 

[Nishant Sutariya]

I don't see why people would hate him after the latest chapter. Tobirama suggested the villagers vote for their first hokage, which is a fair way to elect someone. Madara was butthurt so decided to enslave and control all of humanity. Talk about overreacting, no wonder he didn't get elected.

it was not just election by democracy....it was clear that tobirama and other senjus are not trusting madara and never wanted him to succeed for hokage....the thing which cause trouble to madara is that he wanted to protect all but yet all people mistreat him except HASHIRAMA.....cause no one trusted him ...after knowing hatred in tobirama ..he even went up to his clansmen to leave village cause he knew that tobirama will never allow any uchiha to come ahead and never trust his clan...so...

 

[Oriver]

it was not just election by democracy....it was clear that tobirama and other senjus are not trusting madara and never wanted him to succeed for hokage....the thing which cause trouble to madara is that he wanted to protect all but yet all people mistreat him except HASHIRAMA.....cause no one trusted him ...after knowing hatred in tobirama ..he even went up to his clansmen to leave village cause he knew that tobirama will never allow any uchiha to come ahead and never trust his clan...so...

Considering Uchihas killed his little brother
and
Madara specifically tried to manipulate Hashi into killing him [Tobi]
[In Tobi's mind . . . If Hashi chose to kill him . . instead of himself . . . Madara would not have stopped him . . he would have let Tobi die. Hashi's choice forced Madara to save his friend. ]

I don't see why Tobi should have had much love for Madara in specific or Uchihas in general

ORiver
Madara seemed Jealous of Tobi being Hashi's brother to an extent

 

[Nishant Sutariya]

Considering Uchihas killed his little brother
and
Madara specifically tried to manipulate Hashi into killing him [Tobi]
[In Tobi's mind . . . If Hashi chose to kill him . . instead of himself . . . Madara would not have stopped him . . he would have let Tobi die. Hashi's choice forced Madara to save his friend. ]

I don't see why Tobi should have had much love for Madara in specific or Uchihas in general

ORiver
Madara seemed Jealous of Tobi being Hashi's brother to an extent

Same for Madara....tobi killed his brothers....and you are just assuming that madara want to control hashi...he was not like as you said...he truly desired peace...and he had given option to hashi not for killing tobi...but for checking his guts and whether he is trustable or not...the thing you are saying is wrong ..he did join hand to save his people and his promise to his brother...not for revenge...if he truly want to kill he could do it....he wanted that past should be past and all people acknoledge him as hashirama but the attitude and grudge of tobirama and senju....did not let him to come forward that is why he said cooperation is silent fight....there were a deep meaning in that...he chose first meaning which tablet means but he feels its not possible so he had chosen second option....he was not jealous of hashi...but he knew that hashi will chose his brother over him ...so and tobi will not allow him or any uchihas to become hokage...so simple tobi was feared of uchihas and tobi was reason for uchihas mistreatment in village...

 

[BazzBee]

Couldn't kishi have made a wist in a chapter urghhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?

 

[psukkar]

tobirama was not good and not seeing uchihas a part of village ever.....

- Tobirama was full of hatred towards Madara and uchihas.Even after killing Izuna, he can not put all a side where as Madara as a leader who lost his brother on hand of Tobirama still ready for forming village.He did for protecting his clan and was ready for taking charge of Hokage cause hashi thought he will make it as he knew him well that Madara really want to protect his clan so giving him title make the village safe.

-Hashirama knew that Hatred in tobirama is causing trouble for Madara.But he chose his brother over Madara in knowing that tobirama is ill treating Madara and never did trusting Madara like hashirama.

-No doubt Hashirama was a great person who did all and made his dream true.(no one can like him not even Naruto can surpass him the way he did all for village and people.)(only 1 thing i want to say for him is if he had not chosen tobirama over madara cause at that time madara was more likable to be hokage than tobirama..)

-Madara did know the UCHIHA tablet meaning..so he tried first meaning which says if BOTH SENJU AND UCHIHA combines, true happiness will be achieved..but he saw that even after cooperation people like Tobirama are not trusting and doubting him.(silent fight)

-his fears are clear as if 2nd hokage will be tobirama, he will surely mistrust uchiha and ill treat them.

-He might be wrong but tobirama did by indirectly the way he put all uchihas out of village and mistreated them.

-he knew the affects of Sharingan but never understand that it only happened when you hurt them and try to attack them...he can use them well and treat well instead of being harsh towards them.

-Madara saw that first option which tablet suggest is not working and false...he went ahead for 2nd option for creating peace in his way by obtaining rinnegan and infinite tsukoyomi.

-so its all happened because of politics by tobirama where good person turned out bad because he was leader...he wanted to protect clan and people..he wanted peace even after losing brother...he turned bad after knowing that people are not trusting him and acknowledge him because of tobirama and other senjus. His people trusted Hashirama but understand after tobirama became hokage..after tobirama, all blame them for kyubi attack and other clans showed them their real face by doubting them....i accept that they gained power through hatred but that does not mean that they will not become hokage...people like Itachi and shisui were there...who are really more good than tobirama...they are uchihas but they really know the meaning of will of fire and hashirama's ideals...if they can trust senjus than i do not think that senjus have reason for not trusting them as same other than they have grudge towards uchihas....

One should stand for good and should trust each other when you are going to build a village.Egos and grudges should be on side when all are in one place and past should be in past, otherwise things turns out like this recent manga....agree ??...

tobirama knew the uchiha's were unstable due the hatred and their eyes, he was worried they would kill each other in peace times so he split them off from the village and gave them the police force duty to focus their minds on something else. Not to mention madara did rebel remember all just because tobirama said the truth about the power of the uchiha and their eyes.

Tobirama was actually trying to help them out, hasihrama I think in the end knew this as well but didn't want to admit it to madara who is also quite a damaged individual.

Its like they say, the uchiha are a cursed clan, sad really oh well, maybe naruto can change things but it seems hard ,sasuke is still quite fragile. Sasuke in part 1 showed good qualities I wonder if he will return someday.

You know whats a bit childish about Madara, he talks about not able to protect his brothers yet continued to fight the senju despite he knew they were more powerful and Hasihrama also lost brothers you don't see them flipping out.

Character is key in harsh moments and the uchiha seem to have weak characters which doesn't help their own causes to obtain peace.