SilverSlick
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Calm down with that and give him some respect.
Hashirama >>>>> Obito
- Thread starter Hashirama Senjuu
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Calm down with that and give him some respect.
TheSages456
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obito has only shown projectile branches & generic wood release from the arm. it wouldve made no difference.
nobodys talking about kakashi+others. kakashi by himself has no advantage over obito.
the only way that obito couldve survived the paper ocean is with izanagi. having knowledge on it doesnt matter.
obito did indeed land a killing blow on konan. he just used a genjutsu on her before she died.
i was never arguing this in the first place. you're inventing points just to make yourself look better.
all the people that you listed that obito fought arent even close to hashiramas power.3. I've already stated multiple times that obito's kamui is the defensive one. It allows him to become intangible...he's fighting the fastest taijutsu user, + kakashi and KM naruto (who's on minato's level of speed). Its already proven that obito fodderizes KM naruto & bee, and he's been shown to hold his own against him and gai/him and kakashi simultaneously, sure he hasnt warped anybody but thats just because he was fighting four of the strongest shinobi in the series (two of which are jinjuuriki, and two of which can hold their own against bijuu)...Cant deny the facts
what are you even talking about? obito was losing control of the 5 tails when he had all 6 jinchuriki out at once. he has only successfully controlled 5 full biju at once. its stated that hashirama tamed the biju. you are going to need to prove the the biju just randomly split up for no reason whatsoever because they were indeed together before humans started capturing them.
according to kishi, hashirama is indeed above obito.Saying that hashi is levels above obito is just fanboyism at its finest, i wonder what excuses you will come up with next
Draphsin
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1. you dont know at all how the outcome of that fight could've turned out. Obito used mokuton to impale and mutilate people using a variety of techniques, and he sprouted mokuton from the ground too...
Yea you're right, kakashi has no advantage over obito by himself...but with ally's, he has the distinct advantage in the fight. Kakashi has never given obito a hard time without naruto's help, fact.
And konan had prep time....also, how can you even say that knowledge doesnt matter, when knowlde is what forced obito to use izanagi in the first place? (as i said, obito was underestimating konan, this is proven when he says "lYou must be registered for see links"...If he had knowledge on those paper bombs, the fight would be different. The fact that he was curious about her technique was the reason why he got caught in it) And no, right after obito used izanagi he could've killed konan right there. Konan with prep time and knowledge >>>anybody, i dont see hashi escaping something like that U_U
2. So you agree that obito >>>> kakashi, then stop using him in examples....
3. lol he lost control temporarily, and regardless he can control 5 at once with ease, and he can control 6 V2 chakra cloaked jinjuuriki at once (yagura in V2 captured naruto). 1 extra bijuu isnt going to make a difference if he has it during their fight or not.
lol prove that the bijuu were together before hashi came along...What point would there be in having all 9 bijuu cuddled up together? they're creatures, they live in different environments (Isobu is a prime example, because he would reside in the ocean). And kurama was also wandering around by himself when madara arrived, why wasnt he chilling with other bijuu?
4. How about you read what i said....I know that hashi beats obito but that fact that you say he's levels above him when they're clearly gonna have a high diff fight, makes you look foolish because everybody including yourself knows its not true
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TheSages456
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1. you dont know at all how the outcome of that fight could've turned out. Obito used mokuton to impale and mutilate people using a variety of techniques, and he sprouted mokuton from the ground too...
Yea you're right, kakashi has no advantage over obito by himself...but with ally's, he has the distinct advantage in the fight. Kakashi has never given obito a hard time without naruto's help, fact.
And konan had prep time....also, how can you even say that knowledge doesnt matter, when knowlde is what forced obito to use izanagi in the first place? (as i said, obito was underestimating konan, this is proven when he says "lYou must be registered for see links"...If he had knowledge on those paper bombs, the fight would be different. The fact that he was curious about her technique was the reason why he got caught in it) And no, right after obito used izanagi he could've killed konan right there. Konan with prep time and knowledge >>>anybody, i dont see hashi escaping something like that U_U
2. So you agree that obito >>>> kakashi, then stop using him in examples....
3. lol he lost control temporarily, and regardless he can control 5 at once with ease, and he can control 6 V2 chakra cloaked jinjuuriki at once (yagura in V2 captured naruto). 1 extra bijuu isnt going to make a difference if he has it during their fight or not.
lol prove that the bijuu were together before hashi came along...What point would there be in having all 9 bijuu cuddled up together? they're creatures, they live in different environments (Isobu is a prime example, because he would reside in the ocean). And kurama was also wandering around by himself when madara arrived, why wasnt he chilling with other bijuu?
4. How about you read what i said....I know that hashi beats obito but that fact that you say he's levels above him when they're clearly gonna have a high diff fight, makes you look foolish because everybody including yourself knows its not true
obito only made the big mokuton construct when he blacked out from his rage. obito used one mokuton tech to implale people. its a projectile weapon that cant hit minato. the only way it has a chance of hitting minato is if obito using something as big as the juubi as a catalyst & spams it though that. it doesnt matter though. obito got beat by minato in about a minute so this isnt debatable
obito had trouble putting kakashi down. kakashi wasnt put down by any of obitos attempts of a K.O
konans attack forced obito to use izanagi not prep time. its annoying to constantly correct you on everything. obito cant survive the bombs without izanagi. its that simple. knowledge means nothing if you dont have the tools necessary to counter. izanagi is the only way obito can survive. thats all there is to it. shinsuusenju counters every tech we have seen in the narutoverse. konanas sea of paper bombs are a few thousand feet deep at the max. shinsuusenju is over 50,000 feet tall.
except obito had trouble with kakashi & failed to put him down.
he has only controlled 5 full biju at once. if he could use 6 at once then he wouldve done it.
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. now show scans of them splitting up.hashirama vs obito is clearly not a high diff fight. obito isnt portrayed to be anywhere near madaras power so dont group obito with either hashirama or madara.
Draphsin
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Regardless if obito blacked out or not, he is still able to produce mokuton at that level.
Saying that he cant because he "blacked out" is just making up excuses...
And as i said multiple times but you fail to read for some reason, minato had a distinct advantage over obito...thats why he lost, stop using that as an example because its 16 years in the past and saying that his strength hasnt improved since then is ridiculous. So yea you're right, this isnt debatable because obito is on a completely different level now.
Without naruto's chakra refuel kakashi would be fodderized, stop bringing this up. Obito stomps kakashi alone and had no trouble with him during
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with no interruptions. (That is, until naruto showed up)wow please stop, this must be embarrassing to you no? I already stated that obito wouldnt let konan use her paper bombs if he had info on them. And Konan's info on obito is what caused her to create the ultimate counter for kamui...So you're wrong in both aspects (again), info made that battle the way it was.
Obito was kicking kakashi's ass, naruto had to save him. (As ive stated over and over again. I swear i feel like a broken record U_U)
My god, you read nothing i say do you? whether its 5 or 6 bijuu its not gonna make a difference, its still too much for 1 man to handle on his own
LOOOL WOW hahahahaha! So in all of those centuries you're telling me that the bijuu are gonna stick together? you must seriously need mental help, because that is the most ridiculous excuse ive seen on this forum yet! XD
Tell me, would
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be willing to live next to kurama for all of those centuries until hashi came along, despite the fact that he hates his guts? If you say that you're still right then there's nothing more i can say, because i clearly proved you wrong U_Ulol show me 1 ninja besides hashi that had more than 1 bijuu under his control? to say that he's levels below those two is so ignorant, and im gonna break that ignorance by disproving everything you have to say...
AGoodBoy
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This thread fails because Kamui is listed.
This forum is filled with people who think kamui 1 shots everything.
Obito, Kakashi, They're both now 'God-Tier' because kamui gg.
Minato's FTG is fodder.
Tobirama's FTGs is fodder.
But when's it's Kamui, oh no no no, It's so OP no one can beat them!
Obito has never shown any substantial wood techniques.
Obito has never shown any rinnegan techniques, especially on his own. (madara has shown a few)
Madara >>>> Obito (People will come crying Kamui GG in a sec)
Hashirama > Madara
HAshirama >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obito.
Obito isn't warping 10 Mokuton hashirama that he can't differentiate between.
Gedo Mazu isn't beating the giant statue/Wood summons
Obito has no lethal moves, and even if he does,hashirama heals.
Obito doesn't have Edo Tensei to revive the jinchurikii. Even if he gets random fodder and puts the bijuu in them, nothing is to say they'll be able to handle them. Not everyone can handle being a jinchurikii
Hashirama probably beats obito without Sage mode
Obito is overrated because of Kamui and has shown almost no substantial moves apart from wooden spikes.
This is a common fanboy arguement. Obito was the one with the advantage. He literally had Minato In a CheckMate situation.
First his son held hostage and slapped with bombs.
His wife almost being killed by a fox.
His village under attack by a fox while a man is trying to kill him.
yes, sure, Minato had the advantage...
Obito lost fair and square. even if he used mokuton, Minato would FTG away.
Obito saying "If i can warp him i'll win" Was his speculation. Nothing guarantees that he would have even won if he warped minato. It was his opinion.
He still lost control of the bijuu when the jinchurikii transformed. He didn't have much control so that's a failed arguement.
This forum is filled with people who think kamui 1 shots everything.
Obito, Kakashi, They're both now 'God-Tier' because kamui gg.
Minato's FTG is fodder.
Tobirama's FTGs is fodder.
But when's it's Kamui, oh no no no, It's so OP no one can beat them!
Obito has never shown any substantial wood techniques.
Obito has never shown any rinnegan techniques, especially on his own. (madara has shown a few)
Madara >>>> Obito (People will come crying Kamui GG in a sec)
Hashirama > Madara
HAshirama >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obito.
Obito isn't warping 10 Mokuton hashirama that he can't differentiate between.
Gedo Mazu isn't beating the giant statue/Wood summons
Obito has no lethal moves, and even if he does,hashirama heals.
Obito doesn't have Edo Tensei to revive the jinchurikii. Even if he gets random fodder and puts the bijuu in them, nothing is to say they'll be able to handle them. Not everyone can handle being a jinchurikii
Hashirama probably beats obito without Sage mode
Obito is overrated because of Kamui and has shown almost no substantial moves apart from wooden spikes.
This is a common fanboy arguement. Obito was the one with the advantage. He literally had Minato In a CheckMate situation.
First his son held hostage and slapped with bombs.
His wife almost being killed by a fox.
His village under attack by a fox while a man is trying to kill him.
yes, sure, Minato had the advantage...
Obito lost fair and square. even if he used mokuton, Minato would FTG away.
Obito saying "If i can warp him i'll win" Was his speculation. Nothing guarantees that he would have even won if he warped minato. It was his opinion.
Not when that one man is hashirama who has a statue that makes kyuubi look like a rat. Every single one of those bijuu's will be subdued, or turn on obito. Obito has to be gambling with the bijuu because any one of them can turn on him. The 5 tails turned and put him on his guard, that doesn't mean that all of them can't.
He had control of the jinchuriki which helped his control over the bijuu since he didn't have to directly manipulate them with genjutsu.
He still lost control of the bijuu when the jinchurikii transformed. He didn't have much control so that's a failed arguement.
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TheSages456
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the killing spree is linked to obitos black out but that is besides the point. mokuton on that level cant hit minato.
obito used kamui as a main part in his fighting style years ago & he is still using kamui as a main part of his fighting style. minato beat the bread & butter of his arsenal. a katon, mokuton which isnt close to the effectiveness of his kamui & shuriken which is a basic ninja tool doesnt push obito to a completely different level.
i know that obito is stronger than kakashi.
obito wasnt gonna let konan use the paper bombs?
-what was stopping her? by your logic, obito shouldve just stopped her from using any jutsu since the paper bomb sea can indeed be used off the fly just like any other jutsu when its already prepped.
you stating that obito wouldve done this and that doesnt mean anything.
Obito was kicking kakashi's ass, naruto had to save him. (As ive stated over and over again. I swear i feel like a broken record U_U)
he still had trouble killing him or permanently putting him down.
not for hashirama. this would be pretty clear if you read the manga.
better than your excuse of obito having some magical power that wouldve stopped konan from doing her jutsu.
the shukakus hate for the kyuubi seems known to the hachibi which means that the biju have been associated with each other for a while. as i said, you need to post scans of the biju splitting up.
to say that obito is on the level of those 2 who kishi portrays as being on a tier of their own is ignorant.
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Still waiting for these arguments to be disproved with manga facts.
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OfficialRikudouSennin
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but RS>Hashirama>Madara
Obito<Sakura
Obito<Sakura
AGoodBoy
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First Quote - OBito's never shown Shinra tensei, Deva path, animal path, or any of the path's abilities. That point is moot.
Second Quote - "Also, a lot of the instances you were referring to was him fighting 4 people at the same time." Mokuton Clones. IT will basically amount to a 1 v many. Obito still loses. Mokuton easily reaches to the top of that gedo and, Also,
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3rd quote - Obito will have been spotted by the time he teleports behind hashi. Hashi simply moves away/Obito has to find the real hashi among clones. Obito has to first tele away through a barrage of mokuton blitzing and FTW to even teleport behind hashi. This isn't ftg. He can't teleport while being attacked or he'll be hit. He teleports solid. He has to make thing phase through him first.
final quote - Obito can't fly. He's never flown, He's only teleported. If he ports he carries spores with him.
I don't know how any of those quotes were any form of proof that obito is even remotely on hashi's level. Hashi wins without going into SM. There isn't even any manga proof for any of them.
No manga facts to back up your statement. It has been stated that Obito can use those techniques; but refrained from doing so since naruto and co had already come up with counter measures.
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Kamui > Hashirama
Kamui + Human Path >> Hashirama
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Minato's reflexes > everyone's.
He has no knowledge of Kamui.
Untill you provide proof that Mokuton is faster than Kamui, Hashirama is not beating Obito.
Izuna Kakashi Senju
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No it doesn't Obito and Hashirama would rape Itachi.
AGoodBoy
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That first picture Even says maybe they can't... Everything there is speculation. I can't provide manga fact for something that doesn't exist. Where do i find a page showing obito not using shinra tenseii...?
You didn't prove obito could fly.
You didn't prove your gedo masu point.
You skipped a bunch of essentials and picked out what taylored to you with manga pages of him warping sasuke?
P.S You're the one who needs manga fact, not me. I can't pick out manga fact of something that doesn't exist. That's like you trying to tell me to find manga fact of sakura not using rasengan.
...
Alright, So obito warped sasuke there. Not like sasuke was resisting anyway, but my point is that obito won't get a chance to do that.
"Untill you provide proof that Mokuton is faster than Kamui, Hashirama is not beating Obito."
It doesn't have to be faster. Hashi overwhelms people with mokuton. he's not teleporting hashi rama when he's being overwhelmed by wood.
No one obito's fought had knowledge of kamui yet he's only beaten fuu and torune? 2 none kage? That's lovely bro. Stop overrating this guy, he's barely anything special. Without hashi's cells he wouldn't even be top tier. He had to have the guy, who you're arguing against, cells in his body to be anything decent.
You honestly believe that some idiot with kamui trump card will beat the guy that not even madara could beat.
Oh, so what about my point about madara > Obito? That's wrong too, huh? So overrated...
Obito isn't beating any of this
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Next few are madara using hashi's jutsus. There's manga fact in the chapter of tsunade stating it's hashi's moves
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notice also how quickly mei passed out after they fell into the FTW. she had no time to even use a jutsu. Good luck obito in sleeping gas against a forest with 10 hashi clones.
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Enjoy Manga Fact. Hashirama >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obito
They were not my arguments. They were points made by others members which had yet and still have yet to be refuted.
I've already shown you the scan where Kishimoto shows Edo Madara and Obito standing side by side saying "The Strongest Are Here!!" So you can debate with Kishimoto if you have a problem with that.
You clearly don't seem to have a grasp on the difference between ninjutsu and space time ninjutsu. All you have done is post scans of exceptional shonobi using extremely powerful jutsu. The power and scale of a jutsu mean nothing for someone who possesses space time ninjutsu as a kekkei genkai, which is essentially what Kamui is.
You did not prove that Mokuton is faster than Kamui either, which is not surprising. You've also yet to prove that FTW would affect Obito since he has Hashirama's dna implanted inside himself. Taking into account the jutsu is originally Hashirama's, and Obito has Hashirama's dna inside him; how will he be affected? Your reply on how Obito rescued Sauske is not even worth acknowledgement.
Do you want me to go further and mention Izanagi? Otherwise stop this foolishness.
Obito > Edo Madara > Hashirama > Madara
AGoodBoy
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Gratz on changing my post to look smarter. I provided Evidence and your response is mockery. Lmao, you're a good debater. Provide me evidence to support anything.
Lmfao @ bold
All those points by other users are pointless. They can't be proven. How am I refuting them? With manga scans of something that doesn't exist? You need to prove it. Pointless statement.
I don't know what scan you're talking about. Also madara was in the picture when that was shown. No such statement has ever been made with obito alone. That picture doesn't even prove he is on par with hashirama considering hashirama was dead at the time. Why would kishi include him in that statement. By that logic, the S06P or his sons would be always stated when talking about the strongest.
You clearly do not grasp how Kamui works.
Obito Can't fly.
Obito needs to be solid to attack.
Obito can only move through solid objects at sub par speeds. Just about everyone's jumped away from him.
Obito will be spotted moving through mokuton and he won't be given a chance to retaliate through a barrage of wood. Hashirama makes wood from around him. When is obito attacking.
Minato's S/t is more effective than obito's by far. Obito just doesn't need seals and is more mysterious that's why minato stated it as a better jutsu. In a fight, FTG is a better S/t to possess. You can actually blitz around the field.
No one ever spoke about mokuton being faster, I said more overwhelming. It doesn't need to be quick if it's comming from everywhere around hashirama in a dense fashion. Clearly you do not understand the concept of magnitude. He won't attack if he has no chance to solidify.
Why would you mention Izanagi? Are you seriously this desperate? Ok, Izanagi.
That means it's not Rinnegan obito and he loses much easier.
But wait, It's current obito with Rinnegan in one eye and sharingan in the other.
What now? He izanagi's his sharingan? He just dropped himself down to chunnin level. Hashi now wins neg difficulty since his S/T is gone.
Stop with your desperate foolishness.
Everything you're saying is so pointless. You're desperately trying to overstate obito's skill with just kamui.
P.S I can't prove FTW will affect obito. I don't need to because he doesn't need it to win, I was stating because that's what this thread was about.
Obito is far beneath hashirama and Edo Madara... You're seriously foolish to bring an Edo into this. You completely showed your ignorance. It's an entirely different arguement to prove the plethora of ways edo madara just stomps Obito. Obito probably can't even rely on gedo anymore because madara used to be fused with it. He was the one to teach obito anyway.
Stop with your ignorant foolishness. Obito isn't that strong and kamui is riddled with exploits.