【NB Debate Tourney: Zexion vs. PuppyDogGeneral】

[Zexion~]

Sasuke's chidori spear (pure raiton) didn't nullify the Dragon, why do you think Lazer circus (Unpure raiton) would do so? You must be fantasizing if you think that a single spear of raiton is enough to dismantle the C2 Dragon.

The falsity; bold:

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]

But it did Nullify The Dragon !! It Did Not Blow Up when it fell. And laser Circus would Bring down the dragon if it pierced Its wing Which is clearly Capable of a ... Also The Land Mines Have A different Property Then Deidara's Normal Bombs ... Besides you still have not said how the missles are going to hit darui .. Laser Circus will Deffinently hit the bombs to nullify them

 

[Waltz]

But it did Nullify The Dragon !! It Did Not Blow Up when it fell. And laser Circus would Bring down the dragon if it pierced Its wing Which is clearly Capable of a ... Also The Land Mines Have A different Property Then Deidara's Normal Bombs For when Deidara was fighting the three tails he threw Many bombs into The water .. By your logic the impact of the water should of blew the bombs up right away? ... ( im in a hurry so ill post a manga scan when i get back from school)

If Piercing it with the Chidori spear was enough to nullify the entire dragon, Sasuke wouldn't have went as far as to remove it's entire wing. Unless you have a more logical explanation of events? Even those that he hit with chidori senbon; some still randomly detonated [

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]. What alternate properties? All his bombs are crafted from the same material being the explosive clay. The Deidara vs The Three-Tails Arc is the second filler arc from Part II of the series and is as un-canon as you can get. However in that case though water has significant mass and requires considerable force to be quickly displaced. Deidara's bombs are more sturdy than you think, being able to stop a metal kunai from going right through shows high impact resistance in the explosive clay itself [

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] making them similar to stones. At the height deidara released the clay bombs the water would have done no harm. Its clear your now grasping at straws as your rebuttals have reduced in both quantity and quality.

Besides you still have not said how the missles are going to hit darui .. Laser Circus will Deffinently hit the bombs to nullify them

Maybe you haven't been following along, For the 5th time Darui is stationary while using Lazer circus and can only hit one target at a time. He is opened for attacks and reflexes nullified while using the technique which is why he was hit by Kinkaku's Arm [

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] If that were deidara's two homing birds, one might have been destroyed but the other will no doubt make full impact.

 

[Zexion~]

If Piercing it with the Chidori spear was enough to nullify the entire dragon, Sasuke wouldn't have went as far as to remove it's entire wing. Unless you have a more logical explanation of events? Even those that he hit with chidori senbon; some still randomly detonated [

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]. What alternate properties? All his bombs are crafted from the same material being the explosive clay. The Deidara vs The Three-Tails Arc is the second filler arc from Part II of the series and is as un-canon as you can get. However in that case though water has significant mass and requires considerable force to be quickly displaced. Deidara's bombs are more sturdy than you think, being able to stop a metal kunai from going right through shows high impact resistance in the explosive clay itself [

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] making them similar to stones. At the height deidara released the clay bombs the water would have done no harm. Its clear your now grasping at straws as your rebuttals have reduced in both quantity and quality.



Maybe you haven't been following along, For the 5th time Darui is stationary while using Lazer circus and can only hit one target at a time. He is opened for attacks and reflexes nullified while using the technique which is why he was hit by Kinkaku's Arm [

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] If that were deidara's two homing birds, one might have been destroyed but the other will no doubt make full impact.

One target At A Time Have you seen the technique .. Also That was going against two different opponents? Being Stationary While Going Against One Opponent isnt a bad thing.. Laser Circus would indeed Hit Both Targets Easily i dont know why you say that laser circus can hit one Target in the picture i posted it clearly Hits More then one ...

Sasuke Was Forced To Destroy the wing Because The Dragon itself Was Nullified .. Not the missiles i was Just Proveing That the dragon would not blow up upon Impact .. And The Laser Circus Would Cut Of the Wing As Well If Not reach deidara and make him lose his concentration of the technique

also enough with the grasping at straws .. youve said it twice You yourself Have Not Stated A solid reason Darui would Lose .. You said a homing Bird Would Finish Him there is no way c1 is finishing darui .. it would not even make it past water Encampment Wall.. So And C2 ( guided Missiles) Is countered By laser Circus like i haveve said repeatedly

 

[Waltz]

One target At A Time Have you seen the technique .. Also That was going against two different opponents? Being Stationary While Going Against One Opponent isnt a bad thing.. Laser Circus would indeed Hit Both Targets Easily i dont know why you say that laser circus can hit one Target in the picture i posted it clearly Hits More then one ...

Sasuke Was Forced To Destroy the wing Because The Dragon itself Was Nullified .. Not the missiles i was Just Proveing That the dragon would not blow up upon Impact .. And The Laser Circus Would Cut Of the Wing As Well If Not reach deidara and make him lose his concentration of the technique

also enough with the grasping at straws .. youve said it twice You yourself Have Not Stated A solid reason Darui would Lose .. You said a homing Bird Would Finish Him there is no way c1 is finishing darui .. it would not even make it past water Encampment Wall.. So And C2 ( guided Missiles) Is countered By laser Circus like i haveve said repeatedly

More than one? :

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How does the dragon being nullified force sasuke to remove it's wing? that doesn't make sense unless your saying he was wasting effort which is clearly not the case, as if so he'd have just hit it with the spear and let it drop.

You keep reiterating the same thing, why? The dragon was dropping from over 50 meters in the air you must be crazy no to think the impact from the ground would explode it when the impact from a single kunai is able to do so. Even if Darui is able to remove it's wing he has no way to escape the range of the blast created by the falling C2 Dragon. I have already provided very possible countered for the water encampment wall [

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] and Laser circus [

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].

If your saying that the raiton would stop the bird itself from exploding, then you would be correct on that note as it is it's weakness. Though, there is no way for darui to get that high into the air.

This isn't really going anywhere. If we can't progress beyond these points then we'll require the judges to make the final decision based on what has been done so far.

 

[Obito3631]

Darui rapes, he has the elemental advantage.

 

[Zexion~]

More than one? :

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How does the dragon being nullified force sasuke to remove it's wing? that doesn't make sense unless your saying he was wasting effort which is clearly not the case, as if so he'd have just hit it with the spear and let it drop.

You keep reiterating the same thing, why? The dragon was dropping from over 50 meters in the air you must be crazy no to think the impact from the ground would explode it when the impact from a single kunai is able to do so. Even if Darui is able to remove it's wing he has no way to escape the range of the blast created by the falling C2 Dragon. I have already provided very possible countered for the water encampment wall [

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] and Laser circus [

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]. This isn't going anywhere. If we can't progress beyond these points then we'll require the judges to make the final decision based on what has been done so far.

If i may Say one more Thing ( ill delete if you dont want me too)

The laser Circus you provided A scan too was only aimed at one person.. It can be aimed to hit multiple ones as well

And last you did provide a counter To water Encampment wall i was just saying that it could still be used to block c2

 

[Waltz]

If i may Say one more Thing ( ill delete if you dont want me too)

The laser Circus you provided A scan too was only aimed at one person.. It can be aimed to hit multiple ones as well

And last you did provide a counter To water Encampment wall i was just saying that it could still be used to block c2

It may be possible but being that we're going off of actual manga feats, then it doesn't seem to have the ability to do so. Deidara control's C2 and wouldn't let such a thing deter him from making solid attacks, which is where intelligence becomes a factor.

 

[Zexion~]

It may be possible but being that we're going off of actual manga feats, then it doesn't seem to have the ability to do so. Deidara control's C2 and wouldn't let such a thing deter him from making solid attacks, which is where intelligence becomes a factor.

Alright !.... and now we wait

 

[Solo]

Done already, guys?

I've been keeping up with the debate. I like!

 

[Tragic Nous]

Seems like you have both finished: [will edit this post, explaining my choice at a later time].

 

[Zexion~]

Done already, guys?

I've been keeping up with the debate. I like!

Thanks man lol!

 

[Omnipotent]

I'm going to give this one to PuppyDogGeneral, not necessarily because he/she presented quite a sound argument, but because zexion33 failed to successfully counter PuppyDogGeneral's points. In addition, zexion33 reiterated points that were already countered on more than one occasion, which led to unnecessary repetitiveness which lowered the quality of the debate overall (I cannot lie, I became uninterested as I went further along in reading this debate). Furthermore, although it is allowed to use assumptions in this match-up as these characters have never battled before, zexion33 has made assumptions that are just about impossible to prove as of yet, and are classified as speculation. Finally, when faced with an argument that he/she could not counter, zexion33 edited his/her initial argument (is that even allowed?) by allowing Darui to have the Tools of the Sage of the Six Paths in his arsenal, when they are no longer in Darui's possession. This shouldn't be allowed, it's like handing over Kurama to EMS Madara in EMS Madara vs Obito although Kurama was only under EMS Madara's possession in one instance (although I can't say it isn't allowed, because the only restrictions were C0 and C4).

I will expand on this later, busy right now.

 

[Zexion~]

I'm going to give this one to PuppyDogGeneral, not necessarily because he/she presented quite a sound argument, but because zexion33 failed to successfully counter PuppyDogGeneral's points. In addition, zexion33 reiterated points that were already countered on more than one occasion, which led to unnecessary repetitiveness which lowered the quality of the debate overall (I cannot lie, I became uninterested as I went further along in reading this debate). Furthermore, although it is allowed to use assumptions in this match-up as these characters have never battled before, zexion33 has made assumptions that are just about impossible to prove as of yet, and are classified as speculation. Finally, when faced with an argument that he/she could not counter, zexion33 edited his/her initial argument (is that even allowed?) by allowing Darui to have the Tools of the Sage of the Six Paths in his arsenal, when they are no longer in Darui's possession. This shouldn't be allowed, it's like handing over Kurama to EMS Madara in EMS Madara vs Obito although Kurama was only under EMS Madara's possession in one instance (although I can't say it isn't allowed, because the only restrictions were C0 and C4).

I will expand on this later, busy right now.

Well darui doesnt have much in his arsenal But thanks man ill be sure not to make the same mistakes again!!

 

[Solo]

I gotta say both debaters did great.


Overall:

You guys were comparing too much Sasuke. The debate is between Darui and Deidara. No one took advantage of the location? Why? Especially, you Zexion, it could have helped you in certain situations. You both also argued on too many "What-ifs".

Zexion:

Zexion, Darui has the elemental advantage, but with the lack of feats it takes a really really great debater to argue for him. But PuppyDogGeneral backed you into a corner. Which had you repeating the same things. I like how you showed a kunai could set off Deidara's bombs. Which was probably your highest peek in the debate, but you didn't keep up the momentum. Sadly, you fail to counter some of PuppyDogGeneral points.

You kind of agree when PuppyDogGeneral said something about Darui speaking nonsense and you said Darui is hot headed. Darui is not hot headed nor does he talk nonsense. Why? Because he showed the Gold and Silver Bros respect. He's actually a cautious man. During the 5 Kage summit. He did the Lightning style to confirm if Sasuke had Lightning base chakra. He also had Cee check to see if Sasuke had more people with him.

He said Black Panther can't reach the height Sasuke Chidori did. Well.. Forest of Dead Trees. Those Dead Trees are pretty freaking tall!! Probably taller than the average tree, tbh. I'm also sure Darui can run up trees. Height wasn't an issue here. It's what you failed to mention.

You need to explain you points more. You wasn't specific enough. You went straight to the point without explaining much. For debating, that's not a good idea.

I didn't like how edited your post after your opponent all ready quoted you.

PuppyDogGeneral:

Very nice opening. You really started off strong by counter all of Darui's tech. You underestimate a lot of Darui's move, but the opponent failed follow up on. Too much Sasuke comparing. You debated very defensive, and gave more countering than finishing moves. Countering Darui's moves is one thing, but finishes him off is another. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad thing.

Also, I wondering if you were going to mention Deidara bombs work underwater. Therefore, Launching something with force, would increase the possibility of him still exploding the bombs or bombs flying through the water before he was able to perform any Lightning jutsu.

Didn't like how you compared a Edo Tensei corpse with actual damage. Damage and Edo Tensei contradict each other throughout the manga. Sometimes they show signs of being hurt, and sometimes they don't.

Still.. you compared to much Sasuke. I do understand why.


I'd have to give this debate to PuppyDogGeneral. Better explanations and points. Don't be discourage, Zexion. You still did great.

 

[GwemBaba]

In my opinion the winner of this debate is undoubtedly PuppyDogGeneral; both in terms of convincing me who'd win such a fight, but also in terms of providing a solid debate.

P.D.G has maintained his argument at a consistent quality, whilst addressing and providing sufficient counter arguments to most of zexion333's points throughout.

zexion333 started off reasonably well, but as the debate dragged on, not just the quantity but also the quality of his rebuttals were affected; and by the end had resorted to baseless assumptions and using points that had previously been countered by P.D.G, and
not to mention editing his initial post.

Though, to be fair you stated you were busy with school and I think this ultimately affected you overall; simply putting down what came to you as soon as it did without looking it over made you look like you didn't even know what you were arguing about.
In the future I'd suggest waiting untill you have free time to properly think and look over your argument.

Also, you both degraded to arguing Sasuke vs Deidera, rather than Darui vs Deidera.

P.D.G: I have my own reservations about some of your points, namely Darui's attitude to battle, and your underrating of some of Darui's techs, but in terms of actual debating, you successfully backed zexion333 into a corner to where he didn't have a leg to stand on, and that is why I think you won this debate.

 

[Draegod]

is this debate over? can i point out one thing? If not, sorry for posting

 

[Waltz]

Thanks.

@Judges: Your right with the corpse thing, but it's the only time darui has used that jutsu thus far. There were no other examples, but you have a point.

Overall it was a fun debate and thanks for the hints on finishing moves. I did find myself doing more countering and defending than actually formulating various finishing combo's based on feats and arsenal. Not to mention, more conversation on sasuke rather than Darui (off topic).


That thing about Darui's attitude was for the lulz

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[Tragic Nous]

Vote​

Context:

Period One: PuppyDogGeneral assuredly knew what he’s opponent was and is capable of; detailing Darui’s gifts and faults, including reasons as to how these things would ultimately lead to his defeat [though some not as much]. However, the major issue I have is thus: Manga Knowledge signifies that neither combatant knows of the other’s abilities; therefore reasons should be made suggesting how either arguer could potentially find these abilities. None were made; thus I cannot accept the initial claim that the following instances are drew from, but for advancement of the overall picture—my reasoning is as followed:


Zexion: Your reasoning for the most was faded. Firstly, you opening claim about Darui seems to be the high point; everything after becomes a rather un-stellar deduction or rationale. You essentially say that because Deidara has not been shown to practice Kibaku Jirai without Obito, thus he cannot use it. While true, Deidara can use a Kage Bushin and send it underground using Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu to layer the ground with landmines; essentially replicating Obito’s role and possibly heightening its effect, since we know virtually all information that a Kage Bushin discovers is retained by its user. This basically means that Deidara can keep the location of the mines secret, leaving Darui ignorant of their existence. Furthermore, Darui using Ranton: Reizā Sākasu to diffuse the Doton mines is nigh impossible, as Darui has no perceivably of determining where the mines are located, as Sasuke only know about the mines from Obtio’s declaration [and possibly the Sharingan].

Secondly, you misunderstood Deidara’s assessment. Deidara correctly deduced Sasuke’s range, and stayed out if; deploying C2: Kibaku Nendo, not the typical C1’s that were easily stopped by Kakashi’s shuriken. If Darui were to attempt stopping such missiles with a mere kunai, it is highly likely, that since they are guided by Deidara two instances would ensue:

• Deidara purposely allows the missiles to make contact kunai—which results in the kunai being ineffective or Deidara explodes it then and there.
  
  
• Deidara simply alters the missiles trajectory; forcing Darui to either an attack or defense setting—which furthers give Deidara position over him.

In addition, Deidara’s C2 are more than enough to take out Darui [C1 alone has feats of killing], as it arguably that Sasuke only survived such blasts thanks to the Curse Seal. And thirdly, Darui, is no near as fast as Hebi Sasuke, so Darui dodging such blasts on pure agility alone is moot —additionally, Darui seemingly does not possess the tools of Rikudō Sennin—only using them for a time, to not be seen in his possession again.

Thirdly, you claim detailing Darui’s Ration are doubtful, for reasons that PuppyDogGeneral has always stated, so it would be simply ignorable to repost it.


PuppyDogGeneral: My major gripe for you is relatively simple: you did not include explanations as to how Deidara discovered Darui’s abilities. The importance of this is thus: I am, supposed to dimly believe that Deidara ‘knows’ of Darui’s capacities without any showing of reason? From you, I expected this much to be conveyed no matter how faint, for since you did not, the entire debate is lonely centered on your initial claim—which literally decides the turns of arguments. What’s worse, Zexion, at no point sought to bring to this up, as this would have had potentially deduced the amount of repetitions found in this discussion. Aside from this PDG, your points and rebuttals were ultimately good enough to warrant a vote from me.

 

[Tragic Nous]

PuppyDogGeneral advances to the second round with a voting score of 4-0.

 

[Zexion~]

Damn i did forget the location :/ well good luck PuppyDog it was Fun !!