Madara's Trust

AGoodBoy

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Tl;Dr; Hashirama broke his promise to protect Izuna from death.

Now, The general Belief is that madara Asked Hashirama to kill tobirama/himself because madara is a sore loser.
I believe that madara also did this for a deeper reason.

We know that madara loved his brother and that Izuna left his eyes to his brother. We have several conflicting stories of Izuna's death, but the one certain thing is that Madara got the EMS.

Madara told hashirama before that he was nothing special and that he could not even protect his brothers, but he'd protect Izuna if it's the last thing he did - Even if it meant he had to fight Hashirama.

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Notice that bottom Left panel on the last Image? I will come back to this.

Madara never wanted Izuna to die, and both he and Hashirama wanted peace. Even Tobirama wanted peace, but not Izuna. No, Izuna would not let any senju create a pact with the uchiha, so, therefore, madara had to stand by his brother's side. He couldn't Accept a treaty knowing full well that it would mean that Izuna would never accept it and would continue fighting.

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What I believe, Is that somewhere along the lines, hashirama offered madara a truce with the conditions, or hashirama gave madara his word, that he would never allow any harm to come to izuna. It could be possible that hashirama said this after Madara/Izuna's Dad was killed somehow so that they would not have to go through any more pain. It makes sense that hashirama would want to help Madara keep his last brother and that a gentle person like hashirama would make a statement like this.

This means that, when Tobirama killed izuna, hashirama broke his promise. How? Madara and Hashirama both knew that hashirama could stop tobirama from dealing that final blow because Hashirama was stronger than tobirama.

At the end of the day, Madara asked Hashirama to kill himself/tobirama because Hashirama went back on his word. Hashirama broke his promise. And to madara, that meant that hashirama could no longer be trusted. So now, in all his anger, in all his hate, in all his sadness and frustration, Madara just wants the head of his brother's killer. Infact, it could have been possible that EMS madara was aiming to kill tobirama (which would explain why tobirama was so close to the battlefield) but Hashirama would not allow madara to pass. Hence, Solidifying Hashirama's broken promise by;
1) Allowing Madara to lose his final loved one
2) Not allowing Madara to seek his true justice

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Notice how, after such a grueling battle with Susano'o and mokuton, Tobirama and a few other fodder are already there. The fodder may have been protection for tobirama.


In The end, is it right for madara to put so much blame on hashirama and ask of something like this? I do not think so
Is Madara behaving like a sore Loser? I would believe so also. His brother lost fair and square to a better opponent
Should Madara have even been spared? That's up for Debate.

One thing we know is that madara did state that he could NEVER forgive anyone who did harm to his brother. This latest ultimatum proves it.


 
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hashirama telling madara that he would protect izuna could be possible but the fact is that never happened bcos it was never stated in the manga.
 

The Legendary Noob

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AND... Instead of listening to Izuna, the Uchiha Clan become outcasts.
I believe the Uchiha could've grown stronger than the Senju.
 

SilverDuck

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Yeah, the manga is pretty clear on what happened. I think you're looking for something that isn't there. I have no reason to believe that it's anything but what is shown.
 

SilverDuck

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It really seems that the point that is trying to be made with this flashback is that Madara is indeed human. It is showing exactly where he fell from grace. We see him as a young kid that shares Hashirama's deep desire for peace. They had very similar upbringings, and Madara did not start off as a monster. A monster was born due to poor circumstance. It's simply a tale of how 2 men of equal ability and upbringing can go down such wildly different paths. Madara's goal is the same as Hashirama's, he just went about it in a very bad way. Originally, we were made to believe that Madara was just a monster who wanted to run shit. A monster who wanted power just to have that power. That clearly is not the case.

Honestly, that is all it is.
 

AGoodBoy

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Yeah, the manga is pretty clear on what happened. I think you're looking for something that isn't there. I have no reason to believe that it's anything but what is shown.

what are you talking about? The manga isn't even clear at all on this. The time skipped like 10 years. If it's so clear, how'd the dads die? When did they die? Who killed them? what exactly happened on Izuna's death bed? Hmm... Cause we have 3-4 stories - madara got blind, got izuna's eyes and izuna fought blind. Izuna gave madara his eyes on his death bed. Madara took izuna's eyes. None of these stories were even said by Madara. Only by third parties. Obito's story(which he got from madara) conflicts with hashi's story. Please tell me how any of this history is clear and that somewhere along the huge timeskip that something couldn't happen.I'm all ears.

hashirama telling madara that he would protect izuna could be possible but the fact is that never happened bcos it was never stated in the manga.
Last manga was sped up though and kishi could possibly be skipping on some very important details to show them later. kishi might just be trying to keep us guessing seeing as the whole izuna event isn't too clear...
 

AGoodBoy

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It really seems that the point that is trying to be made with this flashback is that Madara is indeed human. It is showing exactly where he fell from grace. We see him as a young kid that shares Hashirama's deep desire for peace. They had very similar upbringings, and Madara did not start off as a monster. A monster was born due to poor circumstance. It's simply a tale of how 2 men of equal ability and upbringing can go down such wildly different paths. Madara's goal is the same as Hashirama's, he just went about it in a very bad way. Originally, we were made to believe that Madara was just a monster who wanted to run shit. A monster who wanted power just to have that power. That clearly is not the case.

Honestly, that is all it is.

yes we understand that bit, but that doesn't explain why madara he can't trust hashirama. Hashi even spared his life and warned him of an ambush
 

Sherlock.

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I think its the other way.... Madara killed Izuna.... I made a theory on this.... Pls have a look.... :D :D

 

AGoodBoy

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I think its the other way.... Madara killed Izuna.... I made a theory on this.... Pls have a look.... :D :D


oh, yes I saw this before. But I thought to add some more theories to the table of why madara is being a girl :p
 

Melanee

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The Uchiha sure have this amazing ability to make things harder than necessary. How many times has Naruto tried to use similar logic with Sasuke?

Anyways, in regards to the OP, yes, it does make sense, but I keep feeling Izuna survived and Madara killed him to activate his EMS.

I also just realized Sasuke looks a lot like Izuna, even more so than Madara. Must be the hair. lol
 

neilson

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i dont really see it, cause if he really did trust hashi he would give him an ultimatum first!
 

AGoodBoy

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The Uchiha sure have this amazing ability to make things harder than necessary. How many times has Naruto tried to use similar logic with Sasuke?

Anyways, in regards to the OP, yes, it does make sense, but I keep feeling Izuna survived and Madara killed him to activate his EMS.

I also just realized Sasuke looks a lot like Izuna, even more so than Madara. Must be the hair. lol
I just don't see that being all that possible. I agree with it, but we've been made to believe that madara loved his brother immensely. Even going as far as saying more than itachi loved sasuke and we know itachi literally died for sasuke, both vs sasuke and vs kabuto. :p
 

Melanee

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I just don't see that being all that possible. I agree with it, but we've been made to believe that madara loved his brother immensely. Even going as far as saying more than itachi loved sasuke and we know itachi literally died for sasuke, both vs sasuke and vs kabuto. :p

I know, that part makes it confusing, but we are being told this through Hashirama's point of view. Something just didn't sit right with me when Madara returned and showed him his EMS, saying his brother died from that wound.
 

neilson

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well i'm not sure about the madara's trust but i dont trust him
 

~Zonta~

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Senju and the Uchiha's were at war and not playing games so it was obvious they would be having fierce encounters between them for sure. And if Madara was so protective of his brother he would have not made him second in command of Uchiha clan.

On the other hand it Izuna who was mainly opposing the alliance of the Senju's. He was killed or died of a wound in a battle and it is normal for a shinobi to die but Madara himself was not in a position to argue with Hashirama since he had lost.

And if Madara so loved his brother he would have revived him with his Rinnegan instead he went for Moons eye plan so this seems too far fetched and fishy the only guess I can make here is Madara was the one who killed Izuna.
 
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AGoodBoy

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Senju and the Uchiha's were at war and not playing games so it was obvious they would be having fierce encounters between them for sure. And if Madara was so protective of his brother he would have not made him second in command of Uchiha clan.

On the other hand it Izuna who was mainly opposing the alliance of the Senju's. He was killed or died of a wound in a battle and it is normal for a shinobi to die but Madara himself was not in a position to argue with Hashirama since he had lost.

And if Madara so loved his brother he would have revived him with his Rinnegan instead he went for Moons eye plan so this seems too far fetched and fishy the only guess I can make here is Madara was the one who killed Izuna.
That makes sense. We really need madara's story... It might turn out that he really just wanted power..
 
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