[Theory] What really happened to Yagura

[Moe22]

Hello my fellow NB members! Since that chapter cover was released of all the Jinchūriki, I've been especially curious about the one holding up the three, Yagura, 4th Mizukage. His appearance and history intrigued me, so I've formulated a theory on what I think happened to him regarding his being controlled. I know it's far from perfect, So here goes nothing

Firstly, we know for sure he was being controlled:

Spoiler

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Now, the jinchūriki can counteract genjutsu without requiring another person to be present, as the tailed beasts can disturb their jinchūriki's chakra flow to break the genjutsu. So no Sharingan techs will work right away.
So to make sure they CAN control Yagura, Isobu, the three tails, needed to be extracted from Yagura at once, eventually killing Yagura, and leaving Isobu roaming in the wild. Capturing the beast wasn't a necessary at the moment, for they could capture it any time they want, which they eventually succeeded in:

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Now, the problem was bringing Yagura back. I assume Rinne Tensei was used. Perhaps this was Nagato's first mission acting under Madara. Now Yagura is susceptible to being controlled perhaps by Kotomatsukami (Shisui and Danzo's Magenkyo sharingan) perhaps by either Madara or Obito, explaining why he initially only had one hole for his eye:

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So, why control Yagura, you ask? My guess is to either destroy diplomatic relations with other countries (As A stated) or to get revenge on the Hidden Mist for hunting down Rin (which is another theory entirely). Eventually yes, Yagura had a rather tyrannical reign over Kirikagure, giving it it's renowed nickname, "Village of the Bloody Mist". By raising demons like this:

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Essentially Kirikagure were killing their own shinobi and children.
Another more simple reason is the use Kiri as a base and hearth for Akatsuki. Kiri has "no diplomatic relations" so no one would be suspicious of kiri for harboring the rogue shinobi. And after Madara dies, Obito has no more need for Yagura as a vessel to control Kiri. The killing is discontinued after Zabuza killed his entire class. Akatsuki is now formed and has a plethora of powerful shinobi at their disposal. So he ends the jutsu on Yagura, and implants a spare sharingan in his left eye.

In conclusion: I believe Yagura was controlled for Obito's personal motives, mainly to destroy Kiri from the inside out, and hide the forming Akatsuki. I hope you enjoyed it and please leave feedback

 

[Insidious Smile]

Yagura was trolled by Obito / Kishmoto's Logic.

 

[-Raviel-]

*Thank ya Jesus*....I was wondering what happened to Yagura...my life is now complete

 

[UchihaInza]

cool thread dude xd i liked yagura alot to he was a beast ..he was very strong and powerfull..they called mist the bloody mist while he was mizukage..ha..but i guess he was a sacrifice for the infinite tsukiyomi Uchiha Inza

 

[tyresellers]

Hmmm I don't know if that part about the forming of the akatsuki is the basis for having that. They could have formed it in any nation. If he could so easily snatch the mizukage and kill him why not just capture him. The longer they wait to release the 3 tail the longer they would have to wait to see it respawn. Then it would be the issue of another country capturing it before they could. I'm curious about the how they were able to control him. I bet Kishi delves more into that.

 

[Moe22]

Hmmm I don't know if that part about the forming of the akatsuki is the basis for having that. They could have formed it in any nation. If he could so easily snatch the mizukage and kill him why not just capture him. The longer they wait to release the 3 tail the longer they would have to wait to see it respawn. Then it would be the issue of another country capturing it before they could. I'm curious about the how they were able to control him. I bet Kishi delves more into that.

It was stated that's where Akatsuki was "created". They used Yagura as a cover up, because no, they probably couldn't just start a base anywhere in the world. I believe their was a connection between Yagura's control and the mist shinobi that were hunting down Rin. As I said, genjutsu, which is probably how Yagura was controlled, does not work on Jinchuurki. That is why the 3 tails had to be extracted. But after all, it's just a theory.

 

[Twin Steps]

I <3 this thread, even though I don't like yugara much.

 

[Moe22]

I <3 this thread, even though I don't like yugara much.

Wow thanks!

 

[HashiramaDescendant]

Nice insight on Yagura, bro and good thread overall. ^_^

 

[Chibiusa]

Very nice thread. I was confused for a long time about the whole Yagura situation.

I never thought of the possibility of him purposely trying to ruin Kiri because of the Rin situation. I agree with the Akatsuki thing tho. That was probably his main motive. No other nation would interfere with Kiri since they're one of the big villages. It's the perfect cover

 

[Moe22]

Very nice thread. I was confused for a long time about the whole Yagura situation.

I never thought of the possibility of him purposely trying to ruin Kiri because of the Rin situation. I agree with the Akatsuki thing tho. That was probably his main motive. No other nation would interfere with Kiri since they're one of the big villages. It's the perfect cover

Haha thanks for commenting, although I put you up to it Anyway, I feel that Obito's supposed hatred towards Kiri would motivate him to get revenge on them. Maybe he wanted to pull a Nagato and let Kirikagure feel the pain he did. Also, he has the Uchiha Hatred within him :snick:

 

[thegame]

Uhm, a rather new assumption, although I don't think all your arguments are valid. Especially about KA:

1. KA doesn't work on a jinchuriki? Well this is, if it's a perfect jinchuriki, meaning the bijuu accepted its master. Nothing suggests that Yagura and the 3 tailed was that close.
2. Assuming they were that close, you can't just say genjutsu wouldn't work. KA is too complex. It is true that a bijuu can take his host out of the genjutsu, but only when it realizes that his host is caught in one. How does it realize something like that, when it's the subconsciousness of the host that is affected?
3. Danzo's KA could not possibly control Yagura that perfectly. Danzo's KA compared to Itachi's are waaaaay different. Danzo's places an idea in the targets mind. This is as good as untraceable, however, you could not use this to control someone for a longer period.

So IMO, it could not have been KA. Shisui was dead at the time, when Kisame was recruited, Itachi couldn't use his eye, and Danzo had just acquired Shisui's eye within less than a year from Kisame's meeting with "Madara" and Yagura. Assuming Yagura was under control for a longer period, it is simply impossible. This can easily be proven, since Kisame joined Akatsuki after Itachi, and Ibiki was shown in one of Kisame's flashbacks (proving Kisame's age at the time). Also Shisui could not have used the eye years before this, since Ao saw it in action.

Rinne tensei , is a long shot. It was said (as I remember) that they had to wait 3 years after Yagura's death for the 3-tail to respawn, i.e. they had no reason to capture Naruto before the time skip. So this clearly proves the 3 tails were never extracted from Yagura. Yagura was killed somehow, without it being extracted.

Why control him? Well your guesses are as good as mine. You mention something important, to keep Kiri out of political affairs. They never were involved with any politics. They never took part in any war (raikage said that at the meeting). We have no knowledge of the 3rd Mizukage? Most people assume it was simply Madara, because where else could he have been for all the years, where he was not bound to the three? Perhaps by controlling someone else. The obvious guess would simply be, that he left that job to Obito.

 

[Moe22]

Uhm, a rather new assumption, although I don't think all your arguments are valid. Especially about KA:

1. KA doesn't work on a jinchuriki? Well this is, if it's a perfect jinchuriki, meaning the bijuu accepted its master. Nothing suggests that Yagura and the 3 tailed was that close.
2. Assuming they were that close, you can't just say genjutsu wouldn't work. KA is too complex. It is true that a bijuu can take his host out of the genjutsu, but only when it realizes that his host is caught in one. How does it realize something like that, when it's the subconsciousness of the host that is affected?
3. Danzo's KA could not possibly control Yagura that perfectly. Danzo's KA compared to Itachi's are waaaaay different. Danzo's places an idea in the targets mind. This is as good as untraceable, however, you could not use this to control someone for a longer period.

So IMO, it could not have been KA. Shisui was dead at the time, when Kisame was recruited, Itachi couldn't use his eye, and Danzo had just acquired Shisui's eye within less than a year from Kisame's meeting with "Madara" and Yagura. Assuming Yagura was under control for a longer period, it is simply impossible. This can easily be proven, since Kisame joined Akatsuki after Itachi, and Ibiki was shown in one of Kisame's flashbacks (proving Kisame's age at the time). Also Shisui could not have used the eye years before this, since Ao saw it in action.

Rinne tensei , is a long shot. It was said (as I remember) that they had to wait 3 years after Yagura's death for the 3-tail to respawn, i.e. they had no reason to capture Naruto before the time skip. So this clearly proves the 3 tails were never extracted from Yagura. Yagura was killed somehow, without it being extracted.

Why control him? Well your guesses are as good as mine. You mention something important, to keep Kiri out of political affairs. They never were involved with any politics. They never took part in any war (raikage said that at the meeting). We have no knowledge of the 3rd Mizukage? Most people assume it was simply Madara, because where else could he have been for all the years, where he was not bound to the three? Perhaps by controlling someone else. The obvious guess would simply be, that he left that job to Obito.

First of all, thanks for reading bro. Second 4th Mizukage was said to have control over his tailed beast:

Spoiler

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Also, it might not necessarily be Shisui's MS, but I'm really sure he was being controlled by a sharingan tech, maybe an unnamed one IDK.
And I believe Rinne Tensei was used to revive him, albeit on a much smaller scale than we have been shown.
Altogether it is a flawed theory, but It makes sense to me

 

[thegame]

First of all, thanks for reading bro. Second 4th Mizukage was said to have control over his tailed beast:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Also, it might not necessarily be Shisui's MS, but I'm really sure he was being controlled by a sharingan tech, maybe an unnamed one IDK.
And I believe Rinne Tensei was used to revive him, albeit on a much smaller scale than we have been shown.
Altogether it is a flawed theory, but It makes sense to me

I know Danzo said that, but what he says is simply, that he had control over the beast on about same level as Madara and Hashirama, so nothing suggests that he was friend with his beast, which was my point all along.

Also, controlling its powers is one thing, but if you are being controlled from the shadows by a sharingan, it would make it rather easy. Perhaps Obito was simply testing himself, so he could become better at controlling a tailed beast. I mean after all, he failed with Kurama.

To me rinne tensei is a "death" technique, which is why I doubt it was done that way. Besides Amagekure is rather far from Kiri, and the fastest routes would be risky even for Pain, since they go through the big countries. So far using rinne tensei has only been associated with losing your own life, which is, why it's unlikely IMO.

 

[Moe22]

I know Danzo said that, but what he says is simply, that he had control over the beast on about same level as Madara and Hashirama, so nothing suggests that he was friend with his beast, which was my point all along.

Also, controlling its powers is one thing, but if you are being controlled from the shadows by a sharingan, it would make it rather easy. Perhaps Obito was simply testing himself, so he could become better at controlling a tailed beast. I mean after all, he failed with Kurama.

To me rinne tensei is a "death" technique, which is why I doubt it was done that way. Besides Amagekure is rather far from Kiri, and the fastest routes would be risky even for Pain, since they go through the big countries. So far using rinne tensei has only been associated with losing your own life, which is, why it's unlikely IMO.

Did you forget the last person? I made it my sig just in case you did . Bee. A jinchuriki just like Yagura. Bee befriended Gyuuki as we already know. Now, Hashirama and Madara knew how to keep bijuus in check. However the jinchuriki in terms of "controlling their beast" have to go through the process of becoming allies, not friends. Ex. If Isobu was caught in a sharingan, It's up to Yagura to release him, vice versa.
And regarding Rinne Tensei, It only killed Nagato because he used it on such a large scale to bring back EVERY villager he killed in that invasion.

 

[thegame]

Did you forget the last person? I made it my sig just in case you did . Bee. A jinchuriki just like Yagura. Bee befriended Gyuuki as we already know. Now, Hashirama and Madara knew how to keep bijuus in check. However the jinchuriki in terms of "controlling their beast" have to go through the process of becoming allies, not friends. Ex. If Isobu was caught in a sharingan, It's up to Yagura to release him, vice versa.
And regarding Rinne Tensei, It only killed Nagato because he used it on such a large scale to bring back EVERY villager he killed in that invasion.

First of all you are not understanding my point, which is that, what Danzo refers to as "control a tailed beast", is very unspecific, since he mention both jinchuriki and non-jinchuriki. We cannot go to the conclusion that Bee and Yagura controlled their beasts in similar way, just from that single comment.

And of course there are no direct proofs, that the only way of controlling your bijuu, is by befriending it. We do not know any of Yagura's abilities. If you had certain jutsu, you might easily be able to manipulate and control your bijuu. Say like an Uchiha being a jinchuriki for instance?

Besides, Naruto was able to control Kurama's chakra, by beating him. At that point they weren't friends yet. Would you not define this as "controlling" a tailed beast? I personally would, but how does Danzo define it? We don't know, since the methods Bee, Hashi, and Madara controlled beasts are all different, it is more likely that Yagura did it in another way as well (using that sort of lame logic lol).

We also do not know, for how long, Yagura was controlled by someone else. Did he really control his beast on his own then? Or was it perhaps Obito's doing all along? That is just as likely, if you ask me.

Regarding rinne tensei, I can only say, that Obito clearly will die from reviving a single person? So your assumption on that part, has leaks. I know that is, what Konan said, but I still don't think, Kishi has explained the details of this jutsu to a point, where we can draw conclusions on it. 4th databook should make it clear. Anyway, as I said before, Akatsukis plans were delayed, because they had to wait for the 3-tailed to re-appear, since its host died. So I doubt rinne tensei was ever used. Why extract the beast, revive him, and put it back in??

 

[Moe22]

First of all you are not understanding my point, which is that, what Danzo refers to as "control a tailed beast", is very unspecific, since he mention both jinchuriki and non-jinchuriki. We cannot go to the conclusion that Bee and Yagura controlled their beasts in similar way, just from that single comment.

And of course there are no direct proofs, that the only way of controlling your bijuu, is by befriending it. We do not know any of Yagura's abilities. If you had certain jutsu, you might easily be able to manipulate and control your bijuu. Say like an Uchiha being a jinchuriki for instance?

Besides, Naruto was able to control Kurama's chakra, by beating him. At that point they weren't friends yet. Would you not define this as "controlling" a tailed beast? I personally would, but how does Danzo define it? We don't know, since the methods Bee, Hashi, and Madara controlled beasts are all different, it is more likely that Yagura did it in another way as well (using that sort of lame logic lol).

We also do not know, for how long, Yagura was controlled by someone else. Did he really control his beast on his own then? Or was it perhaps Obito's doing all along? That is just as likely, if you ask me.

Regarding rinne tensei, I can only say, that Obito clearly will die from reviving a single person? So your assumption on that part, has leaks. I know that is, what Konan said, but I still don't think, Kishi has explained the details of this jutsu to a point, where we can draw conclusions on it. 4th databook should make it clear. Anyway, as I said before, Akatsukis plans were delayed, because they had to wait for the 3-tailed to re-appear, since its host died. So I doubt rinne tensei was ever used. Why extract the beast, revive him, and put it back in??

I didn't say they put it back in. Obviously it was roaming in the wild. But I think they Rinne'd Yagura for his power and high status. Regarding whether why Obito will die or not, the jutsu is said to take a massive amount of chakra to preform. Nagato couldn't and didn't bring back Jiraiya and others he killed, but he brought back every leaf shinobi he killed in the invasion. Perhaps Obito is going to die because Madara lived many many years ago, and bringing back recent deaths are easier than deaths that occured a while ago. Sorry if I'm not making sense :/ haha but yes, I believe they brought back Yagura with a smaller scale Rinne Tensei.

 

[thegame]

I didn't say they put it back in. Obviously it was roaming in the wild. But I think they Rinne'd Yagura for his power and high status. Regarding whether why Obito will die or not, the jutsu is said to take a massive amount of chakra to preform. Nagato couldn't and didn't bring back Jiraiya and others he killed, but he brought back every leaf shinobi he killed in the invasion. Perhaps Obito is going to die because Madara lived many many years ago, and bringing back recent deaths are easier than deaths that occured a while ago. Sorry if I'm not making sense :/ haha but yes, I believe they brought back Yagura with a smaller scale Rinne Tensei.

No problem, it makes sense, I do believe the same, however, what I think the jutsu does, is that it shortens your life span rigorously. So for Obito to use it, he would probably shorten his own life too much. Uzumaki has longer life span, so possibly, they could do it. Why couldn't Nagato bring back Jiraya, you ask? I doubt it has anything to do with time.

I once made a long theory/explanation on the 3 worlds in Naruto. Shortly we have the impure world (earth), the pure world (heaven), and the world between them, lets call it pre-pure world (ppw). In the ppw, you are preparing to go to the pure world, however, if you made some "big" mistakes in your life, and cannot forgive yourself, you are unable to move on to the pure world, and you will be stock between.

A soul can only be brought back with rinne tensei, when it has not yet entered the pure world. In other words the person still wants to go back. If you have just recently died, you do not move on to the next world right away, which is why, it is easy to revive people, who has just died.

Best proof is Kakashi and his dad. Kakashi meets his dad in this ppw, where they talk, and his father is forgiven, so that he can move on. He obviously stayed in this world for very long, and he would have stayed there, forever, if Kakashi had not dumped in to forgive him. Jiraya moved on. Given his last thoughts, he said, he was finally able to do the right thing, and he died in the right way, etc.. Madara would then obviously know all about this, and he made sure (in whatever unknown way) that his soul would stay in the ppw.

I still, however, don't think the 3-tailed roamed wild, as you say. It was clearly said (by Itachi), that they had no reason to capture Naruto in part 1, because they had to wait 3 years, before their plans could start. This was because Yagura had died, and they needed to wait for the beast to reappear. So it wouldn't make sense if he was ever revived by rinne tensei, would more be a waste of life force by Nagato.

 

[Moe22]

Okay, you got me, my theory is kinda stupid no that I look at it XD
But I'm really interested in your theory. So I have a question regarding your statement (which is brilliant by the way). So Let's say Kabuto finds the DNA of Sakumo Hatake. And he does the ritual, are you saying it simply won't work? So everyone that was edo-tensei'd could not move on to the pure world?

 

[Supreme x Uchiha]

Good theory.