Naruto invades the Akatsuki

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What can he do?

He wouldn't cause that much trouble, giving that he doesn't have his 6 paths, or his tailed beasts. Obito would be in a tight cave, giving naruto a better advantage of hitting him.

They would also have a hard time, distinguishing which one is the real Naruto.

Kisame have Killer Bee trouble by himself, and in truth Killer Bee isn't that much below Naruto.

Obito just has to wait until Naruto is distracted by a another member, then zap him in with kamui.

I'll admit some members would be basically useless against this Naruto- Sasori, Hidan, Zetsu- but another thing is that Naruto doesn't automatically make like 1,000 clones like he used to, ecspecially in his BM Mode. He'll make about 5-6 i could guess, which I honestly believe the Akatsuki members could handle.
 

Edo Odin

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cripple edo nagato caught a KCM Naruto who was in free-fall (where speed doesn't matter) using a summon naruto had no knowledge about while naruto was hit with biggest case of PIS anyone was hit with in the manga ( )
The point still stands. A man who was barely able to walk by himself managed to find a way to throw Naruto off his feet, and use it to his advantage. A team composed of every single Akatsuki would find a way too, especially when you consider the fact that a lot of them have moves which Naruto has never seen before (Great Shark Bullet, C4, Iron Sand, Konan's Paper, Izanagi for example) A combination from these attacks would manage to get Naruto off his feet, as he has no idea how these attacks work, meaning that the Akatsuki still have a lot that can be used against him.

he used 13 KCM clones after spamming KCM for 12+ hours and then those same clones spent hours in KCM while travelling to the variuos battlefields and fighting the edo kages and zetsus. one of his clones was able to create a bijuurasengan which requires incomparably more chakra than a FRS. chakra and time won't be an issue.
Please, 95% of the time he spent in KCM he was doing nothing but running. After he actually started fighting, the KCM mode ran out fairly quickly.

I'm also assuming that he'd go into BM mode, which is immensely chakra consuming, as seen when the fox stated that it could only be held up for about five minutes [ - ]

When fighting against 10 Kage level ninja, along with the Gedo Mazo, he won't be able to withhold the KCM/BM for nearly as long, because

  • This time, he'd be fighting 10 ninjas at once, but not simply running
  • This time, he'd be using BM along with the KCM, meaning that the chakra to use the KCM clones would be a lot less
  • Since the BM is far from completed, he won't be able to hold it up for long, as it consumes so much chakra.

You're stating that he can withhold it for a long amount of time, solely basing your argument on the fact that he managed to "run with the KCM active" for a long time, while forgetting the fact that running is not chakra consuming at all. Fighting 10 Kage level ninja however, is, and since Naruto and the fox only managed to withhold the BM up for 5 minutes vs Obito, the time would be even shorter, considering the fact that now he'd be using a heckload of clones along with him.

KCM clones don't disperse in a single hit unless that hit is very powerful on a singular target and it has to be at least powerful enough to harm kcm naruto. They not only have the same durability as KCM Naruto shown by their ability to block with zero damage and , but they also can .
...

Please. Blocking a sword ? Hitting a tree ? In no way do these things compare to the damage he'd receive from an attack that managed to break every single bone in the bodies of three Boss toads at once. [ - - ]

Being able to not disperse after running into a tree does in no way mean you won't disperse after a Shinra Tensei, which in this case would be throwing you into a wall in a cave, when we consider the location. I'm surprised that you would even think that.
The real KCM naruto took no damage from nagato's shinra tensei, and we see that if one braces themselves, they can also resist a shinra tensei's power, something that every clone can do via chakra arms.
They won't be able to completely cover themselves with chakra arms in order to block it. It might lessen the blow a bit, but they'd still be getting hit by an attack that was able to completely smash something as big as Gamabunta.

that's not all that great considering naruto's clones can take out kages and are kage level by feats. Naruto's KCM clones can also create armies of base clones weilding Oodama rasengans in order to counter 100 puppets considering a base clone did that with a small amount of Kurama's chakra.
Naruto has tried that before, and we all know what happened. [ - - - ] The results would be exactly the same.
 

lanakui8

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i don't know why i keep doing this with someone who somehow decided that naruto can sense sasori's heart's location because he can sense emotion (wtf)
um.... sasori obviously has emotions and that cylinder of flesh is not litterally a beating heart, it contains all of sasori's cognitive functions which would include his mind/emotions.

...... kisame's water prison moves with the target (nearly impossible to escape by swimming) while the only fast person in water here is kisame (a fish) who will keep on attacking the target inside his jutsu with incredible speed (you mentioned samehada taking damage from absorbing an attack, need proof for that ??).
Kisame's water prison moves with kisame, not the target, and V2 bee who is much slower than KCM Naruto was able to swim as fast as kisame could while dragging a boss summon and samurai rapping man.

Also, speed on land correlates with speed in water so Naruto should still be faster than kisame while in the water, and can still escape the technique via clone spam (since kisame won't know which naruto to go after) swimming to the top (since kisame can't fly) or using a giant rasengan to blow away the localized water around him (like gai did with his 6th gate).

Also my argument is samehada absorbs very little amounts of chakra from an attack and takes the majority of the attacks damage first before absorbing the rest of the attack. Here is the support for that argument:


Now if you look at , it basically proves that samehada only absorbs a tiny portion of the attack's chakra before it gets hit, which is why it dodged bee's sword strike rather than blocking it like it did to his raiton strike.

And is an even better proof of my point. If you look at the scan, Samehada and Kisame take the full hit of lariat, and then it starts to absorb the chakra. If you look closely at the scan, even the horns of bee's chakra skull penetrate through samehada (although some of their chakra has been absorbed).

The same thing would apply to other attacks especially those not made out of raw chakra. Samehada is no preta path, it does not stop the attack in its tracks and then absorb it. And even then we see that if the attack is dense enough, it can penetrate preta's absorption sphere.

itachi can shoot down at least two clones while they are attacking (distracted) from inside his susanoo.
how are the clones going to be distracted? And how is itachi going to tag clones that can move at ei level speed? if he uses amaterasu he has to focus on one and while he does that the other 2 end him. If he uses susanoo, he's going to have a hell of a time hitting one and while he does that the other bust his susanoo with FRS to the back. clone feints are not working as the clones are sensors and the clones have no attack that can hurt KCM clones.

doesn't matter if he BARELY dodged it or not, deva path did it and can also use shinra tensei when ever naruto comes close to him.
deva path barely dodged an unguided FRS, if it was a guided one like what each clone is capable of doing, he would have gotten hit by it. the real naruto will be fighting deva, shinra tensei can be resisted, and with his speed naruto can easily capitalize on the 5 second interval between shinra tenseis even if he is blown away. in addition to that naruto took no damage from nagato's shinra tensei, deva's ones are not even going to hurt him unless they are the super huge ones.

conan can turn to paper (hard to hit for the FRS to make contact meaning dodgable for her as well),
FRS are guided and naruto can make them explode into a high AoE wind sphere by thought. if she is fully dispersed as paper, then yes, the FRS will not take out much of her, however she has to materialize most of her body in order to attack and thus naruto would hit her when she is in this form a he will immediately sense her due to emotion sensing.

naruto cannot tank deidara's explosives
with his chakra cloak he can at least tank those that are below the C2 bomb that blew sasuke's wing off. And with his speed, he is not taking any explosion near the epicenter. Sasuke was taking deidara's C1 explosions and smaller C2 without much damage, the KCM clones have the cloak which gives them super durability and have a lot of HP themselves.

and how many rusenshurikin will he need to get all of kakuzu's hearts again (witch are fighting back) ?? along with kakuzu himself (not the same kakuzu that got trolled by a rasenshurikin) he has all of his power here.
Naruto doesn't need to hit a heart with FRS in order to kill it, a normal rasengan will do the job. Also, the base naruto that trolled kakuzu was weakened when he fought kakuzu in addition to the fact that his FRS was only half complete and in base. A kcm clone is way faster than that KCM Naruto has the complete version of FRS, and has much more chakra than him.

unless of course you are suggesting that naruto can produce an unlimited amount KCM clones that can shoot an unlimited amount of FRS then this won't work. btw you need to know more about the characters bro
I'm not suggesting unlimited KCM clones, 13+ is naruto's limit. he doesn't need an unlimited amount of FRS either. And i'm pretty sure I have good knowledge about the capabilities of all the akatsuki fighters.
 

NagazuDead

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With so many members of Akatsuki... Naruto can't win even though Obito is not there...
 

Eternal Sage

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Nagato, obito, and itachi could eventually take him down
 

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naruto gets raped not even a question kisame seal three tails worth of chakra. deva path itachi and kisame win without a doubt he doesnt last long plus obito it would not even be a fight no one person stand a cahnce against whole group besides hashirama and madara
 

JIRAIYA perv

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um.... sasori obviously has emotions and that cylinder of flesh is not litterally a beating heart, it contains all of sasori's cognitive functions which would include his mind/emotions.


Kisame's water prison moves with kisame, not the target, and V2 bee who is much slower than KCM Naruto was able to swim as fast as kisame could while dragging a boss summon and samurai rapping man.

Also, speed on land correlates with speed in water so Naruto should still be faster than kisame while in the water, and can still escape the technique via clone spam (since kisame won't know which naruto to go after) swimming to the top (since kisame can't fly) or using a giant rasengan to blow away the localized water around him (like gai did with his 6th gate).

Also my argument is samehada absorbs very little amounts of chakra from an attack and takes the majority of the attacks damage first before absorbing the rest of the attack. Here is the support for that argument:


Now if you look at , it basically proves that samehada only absorbs a tiny portion of the attack's chakra before it gets hit, which is why it dodged bee's sword strike rather than blocking it like it did to his raiton strike.

And is an even better proof of my point. If you look at the scan, Samehada and Kisame take the full hit of lariat, and then it starts to absorb the chakra. If you look closely at the scan, even the horns of bee's chakra skull penetrate through samehada (although some of their chakra has been absorbed).

The same thing would apply to other attacks especially those not made out of raw chakra. Samehada is no preta path, it does not stop the attack in its tracks and then absorb it. And even then we see that if the attack is dense enough, it can penetrate preta's absorption sphere.


how are the clones going to be distracted? And how is itachi going to tag clones that can move at ei level speed? if he uses amaterasu he has to focus on one and while he does that the other 2 end him. If he uses susanoo, he's going to have a hell of a time hitting one and while he does that the other bust his susanoo with FRS to the back. clone feints are not working as the clones are sensors and the clones have no attack that can hurt KCM clones.


deva path barely dodged an unguided FRS, if it was a guided one like what each clone is capable of doing, he would have gotten hit by it. the real naruto will be fighting deva, shinra tensei can be resisted, and with his speed naruto can easily capitalize on the 5 second interval between shinra tenseis even if he is blown away. in addition to that naruto took no damage from nagato's shinra tensei, deva's ones are not even going to hurt him unless they are the super huge ones.


FRS are guided and naruto can make them explode into a high AoE wind sphere by thought. if she is fully dispersed as paper, then yes, the FRS will not take out much of her, however she has to materialize most of her body in order to attack and thus naruto would hit her when she is in this form a he will immediately sense her due to emotion sensing.


with his chakra cloak he can at least tank those that are below the C2 bomb that blew sasuke's wing off. And with his speed, he is not taking any explosion near the epicenter. Sasuke was taking deidara's C1 explosions and smaller C2 without much damage, the KCM clones have the cloak which gives them super durability and have a lot of HP themselves.


Naruto doesn't need to hit a heart with FRS in order to kill it, a normal rasengan will do the job. Also, the base naruto that trolled kakuzu was weakened when he fought kakuzu in addition to the fact that his FRS was only half complete and in base. A kcm clone is way faster than that KCM Naruto has the complete version of FRS, and has much more chakra than him.


I'm not suggesting unlimited KCM clones, 13+ is naruto's limit. he doesn't need an unlimited amount of FRS either. And i'm pretty sure I have good knowledge about the capabilities of all the akatsuki fighters.

so naruto's emotion sensing would do the trick .... sigh ok .... and as i expected, naruto is all on the offence coz his speed takes care of everything huh (screw defence) .... i said itachi can take care of the clones that are attacking other akatsuki members and kisame's water prison moves with the target/kisame (have it your way) doesn't matter, the two in the same sphere, one a lot faster in water (won't leave space for the victim to act) one clone/original down (itachi has a sharingan: original naruto). and did you say naruto can make 13 + KCM clones strong enough to take on the aktauski (what is this JUUBI'S chakra) ?? later
 

lanakui8

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The point still stands. A man who was barely able to walk by himself managed to find a way to throw Naruto off his feet, and use it to his advantage. A team composed of every single Akatsuki would find a way too, especially when you consider the fact that a lot of them have moves which Naruto has never seen before (Great Shark Bullet, C4, Iron Sand, Konan's Paper, Izanagi for example) A combination from these attacks would manage to get Naruto off his feet, as he has no idea how these attacks work, meaning that the Akatsuki still have a lot that can be used against him.
The point does not apply since not only is nagato by far the most powerful akatsuki member, but naruto had no knowledge and was not going for the kill in that situation.
due to the area of the fight, great shark bullet would not be usable since it's a cave, C4 would kill all of deidara's teamates in the cave, deidara would get ended before then due to the tech's prep, and KCM Naruto is a mild chakra sensor as well, iron sand is a straightforward attack that he just needs to avoid, konan's paper was avoided by base jiraiya and is pretty straight forward, izanagi is not getting the slip on him due to his emotion sensing.

Please, 95% of the time he spent in KCM he was doing nothing but running. After he actually started fighting, the KCM mode ran out fairly quickly.
holding the KCM cloak takes a lot of chakra, kurama started warning Naruto that he was squandering his chakra after just using the cloak as a flashlight at the very beginning of the night.
KCM Naruto was in his , and then some. Then he split his remaining Those shadow clones spent hours travelling to the various battlefields From there that clone used a rasnegan planet, FRS, and however he did not have the 8:2 black to white ration down yet so the bijuudama dispelled. And throughout that entire time, Kurama was sucking out Naruto's chakra.

As you know the bijuurasengan contains so much chakra that Naruto can barely hold it up in KCM which means Naruto would be able to use many FRS with the amount of chakra he used to make that one bijuurasengan.

The KCM Naruto in this thread starts with 100% of his chakra and with a friendly kurama.

I'm also assuming that he'd go into BM mode, which is immensely chakra consuming, as seen when the fox stated that it could only be held up for about five minutes [ - ]
The BM that has the 5 and 8 minute time limit is only when he uses the full kurama avatar. That's why when he uses it the second time, he is able to fight in human BM for 10 chapters, and then use the kurama avatar for 3 until finally he is forced out of that mode. And kurama states that he held that mode for 8 minutes vs 5 minutes that went by in 2 chapters.

Also his BM chakra supply is seperate from his KCM chakra supply. He melds his chakra with kurama's in order to use BM, his KCM is stored in a separate place that he has access to. So even if BM is gone, he still has his full KCM chakra supply.

When fighting against 10 Kage level ninja, along with the Gedo Mazo, he won't be able to withhold the KCM/BM for nearly as long, because

  • This time, he'd be fighting 10 ninjas at once, but not simply running
  • This time, he'd be using BM along with the KCM, meaning that the chakra to use the KCM clones would be a lot less
  • Since the BM is far from completed, he won't be able to hold it up for long, as it consumes so much chakra.
We already see he amount of chakra just one of his clone has (the clone that fought with muu and sandaime raikage). that clone despite running for hours with the KCM cloak was able to use rasengan planet, guided FRS and even create a bijuurasengan before losing the shroud. bijuursengan takes incomparably more chakra than a FRS, and therefore he would be able to do many FRS with that chakra. In addition to that the fight is not going to take hours due to the nature of naruto's clones being fast and one-hit killers.

You're stating that he can withhold it for a long amount of time, solely basing your argument on the fact that he managed to "run with the KCM active" for a long time, while forgetting the fact that running is not chakra consuming at all. Fighting 10 Kage level ninja however, is, and since Naruto and the fox only managed to withhold the BM up for 5 minutes vs Obito, the time would be even shorter, considering the fact that now he'd be using a heckload of clones along with him.
After naruto split his kcm chakra evenly with the clones, we see that he is able to hold the cloak, fight with nagato and itachi, hold the cloak longer and fight with the edo jinks. All his clones created from that time are equal which means they'd all be able to perform naruto and his clone that fought the edo kage's chakra feats. And Naruto vs 10 Kage level ninjas is disengenuous. Naruto's clone already had the chakra to fight multiple kage level ninjas while the kages had unlimited chakra and stamina. Naruto has at least 13 of those clones with him, thus KCM Naruto + 13 kage level clones have more than enough chakra to fight 10 kage level ninjas.

Please. Blocking a sword ? Hitting a tree ? In no way do these things compare to the damage he'd receive from an attack that managed to break every single bone in the bodies of three Boss toads at once. [ - - ]
he would withstand that attack with chakra arms, and shinra tensei affects the target based on the target's size, deva path was sent across konoha by his own shinra tensei and was barely even damaged and tsunade survived CST despite using no healing abilities or protection for herself. Base naruto with his clones has withstood deva's powerful shinra tensei by bracing himself and withstanding the gravity.

Being able to not disperse after running into a tree does in no way mean you won't disperse after a Shinra Tensei, which in this case would be throwing you into a wall in a cave, when we consider the location. I'm surprised that you would even think that.
Shinra tensei barely even popped naruto's sage clone, KCM Naruto took no damage from nagato's shinra tensei, and Deva is going to be fighting the real KCM Naruto like I said who would be able to take those high powered shinra tenseis.

They won't be able to completely cover themselves with chakra arms in order to block it. It might lessen the blow a bit, but they'd still be getting hit by an attack that was able to completely smash something as big as Gamabunta.
Shinra tensei is gravity force which affects things equally regardless of their size, the reason gamabunta and co took so much damage is party because they were so huge which is why they sustain much more damage from falling. Another example of this would be gamabunta's inability to get up after merely falling off of cerebrus.

Naruto has tried that before, and we all know what happened. [ - - - ] The results would be exactly the same.
that's against pain, and I'm not saying he uses the clone army against pain, the real fights him while the KCM clones fight the other akatsuki members.
 
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lanakui8

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so naruto's emotion sensing would do the trick .... sigh ok .... and as i expected,
if you can give an argument why he would not be able to sense sasori or konan who both have minds and emotions via emotion sensing then post it, otherwise it logically follows that he senses them.

naruto is all on the offence coz his speed takes care of everything huh (screw defence)
he's not all on the offense, I listed how he would play on the defensive when they use their jutsu

.... i said itachi can take care of the clones that are attacking other akatsuki members
if itachi focuses on those clones the ones he'll get killed by the ones that are fighting him.

and kisame's water prison moves with the target/kisame (have it your way) doesn't matter, the two in the same sphere, one a lot faster in water (won't leave space for the victim to act) one clone/original down
This will be the third time I am giving you the argument about naruto's counters to Kisame's water dome:
- spam clones, kisame and the dome can only follow one naruto
- super speed speed on land correlates to speed in the water, V2 bee is faster than kisame in the water, KCM Naruto is way faster than V2 bee
- swimming to the top since kisame can't fly, his water dome would not more vertically
- giant rasengan repels the water like gai's gates did
- the fact that kisame isn't going to use a mountain-sized water dome in a cave with teamates
- the fact that kisame can't use a water dome even close to the size of the one he used against Bee unless he absorbs stupid amounts of chakra

(itachi has a sharingan: original naruto).
sharingan can't tell the difference between shadow clones and original

and did you say naruto can make 13 + KCM clones strong enough to take on the aktauski (what is this JUUBI'S chakra) ?? later
I see nothing wrong with that statement. 1 KCM clone has more chakra, more durability, far more speed, better sensing, better taijutsu, and more firepower than almost every member of the akatsuki. The KCM clone was fighting the past kages and landed a FRS on the 3rd fastest shinobi in raw movement speed. The only thing the akatsuki members have over the clone is HP, but we've seen that clone can take some damage without poofing via meteor drop.

Put the clone 1 vs 1 against any member of the akatsuki besides deva path and itachi and it will win.
 

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Eeeeh, unlikely he beats all of em
Maybe Hidan but if all of the akatsuki work as a team he is ****ed beyond belief
 

Edo Odin

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The point does not apply since not only is nagato by far the most powerful akatsuki member, but naruto had no knowledge and was not going for the kill in that situation.
due to the area of the fight, great shark bullet would not be usable since it's a cave, C4 would kill all of deidara's teamates in the cave, deidara would get ended before then due to the tech's prep, and KCM Naruto is a mild chakra sensor as well, iron sand is a straightforward attack that he just needs to avoid, konan's paper was avoided by base jiraiya and is pretty straight forward, izanagi is not getting the slip on him due to his emotion sensing.
Does not apply ? So, Nagato being more powerful than the others suddenly means that their attacks are suddenly useless ? Not at all.

I don't get your point with the GBS. Them being in a cave does not men that Kisame can't fire one at them from close range.

Itachi and Pain can see the small bombs, and with Pain's Shinare Tensei, he could keep the bombs, along with Naruto's clones, away from him and his team, meaning that his partners wouldn't be damaged at all.

The paper will be harder to avoid when inside a cave, and since Naruto will have to be defending from a lot of other attacks, defending against a hoard of paper will not be as easy as you seem to think.

While Tobi is intangible, he's not in the same dimension as they are, so Naruto can't sense him or his emotions. This'd give Tobi a great advantage since Naruto would think that he had already taken him out, so he wouldn't be expecting as attack from thin air.
holding the KCM cloak takes a lot of chakra, kurama started warning Naruto that he was squandering his chakra after just using the cloak as a flashlight at the very beginning of the night.
KCM Naruto was in his , and then some. Then he split his remaining Those shadow clones spent hours travelling to the various battlefields From there that clone used a rasnegan planet, FRS, and however he did not have the 8:2 black to white ration down yet so the bijuudama dispelled. And throughout that entire time, Kurama was sucking out Naruto's chakra.
For some reason I don't quite understand, you seem to be assuming that the KCM takes some immense amount of chakra, while that is not necessarily the case at all. All the fox said was that he was wasting it, he didn't say how much he was wasting by simply holding it up.

However, what we do know is that after Naruto started fighting, he only had the energy to use a Planetary Rasengan and a Rasenshuriken before filing to do the TBB. That's the amount of chakra the KCM clones have, and against the entire Akatsuki, which has members that can absorb, dispel, or burn chakra, that's not too much at all.
As you know the bijuurasengan contains so much chakra that Naruto can barely hold it up in KCM which means Naruto would be able to use many FRS with the amount of chakra he used to make that one bijuurasengan.

The KCM Naruto in this thread starts with 100% of his chakra and with a friendly kurama.
Alright, first of all, he failed to use that Bijuudama, and finished up his chakra doing it because he had wasted chakra doin the PR and the FRS. Second, you're only assuming that a Bijuudama contains the chakra for "many FRS". That's in no way necessarily the case, and is simply an assumption on your part.

Your point simply revolves around "He could do two attacks, and then filed to do one more, which means that now he can do a lot of Rasenshuriken" It doesn't make sense.


The BM that has the 5 and 8 minute time limit is only when he uses the full kurama avatar. That's why when he uses it the second time, he is able to fight in human BM for 10 chapters, and then use the kurama avatar for 3 until finally he is forced out of that mode. And kurama states that he held that mode for 8 minutes vs 5 minutes that went by in 2 chapters.

Also his BM chakra supply is seperate from his KCM chakra supply. He melds his chakra with kurama's in order to use BM, his KCM is stored in a separate place that he has access to. So even if BM is gone, he still has his full KCM chakra supply.


We already see he amount of chakra just one of his clone has (the clone that fought with muu and sandaime raikage). that clone despite running for hours with the KCM cloak was able to use rasengan planet, guided FRS and even create a bijuurasengan before losing the shroud. bijuursengan takes incomparably more chakra than a FRS, and therefore he would be able to do many FRS with that chakra. In addition to that the fight is not going to take hours due to the nature of naruto's clones being fast and one-hit killers.


After naruto split his kcm chakra evenly with the clones, we see that he is able to hold the cloak, fight with nagato and itachi, hold the cloak longer and fight with the edo jinks. All his clones created from that time are equal which means they'd all be able to perform naruto and his clone that fought the edo kage's chakra feats. And Naruto vs 10 Kage level ninjas is disengenuous. Naruto's clone already had the chakra to fight multiple kage level ninjas while the kages had unlimited chakra and stamina. Naruto has at least 13 of those clones with him, thus KCM Naruto + 13 kage level clones have more than enough chakra to fight 10 kage level ninjas.
Again, you rely way too much on the assumption that running with the KCM up wastes some immense amount of chakra. When it all comes down to nothing, he managed to use one planetary rasengan, one FRS, and then failed to do a Bijuudama. And that's the mount of chakra each KCM clone had.

he would withstand that attack with chakra arms, and shinra tensei affects the target based on the target's size, deva path was sent across konoha by his own shinra tensei and was barely even damaged and tsunade survived CST despite using no healing abilities or protection for herself. Base naruto with his clones has withstood deva's powerful shinra tensei by bracing himself and withstanding the gravity.
While he's using the chakra arms to hold himself on the ground, he's still vulnerable to anything the other Akatsuki members might do to him. If he stands completely still, there's nothing preventing him from getting hit by an Amaterasu for example, which'd kill him.

Shinra tensei barely even popped naruto's sage clone, KCM Naruto took no damage from nagato's shinra tensei, and Deva is going to be fighting the real KCM Naruto like I said who would be able to take those high powered shinra tenseis.
Once again, you assume way too much. This "barely" stuff seems to simply come from nowhere other than your imagination. All we saw was that it popped the SM clone, and threw back the KCM clone. You don't know if the SM clone was just barely popped, and you don't know if the KCM clone took no damage from it at all.

Shinra tensei is gravity force which affects things equally regardless of their size, the reason gamabunta and co took so much damage is party because they were so huge which is why they sustain much more damage from falling. Another example of this would be gamabunta's inability to get up after merely falling off of cerebrus.
Even if that was the case, an attack that breaks through walls fairly easily would not have much trouble dispersing a clone.

that's against pain, and I'm not saying he uses the clone army against pain, the real fights him while the KCM clones fight the other akatsuki members.[/QUOTE
The members, knowing Naruto, would not take the risk of splitting up. They'd stick together, using their long range attacks when they have the chance, using Pain and his power to keep Naruto and his clones at bay.






This'll be my last post. This debate is going nowhere, and based on how you keep on assuming things to try to support your case, I don't see it going anywhere in the future. Believe what you will.
 

lanakui8

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Does not apply ? So, Nagato being more powerful than the others suddenly means that their attacks are suddenly useless ? Not at all.
that's a blatant strawman of my argument. You were the one using just resume hype about cripple nagato (who was not the one who caught naruto) was able to throw naruto off of his feet and thus the other akatsuki members would be able to do so.

I don't get your point with the GBS. Them being in a cave does not men that Kisame can't fire one at them from close range.
he needs a water source to use GBS like he did in canon

Itachi and Pain can see the small bombs, and with Pain's Shinare Tensei, he could keep the bombs, along with Naruto's clones, away from him and his team, meaning that his partners wouldn't be damaged at all.
Shinra tensei only works every 5 seconds so the bombs will come back into his airspace within that timeframe, it cannot target specific targets like naruto's clones and not his akatsuki teamates if they are about in the battlefield, and if he wastes his shinra tensei on that, naruto's clones end him. And of course, due to the clone's speed Dediara would never be able to pull off a C4.

The paper will be harder to avoid when inside a cave, and since Naruto will have to be defending from a lot of other attacks, defending against a hoard of paper will not be as easy as you seem to think.
jiraiya easily avoided konan's paper while in base, unlike tobi naruto doesn't have to be anywhere near konan in order to defeat her, and she has to be somewhat full in order to attack him.

While Tobi is intangible, he's not in the same dimension as they are, so Naruto can't sense him or his emotions. This'd give Tobi a great advantage since Naruto would think that he had already taken him out, so he wouldn't be expecting as attack from thin air.
naruto sensed his emotions while he was intangible in canon. And iirc Tobi is not in this thread since he was not part of akatsuki until Sasori was killed.

For some reason I don't quite understand, you seem to be assuming that the KCM takes some immense amount of chakra, while that is not necessarily the case at all. All the fox said was that he was wasting it, he didn't say how much he was wasting by simply holding it up.
How in the world does Kurama's quote not imply that holding the cloak takes lots of chakra? Naruto held the cloak for just 1 chapter and Kurama is already complaining about him squandering his chakra. That's canonical proof that holding the cloak does in fact use up a significant amount of chakra. Unless you have evidence to the contrary the point stands.

However, what we do know is that after Naruto started fighting, he only had the energy to use a Planetary Rasengan and a Rasenshuriken before filing to do the TBB. That's the amount of chakra the KCM clones have, and against the entire Akatsuki, which has members that can absorb, dispel, or burn chakra, that's not too much at all.
That's more than enough chakra against the akatsuki members. Each of his clones have far more chakra than base naruto has who is a canonical chakra monster. Unless you can show how he loses his chakra cloak before beating the akatsuki members its merely a baseless assumption on your part to say "he's going to lose his cloak because the akatsuki members are that good".

Alright, first of all, he failed to use that Bijuudama, and finished up his chakra doing it because he had wasted chakra doin the PR and the FRS. Second, you're only assuming that a Bijuudama contains the chakra for "many FRS". That's in no way necessarily the case, and is simply an assumption on your part.
It is in no way an assumption on my part that a Bijuudama consists of many FRS. the amount of chakra it takes to make a bijuudama is so great that naruto even while in KCM can barely hold the technique up, yet he is easily able to run with FRS while he is in base. Bijuudama gets its power from just shape manipulation and chakra while FRS gets its power from shape manipulation, chakra and nature transformation. KCM Naruto thought that the bijuudama had a chance of defeating sandaime raikage despite the fact that FRS only gave him scratches thus a bijuurasengan must at least be as strong as a FRS, yet since it lacks nature transformation which exponentially increase the power of the technique, it would have to make up for that with chakra quantity. and thus by both weight of the technique and technique mechanics a bijuudama requires incomparably more chakra than FRS.
now if you don't agree with this argument, you must not only attack my stance but also errect your own argument about how a bijuurasengan is NOT equivalent to many FRS.

Your point simply revolves around "He could do two attacks, and then filed to do one more, which means that now he can do a lot of Rasenshuriken" It doesn't make sense.
no my point revolves around explicit author intention to tell the readers that just holding the KCM cloak drains naruto's KCM chakra, in addition to both attack mechanics and chakra weight.


Again, you rely way too much on the assumption that running with the KCM up wastes some immense amount of chakra. When it all comes down to nothing, he managed to use one planetary rasengan, one FRS, and then failed to do a Bijuudama. And that's the mount of chakra each KCM clone had.
It's in no way shape or form an assumption if I back my assertion up with canonical manga evidence. You would be the one who is trying to relentlessly downplay the KCM clone's chakra by ignoring Kurama's blatant statement about holding the cloak, and the fact that before the clone did that, KCM Naruto held the cloak for over half a day, and then split his chakra 13 ways and then that chakra was also held for hours until the clone reached the battlefield. If you simply ignore blatant manga feats and details that don't necessarily work for your argument it's a tacit concession on your part as it tells us that without ignoring them, your stance would hold no water.

While he's using the chakra arms to hold himself on the ground, he's still vulnerable to anything the other Akatsuki members might do to him. If he stands completely still, there's nothing preventing him from getting hit by an Amaterasu for example, which'd kill him.
If itachi tries to attack a clone or the real that is fighting deva, he gets killed by the clones that are fighting him. Deva has never ever localized his shinra tensei on multipple objects scattered around the battlefield while not affecting everything else.

Once again, you assume way too much. This "barely" stuff seems to simply come from nowhere other than your imagination. All we saw was that it popped the SM clone, and threw back the KCM clone. You don't know if the SM clone was just barely popped, and you don't know if the KCM clone took no damage from it at all.
Its easy for anyone looking at the scans objectively to see that it did in fact barely pop the SM clone since the clone gets slammed around the ground a couple of times without poofing and finally poofs at the same time the real's momemntum stops. And we do know that the KCM clone took no damage from the attack due to the lack of scuff marks from the attack. Now if you want to assert a counterargument you would have to provide evidence that KCM Naruto in fact DID take damage from that attack and the SM clone in fact did not almost survive shinra tensei.

Even if that was the case, an attack that breaks through walls fairly easily would not have much trouble dispersing a clone.
not if the real naruto takes no damage from a more powerful attack, if the clones can also take damage without poofing, and if the clones can brace themselves with chakra arms and if kakashi who had no super durability doesn't take heavy damage from that attack.

The members, knowing Naruto, would not take the risk of splitting up. They'd stick together, using their long range attacks when they have the chance, using Pain and his power to keep Naruto and his clones at bay.
the members have zero knowledge on KCM Naruto and thus they would not act like how you are saying they would and even if they did, will not be keeping the clones at bay with his 5 second (which by the way would be much longer if he wants to do anything to the clones since he takes longer to recharge the bigger the ST) shinra tensei when the clones can throw guided FRS that can cross the entire chibaku tensei crater in a single second. If they are all close to each other, it's that much easier for naruto since none of them can survive the wind sphere and thus a single KCM FRS will be taking out multiples of akatsuki members at the same time.





This'll be my last post. This debate is going nowhere, and based on how you keep on assuming things to try to support your case, I don't see it going anywhere in the future. Believe what you will.
I am in no way shape or form assuming anything. Every single point I have made has been backed up with many manga scans and feats. Now admittedly, when I state an assertion, I have not always backed up that assertion right after stating it, however when and if I did that, it's only because I assumed that a poster like yourself who's been here since jun 2012 would already know the arguments that I would make to back up my assertion because I think they are pretty common. For example: when I asserted shinra tensei barely popped a SM clone, I assumed you would know which instance I was talking about (the one where the clone only popped after slamming into the ground a couple of times) or when I asserted a bijuurasengan has incomparably more chakra than a FRS, I assumed you would know that compared to a FRS, the bijuudama has so much chakra packed into it and is so dense, KCM NAruto can barely even hold it up.

So if I came across as just stating something that you believe has no manga basis, I apologize, as it was my fault for assuming that you would know the arguments I would use to back up my assertions.

It would be you who just rejects my evidence and ignores blatant manga statements and author intentions who would be guilty of "believing what you want to believe".
 
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JIRAIYA perv

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if you can give an argument why he would not be able to sense sasori or konan who both have minds and emotions via emotion sensing then post it, otherwise it logically follows that he senses them.


he's not all on the offense, I listed how he would play on the defensive when they use their jutsu


if itachi focuses on those clones the ones he'll get killed by the ones that are fighting him.


This will be the third time I am giving you the argument about naruto's counters to Kisame's water dome:
- spam clones, kisame and the dome can only follow one naruto
- super speed speed on land correlates to speed in the water, V2 bee is faster than kisame in the water, KCM Naruto is way faster than V2 bee
- swimming to the top since kisame can't fly, his water dome would not more vertically
- giant rasengan repels the water like gai's gates did
- the fact that kisame isn't going to use a mountain-sized water dome in a cave with teamates
- the fact that kisame can't use a water dome even close to the size of the one he used against Bee unless he absorbs stupid amounts of chakra


sharingan can't tell the difference between shadow clones and original


I see nothing wrong with that statement. 1 KCM clone has more chakra, more durability, far more speed, better sensing, better taijutsu, and more firepower than almost every member of the akatsuki. The KCM clone was fighting the past kages and landed a FRS on the 3rd fastest shinobi in raw movement speed. The only thing the akatsuki members have over the clone is HP, but we've seen that clone can take some damage without poofing via meteor drop.

Put the clone 1 vs 1 against any member of the akatsuki besides deva path and itachi and it will win.

dude ..... this "he can sense emotions so he can sense sasori's heart and the time conan materialize" is BS no offence (pure assumptions) and his ability doesn't apply specially in Conan's case, and what's with the naruto can make 13+ KCM clones ?? and you answered me as if kisame trapped the original (the one who can make clones for your escape strategy to work). it's funny how you like to interpret the manga in your own way and assume a whole lot of stuff.
 

lanakui8

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dude ..... this "he can sense emotions so he can sense sasori's heart and the time conan materialize" is BS no offence (pure assumptions) and his ability doesn't apply specially in Conan's case,
um... why would he not be able to sense them? He senses emotions, konan has emotions so he's be able to sense her wherever she materializes. And sasori's heart is not litterally a heart it's his entire essence which would include his mind and thus include his emotions.

and what's with the naruto can make 13+ KCM clones ??
Um.... after spamming his KCM for 12 hours, playing tag with Ei, and beating white zetsus all the while Kurama is draining his chakra since he wasn't friends with it. How would naruto not be able to use that many if he is friendly with Kurama and at 100% in this thread?

and you answered me as if kisame trapped the original (the one who can make clones for your escape strategy to work).
wait, so are you actually saying you didn't know that Naruto's clones also have the ability to make clones?

it's funny how you like to interpret the manga in your own way and assume a whole lot of stuff.
It's even more funny because I have not made a single assumption in this thread that I have not backed up with heavy manga evidence. And the fact that you just assert that I am assuming a whole lot of stuff without telling me exactly what I am assuming leads me to believe you just said that because that other guy I was debating with (6-paths) made that accusation.
 

Draphsin

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Ill give him Hidan (Naruto can obliterate him with a bijuudama), Kakuzu (multiple KM clones can handle multiple hearts, also base naruto took out kakuzu with 2 hearts so 5 for BM + clones it would be easy), Zetsu (kinda obvious U_U), and possibly Konan (depending if pein wants to save her ass or not).

The rest he will lose to:

Sasori's poison can paralyze him and his 100 puppets + Iron sand can keep a multitude of his clones at bay. Plus deidara will most likely be standing behind his partner spamming bombs on top of that

Kisame and Itachi will also be together and samehada will devour naruto's chakra, causing him to fight from a distance. Thats when Itachi's genjutsu will come into play....

And last but not least Deva Pein, ive got two words for naruto: Chibaku Tensei XD


Btw great thread :win:
 
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Klad

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Naruto has no chances though.
 

Your Creepy Stalker

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No. Naruto is a perfect jin.​

Doont you remember when Sasuke suppressed the kyubi's chakra. With Sharingan. or when obito controlled the kyuubi. With MS. Or when Madara did the same thing. With EMS.
And now, your claming that the kyuubi, who has been dominated three times by sharingan, can be affected by it.
 
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