hashirama and madara

[Hashirama Senjuu]

Too bad Naruto already has Kurama.

thank you, lol

 

[Waltz]

Madara is able to to make 25 mokuton clones, all wielding the rinnegan and EMS not to mention respective abilities for each doujutsu but also the ability to act co-ordinately without madara's actual presence. Based on Mokuton's composition Pretapath will render it useless on contact and this goes for each clone. Madara has already stated that his EMS is able to see throuhgh hashirama's mokuton bunshin and also has the abilitiy to anticipate attacks.

Given that he has his edo abilities, he is able to use all the jutsu he copied from hashirama and possibly to the extents of shinshuusenju as Senjutsu acts an amplifier for the technique, and Mokuton itself absorbs Nautral energy. Added to this, the rinnegan is a greater potential threat in comparison with the kyuubi, which hashirama himself stated was overwhelming. At the end of the day, EMS renders Bringer of darkness useless and Hashirama has no arsenal to counter Madara and his mokuton//rinnegan wielding bunshins. Hashirama canonically bested EMS Madara in his prime at high difficulties. His Edo-tensei form however is far beyond what he was capable of at vote; Madara would take this quite comfortably as he canonically has full knowledge of what hashirama is capable of.

 

[L Lawliet]

If we're talking about who could win in those conditions, I'm afraid I'll go for Hashirama, even though the battle could leave him in a very bad shape. We've seen a lot from Madara, and too little from Hashirama. My experience says... Fear those from whom you've seen the least.

 

[TheAwesomeOne]

Well, I would say it would come out in a tie but, I am unsure. The reason for this is because Hashirama's strongest technique is The 1,000 Armed Giant and Madara's is Perfect Susano'o. However, the Susano'o we saw was not Perfect Susano'o, or should I say the chakra was not stabilized which made the Susano'o smaller and in the shape as Sasuke's and Itachi's. I am leaning toward the Madara side even though the restrictions are only toward him. I believe Madara would win because he still has Moukuton and can use it only a close scale to Hashirama and Madara also has Rinnegan which gives him an edge.

In Short:
Madara with Rinnegan, Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, and Moukuton is greater than Hashirama due to the advantages of Rinnegan and Sharingan while the Moukuton cancels out the Moukuton. If the Moukuton cancels out the Moukuton then all Hashirama has is Sage Mode while Madara's Rinnegan and Sharingan and Susano'o overpowers that.

 

[Hashirama Senjuu]

Madara is able to to make 25 mokuton clones, all wielding the rinnegan and EMS not to mention respective abilities for each doujutsu but also the ability to act co-ordinately without madara's actual presence. Based on Mokuton's composition Pretapath will render it useless on contact and this goes for each clone. Madara has already stated that his EMS is able to see throuhgh hashirama's mokuton bunshin and also has the abilitiy to anticipate attacks.

Given that he has his edo abilities, he is able to use all the jutsu he copied from hashirama and possibly to the extents of shinshuusenju as Senjutsu acts an amplifier for the technique, and Mokuton itself absorbs Nautral energy. Added to this, the rinnegan is a greater potential threat in comparison with the kyuubi, which hashirama himself stated was overwhelming. At the end of the day, EMS renders Bringer of darkness useless and Hashirama has no arsenal to counter Madara and his mokuton wielding bunshins. Hashirama canonically bested EMS Madara in his prime at high difficulties. His Edo-tensei for however is far beyond what he was capable of at vote; Madara would take this quite comfortably as he canonically has full knowledge of what hashirama is capable of.

Yet sm Hashirama can probably use twice as many wood clones, he could probably have like 5 wood dragons and etc. He will undoubtedly outlast madara, and re read the part that says he not Edo but has his Edo abilities.

 

[Jukain]

Id give it to Madara. He didnt have rinnengan before so the battle will be completley different. We have seen that rinnengan with susanoo together is amplified so if he can use it like Nagato can and use susanoo together, honestly Hashi will lose. Rinnengan used together with PS is just too much probably even for Hashi. From what it seems Hashi barley won last time so with Madara hacing rinnegnan its pretty much going in Madaras favor.

Rinnengan with Susanno is better than Susanno and 9tails

 

[Waltz]

Yet sm Hashirama can probably use twice as many wood clones, he could probably have like 5 wood dragons and etc. He will undoubtedly outlast madara, and re read the part that says he not Edo but has his Edo abilities.

Scans or stop fantasizing.

 

[Hashirama Senjuu]

Scans or stop fantasizing.

You cant prove he cant. You cant say he cant as it hasn't been shown, so you stop fantasizing puppy genitals

 

[Hashirama Senjuu]

Scans or stop fantasizing.

oh and if u haven't noticed I was on both sides as I agreed with the people who said madara but then you have to come and be a do.uche for no reason at all. Thanks.

 

[KingHashirama]

Well, I would say it would come out in a tie but, I am unsure. The reason for this is because Hashirama's strongest technique is The 1,000 Armed Giant and Madara's is Perfect Susano'o. However, the Susano'o we saw was not Perfect Susano'o, or should I say the chakra was not stabilized which made the Susano'o smaller and in the shape as Sasuke's and Itachi's. I am leaning toward the Madara side even though the restrictions are only toward him. I believe Madara would win because he still has Moukuton and can use it only a close scale to Hashirama and Madara also has Rinnegan which gives him an edge.

In Short:
Madara with Rinnegan, Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, and Moukuton is greater than Hashirama due to the advantages of Rinnegan and Sharingan while the Moukuton cancels out the Moukuton. If the Moukuton cancels out the Moukuton then all Hashirama has is Sage Mode while Madara's Rinnegan and Sharingan and Susano'o overpowers that.

.. But Hashirama is..... protrayed stronger.... And saying "Mokuton cancels out the Mokuton".. is just weird....

Madara's true power = Perfect Susano'o

Hashirama's strongest jutsu = 1000 hands

As far as their strongest goes.. Hashirama is superior.. And also Hashirama is superior in Base Form (atleast he portrayed superior) also:

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[Waltz]

You cant prove he cant. You cant say he cant as it hasn't been shown, so you stop fantasizing puppy genitals

There's no documentation in the Manga or Databook of him doing so, thats my proof. There is great fallacy in the argument your unable to sustain, save fantasies.

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[Hashirama Senjuu]

There's no documentation in the Manga or Databook of him doing so, thats my proof. There is great fallacy in the argument your not able sustain, save fantasies.

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But when in sage mode your jutsu are increased and you gain more chakra, he would be able to make more dragons and clones, but if you want to be technical, show me in the manga where he cant do that.

 

[TheAwesomeOne]

Yet sm Hashirama can probably use twice as many wood clones, he could probably have like 5 wood dragons and etc. He will undoubtedly outlast madara, and re read the part that says he not Edo but has his Edo abilities.

I highly doubt Hashirama can use 5 Wood Dragons. I may not have proof but it would be highly unlikely. Also, I understand Madara isn't an Edo but this one still goes to him, I would say.

 

[Omnipotent]

There's no documentation in the Manga or Databook of him doing so, thats my proof. There is great fallacy in the argument your unable to sustain, save fantasies.

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Do note that I support you completely, but the absence of evidence =/= the evidence of absence.

 

[TheAwesomeOne]

.. But Hashirama is..... protrayed stronger.... And saying "Mokuton cancels out the Mokuton".. is just weird....

Madara's true power = Perfect Susano'o

Hashirama's strongest jutsu = 1000 hands

As far as their strongest goes.. Hashirama is superior.. And also Hashirama is superior in Base Form (atleast he portrayed superior) also:

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Saying Moukuton cancels out Moukuton isn't weird, it's true. That leaves Madara with Rinnegan, Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, and Susano'o while Hashirama only has Sage Mode. In normal cases of Sage Mode (TSM & DSM), the normal justu are boosted, so I would assume that Hashirama's SM boosts his justu.

Therefore:
Rinnegan, Moukuton, Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, & Susano'o (Madara) vs. Moukuton, Sage Mode, and Boosted Justu (Hashirama) which means Madara wins.

Also, Madara's strongest justu is Perfect Susano'o. However, the Susano'o we saw when they battled, was not Perfect Susano'o. The chakra was not stabilized.

I don't understand how that picture says he's superior to Madara. That picture only states that he is superior to the previous Kage.

 

[SilverSlick]

Madara is able to to make 25 mokuton clones, all wielding the rinnegan and EMS not to mention respective abilities for each doujutsu but also the ability to act co-ordinately without madara's actual presence. Based on Mokuton's composition Pretapath will render it useless on contact and this goes for each clone. Madara has already stated that his EMS is able to see throuhgh hashirama's mokuton bunshin and also has the abilitiy to anticipate attacks.

Given that he has his edo abilities, he is able to use all the jutsu he copied from hashirama and possibly to the extents of shinshuusenju as Senjutsu acts an amplifier for the technique, and Mokuton itself absorbs Nautral energy. Added to this, the rinnegan is a greater potential threat in comparison with the kyuubi, which hashirama himself stated was overwhelming. At the end of the day, EMS renders Bringer of darkness useless and Hashirama has no arsenal to counter Madara and his mokuton//rinnegan wielding bunshins. Hashirama canonically bested EMS Madara in his prime at high difficulties. His Edo-tensei form however is far beyond what he was capable of at vote; Madara would take this quite comfortably as he canonically has full knowledge of what hashirama is capable of.

Solo'd lol.

 

[TheSages456]

its stated in the manga that hashirama>madara. the thread ends right there.

madaras full power is still perfect susano as stated himself & by feats. hashirama beat a PS/kyuubi fusion which would obviously put him above madaras full power which is greater than madara weaker techs(meteor, mokuton).

 

[Waltz]

its stated in the manga that hashirama>madara. the thread ends right there.

madaras full power is still perfect susano as stated himself & by feats. hashirama beat a PS/kyuubi fusion which would obviously put him above madaras full power which is greater than madara weaker techs(meteor, mokuton).

All i see here is a great mis-understanding of statements. The actual [

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]. Uchiha madara, based on his lifetime accomplishments in his Prime and possessed feats before death; Perfect susano'o is his full power hence the statement but in this case the topic is Edo madara. Power in the very definition of the word is the ability to do something. Perfect susano'o is Madara's full power, not in the case of his edo state however as he is able to do much more and to add that it has been canonically stated that his state is beyond his prime when he possessed his full power, perfect susano'o. Any attuned debater knows that character matchups aren't founded on hype when actual feats are available, which nullifies your argument.

 

[TheSages456]

All i see here is a great mis-understanding of statements. The actual [

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]. Uchiha madara, based on his lifetime accomplishments in his Prime and possessed feats before death; Perfect susano'o is his full power hence the statement but in this case the topic is Edo madara. Power in the very definition of the word is the ability to do something. Perfect susano'o is Madara's full power, not in the case of his edo state however as he is able to do much more and to add that it has been canonically stated that his state is beyond his prime when he possessed his full power, perfect susano'o. Any attuned debater knows that character matchups aren't founded on hype when actual feats are available, which nullifies your argument.

edo madara is madara. he isnt a different person. madara uchiha said that PS is his full power so it is. you are the only one going against feats.

 

[Waltz]

edo madara is madara. he isnt a different person. madara uchiha said that PS is his full power so it is. you are the only one going against feats.

Was never mentioned that they are different individuals and that in and of itself is against the point. Edo madara is a rigged, more powerful version of Madara hence making them both two different forms of the same thing, one superior to the other in terms of power. When you examine the

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of power itself, you will realize that based on arsenal, Edo-Madara's full power reigns superior and even given the statement, he had his full power in his prime, while alive when he faced hashirama. According to

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however, his edo state surpasses that, which is rather obvious as he now has Mokuton and the Rinnegan.