Konoha really is terrible

[staticdash22]

Earlier today, I thought about something. I use to think sasuke was bat shit crazy, but little by little as the story started to unfold, I got the whole picture. Think about the uchiha massacre for a second. There were children and women that were executed and Hiruzen confirmed that they ordered itachi to sacrifice the clan for the village. I mean, there probably were some people like shisui and itachi. Maybe some old uchiha who were just sick of the cursed things and just wanted to enjoy the rest of their lives. Some mothers that didn't really care. I'm pretty sure some people in the uchiha were left in the dark for fear of what they might tell. My point, is that I hear people say "oh sasuke wants to kill people in the leaf who have no knowledge of what went on, he's insane". But weren't there children killed without knowledge of what their parents were going to do? Or other uchiha's that did not want anything to do with the coup, but were killed by itachi because they were uchihas? That's why it's justified in sasuke's mind, and now I see why he feels that way. The Elders were pretty ****ed up ordering the execution of everybody, even children. So, people need to understand sasuke's train of though a little more.

Thanks for reading guys.

 

[Cartera]

Earlier today, I thought about something. I use to think sasuke was bat shit crazy, but little by little as the story started to unfold, I got the whole picture. Think about the uchiha massacre for a second. There were children and women that were executed and Hiruzen confirmed that they ordered itachi to sacrifice the clan for the village. I mean, there probably were some people like shisui and itachi. Maybe some old uchiha who were just sick of the cursed things and just wanted to enjoy the rest of their lives. Some mothers that didn't really care. I'm pretty sure some people in the uchiha were left in the dark for fear of what they might tell. My point, is that I hear people say "oh sasuke wants to kill people in the leaf who have no knowledge of what went on, he's insane". But weren't there children killed without knowledge of what their parents were going to do? Or other uchiha's that did not want anything to do with the coup, but were killed by itachi because they were uchihas? That's why it's justified in sasuke's mind, and now I see why he feels that way. The Elders were pretty ****ed up ordering the execution of everybody, even children. So, people need to understand sasuke's train of though a little more.

Thanks for reading guys.

i agree, but almost all the five nations have done something similar

 

[Altaneen]

That doesn't make the Leaf "terrible" it was just a few on the top that made the call. I don't even think of the ones in charge as "terrible" they did what they had to do. We know how their Uchiha brains work now, any friendly Uchiha that would have been spared would end up a rage filled revenge machine like Sasuke.

 

[Yuffosan]

Uchihas are like spartans. The moment they're born, they're trained to kill ^_^

 

[staticdash22]

That doesn't make the Leaf "terrible" it was just a few on the top that made the call. I don't even think of the ones in charge as "terrible" they did what they had to do. We know how their Uchiha brains work now, any friendly Uchiha that would have been spared would end up a rage filled revenge machine like Sasuke.

That doesn't justify the killing of kids. Point stands.

 

[NYCKID]

The Hidden Mist village does it all the time. Just ask Zabuza, oh wait....

 

[staticdash22]

i agree, but almost all the five nations have done something similar

Yes but we are focusing on konoha, not the other five nations. What the other four did doesnt not justify the actions of the other. That's like saying someone else killed before, so ok that I did because other people have done it?

 

[Ganta]

Well isnt that why the massacre was such a big deal, because plenty of innocnet lives were lost

 

[freaks99]

no! sasuke just stupid, emo gay ! killing clan=save village and peace

 

[GuardianoftheNakano]

Agreed. Konoha shuns those unnecessary and exploits their strong. The same with Naruto. When they found out he could protect them, he's suddenly the hero of Konoha. But until that point he was considered and regarded as a monster for something beyond his control.

 

[Jin Hayami]

Take out the adults the children will seek revenge. Should have killed Sasuke.

 

[Altaneen]

That doesn't justify the killing of kids. Point stands.

I disagree, so does Itachi, point stands.

The leaders of Konoha have one job, to protect Konoha, stopping the people who want to endanger that, just so their kids will try again in 10~ years (and they knew they would because their emotional Uchiha brains) is a very poor strategy of fulfilling said one job.

If anyone should be looked upon as responsible for the Uchiha children's deaths, it is their foolish parents.

 

[staticdash22]

Agreed. Konoha shuns those unnecessary and exploits their strong. The same with Naruto. When they found out he could protect them, he's suddenly the hero of Konoha. But until that point he was considered and regarded as a monster for something beyond his control.

Exactly. The Leaf really is no different from the other four. The are still flled with inconsistencies and darkness just like itachi said.

 

[Shadetree]

That doesn't make the Leaf "terrible" it was just a few on the top that made the call. I don't even think of the ones in charge as "terrible" they did what they had to do. We know how their Uchiha brains work now, any friendly Uchiha that would have been spared would end up a rage filled revenge machine like Sasuke.

Just because Sasuke has gone all rage revenge mode dose not mean all of them would have. Your basing a whole clan off of one member of the clan.

 

[staticdash22]

I disagree, so does Itachi, point stands.

You really have a messed up mind then. Nothing justifies the killing of innocent kids period. Not in real life or in a story. Itachi did what he had to do for the sake of the village. That only makes his actions understandable, not justified.

 

[staticdash22]

Just because Sasuke has gone all rage revenge mode dose not mean all of them would have. Your basing a whole clan off of one member of the clan.

Shisui sure wasn't like the rest. Early obito showed no signs of being like madara. He was turned but his early path indicated that he was going to grow up being like hashirama and naruto. Itachi sure wasn't like the rest. I don't know anything about kagami, so we might wait and see.

 

[Floydical]

Hmm that's a good point but its not really clear how many innocents (ie children and eldery) there actually were in the Uchiha clan. The Uchiha clan was clearly very small and I doubt there were many other kids his age. The 2 Sasuke called uncle and auntee were the oldest Uchiha we ever saw and they were not more than 60 or 65.

The point I'm making is that there were very few elderly and children in the Uchiha clan from what we can tell.

 

[ItachiStyle]

Earlier today, I thought about something. I use to think sasuke was bat shit crazy, but little by little as the story started to unfold, I got the whole picture. Think about the uchiha massacre for a second. There were children and women that were executed and Hiruzen confirmed that they ordered itachi to sacrifice the clan for the village.

1) As people have pointed out, this makes them no more or less cut throat than the other villages. This is kill or be killed, they use child soldiers, etc, every clan seems to be equally culpable in this regard (the Uchiha killed children- see Hashirama's brother).
2) How many would have died in a coup by the Uchiha? Probably many innocents would have died including "women" and "children" (who btw, in Narutoverse are almost always trained killers as well).
This is also consistent with alot of history. If you're going to kill all the adults, does it make sense to leave the children alone so they can grow up wanting revenge? In most wars the problem would be solved by having alot of them sold off into slavery, but all the heirs and important kids would have been killed or imprisoned forever to prevent a resistence forming around them. Why would that have been sensible? It would have been a recipe for further violence to kill the adults, but leave their kids to grow up hating Konoha. The fact Sasuke was left alive required a fake backstory and scapegoat so he wouldn't hate the village.

I mean, there probably were some people like shisui and itachi.

The impression I get is Itachi and Shi Sui were basically out on their own, with no support from the others in the clan, and that a coup was happening, period. Nobody else volunteered to turn on the clan and spy on them, it seems like everyone was behind this.

Even Itachi's father seems complacent when he realises Itachi has turned on them, and understands it was either "them or us". I posted elsewhere, that the Uchiha seem to have brought this on themselves, because they seem to have been treated quite well, and have no justification for a coup.

I posted this in a thread about the 9 Tails attack, and it's still just as relevant now:

For all we know they were in on it, and planned to take over after the village leadership was killed.

There is room to argue about the Uchiha being treated a little harshly, but at the end of the day everyone in the village respected (or at least feared) the genius of their clan, and they got the protection and peace from the village being created. What did they lose? They had to live in a "ghetto" (a very nice looking one, really just a different district of the village), and the village was a bit suss about letting one of them become Hokage. They got to act as the police force though, and clearly many Uchiha had chances to excel in the village. Remember when Sasuke is taken to the academy by his father? Nobody treats him as an outsider, everyone loves the guy... "he's so amazing!", etc. Sasuke was the popular kid. He receives no discrimination, he gets top grades, and the villagers by and large love him (even if a few of the adults are very concerned about the clan). The teacher has nothing but praise for Itachi, and both the objective Uchiha's (Itachi and Shi Sui) seem to have decided their clan was sacrificing the village's interests for petty reasons.

To add to this:
- The village elders (non-Uchiha ones) had good cause to be worried about the Uchiha apparently, as many of them went crazy, of whom Madara was but one. We hear the same not only from Tobirama, but Itachi, who among other things explains the origin of Izanami (to stop Uchiha who became power mad with Izanagi).
- We don't know that any Uchiha were overlooked as Hokage either. It seems like Hashi was legitimately more powerful (as well as more popular) with the villagers. No Uchiha we know of during Tobirama's reign stand out as stronger as far as we know, and the same holds true of Hiruzen (mainly because we know so little about him). There were other ninja who stand out as great Hokage candidates, like the Sannin and Minato. For all we know Itachi and Shi sui would have been chosen as Hokage's if they had stayed, so maybe if the Uchiha had been patient they'd have gotten what they wanted anyway. Minato even takes an Uchiha into his team, to mentor him, and as we all know the students of a Hokage often end up being Hokage themselves, so I still fail to see the justification for a coup. Their complaints amount to "we never got a Hokage" (out of what, 3 goes at the time?), and "we had to live in a somewhat isolated district". Doesn't the majority count at all? Clearly the majority were very happy with the 5 Hokage chosen.

Kushina was friends with Sasuke's mother too, and how is a coup a solution to political problems? The Uchiha clan was what, maybe a hundred people or so? The village is made up of thousands, if you feel you're unrepresented on council you can try and change that peacefully, without needing a coup (which in reality is you imposing your minorities views on the peaceful majority, who support teh current government). Want to change the government? Push for Itachi or Shi Sui to be the next Hokage. Overthrowing the current government (which almost certainly will cause a world war) is not the sensible response.

 

[ballerjordan]

Blame it on Danzo. Never liked that guy

 

[xCrystalChidorix]

I agree with you. I've always understood where Sasuke was coming from, and supported his reaons (not his actions, his reasons).
But I have to say that the leaders of Konoha did what they had to do, otherwise it would've turned into an even bigger mess.
It's just the way of the ninja world as it is now. Again, it all comes down to peace, which at this point is clearly the overall theme of Naruto.

If Naruto can find a way to bring everyone to an understanding of everyone else, then nothing like this ever has to happen, because then true peace has been achieved.
But until that day comes.....sacrifices like this might be necessary. Completely unethical and morally questionable...but necessary.

Of course, if I was Sasuke, I really wouldn't care about any of that and I'd destroy the village anyway.