izuna died before the formation of the leaf as madara gained ems then the formation of leaf happened and madara was annoyed as his brothers sacrifice was for nothing and a lone blind uchiha can not take out the entire senju
izuna died before the formation of the leaf as madara gained ems then the formation of leaf happened and madara was annoyed as his brothers sacrifice was for nothing and a lone blind uchiha can not take out the entire senju
Now Izuna was alive during the formation of Konoha.... See this image first....
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It is the fight of the Valley of the end and Madara has EMS....
Madara tells Hashirama that he's different from the last timethey fought as foes in a life and death battle....
And the last time would surely be before the formation of Konoha.... He said he's different because he had EMS during Valley of the end fight which means Izuna was alive during Konoha's formation....
I do not believe that Izuna was alive during the formation of Konoha. The reason Madara was said to be against the truce in the first place is because his brother sacrificed both his eyes and his life for the sake of defeating the Senju.
When Madara claimed that he was stronger than the last time they fought, he could have meant many things. He now has the power to create a perfect susanoo, he now has the power to control a tailed beast as well, he now has the power to simply beat Hashirama.
When Madara claimed that he was stronger than the last time they fought, he could have meant many things. He now has the power to create a perfect susanoo, he now has the power to simply beat Hashirama.
The EMS gave him those powers.... Belive it..... I feel Kishi is giving us indirect hints from last four Chapters that Izuna was evil ..... That's why if you see.... even in my Theory you'll find I'v used all recent Chapters Manga Pages.... Cause there is some connection between no Senjus in Konoha and the death of Izuna.... Afterall it was Senju - Uchiha Alliance that resulted in Konoha Formation..... So where are the Senjus..??
We know the Uchiha were killed by Itachi.... But wat about the Senjus..??
i like it. youve clearly worked hard to build this thread.
maybe this is why tobirama hates the uchiha with such passion?
( he followed hashi, then maybe izuna did do this and thats why tobirama hates the uchiha with such passion. he was right from the start and thats why he doesnt agree with hashis peaceful views)
OR
Tobirama is the opposite to everyone in the sense that :
naruto is after sasuke, sasuke hurts naruto. naruto goes after sasuke.
maybe it was the same for hashi and tobi? tobi could see that hashi was getting hurt but didnt understand the whole 'friendship' business.
Here is what I think about the whole thing... I believe Izuna definitely did something to get killed by Hashirama or that Hashi was responsible for his death. If Izuna really did slaughter the Senju, he has to have a very valid reason... Rest of the theory totally makes sense...
Also, Tobirama mentions Madara many times, hates him with great passion... He hasn't mentioned Izuna at all. Slaughtering of his clan would definitely make him more sensitive towards Izuna... BUT it could also mean he doesn't want to talk about it...
Sorry bro. You made Izuna, the villain, instead of Madara. First of all, Izuna was loved and was dear to his elder brother Madara. His brother made a truce with the Senjuus for the sake of peace. Then why would he interfere in the matter which he too wanted. i.e peace.
If Izuna had ordered to kill all the Senjuus then why Tobirama killed Izuna only(as per your theory) and why not the other Uchihas including Madara. We know that Tobirama is strict about the rules. So he can consider one of the basic rule, "An eye for an eye" Then why he spared the remaining Uchihas.
Why didn't Madara interfered in Izuna's plan? How Izuna went against his brother's will?
Also Hashirama himself said here :
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Hashirama : It's an insult to our brothers and comrades.
Madara : How dare you...
This says that even Izuna played a big role for the alliance. Then why he would have any grudge against the Senjus?
The main reason for Izuna's death could be none other than Hashirama himself otherwise, Madara could have killed the responsible person too early instead of fighting Hashirama all the time. There has to be Hashirama's connection in Izuna's death.
Izuna was alive during the truce. Then as I said, Hashirama could be the reason for Izuna's death and that is why, Madara left the village even after explaining Izuna's death and not getting any support from the Uchiha clan itself.
After Izuna's death, Madara went blind and took Izuna's eyes in the hope he could take the revenge against Hashirama. Here's the proof
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In this page, Madara clearly tells about the time he got the eyes of Izuna.
Tsunade was blabbering about Konoha's Will of Fire. And Madara says "Anything that could be passed down to you is Hatred." This says that Konoha existed before Izuna's death and the village must suffer the hatred of Madara's loss.
Sorry bro. You made Izuna, the villain, instead of Madara. First of all, Izuna was loved and was dear to his elder brother Madara. His brother made a truce with the Senjuus for the sake of peace. Then why would he interfere in the matter which he too wanted. i.e peace.
If Izuna had ordered to kill all the Senjuus then why Tobirama killed Izuna only(as per your theory) and why not the other Uchihas including Madara. We know that Tobirama is strict about the rules. So he can consider one of the basic rule, "An eye for an eye" Then why he spared the remaining Uchihas.
Why didn't Madara interfered in Izuna's plan? How Izuna went against his brother's will?
Also Hashirama himself said here :
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Hashirama : It's an insult to our brothers and comrades.
Madara : How dare you...
This says that even Izuna played a big role for the alliance. Then why he would have any grudge against the Senjus?
The main reason for Izuna's death could be none other than Hashirama himself otherwise, Madara could have killed the responsible person too early instead of fighting Hashirama all the time. There has to be Hashirama's connection in Izuna's death.
Izuna was alive during the truce. Then as I said, Hashirama could be the reason for Izuna's death and that is why, Madara left the village even after explaining Izuna's death and not getting any support from the Uchiha clan itself.
After Izuna's death, Madara went blind and took Izuna's eyes in the hope he could take the revenge against Hashirama. Here's the proof
You must be registered for see images
In this page, Madara clearly tells about the time he got the eyes of Izuna.
Tsunade was blabbering about Konoha's Will of Fire. And Madara says "Anything that could be passed down to you is Hatred." This says that Konoha existed before Izuna's death and the village must suffer the hatred of Madara's loss.
But none of the manga pages you have put show that Izuna wasn't evil or that he wanted peace.... Madara is just saying that his brother left him his eyes in the Manga Page you've put.... That's it.... I searched all over the Manga to find the slightest hint of whether Izuna was good or he was evil.... But there isn't any.... And in the few recent chapters Kishi is giving us indirect hints that Izuna has got to do something between Hashirama and Madara's rift.... Moreover there's no Senju alive or even mentioned by Kishi in the entire series apart frm Hashi and Tobirama (Tsunade and Nawaki are half Senju).... There is a connection between Izuna and no alive Senju in Konoha....
But none of the manga pages you have put show that Izuna wasn't evil or that he wanted peace.... Madara is just saying that his brother left him his eyes in the Manga Page you've put.... That's it.... I searched all over the Manga to find the slightest hint of whether Izuna was good or he was evil.... But there isn't any.... And in the few recent chapters Kishi is giving us indirect hints that Izuna has got to do something between Hashirama and Madara's rift.... Moreover there's no Senju alive or even mentioned by Kishi in the entire series apart frm Hashi and Tobirama (Tsunade and Nawaki are half Senju).... There is a connection between Izuna and no alive Senju in Konoha....
Hashirama said that its an insult to their brothers and comrades what they built up until their main battle. That means there was Izuna's contribution in foundation of Konoha as well as Tobirama's. Without Izuna's support, Madara won't go ahead making his own decisions since he was his beloved brother and the leader of Uchihas. Also there's nowhere mentioned in the manga that Izuna was evil. Why do you think its Izuna killing all the Senjus? It can be Madara who annihilated the Senjus after Izuna's loss. Tobirama even after getting Edo-ed he still thinks Madara responsible and a threat to the ninja world.
Remember how he reacted when Sasuke talked about whether he destroy Konoha or not. This also tells that Madara also once attacked the village along with his followers to get his revenge for Izuna(obviously in the absence of Hashirama, Tobirama and might be Mito). And the Senju villagers defended the village against Madara's troupe since they belong to the powerful clan of the shinobi world and sacrificed their lives for the village. Not every Senju is powerful as Hashirama and Tobirama. We have seen in 622 how Senjus were killed by the Uchihas.
Hashirama said that its an insult to their brothers and comrades what they built up until their main battle. That means there was Izuna's contribution in foundation of Konoha as well as Tobirama's. Without Izuna's support, Madara won't go ahead making his own decisions since he was his beloved brother and the leader of Uchihas. Also there's nowhere mentioned in the manga that Izuna was evil. Why do you think its Izuna killing all the Senjus? It can be Madara who annihilated the Senjus after Izuna's loss. Tobirama even after getting Edo-ed he still thinks Madara responsible and a threat to the ninja world.
Remember how he reacted when Sasuke talked about whether he destroy Konoha or not. This also tells that Madara also once attacked the village along with his followers to get his revenge for Izuna(obviously in the absence of Hashirama, Tobirama and might be Mito). And the Senju villagers defended the village against Madara's troupe since they belong to the powerful clan of the shinobi world and sacrificed their lives for the village. Not every Senju is powerful as Hashirama and Tobirama. We have seen in 622 how Senjus were killed by the Uchihas.
Bro.... I had given a thought to that possibility too before making up the theory.... But no.... When you see the manga page where Tobirama says Madara couldn't be reasoned with.... Hashi speaks about how Madara loved Izuna more than Itachi loved Sasuke.... It's kind of weird to see Hashi saying that just when Tobirama said Madara couldn't be reasoned with.... U said about the manga page where Madara gets angry with Hashirama for talking about comrades.... But Madara and Izuna fought for the Uchiha all their lives but The Uchiha didnt support him latr against Hashi.... When Izuna died at the hands of Hashi or Tobirama.... Thats why he got angry.... Cause when his bro who was his world to him got killed for doing sumthing wrong.... Madara wouldn't listen and then the people for whom he and his bro fought didn't support him against the killers.... Madara's blind love for his bro made him go unreasoble and deeply consumed in hatred....
Great thread alot of great points issued by everyone but there has to be more to it then this..Maybe just maybe Izuna died in a mission to protect the village and Madara feels his brother died needlessly in battle.I still believe Madara gained his eyes from Izuna likely shortly before he died. Possibly Izuna asked his brother to protect the village and it's people that his death was for the will of both Senju and Uchiha..Again as stated when any Uchiha has a strong lose their hatred grows more then likely his brother's death pushed him over the edge and he's taking his hate and pain on possibly the closest person to a brother he has Hashirama. Taking his hate to the village and everyone that went against him. This is my theroy
