[Debate]: Izuna Kakashi Senju VS Dkdankong

[Curse Mark]

Beginning of Part 2 Sasuke VS Sound 4​

Starting distance 200 Meters.

Judges: Starrke, Penguin2640, & Kages

This is probably going to be edited later.

 

[Curse Mark]

Will just one judge be enough or would you rather wait for another?

 

[Penguin]

I will judge. If you need me too. I am not biast unless Tobirama is involved

 

[Kages]

I will judge

 

[Curse Mark]

All right, you both can be Judges. And Izuna can comment and say if he has anything to change or add to OP.

 

[Penguin]

When will he start debateing?

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Ok let's begin Sasuke had improved alot since his last encounter with the Sound 4 and at this point of time had perfect control over his Curse Mark and can activate his Curse Mark much quicker without any side effects, he had also gotten way faster as seen when he blitzed Naruto

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and when he blitzed Obito

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, as none of the sound 4 are fast and don't have very impressive reactions Sasuke would easily be able to Blitz Jirobo who is the slowest of the four with a databook rating in speed 2 so he won't be able to see Sasuke Blitz him and finish him with a slash of his sword.
Also once close Sasuke can easily put one of them in a genjutsu as seen here as he does to Sai whose eyes weren't even open but he was trapped in a traumatic genjutsu.

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Once caught in the genjutsu he can easily finish one of them with a chidori katana. If Sasuke decides to go Curse Mark stage 2, he would go airbourne and fire Katons from the sky and as one of the sound four try to evade he can swoop down and use a Chidori sharp spear to impale them or slice them. Sasuke can also trap one of them in his Demonic Illusion:Shackling Stakes Technique to paralyse them the same jutsu Itachi done to Oro and what Sasuke done too escape Oro's ritual, then Chidori them while they try to recover from the genjutsu.

Counters

Sasuke can counter Kidomaru's webs with Chidori Senbon or Chidori Nagashi to get them out of the way then impale him with a Chidori sharp spear to the chest then slash him to finish him off. Sasuke can stop Tayuya from using her flute by using his wired shurikens to keep her tied up then fire a Katon: Ryūka no Jutsu to burn Tayuya to pieces. Sasuke has the elemental advantage over Jirobo and if Jirobo tries to use a Doton; Sasuke can easily destroy it with his Raiton or evade it via taking to the air and attacking with a Fire Stylehoneix Flower Jutsu, also Sasuke can break out of the earth prison with a Chidori Nagashi then hit Jirobo with a Chidori. Sasuke at the end of part 1 in his previous encounter was giving the sound 4 trouble in Taijutsu, and after his training with Orochimaru he had become a master swordsman and with his speed and reflexes he would be able to outdo the four if they try to rush him at once espically if he streams his Raiton chakra into his katana and his stabs and slashes connect would be the end of the four. Sasuke can also use his skills in Shurikenjutsu and do Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation to catch the four off guard by firing a flurry of shurikens in quick succession.

 

[Curse Mark]

Ok let's begin Sasuke had improved alot since his last encounter with the Sound 4 and at this point of time had perfect control over his Curse Mark and can activate his Curse Mark much quicker without any side effects, he had also gotten way faster as seen when he blitzed Naruto

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and when he blitzed Obito

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, as none of the sound 4 are fast and don't have very impressive reactions Sasuke would easily be able to Blitz Jirobo who is the slowest of the four with a databook rating in speed 2 so he won't be able to see Sasuke Blitz him and finish him with a slash of his sword.

Also once close Sasuke can easily put one of them in a genjutsu as seen here as he does to Sai whose eyes weren't even open but he was trapped in a traumatic genjutsu.

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20%20Sai%20and%20Sasuke!!%20/ch301_UK_Page_06-07.png
Once caught in the genjutsu he can easily finish one of them with a chidori katana. If Sasuke decides to go Curse Mark stage 2, he would go airbourne and fire Katons from the sky and as one of the sound four try to evade he can swoop down and use a Chidori sharp spear to impale them or slice them. Sasuke can also trap one of them in his Demonic Illusion:Shackling Stakes Technique to paralyse them the same jutsu Itachi done to Oro and what Sasuke done too escape Oro's ritual, then Chidori them while they try to recover from the genjutsu.

Counters

Sasuke can counter Kidomaru's webs with Chidori Senbon or Chidori Nagashi to get them out of the way then impale him with a Chidori sharp spear to the chest then slash him to finish him off. Sasuke can stop Tayuya from using her flute by using his wired shurikens to keep her tied up then fire a Katon: Ryūka no Jutsu to burn Tayuya to pieces. Sasuke has the elemental advantage over Jirobo and if Jirobo tries to use a Doton; Sasuke can easily destroy it with his Raiton or evade it via taking to the air and attacking with a Fire Stylehoneix Flower Jutsu, also Sasuke can break out of the earth prison with a Chidori Nagashi then hit Jirobo with a Chidori. Sasuke at the end of part 1 in his previous encounter was giving the sound 4 trouble in Taijutsu, and after his training with Orochimaru he had become a master swordsman and with his speed and reflexes he would be able to outdo the four if they try to rush him at once espically if he streams his Raiton chakra into his katana and his stabs and slashes connect would be the end of the four. Sasuke can also use his skills in Shurikenjutsu and do Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation to catch the four off guard by firing a flurry of shurikens in quick succession.

Your third link didn't work, and can you provide a scan of Sasuke using that genjutsu, please?
Tayuya, Sakon/Ukon/, Jirobo, & Kidomaru make up a great team. Starting at 200 meters, it's a distance much too far for Sasuke to blitz. By the time Sasuke reaches the area, the sound four have already fallen into formation. Kidomaru and Tayuya fall back onto tree branches, while Sakon/Ukon & Jirobo take the front lines. If Sasuke approaches, Tayuya begins to summon her Doki, and have them stand in between the front and back lines. As Sasuke approaches, Jirobo can use Earth Release: Earth Shaking Palm, sending Sasuke off balance, and making him pause enough that they have time to all enter CM1. While Jirobo is holding off Sasuke, Tayuya's Doki can then surround Sasuke. One behind him, and one to his left and right. As this happens, Kidomaru can go from CM1 to CM2 use his bow and arrow to attack with Spider War Bow: Terrible Split. If this hits Sasuke, it's basically a one hit KO. If it doesn't hit Sasuke, the three Doki and Jirobo have him cornered anyways.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Your third link didn't work, and can you provide a scan of Sasuke using that genjutsu, please?
Tayuya, Sakon/Ukon/, Jirobo, & Kidomaru make up a great team. Starting at 200 meters, it's a distance much too far for Sasuke to blitz. By the time Sasuke reaches the area, the sound four have already fallen into formation. Kidomaru and Tayuya fall back onto tree branches, while Sakon/Ukon & Jirobo take the front lines. If Sasuke approaches, Tayuya begins to summon her Doki, and have them stand in between the front and back lines. As Sasuke approaches, Jirobo can use Earth Release: Earth Shaking Palm, sending Sasuke off balance, and making him pause enough that they have time to all enter CM1. While Jirobo is holding off Sasuke, Tayuya's Doki can then surround Sasuke. One behind him, and one to his left and right. As this happens, Kidomaru can go from CM1 to CM2 use his bow and arrow to attack with Spider War Bow: Terrible Split. If this hits Sasuke, it's basically a one hit KO. If it doesn't hit Sasuke, the three Doki and Jirobo have him cornered anyways.

Sasuke's genjutsu which rendered a top tier shinobi like Oro useless

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and if Sasuke catches any of the Sound four in this or any of his other sharingan based genjutsu it could be over for them as soon as they look into his eyes. Plus if they try to surround him they would get hit by a Chidori Nagashi, then this would give him time to use his speed to quickly Blitz one of them as soon as they try to recover with a chidori to the heart. Also Sasuke can counter the Earth Release: Earth Shaking Palm by quickly activating his CM and taking to the air and firing Katons from the sky. And as the Curse Mark enhances Sasuke's attacks he can use Chidori Sharp Spear in close combat as a blade like what he done against Orochimaru and use it for close range combat to slice any of the sound 4 if they get to close to him. If any of the four try too approach Sasuke to begin the formation Sasuke could Blitz them and fire a Katon to make them scatter, once they try to dodge is when he can move in for the kill and hit them with a Chidori.

 

[Curse Mark]

Sasuke's genjutsu which rendered a top tier shinobi like Oro useless

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and if Sasuke catches any of the Sound four in this or any of his other sharingan based genjutsu it could be over for them as soon as they look into his eyes. Plus if they try to surround him they would get hit by a Chidori Nagashi, then this would give him time to use his speed to quickly Blitz one of them as soon as they try to recover with a chidori to the heart. Also Sasuke can counter the Earth Release: Earth Shaking Palm by quickly activating his CM and taking to the air and firing Katons from the sky. And as the Curse Mark enhances Sasuke's attacks he can use Chidori Sharp Spear in close combat as a blade like what he done against Orochimaru and use it for close range combat to slice any of the sound 4 if they get to close to him. If any of the four try too approach Sasuke to begin the formation Sasuke could Blitz them and fire a Katon to make them scatter, once they try to dodge is when he can move in for the kill and hit them with a Chidori. P.S. I will edit this and reply tomorrow as I am going too my friends house and won't be back until tomorrow afternoon.

You can't edit an argument after it's been posted and responded to, just so you know.
If Sasuke takes to the sky after being attacked by Jirobo, Kidomaru still snipes him in the chest with the arrow. It tears through CM2 Sasuke, especially with a spiral tip. It just literally destroys his torso if he gets hit there. Or his limbs get torn off. Doki don't seem to be bothered by pain, as they have taken several kunai without even flinching. They've shown great strength and also, if Tayuya wants, she just has them fall back and use Revolt of the Demon World. These catch Sasuke easily, even in the air. He has no counter to them. Also, Jirobo can use Earth Release: Earth Shore Return under him and Sakon/Ukon, sending them flying towards Sasuke. As they fly through the air, Sakon and ukon can use Multiple Connected Feet, which triples the amount of damage of his normal kick, and Jirobo can use Arhat Fist. Since Jirobo would be CM1, his Arhat fist would be more than enough to punch straight through Sasuke.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

You can't edit an argument after it's been posted and responded to, just so you know.
If Sasuke takes to the sky after being attacked by Jirobo, Kidomaru still snipes him in the chest with the arrow. It tears through CM2 Sasuke, especially with a spiral tip. It just literally destroys his torso if he gets hit there. Or his limbs get torn off. Doki don't seem to be bothered by pain, as they have taken several kunai without even flinching. They've shown great strength and also, if Tayuya wants, she just has them fall back and use Revolt of the Demon World. These catch Sasuke easily, even in the air. He has no counter to them. Also, Jirobo can use Earth Release: Earth Shore Return under him and Sakon/Ukon, sending them flying towards Sasuke. As they fly through the air, Sakon and ukon can use Multiple Connected Feet, which triples the amount of damage of his normal kick, and Jirobo can use Arhat Fist. Since Jirobo would be CM1, his Arhat fist would be more than enough to punch straight through Sasuke.

Sasuke has the speed advantage here as the four would have difficulty catching him and he can use his Shushin no jutsu to kill one of them without even seeing him as the sound four's reaction time isnt really great

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and

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. He also can throw his chidori senbons as a distraction and then target one of the four as they try to evade and slash them with his blade. His genjutsu can be very useful against the four as they don't know about his genjutsu, which is very dangerous as he was able to trap a top tier shinobi such as Orochimaru in his genjutsu and the four haven't shown to counter genjutsu and aren't aware of the power of the Sharingan genjutsu's and while they are stuck in the genjutsu Sasuke uses his body flicker jutsu then cuts them apart. If Sasuke fires enough powerful Katon's and makes the temperature hot enough he will be able to use Kirin which would oneshot the four as they can't dodge it and have nothing powerful enough to defend themselves from it. Sasuke can stop the four's formation by using distractions such as shurikens or Chidori Senbon's then whilst they are about to dodge hit them with a Chidori. Sasuke can counter Kidomaru's webs with his Chidori senbons or his blade to quickly cut the webs or Chidori Nagashi the webs away, plus if the four get too close Sasuke can use Chidori Nagashi to knock them away then slice them apart with his Chidori Sharp Spear. Also Sasuke can stream his Raiton chakra through his blade for a more devasting impact in his stabs and slashes in close combat against the four.

 

[Icelerate]

Nice debate, I'll go with Sasuke high difficulty.

 

[Curse Mark]

Sasuke has the speed advantage here as the four would have difficulty catching him and he can use his Shushin no jutsu to kill one of them without even seeing him as the sound four's reaction time isnt really great

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and

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. He also can throw his chidori senbons as a distraction and then target one of the four as they try to evade and slash them with his blade. His genjutsu can be very useful against the four as they don't know about his genjutsu, which is very dangerous as he was able to trap a top tier shinobi such as Orochimaru in his genjutsu and the four haven't shown to counter genjutsu and aren't aware of the power of the Sharingan genjutsu's and while they are stuck in the genjutsu Sasuke uses his body flicker jutsu then cuts them apart. If Sasuke fires enough powerful Katon's and makes the temperature hot enough he will be able to use Kirin which would oneshot the four as they can't dodge it and have nothing powerful enough to defend themselves from it. Sasuke can stop the four's formation by using distractions such as shurikens or Chidori Senbon's then whilst they are about to dodge hit them with a Chidori. Sasuke can counter Kidomaru's webs with his Chidori senbons or his blade to quickly cut the webs or Chidori Nagashi the webs away, plus if the four get too close Sasuke can use Chidori Nagashi to knock them away then slice them apart with his Chidori Sharp Spear. Also Sasuke can stream his Raiton chakra through his blade for a more devasting impact in his stabs and slashes in close combat against the four.

Sakon: 3.5
Ukon: 3.0
Jirobo: 2
Kidomaru: 3.0
Tayuya: 3.0
Sasuke:3.5

Sasuke isn't exactly outspeeding them. Where do you get the idea they have poor reaction time???
The chidori senbon could be countered by Rashomon gates or by Kidomaru's spider summon. When it releases it's egg sack(He controls when it happens, so there's no out speeding it) Sasuke can't make that many Chidori, and Chidori nagashi or whatever won't help him here. Even if he does, what's his counter to the giant spider coming down on him? If he manages to kill it, it explodes everywhere with webbing and then kidomaru can shoot even more webs, or shoot an arrow. If sasuke's disabled for even a second (He's going to be for much longer than that) he gets murdered by the arrow. Tayuya has a 5 in genjutsu and isn't being caught by his genjutsu. Firing katons at them won't heat up the SKY enough for Kirin to work. And also, their speed will increase in CM1 and especially CM2. Sakon and Ukon can summon Rashomon and defend against most of Sasuke's attack, and they can also use their technique to split their bodies apart around the blade like they did with Wolf Fang over Fang. And then they can use Parasite Demon Demolition technique. Their defence against Kirin?

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Sasuke has no way of dodging the arrows. You failed to counter that. Tayuya could also use her genjutsu. It's a sound genjutsu, Sasuke has no counter. Also, he still doesn't have a counter against Revolt of the Demon World. And no counter against doki, which by the way "The Doki are incredibly strong and fast." And on the ground, Jirobo wins easily in hand to hand combat. Same with sakon/ukon.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Sakon: 3.5
Ukon: 3.0
Jirobo: 2
Kidomaru: 3.0
Tayuya: 3.0
Sasuke:3.5

Sasuke isn't exactly outspeeding them. Where do you get the idea they have poor reaction time???
The chidori senbon could be countered by Rashomon gates or by Kidomaru's spider summon. When it releases it's egg sack(He controls when it happens, so there's no out speeding it) Sasuke can't make that many Chidori, and Chidori nagashi or whatever won't help him here. Even if he does, what's his counter to the giant spider coming down on him? If he manages to kill it, it explodes everywhere with webbing and then kidomaru can shoot even more webs, or shoot an arrow. If sasuke's disabled for even a second (He's going to be for much longer than that) he gets murdered by the arrow. Tayuya has a 5 in genjutsu and isn't being caught by his genjutsu. Firing katons at them won't heat up the SKY enough for Kirin to work. And also, their speed will increase in CM1 and especially CM2. Sakon and Ukon can summon Rashomon and defend against most of Sasuke's attack, and they can also use their technique to split their bodies apart around the blade like they did with Wolf Fang over Fang. And then they can use Parasite Demon Demolition technique. Their defence against Kirin?

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Sasuke has no way of dodging the arrows. You failed to counter that. Tayuya could also use her genjutsu. It's a sound genjutsu, Sasuke has no counter. Also, he still doesn't have a counter against Revolt of the Demon World. And no counter against doki, which by the way "The Doki are incredibly strong and fast." And on the ground, Jirobo wins easily in hand to hand combat. Same with sakon/ukon.

I already listed Sasuke's counters to the sound four in my original post but I will clarify them again, Sasuke can use his Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation or Chidori Nagashi to deal with Kidomaru's arrows and as Kidomaru has three eyes in CMS2 one of his eyes will be looking into Sasuke's Sharingan were he can easily place him under his Genjutsu:Sharingan to take him down. Then He can fly over Jirobo's the Sasuke can fire his Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique to burn Jirobo to a crisp. He can deal with Sakon/Ukon with his Demonic Illusion:Shackling Stakes technique. Plus Sasuke can summon snakes to battlefield to tank the arrows or sakon and ukon's taijutsu. Also Sasuke can tie Tayuya up with his wired shurikens then fire a Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique, before she has time to play her flute. Also Sasuke can use his Chidori Katana for close range combo as a hit from the blade will nullify his enemies bodies or use his Chidori Sharp Spear to surprise attack them from within five metres

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. Also Sasuke's CMS2 gives him flight and he would easily be able to sweep down and attack the four or fire, Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique from the sky or his Chidori. Sasuke can also summon Manda to assist him in the battle and can put him under his control like he did in his fight against Deidara, to defeat the four. Also Sasuke can use Hidden Shadow Snake Hands to attack the four and once the snakes bite the four the poison would soon kick in weaking the four allowing Sasuke to finish them off with ease. Or Sasuke can use his Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades plus stream his Raiton chakra for a deadlier impact and as he has the Sharingan this makes it easier for the triple blades to reach his opponent as he can predict their moves with his Sharingan. Sasuke would also be able to see through most of the four's ninjutsu as his Sharingan can predict their movements and can alert him too any arrows or webs around him. Also Sasuke can use Manda to dent the Rashomon summon as Manda was able to tank a C0 from Deidara before eventually dying. Also Sasuke is fast enough to stop Tayuya from summoning Doki and can fire his Chidori Senbon or Chidori Sharp spear or his Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation to stop then quickly fire the shuriken with Lightning chakra to stop Tayuya from performing the summoning.

 

[Curse Mark]

Okay, you disregarded what I said about editing a post after it's been posted and responded to. That should be taken into consideration by the judges, IMO. But anyways,
Sasuke won't be able to blitz Tayuya at over 200 meters. Just think about it. 600 ft. Who can run that far in 3 seconds flat? Especially while Tayuya is moving back and onto a tree branch while he's being charged by Jirobo and Sakon/Ukon? No one can.

I see you no longer have an argument with their speed, Kirin, and never responded with proof the sound 4 has slow reaction time. That basically makes your entire last post totally irrelevant. I already proved you chidori senbon wrong and you had no counter to the spider summon's baby spiders, or the spider itself, or Tayuya's genjutsu or doki's spirit mouth things. And honestly the fact that you think Kidomaru's arrows can be destroyed with a mere chidori sharp spear or nagashi. that's ridiculous. Sharingan won't do shit against the arrows. I'm pretty sure this is ready to be judged.

 

[Kages]

You both countered each others' arguments fairly well.

The reason I'm going to pick Izuna Kakashi Senju as the winner of this debate is that, he put more words and thought in. He counters he came up with with how Sasuke would beeat Sound 4 in the beginning of Part 2. But Izuna Kakashi Senju, you need to be More aggressive when debating, which is why this was really close.

However, Dkdankong got some fairly good arguments as well, even bringing up the databook which is good.

You both should have used a bit more scans from the manga/databooks, but you both countered each other very well.

Winner: Izuna Kakashi Senju high diff

 

[Penguin]

I think the debate was pretty good!

Counter-Arguements
Dkdankong, your counters were really good! The only problem I have is that you did not counter Sasuke's genjutsu. Other than that, really good!
Izuna Kakashi Senju: I like how you were forusing on Sasuke attacking the Sound Four, rather than Sasuke defending against the Sound Four. I do not think you are allowed to edit posts after posted, or unless you say "Edit: blah blah blah" but I could care less.

Arguments

Dkdankong: This is where you got the most points from me. How can Sasuke close in 200m in such a short amount of time, while fighting Jirobo, and Sakon/Ukon. Izuna Kakashi Senju really never responded to this, so I gave this to you. (Databook stats are great!)
Izuna Kakashi Senju: I think you did pretty fair when it came to this category. Be more aggressive!

Winner: Dkdankong won this in my opinion. Izuna just speculated that he can beat Jirobo and Sakon/Ukon, cover 200m+ and reach the other members in such a short amount of time. Very High Diff.

Other notes: Great Debate! Use more scans and whatever else Kages says.

 

[Pekoms]

Okay, sorry for the late response:

Izuna Kakashi Senju:
Positive

• glad to see the incorporation of multiple scans, for techniques and feats
• you were able to clearly elaborate on your thoughts, from beginning to end

Negative

• your scenarios seemed to be a bit too much sequential, the Sound 4 would strike together

Dkdankong:
Positive

• good incorporation of the databooks for support
• your posts were both clear and aggressive in establishing points
• good use of location/distance to counter your fellow debater

Negative

• failed to utilize scans to any significant extent, be more extensive in your approach

The winner for this debate, Dkdankong. His reasoning was simply more sound for the given scenario.
Both of you did quite well though, it wasn't decided until the very end of the debate. Congratulations to both!

 

[Curse Mark]

Thanks for debating with me and thanks to the judges as well. I think you did an awesome job debating. It was fun. ^^ Thanks to everyone.

 

[Penguin]

Anytime mate!