Godaime Hokage versus Yondaime Raikage (read first)

[Penguin]

I use Kirby, or Yoshi in Super Smash Bros Brawl. They rule kinda.

 

[Icelerate]

I use Kirby, or Yoshi in Super Smash Bros Brawl. They rule kinda.

I use a lot of characters: Fox, Falco, Snake, Toon Link, ROB, Olimar, Diddy Kong, Mr. Game and Watch and Pit.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Lol Ike sucks because of his slowness. He is a good character in team battles or free for all but sucks in 1 on 1.

I also wanted to point out that the problem in the comparison you made is neither can heal arbitrarily.

The image you uploaded mentions A's power yet Kishi didn't bother hyping up Tsunade. It tells us that A is superior to her. Also Kishi kept Tsunade from intervening in the fight between the jins and A which tells us that Kishi thinks Tsunade would be a non factor in a fight of that scale.

That logic doesn't hold as at best it shows the personality difference between the two kages and the internal struggle Tsunade was enduring holding Naruto back when she believed he should fighting in the war. We know Kishi didn't consider her a non factor because the raikage specifically asked for her help twice to stop the jins.

Read what Zetsu has to say of A's speed. That hype is very valid and tells us that even in base, Raikage has top tier speed. The final Zetsu that was taken out was by a low kage level ninja (Kitsuchi).

Low Kage is a stretch Mid Jounin is more realistic. Definitely more powerful than Asuma and Kurenai, but not near Kakashi and Gai or even Darui or Temari or Chiyo.
Also Zetsu says he's really fast but Raikage had to move less than 10 meters. And the Zetsu had what 15 enemies to keep his eye on. If someone couldn't blitz him that'd be a problem.

The first scan Tsunade only travelled 10 meters tops and she saw Madara preparing a katon so it isn't that fast. Raikage could have done the same except blitzed Madara in the time it took him to form the katon. As for the 2nd scan, you do realize it was Dan that saved Tsunade, not Tsunade's own speed?

The second scan wasn't about that. But following that line of questioning you brought up it must be within Tsunade's capabilities to move that fast as her body was capable of it. But the original point I was trying to make was that in Base Raikage did not make it as far as Tsunade did. So to say oh well he could have just blitzed Madara, if he was capable of such speed in base why was he unable to get to where Tsunade was faster than it took her to get there. In fact he only managed to jump slightly ahead of Oonoki.

In the third scan, Tsunade's stern look must have paralysed Shizune hindering her ability to react. Orochimaru did the same with Team 7 and Kakashi. Also the range between Shizune and Tsunade wasn't that great. Also note that Shizune is a fodder jounin for the most part. I reckon part 1 Temari and part 1 Neji could beat her. In A's scan, his speed was clearly hyped while no one has hyped Tsunade's speed. Kabuto managed to dodge most of Tsunade's attacks and he had problems dealing with Dosu and other genins during the chunin exams.

It seems unlikely that Shizune was so overcome with fear consider the length of time she's been with Tsunade, she would have known exactly what to expect after her statements. It is much less likely that Tsunade paralyzed her as it is that Shizune was blitzed. After all several others have been blitzed by Tsunade in the length of the Manga and even a chakra-less Tsunade was able to beat an Anbu Black Ops to Pein. No one has hyped her speed, but they really haven't needed to she's shown that she can hold her own in speed time and time again. And while it is true that Kabuto managed to dodge most of Tsunade's attacks, it's also true that a medical ninja's first field of expertise is evasion, it's also true that Kabuto further amplified those abilities with the use of a soldier pill which made him much more capable and placed him above Part 1 Kakashi for that fight. Even Still Tsunade was able to land a hit on him and avoid most of his attacks before her hemophobia. Not to mention that Kabuto himself commented she should not have been at the level she was considering how many years she spent out of battle. Furthermore, she was completely drunk the night before which would obviously have some effect on how you perform in a fight, as would not having rest as Jiraiya said he could tell she was very under-rested.

Thanks for letting me know the difference between the two. I guess Tsunade could win the first scenario if she can manage to summon Katsuyu off the bat. I don't see how the Raikage can handle the summon. The other scenarios I think the Raikage would win.

I tend to think the only place the fourth raikage has a chance is in scenario 3. In V1 his power was not great enough to hurt his brother who was in base. Bee in Hachibi Cloak V1 did enough damage to seriously wound sasuke, against Tsunade, however, such damage is treatable. So if we take that damage and severely tone it down, so that now Bee is in Base, that amount damage couldn't provide Bee with a fatal blow against Tsunade, much could raikage land a fatal blow in V1 less considering he is weaker than Base Bee in strength. I want you to very seriously think about Tsunade's feat I posted above with her tanking the Yasaka Magatamas. Not only is that attack extremely destructive as seen by it's effect on Gaara and Oonoki's defense, but it was strong enough that Tsunade's body broke through solid stone and left and imprint and she got up from that like it wasn't particularly troublesome. Which goes back to my point the idea that V1 Raikage can take her out is a bit ridiculous. And at the point that Katsuyu can divide into over 10,000 miniature versions of herself and still be bigger than a human being. How does the raikage maneuver around that many minis at the speed in which he usually can move, it'll slow him down drastically, and you add onto that the fact that as Tsunade attacks she's destroying her surroundings and making it more difficult for the Raikage to use his speed due to footing problems. I really don't imagine the Raikage winning any battle the majority of the time.

 

[Icelerate]

I also wanted to point out that the problem in the comparison you made is neither can heal arbitrarily.
That logic doesn't hold as at best it shows the personality difference between the two kages and the internal struggle Tsunade was enduring holding Naruto back when she believed he should fighting in the war. We know Kishi didn't consider her a non factor because the raikage specifically asked for her help twice to stop the jins.

The logic I used wasn't a sound one, true, but Ganondorf has more durability compared to Captain Falcon so my argument still somewhat stands. Raikage asked her for help because all the others kages were gone. I think he'd rather take Onoki if Onoki was still at HQ.

Low Kage is a stretch Mid Jounin is more realistic. Definitely more powerful than Asuma and Kurenai, but not near Kakashi and Gai or even Darui or Temari or Chiyo.
Also Zetsu says he's really fast but Raikage had to move less than 10 meters. And the Zetsu had what 15 enemies to keep his eye on. If someone couldn't blitz him that'd be a problem.

Kitsuchi can do all of this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Over here, Kitsuchi managed to destabilize the footing of the Juubi allowing to mess up the Juubi's aim. He did all this before Kakashi could even use kamui an attack which is nigh instantaneous.

Then he managed to trap the Juubi, which is massive in size, using his mountain sandwich trap.

You must be registered for see images

Other things to note, he reacted to Gin/Kin in their tailed forms and hit them with stone fists which shows he is fast, good in taijutsu, strength and has great reaction.

He destroys the ninjas you just mentioned and could put up a good fight against Tsunade too.

The second scan wasn't about that. But following that line of questioning you brought up it must be within Tsunade's capabilities to move that fast as her body was capable of it. But the original point I was trying to make was that in Base Raikage did not make it as far as Tsunade did. So to say oh well he could have just blitzed Madara, if he was capable of such speed in base why was he unable to get to where Tsunade was faster than it took her to get there. In fact he only managed to jump slightly ahead of Oonoki.

I'm kind of unsure why A just store idly. I think the shock of seeing Madara still on the battlefield was too much for him. Anyway I reread that scan and I agree that feat was quite impressive.

It seems unlikely that Shizune was so overcome with fear consider the length of time she's been with Tsunade, she would have known exactly what to expect after her statements. It is much less likely that Tsunade paralyzed her as it is that Shizune was blitzed. After all several others have been blitzed by Tsunade in the length of the Manga and even a chakra-less Tsunade was able to beat an Anbu Black Ops to Pein. No one has hyped her speed, but they really haven't needed to she's shown that she can hold her own in speed time and time again. And while it is true that Kabuto managed to dodge most of Tsunade's attacks, it's also true that a medical ninja's first field of expertise is evasion, it's also true that Kabuto further amplified those abilities with the use of a soldier pill which made him much more capable and placed him above Part 1 Kakashi for that fight. Even Still Tsunade was able to land a hit on him and avoid most of his attacks before her hemophobia. Not to mention that Kabuto himself commented she should not have been at the level she was considering how many years she spent out of battle. Furthermore, she was completely drunk the night before which would obviously have some effect on how you perform in a fight, as would not having rest as Jiraiya said he could tell she was very under-rested.

Fine she was blitzed but part 1 Kabuto did the same. The distance gap between the two wasn't that big. A rusty Tsunade being on par with part 1 Kabuto in speed doesn't make current Tsunade anywhere near V2 Raikage's level though.

I tend to think the only place the fourth raikage has a chance is in scenario 3. In V1 his power was not great enough to hurt his brother who was in base. Bee in Hachibi Cloak V1 did enough damage to seriously wound sasuke, against Tsunade, however, such damage is treatable. So if we take that damage and severely tone it down, so that now Bee is in Base, that amount damage couldn't provide Bee with a fatal blow against Tsunade, much could raikage land a fatal blow in V1 less considering he is weaker than Base Bee in strength. I want you to very seriously think about Tsunade's feat I posted above with her tanking the Yasaka Magatamas. Not only is that attack extremely destructive as seen by it's effect on Gaara and Oonoki's defense, but it was strong enough that Tsunade's body broke through solid stone and left and imprint and she got up from that like it wasn't particularly troublesome. Which goes back to my point the idea that V1 Raikage can take her out is a bit ridiculous. And at the point that Katsuyu can divide into over 10,000 miniature versions of herself and still be bigger than a human being. How does the raikage maneuver around that many minis at the speed in which he usually can move, it'll slow him down drastically, and you add onto that the fact that as Tsunade attacks she's destroying her surroundings and making it more difficult for the Raikage to use his speed due to footing problems. I really don't imagine the Raikage winning any battle the majority of the time.

Katsuyu is a non factor because if Tsunade tries to summon, the Raikage will attack her interrupting her. I think Tsunade is underrated VS Raikage and people say she can't last more than a few seconds. I disagree with this notion as Tsunade may not be that fast but she could still hold her own due to her regeneration, reaction skills and durability but she won't be able to defend against him if she tried to summon. Punching the ground is also a bad idea as it makes Tsunade vulnerable to getting blitzed and if part 1 Kabuto could avoid those attacks, so can A with ease.

 

[Tazzilla88]

The logic I used wasn't a sound one, true, but Ganondorf has more durability compared to Captain Falcon so my argument still somewhat stands. Raikage asked her for help because all the others kages were gone. I think he'd rather take Onoki if Onoki was still at HQ.

Yes Oonoki is the strongest Kage that is a given. But Kishi purposely put Tsunade in the place he did. Mei was not serving in real kage's purpose in her location. Two or Three jounin could have replaced her as guards if Kishi had wanted. The point you were making is that Kishi considered Tsunade a non factor. But I would argue the fact that he put her in that position and had A indirectly state this her help would be helpful against the jins says something.

Kitsuchi can do all of this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Over here, Kitsuchi managed to destabilize the footing of the Juubi allowing to mess up the Juubi's aim. He did all this before Kakashi could even use kamui an attack which is nigh instantaneous.

Then he managed to trap the Juubi, which is massive in size, using his mountain sandwich trap.

You must be registered for see images

Other things to note, he reacted to Gin/Kin in their tailed forms and hit them with stone fists which shows he is fast, good in taijutsu, strength and has great reaction.

He destroys the ninjas you just mentioned and could put up a good fight against Tsunade too.

I will concede. He is more impressive than I originally gave him credit for.That said, Each person in the K11 were also taking out Zetsus. He was the army that literally fodder army fought and killed. That's why I'm not particularly impressed with Zetsus.

I'm kind of unsure why A just store idly. I think the shock of seeing Madara still on the battlefield was too much for him. Anyway I reread that scan and I agree that feat was quite impressive.

It might also have something to do with his ration cloak being off which means slower response times.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Fine she was blitzed but part 1 Kabuto did the same. The distance gap between the two wasn't that big. A rusty Tsunade being on par with part 1 Kabuto in speed doesn't make current Tsunade anywhere near V2 Raikage's level though.

Iirc Kabuto used a fog cloud to blitz Shizune. He masked his actions where Tsunade was just blatantly too fast for Shizune to react. Regardless I wasn't arguing V2 speed, that would be silly. I was arguing base speed. Namely, comparing Raikage's blitz of Zetsu to Tsunade's blitz of Shizune. Neither were very far away and both blitzed before action could be taken. The point I was trying to make was that I don't see Raikage's base being untouchable against Tsunade.

Katsuyu is a non factor because if Tsunade tries to summon, the Raikage will attack her interrupting her. I think Tsunade is underrated VS Raikage and people say she can't last more than a few seconds. I disagree with this notion as Tsunade may not be that fast but she could still hold her own due to her regeneration, reaction skills and durability but she won't be able to defend against him if she tried to summon. Punching the ground is also a bad idea as it makes Tsunade vulnerable to getting blitzed and if part 1 Kabuto could avoid those attacks, so can A with ease.

Perhaps for scenario 3. Maybe even 2. But in one and 4 she'd definitely would have time to summon. And even in scenario's 2 and 3 I'm not so sure as the raikage does not always fight with his ration cloak active.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

So it seems the raikage does not always fight in his ration cloak when he realizes the battle is an extended probably for chakra reasons. Regardless, we've seen even when he's rushing toward Madara or when Madara swung the susanoo sword he didn't activate his ration cloak to try and get anywhere, though he had the determination to do something. Out of his ration cloak, things get dangerous for him. It occurs to me while Tsunade is willing to keep byakugou active Raikage isn't willing to keep his ration cloak active. Meaning there'll be time for her to take some luxuries that would not be afforded to her if he always fought in his ration cloak.

 

[Icelerate]

Yes Oonoki is the strongest Kage that is a given. But Kishi purposely put Tsunade in the place he did. Mei was not serving in real kage's purpose in her location. Two or Three jounin could have replaced her as guards if Kishi had wanted. The point you were making is that Kishi considered Tsunade a non factor. But I would argue the fact that he put her in that position and had A indirectly state this her help would be helpful against the jins says something.

I will concede. He is more impressive than I originally gave him credit for.That said, Each person in the K11 were also taking out Zetsus. He was the army that literally fodder army fought and killed. That's why I'm not particularly impressed with Zetsus.



It might also have something to do with his ration cloak being off which means slower response times.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Iirc Kabuto used a fog cloud to blitz Shizune. He masked his actions where Tsunade was just blatantly too fast for Shizune to react. Regardless I wasn't arguing V2 speed, that would be silly. I was arguing base speed. Namely, comparing Raikage's blitz of Zetsu to Tsunade's blitz of Shizune. Neither were very far away and both blitzed before action could be taken. The point I was trying to make was that I don't see Raikage's base being untouchable against Tsunade.

Perhaps for scenario 3. Maybe even 2. But in one and 4 she'd definitely would have time to summon. And even in scenario's 2 and 3 I'm not so sure as the raikage does not always fight with his ration cloak active.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

So it seems the raikage does not always fight in his ration cloak when he realizes the battle is an extended probably for chakra reasons. Regardless, we've seen even when he's rushing toward Madara or when Madara swung the susanoo sword he didn't activate his ration cloak to try and get anywhere, though he had the determination to do something. Out of his ration cloak, things get dangerous for him. It occurs to me while Tsunade is willing to keep byakugou active Raikage isn't willing to keep his ration cloak active. Meaning there'll be time for her to take some luxuries that would not be afforded to her if he always fought in his ration cloak.

I think Raikage only wins scenario three. As for the point of Raikage not wearing raiton armour. He is conserving his chakra probably. I'm pretty sure he would go V2 against Tsunade. I guess the Raikage isn't very impressive without raiton armour and since raiton armour is the only thing in his arsenal. That cloak must be very haxxed.