[Discussion] Did Hashirama and Tobirama screw up?

BryanSk8

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Me and a friend of mine were arguing about Hashirama and Tobirama. We all know that Tobirama made a huge mistake when he decided to isolate the Uchiha clan. The segregation led to their revolt against the Senju.

However....Hashirama also messed up. By distributing the biju to other lands, he basically fueled the other nation's desire for warfare. That is my opinion. While both Hokage had good intentions, it cannot be ignored that their decisions led to the greatest downfall of the shinobi world.

Hashirama and Tobirama are both amazing, that is true. But does anyone else think that all of the bloodshed could have been prevented if Hashirama and/or Tobirama had handled things a little better?

Discuss.
 

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I think Hashirama giving the other villages Tailed Beasts was an even worse idea.
 

BryanSk8

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Hi BryanSk8, it's me the "friend." Since your playing MW3 right now I'll discuss against your post :D

I say no, because though it may be true they made a mistake alot has to be considered. If Hashirama had Kept the Bijuu to only the leaf it could be easily depicted that the other village would become envious of one village having so much power meaning that instead of multiple villages fighting everyone would want to end the leaf. it has been depicted in history that anytime a nation grows to rich in power tragedy follows fast and hard. It could have made the leaf end up ending every other villages history or genocide for the leaf. His plan was to disperse them to grow faith with in each village having each other have the same power. I would place blame on those who misused this power. Plus it made it harder for the akatsuki to gain them. So though it was a misused judgement it was probably the best thing that could have been done.

Tobirama on the other hand is harder to debate. It was a very poor judgement that could have saved a genocide. The only thing I can say is no one could know if Tobirama deep fear could have been well placed for some. The reason i say this is who is to say that some members of the leaf could have fueled the revolt to happen faster. I say this only because as human being some of us fear the unknown meaning there fear could have caused fights between them mistreatment and envious of the supposed great power. It could have ended up butting heads to the point of no return. But let me say that is a speculation, we will never know. If everyone was like Kushina and Minato we wouldn't even be able to speculate that it was a bad idea but there werestill members of society that only fear the unknown proof being Danzo and the dumb advisors. So it was a Mistake but I have a theory on whose truly to blame.

The guy that crushed Obito's body. You see if Obito wouldn't have been injured he could have been there to protect Rin for himself and maybe knowning the truth behind that story of kakashi and killing Rin. Which Lead to his revolt on the leaf which lead to the death of Minato and Kushina. Who I truly believe could have solvedthe situation between the Leaf and the Uchihas. He just Didn't get enough time.

I am not discrediting your thread its a well thought question and even though I am newly back to this forum I have much respect for you InnerSakura. I woukd never make a joke of any of your threads.

So to summarize I truly believe in the cas of Hashiram Senju he did what was probably best for his situation, even though the beast caused war it also prevent the any foe from easily getting his hands on them for the Juubi because remember Madara was still alive and he was preventing a terrible situation. In the cas of Tobirama Senju his is truly a harder case to defend and there is a better option then what he chose but whos to say that it wouldn't happened no matter what. He was prejudice and made a bad decision but with people like Danzo out there whose to say it wouldn't have been forced in other ways that lead to more death. I believe that no matter what was decided that bad was still to come because trials must be passed before peace can truly be found.
 

Da Best Ever

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Hi BryanSk8, it's me the "friend." Since your playing MW3 right now I'll discuss against your post :D

I say no, because though it may be true they made a mistake alot has to be considered. If Hashirama had Kept the Bijuu to only the leaf it could be easily depicted that the other village would become envious of one village having so much power meaning that instead of multiple villages fighting everyone would want to end the leaf. it has been depicted in history that anytime a nation grows to rich in power tragedy follows fast and hard. It could have made the leaf end up ending every other villages history or genocide for the leaf. His plan was to disperse them to grow faith with in each village having each other have the same power. I would place blame on those who misused this power. Plus it made it harder for the akatsuki to gain them. So though it was a misused judgement it was probably the best thing that could have been done.

Tobirama on the other hand is harder to debate. It was a very poor judgement that could have saved a genocide. The only thing I can say is no one could know if Tobirama deep fear could have been well placed for some. The reason i say this is who is to say that some members of the leaf could have fueled the revolt to happen faster. I say this only because as human being some of us fear the unknown meaning there fear could have caused fights between them mistreatment and envious of the supposed great power. It could have ended up butting heads to the point of no return. But let me say that is a speculation, we will never know. If everyone was like Kushina and Minato we wouldn't even be able to speculate that it was a bad idea but there werestill members of society that only fear the unknown proof being Danzo and the dumb advisors. So it was a Mistake but I have a theory on whose truly to blame.

The guy that crushed Obito's body. You see if Obito wouldn't have been injured he could have been there to protect Rin for himself and maybe knowning the truth behind that story of kakashi and killing Rin. Which Lead to his revolt on the leaf which lead to the death of Minato and Kushina. Who I truly believe could have solvedthe situation between the Leaf and the Uchihas. He just Didn't get enough time.

I am not discrediting your thread its a well thought question and even though I am newly back to this forum I have much respect for you InnerSakura. I woukd never make a joke of any of your threads.

So to summarize I truly believe in the cas of Hashiram Senju he did what was probably best for his situation, even though the beast caused war it also prevent the any foe from easily getting his hands on them for the Juubi because remember Madara was still alive and he was preventing a terrible situation. In the cas of Tobirama Senju his is truly a harder case to defend and there is a better option then what he chose but whos to say that it wouldn't happened no matter what. He was prejudice and made a bad decision but with people like Danzo out there whose to say it wouldn't have been forced in other ways that lead to more death. I believe that no matter what was decided that bad was still to come because trials must be passed before peace can truly be found.

i agree well put...
 

theRPGdude

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Hashirama did what was best. There is no right or wrong choice for Hashirama but what is the best that benefits the world basically. And that resulting in peace treaty's and momentary peace. Balance of power.

Tobirama did what he can to ensure the protection of Kohona. It turns out that his choices led to controversial negotiations and this led to an all out breakout with the Uchiha. To ensure that another Madara will not show up or if it did it would be settle.

Both ensure the well being of the village and the people.
 

Germanicus

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Tobirama did nothing wrong. He tried to give the Uchiha an important job. It was the village that chose to discriminate against the Uchiha due to their position as a police force. Tobirama placed the Uchiha where they belonged; as a strong armed police force. They would have been shunned regardless. Maybe less so, but the Uchiha NEVER got along well with the central administration of Kohona.

It was a legacy of rebellion set by Madara, if anyone else.
 

BryanSk8

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Tobirama did nothing wrong. He tried to give the Uchiha an important job. It was the village that chose to discriminate against the Uchiha due to their position as a police force. Tobirama placed the Uchiha where they belonged; as a strong armed police force. They would have been shunned regardless. Maybe less so, but the Uchiha NEVER got along well with the central administration of Kohona.

It was a legacy of rebellion set by Madara, if anyone else.

Actually Hashirama even admitted that Tobirama isolated the Uchiha.
 

Ryuujinn

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That's the reason i hate hashirama how dare he capturing bijuus as some kind of animals even distributing other villages as his pets dat bastard xd
 

BryanSk8

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That's the reason i hate hashirama how dare he capturing bijuus as some kind of animals even distributing other villages as his pets dat bastard xd

True, but keeping them would only make the other villages envy them and eventually lead to Konoha being targeted by all 4 villages.
 

Ryuujinn

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True, but keeping them would only make the other villages envy them and eventually lead to Konoha being targeted by all 4 villages.

Who told him to capture them huh , he just wanted show off his wood i guess xd
 

Germanicus

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Actually Hashirama even admitted that Tobirama isolated the Uchiha.

I'm sorry, I forgot the guy that wasn't even there at the time knew everything about the situation.

Whatever the premise, the Leaf was a Senju controlled village since Hashi became Hokage. Most of the Uchiha just didn't like the Senju legacy, following Madara's example.
 

Transcendence

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Hashirama - No

Tobirama - Yes

Hashirama was doing what he felt as right for the time and it was. If the Leaf kept the Bijuu's to themselves then the other villages would become envious and probably form an alliance to attack the leaf at the peak of their power (With all the Bijuu's). It was a smart move seeing as it was a medium to establish a peace treaty with other recently formed villages. There's literally nothing wrong with what Hashirama did. If anything, this solidified his legacy as the God of Shinobi by also showing he cared for the Shinobi world, rather than being taken over by the power of having all the Bijuu's at his disposal.

Tobirama on the other hand... Major screw up. Isolating the Uchiha in an already very delicate situation was a terrible idea. Anybody could of seen the dire ramifications that would have from a mile away. His fear of another Madara was misplaced because he didn't realize that all the Uchiha minus Madara wanted peace and forced Madara into the alliance to form the village. It probably wasn't until the appointment of the Uchiha as the police force that the Madara followers decided they wanted to do something. The Police Force was the last straw. If he didn't isolate them, things probably would of been different. Total screw up on Tobirama's part.
 

The Paradox

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I think in the short run of things, they did the right things. They saw an issue at hand and they acted on it.. at the time it seemed like no other option could have been chosen. (there were, but the world doesn't work like that XD if it did we wouldn't have a story about ninjas at war)

In the long run they did mess up.. they didn't think of the future.. and if they did they only thought about maybe 5-10yrs ahead. But who the heck can predict what will happen in the future.. they might have been regarded as "gods" or something like that.. but Then again.. they were the first two hokage (keep in mind this village system was still getting the kinks worked out).
 
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