Establishing why Gai > Kakashi

[Forbidden Technique]

Lately, I've been seeing a lot of people stating that Kakashi can defeat Gai, without fully giving an explanation why. I personally believe Kakashi doesn't stand a chance
Let me explain why.

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Misconceptions​

Spoiler

First of all, let me start by clearing up Kakashis Kamui capabilities. Judging by peoples comments, I don't think its apparent yet that Kakashi can't spam Kamui as we have seen him due during his battle with Obito. While I admit Kakashi has advanced his Kamui since the beginning of shippuden it still isn't on par with the level of which he is able to use with assistance from the Kyuubi. Kakashi clearly states that he isn't able to use it as many times nor warp big objects.

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Now the argument can be made that Gai has no chance in opening any of his gates due to him having to stay still resulting in Kakashi warping him with Kamui beforehand. That is untrue. Gai has shown to be able to open his gates while in movement

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as well skip straight to the 6th gate without having to first open the previous ones

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and here as well

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Gai's Capabilities​

Spoiler

Let me briefly touch up on Gai's capabilites, as I personally feel a lot of Gai's feats are overlooked.

• Strength
  As only a few may know, Gai is a rather strong shinobi. In fact, he has a 5 in that category in the databook. He was able to hold off Kisame who is noted to have super human strength, not even using gates.
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  Gai also attempted to break the giant rock in front of the akatsuki hideout
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  It didn't break because there was a seal, but this still hints he was capable of destroying it. In addition, he is able to destory giant rocks with his nunchucks
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• Reaction
  I'll just let the scans speak for itself here
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• Stamina
  Another factor that I believe is overlooked is his stamina. Gai has a 5 in this category in the databook. He was able to not only use up to the 7th gate in his fight with Kisame but also use Morning Peacock and Daytime Tiger with no chakra exaustion shown
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  In addition, while Gai was at his limit was able to enter the 7th gate and fire one last Hirudora
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• Speed
  Now I don't think we need to bring much attention Gai's speed feats. He is clearly the 4th fastest shinobi in the narutoverse only behind Naruto, Minato, and A.

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How Gai defeats Kakashi

Spoiler

The majority of techniques in Gai's arsenal are all one shot potential. Adding to the fact that his speed is unmatched by many, Gai is a very dangerous opponent. If the given shinobi doesn't posses a powerful defense (in Kakashis case) such as Susanoo or Tsunades durability + healing, they are pretty much doomed.

As mentioned above, kakashi possesses absolutely no means of defense that will protect him from Gai. Gai's sheer speed is too much for even Kakashi and his sharingan to defend against. In fact, Kisame, who, according to the databook, is pretty much equivalent to Kakashi in terms of Taijutsu and Speed.

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Kakashis sharingan prediction will not help him here as his body won't be able to react.

Among his main techniques, Gai possesses many powerful bone crushing CQC techniques. With his much superior speed and strength, Gai could easily injure Kakashi, greatly hindering his fighting capabilities.​

Morning Peacock​

Morning Peacock, while in CQC, is a one shot move.

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Though it was a clone, it holds the same body properties as the original as Itachi explains here

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Meaning that would of killed the real Kisame (who has shown good durability) if it were to be him.
Morning Peacock could also be utilized in a mid-long range assault

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with the stopping power to hold back the 6 tails

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Kakashi has nothing in his arsenal to defend against this.​

Daytime Tiger​

Another technique in Gai's arsenal is Daytime Tiger. At such a large scale blast radius

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, Kakashi has no chance in neither defending nor dodging this technique. Possibly at the cost of the majority of his chakra, he might be able to Kamui it. However, this does him no good as Gai's stamina far exceeds that of Kakashi, and is fully capable of unleashing another one.​

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With all that being sad, how does Kakashi possibly defeat Gai? Kakashi wouldn't be able to land Kamui due Gai's speed. I am aware of him successfully Kamui'ing Susanoo Arrow, but that was only because it was linear. Gai only needs to move spontaneously to avoid this from happening.

Kakashi's raiton and clone techniques aren't a major factor here due to Gai's speed.

Hiding like a mole jutsu to escape Gai is ineffective due to this

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I don't know, maybe im just overrating Gai while underrating Kakashi but I just don't see how he wins. :shrug: Feel free to prove me wrong if im mistaken.​

 

[BigBlade Master]

I disagree, Kakash is stronger

 

[Forbidden Technique]

I disagree, Kakash is stronger

You clearly didn't read one word since you posted your opinion within 30 seconds of me posting this thread.

 

[tell it all]

Yes Guy would beat Kakashi but people will not accept it because Kakashi is more popular so you shouldn't bother. I have made and seen threads wit proven statement and feats explaining why x beat some one popular like Itachi or Sasuke but people still denied it without any counters on the thread. They just say "No ____is stronger."

 

[Orosanagi]

lol no fail, kamui in the face and its over

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Kakashi was spamming Kamui before he get gained the Kyuubi's Chakra. He actually has insane amounts now on his own.

Having said that, Guy's speed can't escape Kakashi's Sharingan. And with Sharingan Kakashi can keep up with Guy in CQC. Kakashi can Ben give himself an edge by Charging a Kunai with Raikiri.

And last but not least he can dodge Hirudora with Doton: Shinju Zanshu No Jutsu

IMO Kakashi is a tier above guy.

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BTW, since this a establishing why thread, I would like to give some constructive critisism. You should try to make your case a bit more concrete and cover all the bases. While its a pain in the ass, you feel really fulfilled at the end.

But be on the look out for my next establishing why c: after showing that Naruto > Edo Madara and Itachi > Minato I wanted to do something less Main stream and me and Fastrthnwind are working on an establishing why for the Hyuuga.

 

[slaton02]

Kakashi was spamming Kamui before he get gained the Kyuubi's Chakra. He actually has insane amounts now on his own.

Having said that, Guy's speed can't escape Kakashi's Sharingan. And with Sharingan Kakashi can keep up with Guy in CQC. Kakashi can Ben give himself an edge by Charging a Kunai with Raikiri.

And last but not least he can dodge Hirudora with Doton: Shinju Zanshu No Jutsu

IMO Kakashi is a tier above guy.

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BTW, since this a establishing why thread, I would like to give some constructive critisism. You should try to make your case a bit more concrete and cover all the bases. While its a pain in the ass, you feel really fulfilled at the end.

But be on the look out for my next establishing why c: after showing that Naruto > Edo Madara and Itachi > Minato I wanted to do something less Main stream and me and Fastrthnwind are working on an establishing why for the Hyuuga.

Kakashi was handed chakra by the kyuubi 3 times. He he couldn't spam without it out he still has low stamina. Kakashi cannot beat 6thgate Guy at close range he would lose to Morning peacock. Saying Kakashi is a tier above Guy change my opinion of you man not even Kakashi thinks that nor Itachi, and did you say Naruto> edo Madara wtf? you sadden me

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Kakashi was handed chakra by the kyuubi 3 times. He he couldn't spam without it out he still has low stamina. Kakashi cannot beat 6thgate Guy at close range he would lose to Morning peacock. Saying Kakashi is a tier above Guy change my opinion of you man not even Kakashi thinks that nor Itachi, and did you say Naruto> edo Madara wtf? you sadden me

Woah there. When Kakashi came into the fight he had already been fighting all day with Sharingan. Then proceeded to use Kage Bunshin, 4 Raikiri, 3 normal Kamui, and one Giant Kamui before he got chakra from the fox.

30% Kisame wasn't truly blitzed by 6th Gate, a faster Kakashi with Sharigan with won't be.

Naruto is > Edo Madara, I made a whole thead proving it.

 

[Penguin]

Kakashi and Guy are equals.

 

[slaton02]

Woah there. When Kakashi came into the fight he had already been fighting all day with Sharingan. Then proceeded to use Kage Bunshin, 4 Raikiri, 3 normal Kamui, and one Giant Kamui before he got chakra from the fox.

30% Kisame wasn't truly blitzed by 6th Gate, a faster Kakashi with Sharigan with won't be.

Naruto is > Edo Madara, I made a whole thead proving it.

Kakashi was healed after him and Guy was cornered by the 5 tbbs and Kurama pick them up and heal them. Also he did do much fight before he got to Naruto(he defeated zabuza and some fodder zetsu and 1 other swordsmen with zabuzas sword. Also Kisame was blitzed by Guy Kisame could react in time to hit him. Also Kakashi isn't much faster than Kisame. He has a 4 in speed while Kakashi has 4.5 [video=youtube_share;vMLC_urgRg4]http://youtu.be/vMLC_urgRg4[/video] and Guy started at the bottom of a lake

 

[Champ]

I agree

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Kakashi was healed after him and Guy was cornered by the 5 tbbs and Kurama pick them up and heal them. Also he did do much fight before he got to Naruto(he defeated zabuza and some fodder zetsu and 1 other swordsmen with zabuzas sword. Also Kisame was blitzed by Guy Kisame could react in time to hit him [video=youtube_share;vMLC_urgRg4]http://youtu.be/vMLC_urgRg4[/video] and Guy started at the bottom of a lake

They were picked up but they weren't healed. That wasn't implied. Kurama didn't say that he healed them till after Naruto blocked Obito.

Kakashi still fought off screen for a long time before coming to Naruto's side. Kisames 30% Cline was still forming coherent thoughts and even swung back. Guy can't blitz Kakashi.

 

[slaton02]

They were picked up but they weren't healed. That wasn't implied. Kurama didn't say that he healed them till after Naruto blocked Obito.

Kakashi still fought off screen for a long time before coming to Naruto's side. Kisames 30% Cline was still forming coherent thoughts and even swung back. Guy can't blitz Kakashi.

Yes it was I believe Guy said the Kyuubi chakra was healing them c'mon demonic we all know they were heal there. Also Kisame had time to swing but Guy was to fast and kicked him what could Kakashi do if Guy does it to him? + you have to account for Guy starting at the bottom of Kisame's lake. Saying Guy can't blitz Kakashi or Kakashi can go toe to toe at close range with Guy in 6th gate is foolish, when base Guy is already faster and gates only make him even faster by double...triple....quadruple???? idk but he gets fast as hell.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Yes it was I believe Guy said the Kyuubi chakra was healing them c'mon demonic we all know they were heal there. Also Kisame had time to swing but Guy was to fast and kicked him what could Kakashi do if Guy does it to him? + you have to account for Guy starting at the bottom of Kisame's lake. Saying Guy can't blitz Kakashi or Kakashi can go toe to toe at close range with Guy in 6th gate is foolish, when base Guy is already faster and gates only make him even faster by double...triple....quadruple???? idk but he gets fast as hell.

Databook scores are outdated, saying base guy is faster than Kakashi is baseless.

He kicked it away but that itself isn't a big deal for speed feats. Also, Kakashi and Guy wernt healed. The Kyuubi did t even mention it till later nmabd that's when Kakashi recOgnized that he gained chakra

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Kakashi was spamming Kamui before he get gained the Kyuubi's Chakra. He actually has insane amounts now on his own.

Before spamming his kamui he was worried about his chakra level.

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If he was worried about it then, what makes you think he was able to spam Kamui on his own afterwards?

Having said that, Guy's speed can't escape Kakashi's Sharingan. And with Sharingan Kakashi can keep up with Guy in CQC. Kakashi can Ben give himself an edge by Charging a Kunai with Raikiri.

First of all, Sasukes sharingan couldn't keep up with Bee, who is slower then Gai. Now, how exactly does Kakashi keep with Gai in CQC?

And last but not least he can dodge Hirudora with Doton: Shinju Zanshu No Jutsu

That's if Gai doesn't direct it towards the ground. Plus, I established why Kakashi isn't completely safe using that jutsu in the OP.

IMO Kakashi is a tier above guy.

Definitely going to have to disagree with you here. The manga has made it quite clear they are equal, if anything.

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BTW, since this a establishing why thread, I would like to give some constructive critisism. You should try to make your case a bit more concrete and cover all the bases. While its a pain in the ass, you feel really fulfilled at the end.

But be on the look out for my next establishing why c: after showing that Naruto > Edo Madara and Itachi > Minato I wanted to do something less Main stream and me and Fastrthnwind are working on an establishing why for the Hyuuga.

Thanks, appreciate it. However, I don't see the point as no matter what, troll posts such as "I disagree, Kakashi wins" are unavoidable. Plus Im a bit lazy. xd

 

[SadSasuke]

lol no fail, kamui in the face and its over

Gai can just dodge it EASILY. Gai is way stronger than Kakashi, plus Kakashi doesn't even has his own powers, just the Sharingan Obito gave him.

 

[Penguin]

Gai can just dodge it EASILY. Gai is way stronger than Kakashi, plus Kakashi doesn't even has his own powers, just the Sharingan Obito gave him.

Kakashi had Chidori. His only original technique.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Before spamming his kamui he was worried about his chakra level.

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If he was worried about it then, what makes you think he was able to spam Kamui on his own afterwards?



First of all, Sasukes sharingan couldn't keep up with Bee, who is slower then Gai. Now, how exactly does Kakashi keep with Gai in CQC?



That's if Gai doesn't direct it towards the ground. Plus, I established why Kakashi isn't completely safe using that jutsu in the OP.



Definitely going to have to disagree with you here. The manga has made it quite clear they are equal, if anything.

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Thanks, appreciate it. However, I don't see the point as no matter what, troll posts such as "I disagree, Kakashi wins" are unavoidable. Plus Im a bit lazy. xd

Because he went on to spam. Without some type of conformation from the Fox or Kakashi I'm incline to say that Kakashi did it with his own Chakra. Especially when they made a big deal out of it when Naruto was fighting Obito.

Different scenario, Sasuke couldn't keep up with Bee because he had to focus on so many targets at once. I must also pnt out hat Bee kept up with the Raikage. Who is much faster than Guy.

My B, kinda skimmed because I honestly don't like debating his match up very much. But there's always the chance that Kakashicam get away with it.

I understand if you do t want to keep this debate up xD cuz I honestly dont want to myself.

 

[slaton02]

Because he went on to spam. Without some type of conformation from the Fox or Kakashi I'm incline to say that Kakashi did it with his own Chakra. Especially when they made a big deal out of it when Naruto was fighting Obito.

Different scenario, Sasuke couldn't keep up with Bee because he had to focus on so many targets at once. I must also pnt out hat Bee kept up with the Raikage. Who is much faster than Guy.

My B, kinda skimmed because I honestly don't like debating his match up very much. But there's always the chance that Kakashicam get away with it.

I understand if you do t want to keep this debate up xD cuz I honestly dont want to myself.

Bee had no keeping up todo it was a test of strenghth by lariting eachother, neither threw out a combo or tried to dodge. A is not "much faster" than Guy in gates. He may be faster but not a huge difference. How did you even compare Guy's speed to A's anyway? How can you tell who's faster? I'm done with this debate as well, I'm off for today.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Because he went on to spam. Without some type of conformation from the Fox or Kakashi I'm incline to say that Kakashi did it with his own Chakra. Especially when they made a big deal out of it when Naruto was fighting Obito.

Different scenario, Sasuke couldn't keep up with Bee because he had to focus on so many targets at once. I must also pnt out hat Bee kept up with the Raikage. Who is much faster than Guy.

My B, kinda skimmed because I honestly don't like debating his match up very much. But there's always the chance that Kakashicam get away with it.

I understand if you do t want to keep this debate up xD cuz I honestly dont want to myself.

If he was worried about his chakra level, especaially whle using a chakra taxing jutsu such as a kage bunshin, it makes more sense that it wasn't in fact his chakra. In the pain invasion arc, he was only able to use it a few times. It makes no sense to say shortly after he is able to spam kamui after already being short on chakra. It just doesn't add up, whether conformation or not.

Not a completely different scenario. Gai's punching/kicking speed is so fast that it creates fire from the friction. He was able to produce hundreds of these fire balls within seconds while countering Kisames 1000 sharks. This indicates that Gai is perfectly capable of throwing a great number of punches/kicks within a second. In result of this, the number of attacks coming from Gai is a lot greater then B's swords. Also, A isn't much faster then Gai. Gated Gai is perfectly capable of keeping up with A as well.

Lol I don't mind, just simply stating my reasoning.