Rikudou Sennin Is Definitely An Uzumaki

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

If they have Uchiha Dna, then they also have the Sharingan.

Not really since it's highly probable, like the others have pointed out, that the Sharingan is a result of the corruptive influence of the Juubi.

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[KillerbYo]

ye i said this like along time ago.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

ye i said this like along time ago.

baka yaro kono yaro

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

has it occurred that the uzumaki are descendants of the sage just like the gold and silver bro's?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

has it occurred that the uzumaki are descendants of the sage just like the gold and silver bro's?

The brothers could share a common ancestry with the Sage, but it doesn't necessarily mean they were direct descendants of the Sage.

 

[Frikid]

well this has been said before by that youth guy, so you are just a copycat now.
But you do help people who haven't read that theory in past.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

well this has been said before by that youth guy, so you are just a copycat now.
But you do help people who haven't read that theory in past.

Who is that?

And this theory has been stated years before either him or I have done so, that Rikudou Sennin was an Uzumaki and yet I wanted to expound the theory further, the idea was there, but I wanted to elaborate further.

 

[shelke]

This is the first time I will have to show strong disagreement on all fronts. I am going to go point by point here:

- Lineage: Uchiha and Senju did not share any love and peace nonsensical rubbish the manga is feeding us through the likes of senju-supporters or Senju clan members themselves a la, Tobirama. If you remember clearly, Uchiha and Senju were nothing but mercenary clans who were repeated hired by several nations to shed nothing but blood. Sure Hashirama grew tired of it first, but Uchiha clan extended their hands for a truce such as readily.

Uzumaki clan being a clan of peace is nothing but speculation on your part. Take Nagato for example, he lives in the rain village, surrounded by fire, earth, and one more country that has just slipped my mind, and hence forth was always a battleground for wars. When Konoha bested other countries in the last great war, Nagato lost everything and after final intervention from Konoha, he became a figure-head of a renegade organization - nothing immoral about that, honestly - assimilating several powerful missing-nins.

Karin's origins are completely unknown. Mito was from this village, and so was Kushina. If I am to assume that after Uzushiogakure's destruction after the last great war - as the story goes - then at least Karin was from there as well, as people scattered after its destruction? According to the data, the village was destroyed for their fuinjutsus - sealing techniques - then they obviously utilized it during times of war, as their Funijutsus obviously would've been a treat to other villages. And since Senju clan had good ties with them through Konoha, there is nothing to assume that this village was also not present before Konoha was created, and its members participated as hires as well.

Cutting the long discussion short; none of these clans were peace-loving clans as you make it sound like.

- Kinship: False. It's easy to discern from all the given statements that the Uzumaki clan originated some time after the younger son's reign, as one of the family - Senju - members must have wed into another clan, predominately a powerful clan now lost to history, that gave rise to distinct features within the clan, as red hair and long life-spans. We all know that the younger son had the sage's body, hence if one of his offspring or near descendents wed another individual from another clan, it's highly probable that the biological or spiritual features of the Senju clan mutated and some traits over-whelmed the line, namely body energy - a distinct factor of Senju clan.

Even after the lines 'thinned' Hashirama's cells give indefinite boost to abilities, and we all know that Madara and Hashirama are closer to the older and younger sage's son then anyone else. Henceforth it's safe to assume that the younger son had similar body/chakra/biological features that carried on to and expanded from the aforementioned off-spring. It's called cross-breeding. That clan must have been like the Uzumaki clan to the younger sage's sons clan, which remains unnamed. And it's quite possible that through further marriage with that unknown clan, Uzumaki clan was born. You have to think of parallels here, as this manga had done nothing but 'repeat' scenarios.

- Rinnegan: I hardly doubt it. The manga clearly mentions that the two major clans started from older brother and younger brothers. The obviously wedded into different powerful clans, but since they were the sage's direct off-springs, their biological traits were hard to over-whelm. Uzumaki being an off-shoot from the Senju clan - as I explained earlier - has certain Senju traits, predominately the body energy, but they also carry the longevity factor, that was probably a trait of their original ancestor.

Nagato was given the Rinnegan, because he has an 'incredible' life-force and large amount of Chakra to handle the burden of the Rinnegan. It has also been repeatedly ventured that both the power of the Uchiha and Senju make up the Sanin. Adding both of them doesn't equal Uzumaki, otherwise, Karin, Mito, Kushina, and Nagato should have had Rinnegan by default, which were the sage's eyes to begin with.

I am afraid, I completely disagree, but it's a great theory. Kishimoto is known to create ass-pulls honestly. Who know. Good job regardless, as the matter is thoroughly researched, not musings of a fanboy. *****.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Lineage: Uchiha and Senju did not share any love and peace nonsensical rubbish the manga is feeding us through the likes of senju-supporters or Senju clan members themselves a la, Tobirama. If you remember clearly, Uchiha and Senju were nothing but mercenary clans who were repeated hired by several nations to shed nothing but blood. Sure Hashirama grew tired of it first, but Uchiha clan extended their hands for a truce such as readily.

The Uchihas and Senjus didn't share the idea of love and peace, because the Uchihas believed in the antithesis of that ideal, which is war and hatred. The Uzumakis shared the ideas of the Senjus, for if that was not so then they wouldn't have an ancestral alliance tied by both blood and beliefs but they did.

Uzumaki clan being a clan of peace is nothing but speculation on your part. Take Nagato for example, he lives in the rain village, surrounded by fire, earth, and one more country that has just slipped my mind, and hence forth was always a battleground for wars. When Konoha bested other countries in the last great war, Nagato lost everything and after final intervention from Konoha, he became a figure-head of a renegade organization - nothing immoral about that, honestly - assimilating several powerful missing-nins.

I'm sorry but what you have just stated is incorrect in all premises,The Uzumaki Clan have long been disbanded as a unified clan, Nagato was born when the Uzumakis and the Land of Eddy's have already been destroyed, so it is a categorical error for you to assume that because Nagato was an Uzumaki and lived in a land of strife in the Hidden Rain Village, that the Uzumaki Clan as whole were warmongers, also take note that Nagato's fall from grace was caused by the lost of his best friend Yahiko, Nagato was by nature a good man.

- Kinship: False. It's easy to discern from all the given statements that the Uzumaki clan originated some time after the younger son's reign, as one of the family - Senju - members must have wed into another clan, predominately a powerful clan now lost to history, that gave rise to distinct features within the clan, as red hair and long life-spans. We all know that the younger son had the sage's body, hence if one of his offspring or near descendents wed another individual from another clan, it's highly probable that the biological or spiritual features of the Senju clan mutated and some traits over-whelmed the line, namely body energy - a distinct factor of Senju clan.

That is pure conjecture in your part, in what part of Manga canon states that the Uzumakis' distinct features such as red hair were a result of mix breeding between Senju and other bloodlines? it is pure speculation on your part without basis or merit. Since Kushina did not refer to the Senjus as the main branch or that the Uzumakis were descended from the Senjus, it is logical to conclude that they are of kinship, of relations, but not necessarily of descent.

Even after the lines 'thinned' Hashirama's cells give indefinite boost to abilities, and we all know that Madara and Hashirama are closer to the older and younger sage's son then anyone else. Henceforth it's safe to assume that the younger son had similar body/chakra/biological features that carried on to and expanded from the aforementioned off-spring. It's called cross-breeding. That clan must have been like the Uzumaki clan to the younger sage's sons clan, which remains unnamed. And it's quite possible that through further marriage with that unknown clan, Uzumaki clan was born. You have to think of parallels here, as this manga had done nothing but 'repeat' scenarios.

Like I said this is pure speculation in your part, you assume that there is this "unnamed clan" which together with the Senju Ancestor, became the progenitor of the Uzumakis, and since it is you who proposes the idea of an obscure clan intermarrying with the Senju line of the Ancestor son which makes it convoluted, then by the application of Occam's Razor, it is more correct to assume that the Uzumaki Clan were the progenitor clan of both Senju and Uchiha without the need to include the convoluted idea of an "unnamed clan" that brought forth the Uzumaki lineage.

Rinnegan: I hardly doubt it. The manga clearly mentions that the two major clans started from older brother and younger brothers. The obviously wedded into different powerful clans, but since they were the sage's direct off-springs, their biological traits were hard to over-whelm. Uzumaki being an off-shoot from the Senju clan - as I explained earlier - has certain Senju traits, predominately the body energy, but they also carry the longevity factor, that was probably a trait of their original ancestor.

Like I have stated earlier, your convoluted assumption of the Uzumaki heritage descending from the union of the Senju Ancestor with an unnamed clan is convoluted and farfetched, so by that fact alone, this invalidates your proposition that the Uzumaki were an off branch of the main Senju line.

Nagato was given the Rinnegan, because he has an 'incredible' life-force and large amount of Chakra to handle the burden of the Rinnegan. It has also been repeatedly ventured that both the power of the Uchiha and Senju make up the Sanin. Adding both of them doesn't equal Uzumaki, otherwise, Karin, Mito, Kushina, and Nagato should have had Rinnegan by default, which were the sage's eyes to begin with.

Like I have stated in my original post, The Sage could belong to the Uzumaki line, but it does not necessarily mean that those who share common descent with the Sage could awaken the Rinnegan because the Rinnegan is unique to the Sage, hence, by the law of genetic inheritance, only those of direct descent: namely the Uchihas and the Senjus, can awaken the Rinnegan.

 

[Honord Sage]

The last 3 to 4 chapters have revealed more about the Uzumaki in quit some time,coincidence? I think not Grab on to you'r seats Kishi is getting ready to reveal that The SO6P was an Uzumaki in a few more chapters you may be shock like some of you were when Tobi turn out to be Obito,But in a bigger scale as Kishi says The SO6P was an Uzumaki and His inheritor is the New SO6P Naruto Uzumaki, You have ben warn.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The last 3 to 4 chapters have revealed more about the Uzumaki in quit some time,coincidence? I think not Grab on to you'r seats Kishi is getting ready to reveal that The SO6P was an Uzumaki in a few more chapters you may be shock like some of you were when Tobi turn out to be Obito,But in a bigger scale as Kishi says The SO6P was an Uzumaki and His inheritor is the New SO6P Naruto Uzumaki, You have ben warn.

Yeah, the truth shall soon be unveiled

 

[OfficialRikudouSennin]

Sweet thread

 

[ThEpRoMiSeDlAnD]

Re: Rikudou and Uzumaki: Sealing Jutsus

Didn't Rikudou create ninjutsu?
Which means there wasn't an Uzumaki clan with some fancy sealing techniques during and before Rikudou's time, so there goes the theory of Rikudou coming from a clan specialized in sealing jutsu.
Like all ninja clans the Uzumaki clan was formed sometime after Rikudou's time by some Senju descendants.

The only connection they have with the So6P is that they are descendants of the Senju who in turn are descendants of the So6P.

This theory has been going on for so long and it needs to die.

^this how could there be so few answers like this.

The sage is of both uchihas and senju blood line matter fact he is the creator of both blood lines the uzamaki come from the senju line.

Also he created ninjutsu so there were no sealing techs before him the sage is his own blood line he couldn't be an uzamaki because they can about long after his death

 

[Transcendence]

I have a feeling this will be like the Tobi=Obito theories. A large percentage of people will accept it, but a near equal amount will refute it because of it being "too obvious" or seemingly lack of evidence (Frankly, both of them have a lot).

Another thing to note: The Uzumaki's have both Strong Chakra AND Physical Bodies. Who has Strong Chakra? Uchiha. Who have strong physical life force's? Senju. Not to mention, two guys in the series (Naruto and Nagato) both being Uzumaki's have two of the highest natural chakra reserves, even in comparison to Madara and Hashirama.

The battle I want to see though: Naruto with the Rinnegan vs Sasuke with the Elder son's eyes.

EDIT: Will you people stop bringing up the two bloodlines?

Yes he is, but that is because of his two sons! He is related to the Senju and Uchiha through his relation to his sons!

Think of it like this: I have two offspring. Both being boys, two years apart. Both go on to play basketball and become legends. They have children and continue the tradition of being basketball super stars. What is the common linkage between me and my sons offspring the subsequent offspring after? MY SONS. So I started the bloodline which was passed down, however thinned out through my sons and their offspring over time.

Same thing with the sage.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Sweet thread

Thank you

 

[rollin]

the only thing im iffy about him being an uzumaki is
the sage created a seal for the juubi

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the guy in the middle of the juubi's mouth resembles naruto's seal

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it takes all of kurama's yang chakra for naruto,an uzumaki,to makes his seal like that

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the younger son inherited the sage's body, life-force, and yang chakra so if he knew this seal he would probably look like that too
so to me it seems like naruto,an uzumaki,has to get all of that yang chakra from kurama to look like that because uzumaki/senju's are distant descendants and half to make up for their blood/chakra thinning

 

[shelke]

The Uchihas and Senjus didn't share the idea of love and peace, because the Uchihas believed in the antithesis of that ideal, which is war and hatred. The Uzumakis shared the ideas of the Senjus, for if that was not so then they wouldn't have an ancestral alliance tied by both blood and beliefs but they did.

Given their mercenary status? You can't be serious. An all-loving clan that fills all lines of cliches still killed people after working for nations as common hires?

I'm sorry but what you have just stated is incorrect in all premises,The Uzumaki Clan have long been disbanded as a unified clan, Nagato was born when the Uzumakis and the Land of Eddy's have already been destroyed, so it is a categorical error for you to assume that because Nagato was an Uzumaki and lived in a land of strife in the Hidden Rain Village, that the Uzumaki Clan as whole were warmongers, also take note that Nagato's fall from grace was caused by the lost of his best friend Yahiko, Nagato was by nature a good man.

The clan disbanded some time after Kishina came to the village as far as I can remember. The problem is alteration. I am not declaring anything he did as immoral even after he reduced Konoha to rubble. I am merely talking about the peace tag to slap on people. Karin murdered completely innocent individuals by the buckets and buried them in mass graves. She makes Obito look like a complete saint. Henceforth your logic is misplaced.

That is pure conjecture in your part, in what part of Manga canon states that the Uzumakis' distinct features such as red hair were a result of mix breeding between Senju and other bloodlines? it is pure speculation on your part without basis or merit. Since Kushina did not refer to the Senjus as the main branch or that the Uzumakis were descended from the Senjus, it is logical to conclude that they are of kinship, of relations, but not necessarily of descent.

This is how new clans, ethnic groups, and even languages are created; wedding into another clan. As Uzumaki are a distant relative, this cross-breeding logic automatically applies. This isn't farfetched logic, but an extremely logical one. That is just one individual. Obito and Madara know about the monk more than anyone, and I will stick to their blood-line logic than someone like Kushina.

Like I said this is pure speculation in your part, you assume that there is this "unnamed clan" which together with the Senju Ancestor, became the progenitor of the Uzumakis, and since it is you who proposes the idea of an obscure clan intermarrying with the Senju line of the Ancestor son which makes it convoluted, then by the application of Occam's Razor, it is more correct to assume that the Uzumaki Clan were the progenitor clan of both Senju and Uchiha without the need to include the convoluted idea of an "unnamed clan" that brought forth the Uzumaki lineage.

Isn't your idea a speculation as well? I am putting in the common clan or ethic group creation factor here, which is an anthropologically correct statement. Many clans remain ambiguous at this point. Hyuga clan were first assumed to be connected to Sharingan. They could very well be, as they are the only two clans with Ocular Kekki Genkais. Just like the Uzumaki clan is an off-shoot branch of Senju, Hyuga could be very distant relatives as well. Kishimoto just didn't want to make them seem too important in the second arc.

That is pure conjecture in your part, in what part of Manga canon states that the Uzumakis' distinct features such as red hair were a result of mix breeding between Senju and other bloodlines? it is pure speculation on your part without basis or merit. Since Kushina did not refer to the Senjus as the main branch or that the Uzumakis were descended from the Senjus, it is logical to conclude that they are of kinship, of relations, but not necessarily of descent.

Like I have stated in my original post, The Sage could belong to the Uzumaki line, but it does not necessarily mean that those who share common descent with the Sage could awaken the Rinnegan because the Rinnegan is unique to the Sage, hence, by the law of genetic inheritance, only those of direct descent: namely the Uchihas and the Senjus, can awaken the Rinnegan.

I have put forth a common cross-breeding factor. Where have I passed it off as a fact? How could he belong to the Uzumaki clan when the clan didn't even exist at the time of Sage's sons and is declared as an off-shoot from Senju clan; a clan that was formed eons after the 'thinning of sage's bloodlines'?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Given their mercenary status? You can't be serious. An all-loving clan that fills all lines of cliches still killed people after working for nations as common hires?

Mercenaries does not equate to evil, countries hire mercenaries for the protection of their nations, is that evil? no.

The clan disbanded some time after Kishina came to the village as far as I can remember. The problem is alteration. I am not declaring anything he did as immoral even after he reduced Konoha to rubble. I am merely talking about the peace tag to slap on people. Karin murdered completely innocent individuals by the buckets and buried them in mass graves. She makes Obito look like a complete saint. Henceforth your logic is misplaced.

Since I have already stated that the clan disbanded, then what gives you the assumption that Karin who is an Uzumaki, still adhered to his Clan's beliefs, is it not possible to assume Karin is a "black sheep" in a disbanded benevolent clan's family?

This is how new clans, ethnic groups, and even languages are created; wedding into another clan. As Uzumaki are a distant relative, this cross-breeding logic automatically applies. This isn't farfetched logic, but an extremely logical one. That is just one individual. Obito and Madara know about the monk more than anyone, and I will stick to their blood-line logic than someone like Kushina.

That is not necessarily so, if you know your Anthropological and World History well, then you would know that inbreeding is a common thing, the royal families of Europe did not marry outside of their family, because they wanted to preserve their "royal blood" within their dynasties. And since the Uchihas, like Sasuke's parents, have displayed physical qualities similar to one another, then it's logical to assume that the same principle of the preservation of the gene pool through marrying from within a clan applies to clans like the Uzumakis.

Isn't your idea a speculation as well? I am putting in the common clan or ethic group creation factor here, which is an anthropologically correct statement. Many clans remain ambiguous at this point. Hyuga clan were first assumed to be connected to Sharingan. They could very well be, as they are the only two clans with Ocular Kekki Genkais. Just like the Uzumaki clan is an off-shoot branch of Senju, Hyuga could be very distant relatives as well. Kishimoto just didn't want to make them seem too important in the second arc.

It is you who makes the superfluous assumption, since I have only introduced three elements concerning the Sage's ancestry: The Uzumakis, The Senjus and the Uchihas, but you introduced a hypothetical fourth element this "other clan" that you have proposed, so by the logical application of Occam's Razor, the less superfluous assumption, that is mine, has greater intellectual veracity and approximation compared to yours.

have put forth a common cross-breeding factor. Where have I passed it off as a fact? How could he belong to the Uzumaki clan when the clan didn't even exist at the time of Sage's sons and is declared as an off-shoot from Senju clan; a clan that was formed eons after the 'thinning of sage's bloodlines'?

Is is your superfluous assumption again that clans did not exist during the time of the Sage, like I have pointed out in my original post, Jiraiya has declared that the time of the Sage was an era of war, and war is caused by the clash of paradigmatic beliefs of separate factions, and what factions have the manga showed who are the predominant factions that engages in war? clans, even before the founding of the first Shinobi Villages clans have already fought, and since the time of the Sage was also a time of constant war before the founding of the Shinobi Villages, then it's only logical to assume that clans have already existed since the Sage's time which he is a member of a particular clan, which most probably is the Uzumaki Clan.

 

[shelke]

Mercenaries does not equate to evil, countries hire mercenaries for the protection of their nations, is that evil? no.

Blood-shed does. The term peace is universally equated with tranquility and goodness. I am talking about Senju clan working as Mercenaries. They had no obligation to work as hires.

That is not necessarily so, if you know your Anthropological and World History well, then you would know that inbreeding is a common thing, the royal families of Europe did not marry outside of their family, because they wanted to preserve their "royal blood" within their dynasties. And since the Uchihas, like Sasuke's parents, have displayed physical qualities similar to one another, then it's logical to assume that the same principle of the preservation of the gene pool applies to clans like the Uzumakis.

Uzumakis being a distant relative doesn't equate to in-breeding, but cross-bredding. I believe I am not even discussion about in-bredding, but taking about creation of new clans, which isn't possible without corss-breeding?

It is you who makes the superfluous assumption, since I have only introduced three elements concerning the Sage's ancestry: The Uzumakis, The Senjus and the Uchihas, but you introduced a hypothetical fourth element this "other clan" that you have proposed, so by the logical application of Occam's Razor, the less superfluous assumption, that is mine, has greater intellectual veracity and approximation compared to yours.

You have simply assumed that Uchiha, Senju, and Uzumaki are three off-shoots from the Sage, when it doesn't align with manga information at all. The assumption on my part is the 'fill-in' the distant relative logic used by Kishimoto. No where have I stated it as a fact, but have used a common cross-breeding example from real world as a base for for the relation.

How is simple cross-breeding a superfluous example? You highly need high end intellectualism for this take on the Uzumaki theory. Also, this isn't a debate of who is right or wrong. You posted a thread, and I am not in agreement. You should have the courage to accept all facets of justifications from others, rather than only embracing those that support your logic. That is hardly mature. I mean no disrespect, but you are coming across as quite conceited with this 'intellectual' remark of yours. I am sorely disappointed.

Is is your assumption again that the Uzumaki clans did not exist during the time of the Sage, like I have pointed out in my original post, Jiraiya has declared that the time of the Sage was an era of war, and war is caused by the clash of paradigmatic beliefs of separate factions, and what factions have the manga showed who are the predominant factions that engages in war? clans, even before the founding of the first Shinobi Villages clans have already fought, and since the time of the Sage was also a time of constant war before the founding of the Shinobi Villages, then it's only logical to assume that clans have already existed since the Sage's time which he is one of its' members, which most probably is the Uzumaki Clan.

Please point out a single manga page which proves that Senju and Uchiha clan existed at the time of this Sanin? It's quite intricately delineated by Obito that Uchiha and Senju are the decedents of Sage's offspring, henceforth, they didn't exist at that time. That much is quite certain. I am only talking about Senju and Uchiha clan here. Bringing clans that existed at the time of the sage is hardly relevant here.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Blood-shed does. The term peace is universally equated with tranquility and goodness. I am talking about Senju clan working as Mercenaries. They had no obligation to work as hires.

It does not necessarily mean that mercenary work entails an immoral act would be committed
since in war and battles, justified killing is a morally acceptable, take for example Minato and
all the shinobis he killed during the Third Great Shinobi World War, killing with malicious intent
and killing from obligation are completely two different things based on moral grounds.

Uzumakis being a distant relative doesn't equate to in-breeding, but cross-bredding. I believe I am not even discussion about in-bredding, but taking about creation of new clans, which isn't possible without corss-breeding?

I was not referring to inbreeding in conjunction with your assumption that the Uzumakis and Senjus intermarried because I do not accept your premise. Rather I was referring to inbreeding within the Uzumaki Clan itself. So it is a presumptive and categorical error in your part.

You have simply assumed that Uchiha, Senju, and Uzumaki are three off-shoots from the Sage, when it doesn't align with manga information at all. The assumption on my part is the 'fill-in' the distant relative logic used by Kishimoto. No where have I stated it as a fact, but have used a common cross-breeding example from real world as a base for for the relation.

How is simple cross-breeding a superfluous example? You highly need high end intellectualism for this take on the Uzumaki theory. Also, this isn't a debate of who is right or wrong. You posted a thread, and I am not in agreement. You should have the courage to accept all facets of justifications from others, rather than only embracing those that support your logic. That is hardly mature. I mean no disrespect, but you are coming across as quite conceited with this 'intellectual' remark of yours. I am sorely disappointed.

Fill-in the distant relative by Kishimoto, no sir, it is you who assumed too much, not Mr. Kishimoto, you have assumed the superfluous idea and justified your proposition by giving it the veneer of validation that your line of thinking is the same as Kishimoto's which is false. It is superfluous because you introduce the hypothetical fourth element which is "the other clan" rather than the three elements that are already present within the canon of the manga: The Senjus, Uchihas and the Uzumakis, and if you find my remarks as conceited I can assure you that it was not my intention to appear as such, I am merely stating my proposition which is antithetic to yours, if you perceive that as arrogance then I am very sorry.

Please point out a single manga page which proves that Senju and Uchiha clan existed at the time of this Sanin? It's quite intricately delineated by Obito that Uchiha and Senju are the decedents of Sage's offspring, henceforth, they didn't exist at that time. That much is quite certain. I am only talking about Senju and Uchiha clan here. Bringing clans that existed at the time of the sage is hardly relevant here.

You are putting words in my mouth, I said clans existed during the Sage's Era I did not say the present Uchiha or Senju Clans existed back then, what I am pointing out is that clans did exists during the Sage's time, and yes, it is relevant to my argument because I am pointing out that the Uzumakis probably existed during the Sage's time along with other clans who were at war.