new sage of 6 paths
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I said if we where to take kurama outa the equation.he'd have infinite SM.
WTF,Naruto,chuunin level?
- Thread starter new sage of 6 paths
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I said if we where to take kurama outa the equation.he'd have infinite SM.
fastrthnwind
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As per the DB, please read this:
It's an enhancement technique, which is not allowed when considering a persons base abilities. Think of rock lee who can who use ninjutsu and genjutsu without access to the gates as what a typical shinobi would be considered to be in base mode
Stats
- First let me give a brief explanation of each Databook Stat so everyone is on the same page.
(Nin) Ninjutsu - A ninja's knowledge and skill at performing Ninja techniques
(Tai) Taijutsu - A ninja's Knowledge and skill with hand to hand combat skills
(Gen) Genjutsu - A ninja's knowledge and skill at peroming Illusion techniques
(Int) Intelligence - Measure of cunning overall knowledge and IQ
(Str) Strength - Measure of physical power and body fitness
(Spd) Speed - Measure of swiftness and reaction speed
(Sta) Stamina - Measure amount of stamina which is the base of chakra
(Sea) Seal Knowledge - A ninja's knowledge and skill at perfomring seals
- Of each of these stats a person can recive a number between 0 - 5 that donotes their skill in that area for max total of 40. However for clarification let me explain what those numbers mean.
The easiest way to understand it is to look at the following chart and replace the quotation marks with one of the Stats Nin, Tai, Gen, Sea.
Skill:
Databook numbers mean...
(Note: Of course know Int, Str, Spd, Sta are not measured in skill but in capacity)
0 = No skill in " "
1 = Poor skill in " "
2 = Below Average skill in " "
3 = Average skill in " "
4 = Above Average skill in " "
5 = Extreme skill in " "
- Now when it comes to Nin , Tai & Gen this does not measure the power of jutsu a person uses but the skill at which they use that style of jutsu. Kakashi is known as the most skillful ninja in Konoha because of his skill with ninjutsu not his overwhelming power.
There is a connection between skill and power tho because in order to use S-class jutsu you need a great deal of skill or in the databook at least a 4 or 5 in the Nin , Tai or Gen class.
Lets use Naruto an an example as we got to see his Rasenshuriken from creation to incomplete form to complete. Naruto in at his return to Konoha had a 4 in Ninjutsu showing he had Above average skill in his style of ninjutsu.
So lets look and see the difference in ninja skills...
Example:
-> With a 4 in Ninjutsu Naruto was able to harness an S-class jutsu but it was unstable and while it worked it also caused his hand damage as well as his opponet making its use dangerous and limited to close range.
-> However look at Naruto Post Sage training with possible a 5 in Ninjutsu his mastery of his Rasenshuriken makes the jutsu stable and a mid range to long range jutsu.
The point being the more skill you have the more control you have and possibly the more powerful the jutsu you can create.
Capacity:
- Ok and as far as Capacity stats like Int , Str, Spd, Sta go this is also not exact measure of capacity but more of a range. I qutote an earlier post I made regarding this to save time.
As for you stamina when at level 5 its not a reflection of an exact amount its just means compared to an average shinobi that it it would be classified extreme stamina. Gai , Naruto and Kisame all have 5 in stamina but that doesnt mean they have he exact same amount.
Here would be a rough idea of how stamina is translated:
1 = Poor Stamina
2 = Below Average Stamina
3 = Average Stamina
4 = Above Average Stamina
5 = Extreme Stamina
So in another example if you translated this into the realm of money then someone who makes maybe $30,000 a year is considered average income ( 3 sat). Then also someone who makes $40,000 is also considered average ( 3 stat). Even tho they are not the same number they both fall into the same
range as that is what it is a range. So somone making $250,000 + a year would be seen as wealthy (5 stat).
So you can look at the 1-5 Stamina chart in the same light as it is just a general range.
Totals
- So lets get to the final part of stats that being the cumilative total of stats and measuring that against another person stats. The total sum of a persons stats measure thier overall skill in all areas however in general there are 2 main types when it comes to higher level shinobi which I call Speciality types and Well rounded types.
-> Speciality types like Gai, Kakashi & Kurenai have most of thier skill in a paticular area that gives them an edge in a fight in theory they can quickly dispatch an enemy using thier overwhelming skill in that area.
-> Well rounded types like Asuma & Sai have solid skills across the board more or less which makes them good in all situations but they lack that overwhelming skill factor to end a fight quickly. The saying good in alot of things but not really great in anything comes to mind.
I'm sure you have all heard someone say that stats are not powerlevels and you can not say the person with the highest sum wins. This is true but as I explained stats are just one large part of a equation when comparing fighters so lets get to the next part.
2) Intel (secrets)
- Another very important factor in fights is the intel one has on their enemy from learning their secrets. To put it simply in the world of shinobi secrets = power. The reason why shinobi like Sakura spend so much time studying jutsu is not just to master them as thier are limits to some of skills you can master. The point is that many popular jutsu have similarites and in a battlefield you may come across a jutsu that is similar to one you have studied and therefore may be able to find a similar weakness and formulate a plan to deal with it.
Example:
-> In an example where Intel works against you would be Jiraiya vs Pain as Nagato knew a fair amount of Jiraya's jutsu's and style of fighting. Jiraiya on the other hand having left Nagato at a young age did not know the full abilites of the Rinnegan nor the Pain system that Nagato created.
So the whole fight he was playing catch up in the sense of gathering intel even tho he had some of his own secrets. The outcome of the fight was a loss for Jiraya in part because he did not figure out Pains secret in time to formulate a strategy.
-> In an example of how intel can work for you would be how Yamanaka Inoichi (Ino's father) using the intel from Shizume about Pain's black rods to figure out that "the Real One" had to be nearby from his own clans experiance with mind transfer type jutsu's. This amongst other efforts helped Naruto in his battle against Pain.
3) Match-ups
- Aside from overall skills and the intel one has there is also this next factor that deals with how each indivuals skills work against the other. Each ninja has their own unique styles with its perspective strengths and weaknesses.
Here are some quick examples of match-ups...
Example:
-> In and example of a bad match is Deidara's Earth based only jutsu style versus Sasuke's Lightning style. Clearly Deidara was fighting an uphill battle parlty on this bad matchup.
-> In an example of a more even match up we have Sage Naruto vs Pain as Naruto's large stamina and simplicity of fighting style work to his advantage against Pain who also has a large amount of stamina and uses multi-body styled jutsu like Naruto.
4) Power-ups
- This category has some of the hidden X-factor which adds to the overall chance of victory. This includes Bloodline limits as well as Bijuu powers of jinchuuriki as well as any other kind of special powers one may have.
-> This is part of what makes the Uchiha so dangerous as you remeber I said intel is a huge part of adding to chance of victory. The Sharingan allows the user to gather that intel rather quickly in the heat of battle without too much danger to themselves which is what makes it such a powerful power up.
5) Scenario
- This includes the condition under which battle takes place such as factors of enviroment, current health of the individuals and preparedness for battle. This is another X-factor that can effect the outcome of a fight.
Examples:
-> If a long distance type where to be suprised attacked in an enclosed space then thier advantage would be taken from them. Just as an elemental enviroment with say a Water styled ninja fighting an Earth type on a boat far out at sea. Even tho the Earth ninja may technically have the match-up advantage they loose some of it being far out to see away from land where their jutsu would be more useful. Therefore the Water ninja gets the Scenario advantage because the enviroment is in his favor.
-> Orochimaru's bad health when Sasuke atatcked him is another example of this factor as he was already in weakened state giving an advantage to Sasuke.
The Finale & Equation
- Ok know we are nearing the end of this so let me put in the final touches.
The basic formula would be...
Stats +/- Intel +/- Match-ups +/- Power-ups +/- Scenario = Chance of victory
In each category someone may have or loose the advantage and this adds or minus there change of victory as that is what a battle is in the end just a chance of victory or failure.
- In the Stats category its generaly about the gap in skill as in who has the higher level of total skill as this is a major factor in the equation. Someone who has a total of 30 vs another guy at 15 makes a huge gap in skills.
-> People may point out Shikamaru (24) vs Hidan (31.5) however the real trump in that fight was Intel & Scenario. Shikamru had already figured out Hidan's secret and created a plan before hand so it was all scripted.
In a blank slate fight where Shikamaru and Hidan entered with no knowledge of each other Hidan would most likely obliterate him. As during the fight with Asuma, Hidan was able to avoid Shikamru's Shadow sewing and deal with Asuma at the same time.
Hopefully this explanation helps make people see Databook stats as part of a larger factor but one of many in determining the outcome of a fight.
- First let me give a brief explanation of each Databook Stat so everyone is on the same page.
(Nin) Ninjutsu - A ninja's knowledge and skill at performing Ninja techniques
(Tai) Taijutsu - A ninja's Knowledge and skill with hand to hand combat skills
(Gen) Genjutsu - A ninja's knowledge and skill at peroming Illusion techniques
(Int) Intelligence - Measure of cunning overall knowledge and IQ
(Str) Strength - Measure of physical power and body fitness
(Spd) Speed - Measure of swiftness and reaction speed
(Sta) Stamina - Measure amount of stamina which is the base of chakra
(Sea) Seal Knowledge - A ninja's knowledge and skill at perfomring seals
- Of each of these stats a person can recive a number between 0 - 5 that donotes their skill in that area for max total of 40. However for clarification let me explain what those numbers mean.
The easiest way to understand it is to look at the following chart and replace the quotation marks with one of the Stats Nin, Tai, Gen, Sea.
Skill:
Databook numbers mean...
(Note: Of course know Int, Str, Spd, Sta are not measured in skill but in capacity)
0 = No skill in " "
1 = Poor skill in " "
2 = Below Average skill in " "
3 = Average skill in " "
4 = Above Average skill in " "
5 = Extreme skill in " "
- Now when it comes to Nin , Tai & Gen this does not measure the power of jutsu a person uses but the skill at which they use that style of jutsu. Kakashi is known as the most skillful ninja in Konoha because of his skill with ninjutsu not his overwhelming power.
There is a connection between skill and power tho because in order to use S-class jutsu you need a great deal of skill or in the databook at least a 4 or 5 in the Nin , Tai or Gen class.
Lets use Naruto an an example as we got to see his Rasenshuriken from creation to incomplete form to complete. Naruto in at his return to Konoha had a 4 in Ninjutsu showing he had Above average skill in his style of ninjutsu.
So lets look and see the difference in ninja skills...
Example:
-> With a 4 in Ninjutsu Naruto was able to harness an S-class jutsu but it was unstable and while it worked it also caused his hand damage as well as his opponet making its use dangerous and limited to close range.
-> However look at Naruto Post Sage training with possible a 5 in Ninjutsu his mastery of his Rasenshuriken makes the jutsu stable and a mid range to long range jutsu.
The point being the more skill you have the more control you have and possibly the more powerful the jutsu you can create.
Capacity:
- Ok and as far as Capacity stats like Int , Str, Spd, Sta go this is also not exact measure of capacity but more of a range. I qutote an earlier post I made regarding this to save time.
As for you stamina when at level 5 its not a reflection of an exact amount its just means compared to an average shinobi that it it would be classified extreme stamina. Gai , Naruto and Kisame all have 5 in stamina but that doesnt mean they have he exact same amount.
Here would be a rough idea of how stamina is translated:
1 = Poor Stamina
2 = Below Average Stamina
3 = Average Stamina
4 = Above Average Stamina
5 = Extreme Stamina
So in another example if you translated this into the realm of money then someone who makes maybe $30,000 a year is considered average income ( 3 sat). Then also someone who makes $40,000 is also considered average ( 3 stat). Even tho they are not the same number they both fall into the same
range as that is what it is a range. So somone making $250,000 + a year would be seen as wealthy (5 stat).
So you can look at the 1-5 Stamina chart in the same light as it is just a general range.
Totals
- So lets get to the final part of stats that being the cumilative total of stats and measuring that against another person stats. The total sum of a persons stats measure thier overall skill in all areas however in general there are 2 main types when it comes to higher level shinobi which I call Speciality types and Well rounded types.
-> Speciality types like Gai, Kakashi & Kurenai have most of thier skill in a paticular area that gives them an edge in a fight in theory they can quickly dispatch an enemy using thier overwhelming skill in that area.
-> Well rounded types like Asuma & Sai have solid skills across the board more or less which makes them good in all situations but they lack that overwhelming skill factor to end a fight quickly. The saying good in alot of things but not really great in anything comes to mind.
I'm sure you have all heard someone say that stats are not powerlevels and you can not say the person with the highest sum wins. This is true but as I explained stats are just one large part of a equation when comparing fighters so lets get to the next part.
2) Intel (secrets)
- Another very important factor in fights is the intel one has on their enemy from learning their secrets. To put it simply in the world of shinobi secrets = power. The reason why shinobi like Sakura spend so much time studying jutsu is not just to master them as thier are limits to some of skills you can master. The point is that many popular jutsu have similarites and in a battlefield you may come across a jutsu that is similar to one you have studied and therefore may be able to find a similar weakness and formulate a plan to deal with it.
Example:
-> In an example where Intel works against you would be Jiraiya vs Pain as Nagato knew a fair amount of Jiraya's jutsu's and style of fighting. Jiraiya on the other hand having left Nagato at a young age did not know the full abilites of the Rinnegan nor the Pain system that Nagato created.
So the whole fight he was playing catch up in the sense of gathering intel even tho he had some of his own secrets. The outcome of the fight was a loss for Jiraya in part because he did not figure out Pains secret in time to formulate a strategy.
-> In an example of how intel can work for you would be how Yamanaka Inoichi (Ino's father) using the intel from Shizume about Pain's black rods to figure out that "the Real One" had to be nearby from his own clans experiance with mind transfer type jutsu's. This amongst other efforts helped Naruto in his battle against Pain.
3) Match-ups
- Aside from overall skills and the intel one has there is also this next factor that deals with how each indivuals skills work against the other. Each ninja has their own unique styles with its perspective strengths and weaknesses.
Here are some quick examples of match-ups...
Example:
-> In and example of a bad match is Deidara's Earth based only jutsu style versus Sasuke's Lightning style. Clearly Deidara was fighting an uphill battle parlty on this bad matchup.
-> In an example of a more even match up we have Sage Naruto vs Pain as Naruto's large stamina and simplicity of fighting style work to his advantage against Pain who also has a large amount of stamina and uses multi-body styled jutsu like Naruto.
4) Power-ups
- This category has some of the hidden X-factor which adds to the overall chance of victory. This includes Bloodline limits as well as Bijuu powers of jinchuuriki as well as any other kind of special powers one may have.
-> This is part of what makes the Uchiha so dangerous as you remeber I said intel is a huge part of adding to chance of victory. The Sharingan allows the user to gather that intel rather quickly in the heat of battle without too much danger to themselves which is what makes it such a powerful power up.
5) Scenario
- This includes the condition under which battle takes place such as factors of enviroment, current health of the individuals and preparedness for battle. This is another X-factor that can effect the outcome of a fight.
Examples:
-> If a long distance type where to be suprised attacked in an enclosed space then thier advantage would be taken from them. Just as an elemental enviroment with say a Water styled ninja fighting an Earth type on a boat far out at sea. Even tho the Earth ninja may technically have the match-up advantage they loose some of it being far out to see away from land where their jutsu would be more useful. Therefore the Water ninja gets the Scenario advantage because the enviroment is in his favor.
-> Orochimaru's bad health when Sasuke atatcked him is another example of this factor as he was already in weakened state giving an advantage to Sasuke.
The Finale & Equation
- Ok know we are nearing the end of this so let me put in the final touches.
The basic formula would be...
Stats +/- Intel +/- Match-ups +/- Power-ups +/- Scenario = Chance of victory
In each category someone may have or loose the advantage and this adds or minus there change of victory as that is what a battle is in the end just a chance of victory or failure.
- In the Stats category its generaly about the gap in skill as in who has the higher level of total skill as this is a major factor in the equation. Someone who has a total of 30 vs another guy at 15 makes a huge gap in skills.
-> People may point out Shikamaru (24) vs Hidan (31.5) however the real trump in that fight was Intel & Scenario. Shikamru had already figured out Hidan's secret and created a plan before hand so it was all scripted.
In a blank slate fight where Shikamaru and Hidan entered with no knowledge of each other Hidan would most likely obliterate him. As during the fight with Asuma, Hidan was able to avoid Shikamru's Shadow sewing and deal with Asuma at the same time.
Hopefully this explanation helps make people see Databook stats as part of a larger factor but one of many in determining the outcome of a fight.
It's an enhancement technique, which is not allowed when considering a persons base abilities. Think of rock lee who can who use ninjutsu and genjutsu without access to the gates as what a typical shinobi would be considered to be in base mode
Last edited:
new sage of 6 paths
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Oh,but in his base mode,judging by the manga,he's skilled,strong and fast!
fastrthnwind
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He shows moments of decent skill, but he's not phenomenal in any area other than his stamina and ability to use different sized rasengan s.
new sage of 6 paths
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Oh,decent skills you say?
Why did kakashi say naruto had more speed/timing than him?
He's taijutsu is topnotch even in base,you noticed other jounins getting fodderised by deva right?
You saw how he handled someone with a sword,didn't u?
Those feats in base mode are far from decent.
fastrthnwind
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He said at naruto had better timing, meaning that he was able to time his saving moments perfectly.
His taijutsu is slitly better than average. Fighting deva path isn't all that special. Just because he has the rinnegans doesn't mean that Narutos taijutsu is suddenly top notch. Even Hinata held her own against him for a little while before he used Shinra tensei to defeat her.
He had the help of Sai and Sakura to aid him in that battle, one who was also skilled with a short sword as well.
They are feats that any average shinobi could perform.
new sage of 6 paths
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fastrthnwind
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Sure, if you want. L8er dude.
FearxDeath
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I would put him on kage level just because of the insight and strategy he showed during his fight with pain. I dont see Raikage or even Oonoki being able to take on all the paths of pain and yet Naruto did it and came out alive, granted he had some help.
BryanSk8
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Well to be honest Naruto already has the potential to become Hokage even without the help of the 9 tails. Why? Well first of all he did save the village from Pain when not even Tsunade could. He can hold his own against many ninja without the power of the 9-tails. And last but not least he is a village hero and the son of the Fourth so yea after Tsunade dies or something they will most likely give him the title of Hokage.
BryanSk8
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Actually the Raikage could... I mean he's on the same level as Naruto is with 9 tails Chaakra mode. With his speed and strength he could easily beat the pains. Oonoki could as well he has particle style which could disintegrate any pain. Not to mention he can fly and lift 10 ton rocks.
Base Naruto is Jounin level (Kakashi said Naruto surpassed him when he used Rasen shuriken on Kakuza). SM is kage level (used with ma and pa is high kage), KM is above kage and BM is beast haha
Kronnic
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