(DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

[Meowazziel]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Why would an Uchiha want their loved one back as a zombie?

Emotions can release Edo tensei back to the pure world (Naruto world with the living, being the impure world), so bringing their loved ones back would fail. The edo's would be released through strong emotions again, just as happened to Sasori and Sai's bro for example.

So Tobirama inventing it, to bring back the Uchiha loved ones, would fail.

Another danger is when an Edo would turn itself against you, due to someone with Koto amatsukami, releasing Edo's (in case they are not released through strong emotions).

It seems weird to me to have zombies living in your village and zombies who go on missions.

Madara said edo tensei was originally designed to wipe the map clean.
Chiyo knew Edo tensei. Tobirama has used it in war.
Apparently he used it for a different reason than bringing uchiha loved ones back.

I am not saying bringing uchiha loved ones back, cant be one of the reasons, but the manga so far, seems to imply it has been designed for other reasons in the first place and it has shown that it would fail in the ''bringing loved ones back'' department.

So for a large part I dont agree with your theory.

 

[Detective L]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Cool theory.Tobirama knew the Uchiha were emotionally driven so why not use that to his advantage...

 

[DrProof]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Why would an Uchiha want their loved one back as a zombie?

Emotions can release Edo tensei back to the pure world (Naruto world with the living, being the impure world), so bringing their loved ones back would fail. The edo's would be released through strong emotions again, just as happened to Sasori and Sai's bro for example.

So Tobirama inventing it, to bring back the Uchiha loved ones, would fail.

Another danger is when an Edo would turn itself against you, due to someone with Koto amatsukami, releasing Edo's (in case they are not released through strong emotions).

It seems weird to me to have zombies living in your village and zombies who go on missions.

Madara said edo tensei was originally designed to wipe the map clean.
Chiyo knew Edo tensei. Tobirama has used it in war.
Apparently he used it for a different reason than bringing uchiha loved ones back.

I am not saying bringing uchiha loved ones back, cant be one of the reasons, but the manga so far, seems to imply it has been designed for other reasons in the first place and it has shown that it would fail in the ''bringing loved ones back'' department.

So I more or less completely disagree with your theory.

Really? Then why is this possible..

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[YellowFlash1]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Do you see Sasuke currently? He is looking for consoling. I agree that he still lingered hatred however his search for his own resolve is also hope for the Uchiha fallen in darkness. [/FONT]

I do, however his first reaction is a clear indication of the the love that tobimara spoke off.

This is the reason i doubt that he would of brought back the Uchiha. That's like flinging oil on a fire.... Not to mention they would be grieving, and would have unstable emotions with new power.

Doesn't seem logical giving that he has knowledge of their issues.

 

[CharlieBundels]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

So Tsunade just "knew" Obito was immortal when he really wasn't? You're implying that Kishi doesn't give us one sided views when clearly he did in this scan here..

Spoiler

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Do you see Sasuke currently? He is looking for consoling. I agree that he still lingered hatred however his search for his own resolve is also hope for the Uchiha fallen in darkness.

Tsuande is the grand daughter of Hashirama, I think she'd know who Madara is. She never knew it was Obito, but instead called him Madara. She obviously knew Madara was an Uchiha veteran who fought her grandfather a long time ago, so seeing him alive and well must of been a shock. I'd think the guy was immortal, wouldn't you? For a guy who was alive 50-90 years ago...

 

[Draphsin]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Great theory! I agree :y

 

[Meowazziel]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Really? Then why is this possible..

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You refer with this link, to Edo's hanging around with their personality intact and non getting released right? Well I never said they would instantly get released to the pure world, but the danger for their souls to be set free exists, as seen with Sasori and Shin(Sai's bro).

Why the small text btw?

 

[YellowFlash1]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Edo Tensei's effect is everlasting unless it is undone by the user or the host itself. As Proof as was saying, it would reverse the negative mental effects MS has on an Uchiha, therefore based on Sasuke's situation with Itachi with the fight against DSM Kabuto, his theory is (somewhat) backed.

Mind elucidating your point of view a little more?

I'm talking about the Uchiha that are alive...

If a living uchiha was to suffer a great lose, then he would awaken the power. Thus, him being edged on by anger and revenge.

If that person were to see his loved siblings again, he would be fueled with anger and hatred and then try seeking revenge on the one who originally killed him.

Sasuke done exactly this, he showed that he hated Itachi all the way through the manga, and yet the minute he found out that someone done something bad to his brother... He went off the rails, even trying to attack his friends and village.

Madara was brought back with edo tensei and yet he was still continued to have a grudge, meaning that there is proof of them having the ability to reverse their negative emotions. We've only seen them with or without a personality.

But, i believe you are confused what i was trying to say...

 

[DrProof]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Great theory! I agree :y

Thanks.

You refer with this link, to Edo's hanging around with their personality intact and non getting released right? Well I never said they would instantly get released to the pure world, but the danger for their souls to be set free exists, as seen with Sasori and Shin(Sai's bro).

Why the small text btw?

Can you link a scan or two? I want to see the difference..

Oh,and because Garamond is a nice font.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Here's my take:

I believe that Dr. Proof's general theory might be right, but I think maybe we can go a little further. Dr. Proof is saying that Tobirama understood the Uchiha's suffering and undertook to try and remedy it by developing the Edo Tensei.

Reasons to buy this theory:
1- Madara knows the Edo Tensei handsigns which means he's most likely seen Tobirama do it.
2- Tobirama understands that the Uchiha actually do value love, and this insight provides reason for him to develop ET as a jutsu.

Given these reasons I think that perhaps it is safe to assume that Tobirama used the ET to bring back Izuna, which caused Madara to become more hate filled and insane.

Relevant scan:

Spoiler

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Orochimaru (I'm kind of interpreting 2nd hand here) basically mocks Tobirama for fearing Madara and Tobirama tells him that he doesn't know Madara. I think this could be proof that Tobirama had some sort of encounter with Madara, and if Tobirama's ET enraged Madara that would be reason for Tobirama to go out of his way to avoid another Madara from happening (which ironically he is witnessing in Sasuke)

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Here's the scan for Sasuke's feelings after meeting Itachi, this is why I believed that seeing Izuna's Edo would push Madara off the edge.

Flaws:
1- Madara mentioned its purpose in battle
2- Many people have identified the ET from other villages implying it was used in battle between nations or that it was infamous in a way that probably wasn't peaceful.

I kind of would like it if it turned out that Tobirama revived Izuna in order to placate Madara and it drove him into a rampage. It would give people a chance to finally see Izuna, it would parallel Sasuke well, and it matches the classic theme of those looking for peace having their plans blow up in their face.

 

[DrProof]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Here's my take:

I believe that Dr. Proof's general theory might be right, but I think maybe we can go a little further. Dr. Proof is saying that Tobirama understood the Uchiha's suffering and undertook to try and remedy it by developing the Edo Tensei.

Reasons to buy this theory:
1- Madara knows the Edo Tensei handsigns which means he's most likely seen Tobirama do it.
2- Tobirama understands that the Uchiha actually do value love, and this insight provides reason for him to develop ET as a jutsu.

Given these reasons I think that perhaps it is safe to assume that Tobirama used the ET to bring back Izuna, which caused Madara to become more hate filled and insane.

Relevant scan:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru (I'm kind of interpreting 2nd hand here) basically mocks Tobirama for fearing Madara and Tobirama tells him that he doesn't know Madara. I think this could be proof that Tobirama had some sort of encounter with Madara, and if Tobirama's ET enraged Madara that would be reason for Tobirama to go out of his way to avoid another Madara from happening (which ironically he is witnessing in Sasuke)

You must be registered for see images

Here's the scan for Sasuke's feelings after meeting Itachi, this is why I believed that seeing Izuna's Edo would push Madara off the edge.

Flaws:
1- Madara mentioned its purpose in battle
2- Many people have identified the ET from other villages implying it was used in battle between nations or that it was infamous in a way that probably wasn't peaceful.

I kind of would like it if it turned out that Tobirama revived Izuna in order to placate Madara and it drove him into a rampage. It would give people a chance to finally see Izuna, it would parallel Sasuke well, and it matches the classic theme of those looking for peace having their plans blow up in their face.

You summed up a bit further in theory. repped.

 

[Meowazziel]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Can you link a scan or two? I want to see the difference..

Oh,and because Garamond is a nice font.

I find it hard to read due to how small it is .

Ill look for the pages.

Could you reply to the other points of my post as well.
Why would someone want to see their loved one as Edo zombie.
The turning against you part.
The weirdness of zombies on missions.
Chiyo knowing Edo.
(everything with the danger of getting released, which ill get the scans for).

 

[Draphsin]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Here's my take:

I believe that Dr. Proof's general theory might be right, but I think maybe we can go a little further. Dr. Proof is saying that Tobirama understood the Uchiha's suffering and undertook to try and remedy it by developing the Edo Tensei.

Reasons to buy this theory:
1- Madara knows the Edo Tensei handsigns which means he's most likely seen Tobirama do it.
2- Tobirama understands that the Uchiha actually do value love, and this insight provides reason for him to develop ET as a jutsu.

Given these reasons I think that perhaps it is safe to assume that Tobirama used the ET to bring back Izuna, which caused Madara to become more hate filled and insane.

Relevant scan:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru (I'm kind of interpreting 2nd hand here) basically mocks Tobirama for fearing Madara and Tobirama tells him that he doesn't know Madara. I think this could be proof that Tobirama had some sort of encounter with Madara, and if Tobirama's ET enraged Madara that would be reason for Tobirama to go out of his way to avoid another Madara from happening (which ironically he is witnessing in Sasuke)

You must be registered for see images

Here's the scan for Sasuke's feelings after meeting Itachi, this is why I believed that seeing Izuna's Edo would push Madara off the edge.

Flaws:
1- Madara mentioned its purpose in battle
2- Many people have identified the ET from other villages implying it was used in battle between nations or that it was infamous in a way that probably wasn't peaceful.

I kind of would like it if it turned out that Tobirama revived Izuna in order to placate Madara and it drove him into a rampage. It would give people a chance to finally see Izuna, it would parallel Sasuke well, and it matches the classic theme of those looking for peace having their plans blow up in their face.

This makes perfect sense as well. The backfire is probably why tobirama changed it to be a forbidden jutsu

 

[DrProof]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Tsuande is the grand daughter of Hashirama, I think she'd know who Madara is. She never knew it was Obito, but instead called him Madara. She obviously knew Madara was an Uchiha veteran who fought her grandfather a long time ago, so seeing him alive and well must of been a shock. I'd think the guy was immortal, wouldn't you? For a guy who was alive 50-90 years ago...

I see your point.. But still due to your speculation..

 

[BlacLord™]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

As much as I'd like to believe this, why wouldn't he have shown some kind of compassion towards them in the last chapter?

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Tsuande is the grand daughter of Hashirama, I think she'd know who Madara is. She never knew it was Obito, but instead called him Madara. She obviously knew Madara was an Uchiha veteran who fought her grandfather a long time ago, so seeing him alive and well must of been a shock. I'd think the guy was immortal, wouldn't you? For a guy who was alive 50-90 years ago...

The point isn't Tsunade specifically, but that random throwaway hype dialogue is meant to hype and build up something that's about to happen. Tsunade calling Tobi immortal was hyping up the beginning of the war arc. Madara saying the ET was meant to clear the battlefield was just building up the suspense of his meteor tech.

 

[Draphsin]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

As much as I'd like to believe this, why wouldn't he have shown some kind of compassion towards them in the last chapter?

Probably because after izuna's incident, tobirama felt that the uchiha could never be changed

 

[BlacLord™]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Probably because after izuna's incident, tobirama felt that the uchiha could never be changed

Good point.

Rep to you and DP and OH.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Excellent work as always.

 

[Meowazziel]

Re: (DrProof & The Orange Hokage) Uchiha's Relevance To Edo Tensei (Collaboration)

Here are the scans.

Chapter 519 is the chapter that talks about how people their inner feelings can release the technique and shows how Kankuro his words cause Sasori to be released (brilliant chapter btw).
That is why Kabuto had this complete sealing emotions mode as you know, because it would prevent inner feelings to release the technique. Chapter 518 shows Shin (Sai's bro) getting released.
This is a page where Kankuro talks about inner feelings releasing the technique in 519:

Spoiler

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Kabuto understanding that the Edo's their inner feelings, can release them.
It follows right after Sasori is released. It is in chapter 519 too.

Spoiler

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Chapter 521.
Chiyo knowing about Edo tensei.
If Tobirama kept the jutsu for a purpose like reviving loved ones in Konoha only, than she probably wouldnt have known about it I think. She knows about souls who have been bound.

Spoiler

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