Oh, before I forget...we have the Nuke!!!

~WastelandSociety~

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nukes are never meant to fire (except foolish USA used them) its sign of peace because there can be no war between countries having nukes (nuclear bomb) because both know it will end in a draw no matter what

Aye, but we won't be the only "fools" to use it :rolleyes: plus US didn't lose the last time they used it.
Nukes are indeed a weapon that is meant to be fired (that's what they are made for).

Its not a sign of peace, if one were to have a nuke in their hands,then other countries (that don't trust them ) would get worried and keep an extra eye out on them. Thus causing more problems between both countries ,and possibly war.

I did, nothing came up.

Either you misunderstood something or it was propaganda. Though if Ahmadinejad or the Defense Secretary actually claimed Iran had a nuclear weapon on TV it would be all over the news anyway. And if it was propaganda that would becthe stupidest thing they could do as they've been trying to convinxe everyone they aten't trying to make nuclear weapons.

Agree. I haven't heard anything on the news,even on Fox news isn't talking about it.
 
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Anorien16

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Iran..... oh just before they forget: there is practically an International ban against use of Nukes...... also they are not alone to have nukes.

BTW Did anyone heard about their monkey business recently?
 

Aim64C

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nukes are never meant to fire (except foolish USA used them) its sign of peace because there can be no war between countries having nukes (nuclear bomb) because both know it will end in a draw no matter what

*rolls eyes*

At best, Iran succeeded in developing a uranium target-style atomic bomb with a yield of a few kilotons.

And no delivery system.

Honestly, even countries with a nuclear arsenal like China's aren't even worth considering a valid nuclear power. They have, roughly, 30-40 delivery systems capable of striking at the U.S. with strategic-yield (megaton) nuclear weapons. Hurricanes cause more damage than a full nuclear barrage from China would. We could take it. It would be like taking a hurricane that popped up out of nowhere - but we could take it. We could also continue to wage a conventional war on them without a strategic nuclear response.

Doesn't mean the argument we are currently having with them is worth taking it, however. Which is really all nuclear weapons with competent delivery systems manage to accomplish - setting the "worth it" bar higher.

Honestly, if Iran has developed nuclear weapons of any sort, they are far more likely to end up trying to sell them to nations or 'terrorist' organizations (who are not seen as liberation movements or whatever by governments like Iran).
 

kourosh

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how an iranian like me know nth about this and a foreigner do?? So stfu and don't spread fake news!


P.s: if you have any questions just Vm me :|
 

Shirohebi

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how an iranian like me know nth about this and a foreigner do?? So stfu and don't spread fake news!


P.s: if you have any questions just Vm me :|

N74: it's not my fault that you're kilometers away from the nearest tv or that your government hides that s**t your ppl. I watched it on the South America's international tv channel, Telesur. Go to their website and do a search for it. And of course i'll vm you...damn!

Iran..... oh just before they forget: there is practically an International ban against use of Nukes...... also they are not alone to have nukes.

BTW Did anyone heard about their monkey business recently?

The one involving their secret oil exports? Yeah, they were talking about that too, some ppl were saying it's nearly impossible that the new iranian 5th gen warplane, qaher 313, cold be called '5th generation' because their economy was weakened by the embargo U.S and some EU countries had over them. But somehow they not only kept on going doing business, but they also manage to actually increase their economical rate. Awesome!!!
 
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Aim64C

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Yeah, they were talking about that too, some ppl were saying it's nearly impossible that the new iranian 5th gen warplane, qaher 313, cold be called '5th generation' because their economy was weakened by the embargo U.S and some EU countries had over them. But somehow they not only kept on going doing business, but they also manage to actually increase their economical rate. Awesome!!!

The "Gaher 313" is a combination of a full-size display mock-up and the aerial footage is that of an RC aircraft designed to look similar.



This is clear at video markers:

0:25 - The over-chine intakes are too small to support proper air intake. Further, those over-body intakes have been shown to create very powerful and disruptive vortexes that have little to no advantage over under-body or side-body intakes. The canopy is also a very thin construction that would not be present in a flying aircraft design.

0:32 - Judging by the perspective of the man sitting at the edge of the display, this thing is tiny. The wing barely clears his head and it is given a good 20 centimeter raise being on that platform. The wing of an F-22 or F-15, for example, can easily be walked under without ducking. The diameter of the landing gear wheels would seem to be about 15-20 centimeters. That's less than half the diameter of a modern functional fighter aircraft.

By this same comparison - the canopy of this thing is absolutely massive (comprising nearly 90% of the nose). That leaves almost no room for life support and a radar of any kind of power is out of the question.

The gloss finish on the entire thing is nonsensical for an LO design. Matte finishes are used to reduce visibility as well as aid in increasing radar absorption while diffracting returns. They also have a role in reducing IR visibility.

0:55 - There are no braces or hydraulic actuators on the landing gear assembly or the doors that protect their frames. Also absent are access panels for maintenance as well as anything resembling a munitions bay (the underbelly is just a smooth lacquered finish with no sings of having independently moving surfaces).

2:12 - the coating for the areas presumably to be exposed to jet exhaust is the same as that used on the rest of the aircraft.

A photoshop job would have been more convincing (though, admittedly, not as fun as building the mock-up).
 

Shirohebi

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It's really a shame but i have not broadband so i can't watch the vid, but it's ok i watched it on tv. And i have to say it was pretty good and clear. There as even a pilot doing some maneuvers and all. Maybe it's a forgery but...damn....and let me tell you i know about planes. But it could be a hoax, why not. Did you get into
 

Aim64C

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It's really a shame but i have not broadband so i can't watch the vid, but it's ok i watched it on tv. And i have to say it was pretty good and clear. There as even a pilot doing some maneuvers and all. Maybe it's a forgery but...damn....and let me tell you i know about planes. But it could be a hoax, why not. Did you get into

I'm an avionics technician who has studied and worked with military aircraft since the age of five.

I don't know everything about aircraft - but I know enough to spot obvious problems.

All aircraft have fuel testing points. Condensation due to contact with an atmosphere causes water to build up in the tanks and settles. All aircraft have a port that allows fuel to be drained into a jar where it can be tested for water buildup. All fuel tanks must have this feature - in-wing tanks, fuselage tanks, etc.

Even on the F-22, these ports are concealed within access panels (which are not seamless to the point that a gloss finish would show no aberration of glare). There are also multiple panels placed around an aircraft for ground crews to service. The engine must be able to be removed - either from the bottom, top, or out the back. There are fire extinguishers near the cockpit for emergency responders to use, as well as canopy-jettison controls. There are access panels for the hydraulics that operate all of the movable surfaces. Panels exist for wires, fuel lines, electronic components for the avionics, etc.

The skin of an aircraft is often a patchwork of panels. Even the ultra-sleek LO designs have crafty little ways to blend the many rivets and fasteners into the overall surface - but they are still visible on close inspection.

This just looks like a model. Pretty - and an interesting aerodynamic concept - but what they have on display cannot be a functional aircraft. At best it would be a partial-scale wind-tunnel model or radar target model. But the aircraft on display has not flown and I will eat my hat if it could be flown.

Remember, this is the same country that tried to add another vertical stabilizer to the F-5 along with support for Soviet-era weapons and declare it a modern aircraft:

Which, only about two years ago hit squadron strength production numbers:

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Notice the difference between the functional aircraft and the one they proclaim is their new 5th generation aircraft. The F-5 is a small aircraft (much like the one this Gaher thing) with functioning avionics, engines, landing gear, etc. Notice the distance afforded for the radar and antenna in the nose, the fact that metal is used near the exhaust ports of the engine, and how the various bay doors have spars that withdraw into the aircraft to allow the bay doors to meet flush with the surrounding skin.

Speaking of landing gear - the ones on the functional aircraft have multiple support spars as well as lines for the braking systems, lights, etc.

That's Iran's industrial capability.

In a few years, they might be able to take this Gaher design, place a couple engines from an F-5 in it, and have done enough wind-tunnel testing and structure testing to make something that looks like it fly without becoming a smouldering crater.

That still won't make it 5th generation - which would require sophisticated digital radar systems, some advanced LO material design, and cross-aircraft data-linking. The thing is that they could get a few of those systems to work... but getting them to all work together with security and redundancy is expensive, time consuming, and just not practical for Iran.
 

Shinobi Train

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I do not see why anyone would be happy about this...this weapon shouldn't exist, and getting it in the hands of another country is one thing, but an unstable one? o_O I say we cut our losses and glass the area before anything happens. o_O
 

Aim64C

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I do not see why anyone would be happy about this...this weapon shouldn't exist, and getting it in the hands of another country is one thing, but an unstable one? o_O I say we cut our losses and glass the area before anything happens. o_O

That's a bit extreme.

I mean... part of me agrees. I'm tired of dealing with that part of the world and having to hear about the argument. Glass the area, let the people rant and rave about me being a war criminal, and move on to better things without the constant thorn in our sides.

But, by that same line of thinking - there are a lot of other problem spots on the world that we may as well go ahead and glass while we're at it... and before you know it, you're shooting at some of your own cities (or at least areas with in them that have largely been abandoned by law enforcement it's so bad).

And we just don't have enough nukes to get through half of it... which means we'd have to do it again in a few more decades and hear about how horrible we are a second time.
 

Anorien16

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The one involving their secret oil exports? Yeah, they were talking about that too, some ppl were saying it's nearly impossible that the new iranian 5th gen warplane, qaher 313, cold be called '5th generation' because their economy was weakened by the embargo U.S and some EU countries had over them. But somehow they not only kept on going doing business, but they also manage to actually increase their economical rate. Awesome!!!

Not only that I was also referring to the monkey they supposedly launched the space...... the two photographs they presented were two different monkeys.
 

ZK

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That's a bit extreme.

I mean... part of me agrees. I'm tired of dealing with that part of the world and having to hear about the argument. Glass the area, let the people rant and rave about me being a war criminal, and move on to better things without the constant thorn in our sides.

But, by that same line of thinking - there are a lot of other problem spots on the world that we may as well go ahead and glass while we're at it... and before you know it, you're shooting at some of your own cities (or at least areas with in them that have largely been abandoned by law enforcement it's so bad).

And we just don't have enough nukes to get through half of it... which means we'd have to do it again in a few more decades and hear about how horrible we are a second time.

Not to mention that with the MAD principle in effect, you'd have effectively annihilated the entire world, including yourselves, and made your initial attack moot.
 

Aim64C

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Not to mention that with the MAD principle in effect, you'd have effectively annihilated the entire world, including yourselves, and made your initial attack moot.

Most of the countries we have that severe of a problem with do not have nuclear weapons. The few that do have hold-over arsenals from the old NATO and Warsaw Pact arms race days with medium ranged ballistic missiles designed to hit across the Soviet/NATO borders.

We could deal with any nuclear response presented. With the ABM shielding coming online, we could engage countries like China with absolute impunity (they simply don't have the arsenal to overwhelm our ABM network - except for striking at theater targets in the middle east and Pacific - which would be a bloodied nose by comparison to a crushed spine).

"But the rest of the world..."

Would get pissed and impose economic sanctions. In a few cases they may try to shoot down missiles or suspected vehicles of warheads. A few of the more ballsy nations out there with 'positive' relations to the nations we obliterated would try for a couple pot-shots at a carrier battle group or something along those lines. That could be fairly easily swatted away or endured and the nation launching such attacks largely ignored (so long as they can be reasoned with economically).

MAD works both ways (and few countries actually have an arsenal worth pausing over, for us). Say we were to flip a lid and start systematically waging nuclear war on countries like Iran. We are not currently attacking, nor are we giving any indication we desire to attack, say, Germany.

Even if we go cutting a swath through Egypt and down into Africa - no other country or combination of countries would consider it worthwhile to launch a preemptive nuclear strike... because it would guarantee our own strategic response - which would overwhelm their defenses and cripple their more densely populated continent.

They may not agree with what we are doing. They may be entertaining ideas of taking action against us... but it will not go to a strategic nuclear response, because that would guarantee our own.
 

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Most of the countries we have that severe of a problem with do not have nuclear weapons. The few that do have hold-over arsenals from the old NATO and Warsaw Pact arms race days with medium ranged ballistic missiles designed to hit across the Soviet/NATO borders.

We could deal with any nuclear response presented. With the ABM shielding coming online, we could engage countries like China with absolute impunity (they simply don't have the arsenal to overwhelm our ABM network - except for striking at theater targets in the middle east and Pacific - which would be a bloodied nose by comparison to a crushed spine).

"But the rest of the world..."

Would get pissed and impose economic sanctions. In a few cases they may try to shoot down missiles or suspected vehicles of warheads. A few of the more ballsy nations out there with 'positive' relations to the nations we obliterated would try for a couple pot-shots at a carrier battle group or something along those lines. That could be fairly easily swatted away or endured and the nation launching such attacks largely ignored (so long as they can be reasoned with economically).

MAD works both ways (and few countries actually have an arsenal worth pausing over, for us). Say we were to flip a lid and start systematically waging nuclear war on countries like Iran. We are not currently attacking, nor are we giving any indication we desire to attack, say, Germany.

Even if we go cutting a swath through Egypt and down into Africa - no other country or combination of countries would consider it worthwhile to launch a preemptive nuclear strike... because it would guarantee our own strategic response - which would overwhelm their defenses and cripple their more densely populated continent.

They may not agree with what we are doing. They may be entertaining ideas of taking action against us... but it will not go to a strategic nuclear response, because that would guarantee our own.

An interesting point.
Your ABM network and general counter-attack would definitely stop any counter-attack from reaching the United States. I completely agree with this. Russia's nuclear arsenal is an artifact from the Cold War and a Nation like CHina simply doesn't have enough missiles to overwhelm the gigantic American arsenal.
I am, however, talking about the European response.
While your counter-missiles and missiles may not be targeting Europe directly, most of the missiles you detonate in mid-air to avoid them reaching the United States will be hit over the Atlantic or somewhere in the East Baltics and Western Russia. In both instances, the Atlantic current in the west and the winds in the East will lead to nuclear winters in Europe. I'm not talking about a particularly cold night in Oslo, I'm talking about the radioactive fallout that follows a mid-air detonation.
Your war with China would cripple Europe for generations to come, should it become reality.
If it should come to a full-scale attack by China and a full response by the United States, then you can bet your ass that both France, Germany and the United Kingdoms will fire their own weapons, not as an agressive force, but to detonate your missiles as far away from Europe as possible.

By the way; should it come to the point where China fires its missiles and the United States responds, then I'm pretty sure a nation like Israel will see their chance to settle some old debts.
Really, an agressive nuclear attack from any nation in the world would have catastrophic consequences for the entire world.
 

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Now I'm jealous - I wish I had a nuke, at least a miniature one.
 

Aim64C

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I am, however, talking about the European response.
While your counter-missiles and missiles may not be targeting Europe directly, most of the missiles you detonate in mid-air to avoid them reaching the United States will be hit over the Atlantic or somewhere in the East Baltics and Western Russia.

Anti-Ballistic Missiles have existed for some time. Systems like the Nike Zeus were developed for two purposes - to swat down entire Soviet bomber formations, and to vaporize re-entry vehicles. Those solutions, however, were nuclear - and the prospect of fallout was not at all a pleasant one.

What many people don't understand is that missiles rarely actually strike their target. The equipment necessary to guide a missile into a maneuvering target like an aircraft is just not cost effective. Instead, missiles are equipped with area-effect warheads - 'claymore mines' - if you will. The objective of the missile is then merely to make sure that the target flies into the kill-zone before it detonates - sending shrapnel and other nasty things into it.

Amping it up to a nuclear warhead was just because you were trying to hit a target that was just that much harder to hit... or you had targets across a much larger area (the Aim-54 Phoenix Missile could be equipped with a nuclear warhead for carrier defense operations... the idea being that a single missile could eliminate entire flights of aircraft... it was the counter to soviet zerg-rush tactics).

But what is unique about the modern ABM shield is that it actually strikes the target. Let me back up a bit and explain why this is necessary.

A normal missile -can- destroy an incoming re-entry vehicle. RIM-66/RIM-156 SM2 surface-to-air missiles can be given firmware updates that allow them to intercept re-entry vehicles. It has a low probability of success... but it's better than nothing. The low probability of success is due to the speeds involved, and also due to the nature of the warheads - which are designed to damage critical systems all across an aircraft - not bust up a vehicle designed to carry a nuclear warhead through re-entry. Damaging the re-entry vehicle and sending it off-course is the most likely result... but that doesn't do much to guarantee that Marvin Martian is asking where the Kaboom is supposed to be.

Which is the objective.

So, we have to hit the re-entry vehicle with something solid enough to destroy it and separate the components of the bomb so that there is no chance of detonation. This requires powerful radar systems from land, sea, or air assets as well as sophisticated and fast processing on behalf of the missile. Since we are, basically, trying to throw a telephone pole into an object the size of a basketball traveling at 24 times the speed of sound and 'jiggling' through various layers of atmosphere. From 100 miles away.

In both instances, the Atlantic current in the west and the winds in the East will lead to nuclear winters in Europe.

Nuclear winter - the idea that enough fallout can block out enough sunlight to trigger dramatic climate shift - was an idea popularized by the media and has been reinforced as fact via dogmatic principle, alone. None of the research done suggests that nuclear winter is at all a realistic proposition.

But it's moot - since there will be no detonation of the intercepted missiles.

I'm not talking about a particularly cold night in Oslo, I'm talking about the radioactive fallout that follows a mid-air detonation.

Radioactive fallout and nuclear winter are two different things.

Radioactive fallout is triggered by two things - first, it is unspent portions of the bomb - uranium, plutonium - whatever. Second is byproducts of the fission process - this usually includes things like cesium 141. Cesium 141 is of particular concern because it is chemically similar to potassium and will replace it in many organic processes (even though it is a radioactive isotope). This can cause crops grown in those areas to have substantially higher levels of radioactivity when compared to the background.

The threat of nuclear winter, as I said above, is mostly cultural mythology. The vast majority of the classic 'mushroom cloud' is precisely that - a cloud. It's super-heated water vapor. While there is temporary occlusion of the sun - even subterranean bursts do not throw enough solid material into the atmosphere to "blot out the sun" for any substantial length of time. No matter how many nuclear weapons you set off.

Your war with China would cripple Europe for generations to come, should it become reality.
If it should come to a full-scale attack by China and a full response by the United States, then you can bet your ass that both France, Germany and the United Kingdoms will fire their own weapons, not as an agressive force, but to detonate your missiles as far away from Europe as possible.

That's not how ICBMs work. They are only useful against strategic land targets. They are not even remotely capable of being used in the anti-ballistic-missile role.

I mean... I could come up with a few creative ways to -possibly- use them... but it would require Itachi-level foresight and it would have to come down to a few specific conditions. Even then - it would be kind of moot as you would be launching your own 5 megaton warhead to blow up another 5 megaton warhead.

You would be better off trying to use cruise missiles with tactical nuclear warheads... or just welding those warheads to the rockets we use to send satellites into orbit and try to take down some missiles during their orbital phase.

Not that it would matter. Most of our missiles would be going over the Pacific, not the Atlantic.

By the way; should it come to the point where China fires its missiles and the United States responds, then I'm pretty sure a nation like Israel will see their chance to settle some old debts.



If they, somehow, had 400 nuclear warheads, they are almost all tactical yield and not strategic. The difference between tactical and strategic yield is two to three orders of magnitude. A tactical yield weapon may be 25 kilotons (takes out a few city blocks and scares the **** out of people). A strategic yield weapon is hundreds of kilotons to a few dozen megatons (thousands of kilotons) and crushes entire city districts (theoretically, at least).

If they do anything - it's wipe out pains in the ass like Iran. Israel can be manipulative and a little difficult to work with at times... but at least they can be worked with.

Really, an agressive nuclear attack from any nation in the world would have catastrophic consequences for the entire world.

The largest threat would be that people would believe it to be the end times and there would be mass rioting for no reason. That's really about it.

We have been raised on dogmatic lies that our nuclear weapons have the power to destroy the planet - that a single nuclear bomb can wipe out a city... all of these things are factually incorrect. Nuclear weapons are, simply, very very big explosions with some particularly nasty residues left behind.

The only reason any nuclear war (even a full exchange between every nation on the planet) -COULD- be the "end of the world" is if people act stupid about things. The damage that could be done is quite high - but many areas would survive and people could work around the destroyed areas to stitch things back together.

We've just been raised to fear the things so much that the fear they instill is actually greater than the actual damage they can do.
 
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edo tensai wilmaso

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all i know is that if US gets attacked then it's because they let it happen.
 
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