itachi>nagato

[Lilt]

That was not Nagato. It was Nagato controlled by Kabuto.

Big difference.

Yeah, it made Nagato's tactics A LOT better than they were against Jiriaya and Naruto (twice.)

Kabuto's a much greater genius, after all.

Instead of giving Jiriaya time enter Sage Mode.

Or allowing Sage Naruto to rip through his jutsu with basic feints.

Or sitting on a bird while Naruto dicked around with the dog summon...

Kabuto used masterful strategies to quickly decimate a much stronger Naruto and Bee.

-

And let's not pretend that Nagato's jutsu were negatively effected.

Naruto said Nagato jutsu were much stronger and faster AFTER Kabuto controlled him.

Not before. Not with Pain.

So, basically, Kabuto just made Nagato smarter, and immune to genjutsu.

Chibaku Tensei
/thread

Totsuka/Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/feint

/thread

 

[OmegaRed721]

The Itachi vs Nagato threads will go on forever. At least until Sasuke releases his soul from the Totsuka gourd, if that ever happens. And it probably will.

 

[HadouKage]

Yeah, it made Nagato's tactics A LOT better than they were against Jiriaya and Naruto (twice.)

Kabuto's a much greater genius, after all.

Instead of giving Jiriaya time enter Sage Mode.

Or allowing Sage Naruto to rip through his jutsu with basic feints.

Or sitting on a bird while Naruto dicked around with the dog summon...

Kabuto used masterful strategies to quickly decimate a much stronger Naruto and Bee.

-

And let's not pretend that Nagato's jutsu were negatively effected.

Naruto said Nagato jutsu were much stronger and faster AFTER Kabuto controlled him.

Not before. Not with Pain.

So, basically, Kabuto just made Nagato smarter, and immune to genjutsu.



Totsuka/Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/feint

/thread

Tell me how Itachi stops Chibaku Tensei?

 

[Lilt]

Tell me how Itachi stops Chibaku Tensei?

By hitting the orb before it gathers protective layers of rock. (with Amaterasu, Totsuka, Magatama.)

Or using Susano'o until the jutsu is complete, then Izanagi. Then ambush Nagato.

The anime interpretation supported mine. That is,

1. The combined power of the three attacks was more than enough (not barely enough.)

2. Nagato even preparing the attack took some PNJ. There was a lot of standing around.

3. Itachi's best jutsu were equal show-stoppers; Nagato merely got off the first shot for entertainment-sake.

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

The anime makes it clear that Nagato had PLENTY of PNJ help.

He regenerated from Amaterasu while nobody sealed him.

I don't think you read the same chapter as me? We are talking about the Nagato that could have Preta Path'd Amaterasu (if he was controlling himself), and the Nagato that could of used Asura Path to sprout new mechanical legs, not to mention Kabuto didn't know he was a sensor at all, and he (if not being controlled) would have sensed Susano'o being put up by Itachi in his surprise stab

By hitting the orb before it gathers protective layers of rock. (with Amaterasu, Totsuka, Magatama.)

The anime interpretation supported mine. That is,

1. The combined power of the three attacks was more than enough (not barely enough.)

3. Itachi's best jutsu were equal show-stoppers; Nagato merely got off the first shot for entertainment-sake.

Tell me where you got your assumption for #1 from, it showed nothing to support that, and 3 attacks would not hit at the same time, but different times, so needed all 3 attacks to destroy the core

Itachi's jutsu weren't equal show stoppers at all, had Bee and Naruto not been there CT would have ended it, and if Nagato would of been in control of his own actions, he would of sensed Susano'o, used Preta on Amaterasu, etc.

 

[Bogard]

Unless your a fanboy like Lilt, the answer is obvious

 

[Edo Odin]

He calls it his power/genjutsu on several occasions.

Anyway, people whining about Nagato being controlled aren't taking into consideration:

• Kabuto's tactics are better than aything Nagato has ever done (with or without Pain.)
• Being a blank slate protected him from genjutsu
• When Itachi's best jutsu came out, Nagato's reactions stood no chance.

Basically, the anime eliminated some damage-control reasoning. But not all of it.

Kabuto's prowess with the Rinnegan was much worse than what Nagato himself could have done, Kabuto didn't even fully know the power of the Rinnegan

He counters all visual Genjutsu either way, with sensory abilities.

He could easily have avoided that, if it hadn't been for that cloud of smoke hiding Itachi and his intentions.

Please tell me you don't actually consider Itachi to be above Nagato...From what I've seen from you, I'd have thought you were more logical than that.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Nagato>Itachi get over it.

 

[Lilt]

Unless your a fanboy like Lilt, the answer is obvious

I don't take reading-advice from people that haven't mastered elementary grammar.

Kabuto's prowess with the Rinnegan was much worse than what Nagato himself could have done, Kabuto didn't even fully know the power of the Rinnegan

Based on... Naruto saying Nagato was stronger than ever?

Based on Kabuto using Chibaku Tensei? Or on using effective strategies that Nagato never did?

He counters all visual Genjutsu either way, with sensory abilities.

As Jiraiya said against Pain: sensory abilities (aside from perfect SM) aren't an equal replacement for vision.

He could easily have avoided that, if it hadn't been for that cloud of smoke hiding Itachi and his intentions.

The smoke cloud was still 20-30 meters away. The anime makes obvious what was already obvious: it's too fast.

Please tell me you don't actually consider Itachi to be above Nagato...From what I've seen from you, I'd have thought you were more logical than that.

Itachi being above Nagato is the logical conclusion.

 

[Bogard]

I don't take reading-advice from people that haven't mastered elementary grammar.

Thanks for talking about my grammar when you must know that English isn't my first language, but the fact remain that only a fanboy like you can disagree with this

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

I don't take reading-advice from people that haven't mastered elementary grammar.

Based on... Naruto saying Nagato was stronger than ever?

Based on Kabuto using Chibaku Tensei? Or on using effective strategies that Nagato never did?

The smoke cloud was still 20-30 meters away. The anime makes obvious what was already obvious: it's too fast.

Itachi being above Nagato is the logical conclusion.

- Stronger than ever, connecting to the point of his jutsu's being in another league from the Pains, if you deny Kabuto is not even close to Nagato's skill with his own body I'm gonna stop responding right now, I don't believe for a second you think that honestly

- Anime isn't canon and anything seen there can't be taken for fact. If Nagato was in his own body he would of sensed Itachi putting up Susano'o (huge amount of chakra released) and reacted, Kabuto didn't even know Nagato was a sensor

- No.

 

[Edo Odin]

Based on... Naruto saying Nagato was stronger than ever?

Based on Kabuto using Chibaku Tensei? Or on using effective strategies that Nagato never did?



As Jiraiya said against Pain: sensory abilities (aside from perfect SM) aren't an equal replacement for vision.



The smoke cloud was still 20-30 meters away. The anime makes obvious what was already obvious: it's too fast.



Itachi being above Nagato is the logical conclusion.

Based on Nagato having had the Rinnegan for years while Nagato only had a bit of info on it.. :| It should be blatantly obvious that Nagato is better with it than Kabuto.

They still counter the visual Genjutsu.

The anime is not legit proof...And even if it was, Nagato should have seen through it, since the Rinnegan sees chakra. A testament of PnJ not only having been on his side...

Huh, it seems I was wrong.

 

[Lilt]

Based on Nagato having had the Rinnegan for years while Nagato only had a bit of info on it.. :| It should be blatantly obvious that Nagato is better with it than Kabuto.

We have different understandings of Edo Tensei control.

The bodies use the skill with their learned proficiency.

Kabuto didn't "master" the Raikage's cloak and nukite. He controlled the Raikage into using them with Raikage-proficiency.

Similarly, Orochimaru praised a completely-controlled Tobirama for his water-shield.

Even though they're being completely controlled, they use their jutsu with equal proficiency.

This is something, I feel, everybody should have realized, which is quite frustrating.

They still counter the visual Genjutsu.

At the cost of a sub-vision handicap, making evadin attacks much harder.

The anime is not legit proof...And even if it was, Nagato should have seen through it, since the Rinnegan sees chakra. A testament of PnJ not only having been on his side...

If you recall, the Rinnegan has been unable to see through smoke several times before.

Naruto, Fukasaku, Shima, Itachi, etc. all successfully exploited that weakness.

So, no, not PNJ. Just a shortcoming in the eyes.

And as I said, the smoke was pretty far in the distance.

Meaning that the blade was visible for a long distance before hitting Nagato.

Thus it was a matter of speed, not visibility.

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

If you read carefully, you'd know that the Rinnegan has been unable to see through smoke several times before.

So, no, not PNJ. Just a shortcoming in the eyes.

If you read carefully, you'd know Nagato was an extremely talented sensor and would easily sense an amount of chakra needed to bring out Susano'o from 30 yards or so away. You'd also know that Kabuto coincidentally didn't know Nagato was a sensor. Yeah, no PnJ there.

You keep talking about PnJ but refuse to say PnJ was also against Nagato, i.e. why not Asura Path himself some legs?

 

[Ƒālconer]

>>>>Idiot

 

[Retsu]

Nagato was controlled, to say kabuto was better is just biased speculation, Nagato himself was unwilling to fight which is why kabuto took control, but Nagato sensed the pressure build up of amaterasu and warned naruto, were this he case in battle nagato could have responded in a multitude of ways, it's all ready well known that kabuto's edo tensei is considered better than orochimaru's version because ppl retained some of their personality enough to use their own strategies, but only if they were willing, otherwise their body just went on auto pilot.

 

[enditallsin]

Itachi has full control of his body,he doesn't have his illness anymore,he has assistance from to kage level jins(who were the best distractions since they were the primary targets in the fist place) ,he has infinite chakra plus regeneration,and he needed all that to get a cheap shot on a dude who wasn't even trying to get him,who also has regeneration but and infinite chakra, but hes being controlled (and if kabuto knew of nagatos ability to sense chakra he would have never took control of his mind)and whos crippled, take away all those handicaps and nagato would have completely eaten itachi no contest,no difficulty.

 

[Lilt]

If you read carefully, you'd know Nagato was an extremely talented sensor and would easily sense an amount of chakra needed to bring out Susano'o from 30 yards or so away You'd also know that Kabuto coincidentally didn't know Nagato was a sensor. Yeah, no PnJ there.

As I just explained, Edo Tensei full-control does not inhibit natural ability (e.g. Tobirama, Raikage, etc.)

Itachi, however, can and has (frequently) cloaked his chakra for surprise assaults. Most notably against Sage Kabuto.


So yeah. No PNJ.

You keep talking about PnJ but refuse to say PnJ was also against Nagato, i.e. why not Asura Path himself some legs?

Nagato could move. Reread the chapter. He straight-blitzed Killer Bee after pushing him.

What Kabuto was saying was that Nagato didn't have learned skill to move as skillfully as other elites.

Clumsily using Asura-Path would not have solved that issue of learned skill.

This is, by the way, exactly the sort of detail I'm referring to when I say people overlook enormous info.

And then criticize my (superior) analyses lol.

-

Similarly, one can effectively argue that Nagato is simply unintelligent relative to Kabuto.

In life, he never restored himself with Preta.

He never augmented himself with Asura.

Etc.

 

[OmegaRed721]

I completely forgot about how Nagato can sense chakra that would make him a winner imo

 

[Thee Beyonder]

I agree