Old Hiruzen vs 3T Kakashi

[Kages]

Distance: 100 meters

Resrictions: Kamui and MS techniques and RDS

Location: Forest

Intel: None


Who wins?

 

[ItachiStyle]

Sorry, so in this fight, you are taking away Kakashi's best ability... if you need to gimp Kakashi for the fight, then it's obvious who is really stronger.

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

Hiruzen low- mid diff.

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

MS Kakashi vs. Hiruzen would be more interesting.

In this matchup Hiruzen stomps him low-mid diff.

 

[Kages]

Sorry, so in this fight, you are taking away Kakashi's best ability... if you need to gimp Kakashi for the fight, then it's obvious who is really stronger.

Hiruzen is stronger even with Kamui, I just took Kamui away because I felt like it. You know I took away Hiruzen's best ability too- RDS :sy:

 

[KidGamer65]

Hiruzen is stronger even with Kamui, I just took Kamui away because I felt like it. You know I took away Hiruzen's best ability too- RDS :sy:

Wrong, Hiruzen can't dodge or tell when Kamui is coming so MS Kakashi takes Hiruzen out with Kamui.

Actually I'm inclined to say Kakashi wins.

 

[Kages]

Wrong, Hiruzen can't dodge or tell when Kamui is coming so MS Kakashi takes Hiruzen out with Kamui.

Without it he loses.

Well that's debatable but this is not the thread for that :y

 

[ItachiStyle]

It's not debatable at all... with Kamui Kakashi stomps effortlessly. Even without it, his feats are better than Hiruzen... but Hiruzen has a decent argument based on rep (though not on stuff we actually saw). Even with rep though, Kamui Kakashi ends him.

 

[Bogard]

Old Hiruzen would lose. Hiruzen is a katon and doton user and even in doton jutsu, Kakashi has better feats. The sole doton jutsu that Hiruzen has demonstrated has been replicated by Kakashi later along with other doton jutsus. Leaves his katon jutsu then, that can be countered by Kakashi's suiton, and depending on the location, he has a huge advantage with the water dragon or vortex for example. If needed Hiruzen ninjutsu could even be copied. I assume Hiruzen has counters for genjutsus judging by his note in databook and his great experience with Uchihas and village, other jutsus, etc

In speed department Kakashi is probably a tier above him judging by their respective databook. Hiruzen has better taijutsu though especially when he uses it in combo with his summoning jutsu said to be harder than Diamond(Enma). Kakashi on the other side, has also raiton jutsus that would be difficult for Hiruzen to counter. Both are clone users, but because of the age, Hiruzen's stamina reduces greatly. I would say Kakashi would take this mid-high difficulty. Prime Hiruzen would win though

 

[Kages]

It's not debatable at all... with Kamui Kakashi stomps effortlessly. Even without it, his feats are better than Hiruzen... but Hiruzen has a decent argument based on rep (though not on stuff we actually saw). Even with rep though, Kamui Kakashi ends him.

Kakashi can't stomp Hiruzen effortlessly, don't get me started on how Hiruzen beat Hashirama and Tobirama.

Old Hiruzen would lose. Hiruzen is a katon and doton user and even in doton jutsu, Kakashi has better feats. The sole doton jutsu that Hiruzen has demonstrated has been replicated by Kakashi later along with other doton jutsus. Leaves his katon jutsu then, that can be countered by Kakashi's suiton, and depending on the location, he has a huge advantage with the water dragon or vortex for example. If needed Hiruzen ninjutsu could even be copied. I assume Hiruzen has counters for genjutsus judging by his note in databook and his great experience with Uchihas and village, other jutsus, etc

In speed department Kakashi is probably a tier above him judging by their respective databook. Hiruzen has better taijutsu though especially when he uses it in combo with his summoning jutsu said to be harder than Diamond(Enma). Kakashi on the other side, has also raiton jutsus that would be difficult for Hiruzen to counter. Both are clone users, but because of the age, Hiruzen's stamina reduces greatly. I would say Kakashi would take this mid-high difficulty. Prime Hiruzen would win though

Well explained.

 

[ItachiStyle]

You've been owned every which way in arguments about Kamui and Hiruzen fighting the Edo's and Oro (while not trying and standing around "toying" with him), and you just ignore the replies you get. Everyone has your number at this point. In any fight against a Kage, you will back the Kage's (especially the Hokage's, who you worship unconditionally). I've seen you try to hype Hiruzen in fights on this board using criteria like "he was a better leader", "he was more inspirational", "he was a better teacher", "his will of fire was greater", etc. How will being a better teacher help Hiruzen when his head if Kamui'd off the moment the fight starts? That question answers itself to most people, but not you unfortunately, because you are incapable of ever siding against your beloved Hokage.

 

[Kages]

You've been owned every which way in arguments about Kamui and Hiruzen fighting the Edo's and Oro (while not trying and standing around "toying" with him), and you just ignore the replies you get. Everyone has your number at this point. In any fight against a Kage, you will back the Kage's (especially the Hokage's, who you worship unconditionally). I've seen you try to hype Hiruzen in fights on this board using criteria like "he was a better leader", "he was more inspirational", "he was a better teacher", "his will of fire was greater", etc. How will being a better teacher help Hiruzen when his head if Kamui'd off the moment the fight starts? That question answers itself to most people, but not you unfortunately, because you are incapable of ever siding against your beloved Hokage.

I've never ever debated Kakashi vs Hiruzen. I never said that just because he is a better teacher that he was stronger than someone either. I guess Kakashi just Kamui's the So6p head off right from the start huh?

 

[ItachiStyle]

Firstly, I've explained the no limit fallacy to you before. Secondly, many people misunderstand that some characters have work arounds for techniques. For instance, some characters can stop Kamui via their own Space Time techs, some can stop it because they are faster than Kakashi, some can stop it because they have their own one shot moves, or special techs that stop it. Kamui doesn't beat anyone, but it's an incredible tech, so you need a work around.

Strength is also based on more than 1 on 1 fights (though they are a useful indicator too).

The no limit fallacy protects the Sage, and even if it didn't he's got the Rinnegan that can absorb any ninjutsu tech. Hiruzen hasn't shown or hinted he has a counter, and we can't just give him one because you are a Hiruzen fanboy.

 

[Kages]

Firstly, I've explained the no limit fallacy to you before. Secondly, many people misunderstand that some characters have work arounds for techniques. For instance, some characters can stop Kamui via their own Space Time techs, some can stop it because they are faster than Kakashi, some can stop it because they have their own one shot moves, or special techs that stop it. Kamui doesn't beat anyone, but it's an incredible tech, so you need a work around.

Strength is also based on more than 1 on 1 fights (though they are a useful indicator too).

The no limit fallacy protects the Sage, and even if it didn't he's got the Rinnegan that can absorb any ninjutsu tech. Hiruzen hasn't shown or hinted he has a counter, and we can't just give him one because you are a Hiruzen fanboy.

I'm not a Hiruzen "fanboy", I'm a Hiruzen fan. So6p has shown no whatsoever counter to Kamui, he can't suck it up with Preta because it's not a Ninjutsu that can be sucked up.

 

[ItachiStyle]

1) What you just wrote, about the Rinnegan being unable to suck up Kamui, is completely made up on your part. So far the Rinnegan can suck up any ninjutsu, which is why ninjutsu is useless against Rinnegan users.
2) As I explained in another thread, regarding Koto:

The "no limit fallacy" protects people like the Sage. It's like me saying "Joey the mutant in X-men can turn a person into a table... so he can beat Galactus by turning him into a table". It doesn't work like that. Joey has to have demonstrated he can turn someone as powerful as Galactus into a table, or he encounters the no limit fallacy. The Sage is depicted as a god like being, able to create the tailed beasts and the moon, to serve as host of the 10 tails, etc, etc. Koto has never shown it can affect anyone that powerful, so we can't grant it that sort of ability.

Plus, ranking isn't determined by 1 on 1 fights only, it's about power. Danzo can beat Oro by looking at him (and gain control of all his Edo's), but it doesn't necessarily mean Danzo is more powerful than Oro (though they're in a similar tier).

 

[Kages]

1) What you just wrote, about the Rinnegan being unable to suck up Kamui, is completely made up on your part. So far the Rinnegan can suck up any ninjutsu, which is why ninjutsu is useless against Rinnegan users.
2) As I explained in another thread, regarding Koto:

I don't understand how Rinnegan can suck up Kamui, please inform me. It can't suck up something that's trying to suck it up.

 

[ItachiStyle]

Kamui is very fast, but it's still a ninjutsu tech, and we've seen what it looks like back when Kakashi wasn't as good at using it (v.s Deidara). We've also seen him use it against the Gedo. It's an actual tech, and someone using the Rinnegan who is fast enough can suck it up. I have no problem assuming the fricking Sage of the 6 paths is fast enough, even ignoring the no limit fallacy for Kamui's feats.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Hiruzen has no speed feats. Remember that.

 

[Unorthodox]

Hiruzen is stronger even with Kamui, I just took Kamui away because I felt like it. You know I took away Hiruzen's best ability too- RDS :sy:

your just a hiruzen troll fanboy

 

[Joki]

Obviously Kakashi, he stomps pretty low difficulty probably without any sharingan at all. By powerscaling though Hiruzen craps on Kakashi effortlessly with no trouble whatsoever.