Danzo vs tsunade

[Tazzilla88]

HA! hype is overrated knight now watch this KO



good point, however you base your argument solely on his izanagi

Like i said and kidgamer said, he may not even have to use izanagi and ill tell you why. By using wind release stream as an devensive mechanism, he can create dust clouds to conceal his movements and hide his presence, ultimately giving him time for his next movement.

Scenario one: it could give him time to take of the gauntlet, letting him take it off and have full use of izanagi

Scenario two: he can use this as a deversion and then cast another fuuton jutsu such as Vaccum serial waves to crust both shizune and tsunade (of course it doesnt kill her but this will crush her if not split her in half as it is strong enough to peirce through saukes complete susano'o) also before he does this technique he can summon baku to enhance he fuuton style thus destroying shizune for definate.

After the devistating blow, IF he needs to he will have time to take off the brace and use izanagi. this also gives him more variety of wind blade techniques

The realness of it is katsuya can actually be taken care of although not actually killed in this fight, Baku sucks katsuya inside ripping katsuya into multiple slugs, yes he has the acid to worry about but quickly blowing katsuya out to a far away distance will buy danzo and baku some time, hell he could even suck in tsunade and rip her to shreads (katsuya is a slug peopel seem to forget her speed is incredibly slow). Im sure the process to putting back tsunades body takes quite a long time, it process cant be instant.

It also takes hand seals to summon katsuya where by in this time danzo can attack tsunade to preventing her from doing so. Since she is based on close ranged fighting she is at a disadvantage. As we have seen tsunades movements are not as fast as sasuke MS in which danzo was figthing, so dodging her attacks will be easy to evade although fatal IF she hits him, While hes dodging her can cast fuuton jutsu from his mouth to keep her at bay. If she (Tsunade is sliced in half) it takes her even longer to move or summon hence giving danzo and baku the upper hand.

You also forget that Tsunade has no knowledge of danzos abilities where as Tsunades abilities are infamous hence the name (slug princess) her strength is also well known so danzo can use this knowledge to his advantage and evade the necessary attacks. If she has no intel on his abilities then this will prove harder for her to fight.

To start things off, we have no reason to necessarily believe Danzo can quickly form handseals when the seal is on his arm. In fact it is doubtful that he can do such a thing considering the seals are metal, they would drastically weigh down his arm. And judging from the picture

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It would seem as though that arm is so cumbersome that Danzo needs to assist getting it out of the sling with his other arm. Why is this relevant that would drastically reduce the effectiveness of defense maneuvers made with that arm. In that Tsunade was less than a second away from blitzing Orochimaru and Kabuto they managed to get out the way just in time.

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Now if either had tried to use jutsu when she was attacking they would have been smashed. Now imagine Danzo trying to use such to counter Tsunade's blitz with a wind jutsu when he's having trouble moving one of his arms.
Also in the environment that this fight is located in there is not an abundance of dust so the cloud created should be thin enough for partial visibility. Also the gauntlet took a pretty decent amount of combat time.

Now the Baku argument is not so different than the Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei arguments I often hear. Thus I will address them in a similar manner. If Baku sucks Katsuyu or Tsunade towards himself, then the innate problem is that he is also increasing Katsuyu's or Tsunade's mass and acceleration.What is the problem in doing that? Force is equal to mass times acceleration. Essentially, he is making Tsunade's strikes stronger in that instant, and making Katsuyu a lot heavier when she is already quite heavy. All Tsunade would need to do is to pull her arm back and prepare to punch and punch when she is within range. Katsuyu may very well badly injure Baku when she comes into contact with him. As Baku is increasing the mass of any object flying towards himshe can throw a projectile at Baku resulting in great damage, and Katsuyu can spit acid which would lead to him either receiving acid all over his face or swallowing acid which may very well kill Baku.
Tsunade has shown that she can direct chakra to her feet to avoid the gravitational repulsion and attraction abilities of Deva Path, the same then would be applicable of Baku's suction. But the additional problem that comes with Baku's suction is a problem similar to the one faced by Deva Path with his Chibaku Tensei, and that is Danzo cannot afford to be as close to Baku as he would want Tsunade to be otherwise he risks being sucked up himself. Tsunade's primary fighting style however would keep her close to Danzo. Katsuyu innately has more traction than most other summons because of her slime which allows her to stick to surfaces. Meaning, that to push Katsuyu away it will take considerably more force. So sucking Katsuyu up was a rather bad plan of attack, as is trying to suck up Tsunade.
Now you've said summoning katsuyu takes time, which is true but considering how fast Tsunade can form seals

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I doubt Tsunade finding time to summon Katsuyu will be a big issue, the bigger issue is how will Danzo form handseals with the cumbersome seal on his arm.
If I remember correctly Danzo didn't do much dodging at all in the fight against Sasuke, and Sasuke was inside of Susanoo for a lot of the fight so I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Beyond that you not only have to worry about the initial damage caused by one of Tsunade's strikes but the effects of said strike. In fact against Kabuto and Orochimaru she didn't always attack them directly, she used shockwaves that were a result of her strength to serve as an attack.

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You also state that Katsuyu as a slug is slow but the manga disagrees with this point. We also know that Katsuyu can completely envelop people quickly even without their permission. So yes, Katsuyu is evidently quick as she is was able to get into the room and envelop people without them noticing.

Spoiler

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And Katsuyu moved from directly next to Manda, to behind Gamabunta before Jiraiya launched his katon.

Spoiler

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And Katsuyu apparently left the hokage mansion and quickly spread through the town in one panel.

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Finally Tsunade should have ample knowledge of Danzo, having been present during the height of his rivalry with Hiruzen, not to mention that as hokage she would have access to all of Danzo's files. Whereas, while it is common knowledge of Katsuyu, and Tsunade's prowess in taijutsu and her being the best medical ninja techniques such as Byakugou are not known to Danzo.

 

[ItachiStyle]

So how does Danzo do if we take away his best weapon (Koto), and have him start the fight with his seal on? Not well. Of course without those 2 drawbacks Tsunade is going to either lose instantly, or struggle greatly.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

if you have to gimp someone to give another a chance, the latter probably is outclassed

 

[Curse Mark]

I feel as though you speak with an abundance of confidence to the point in which it becomes arrogance. So let's do this shall we.

First off Danzo doesn't have access to Izanagi in the first place, why? because his arm is completely sealed up. Which would mean that he is either going to lose shisui's eye to use izanagi which he wouldn't do in character. But let's say he does. He's still going to be hardpressed, to accomplish anything with Tsunade being on the constant attack he won't have time to unseal his arm. In the minute in which he can be intangible. In fact it we're not even sure if Danzo is capable using his repertoire of jutsu with the seal on his arm.
I also know that people say with his seal Tsunade will not be able to move, the same is true of Tsunade's Body Pathway Derangement, except Danzo's seal has a longer delay period. Furthermore, when Tsunade summons Katsuyu there is nothing Danzo or Baku can actually do about her. Furthermore, if Tsunade's evasive prowess were diminished and she was bisected, Katsuyu could put her back together this is a manga fact.

Just because Danzo didn't activate the seal immediately doesn't mean it takes a long time to work.

if you have to gimp someone to give another a chance, the latter probably is outclassed

this.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Just because Danzo didn't activate the seal immediately doesn't mean it takes a long time to work.

However you have no evidence to the contrary so as far as we know there is a time delay in the jutsu.

this.

I can create a versus match and take a away someone's ability but that doesn't mean anything. What you say that Kakashi is stronger than BM Naruto? No, but you would agree that Kamui would give him the chance of simply removing Naruto from the battlefield and by default losing. Restrictions can serve as an equalizer for techniques we don't fully understand such as KA or techniques which can't be quantified.

 

[Kages]

if you have to gimp someone to give another a chance, the latter probably is outclassed

So let me guess Danzo would beat So6p with KA. We have to restrict that because we don't know its capabilities.

 

[Curse Mark]

1. We have no evidence for either side so we assume the side you're on is the correct one for this debate? I don't see the justice in this.

2. I was agreeing with a post that I found humorous that had nothing to do with your post. I can respond to someone else without you having to address it. But anyways, clearly what he/she was talking about was not the creator of the post making restrictions. Clearly. He was addressing people debating and taking away things when they weren't the OP.

 

[ItachiStyle]

The "no limit fallacy" protects people like the Sage. It's like me saying "Joey the mutant in X-men can turn a person into a table... so he can beat Galactus by turning him into a table". It doesn't work like that. Joey has to have demonstrated he can turn someone as powerful as Galactus into a table, or he encounters the no limit fallacy. The Sage is depicted as a god like being, able to create the tailed beasts and the moon, to serve as host of the 10 tails, etc, etc. Koto has never shown it can affect anyone that powerful, so we can't grant it that sort of ability.

Plus, ranking isn't determined by 1 on 1 fights only, it's about power. Danzo can beat Oro by looking at him (and gain control of all his Edo's), but it doesn't necessarily mean Danzo is more powerful than Oro (though they're in a similar tier).

 

[Kages]

The "no limit fallacy" protects people like the Sage. It's like me saying "Joey the mutant in X-men can turn a person into a table... so he can beat Galactus by turning him into a table". It doesn't work like that. Joey has to have demonstrated he can turn someone as powerful as Galactus into a table, or he encounters the no limit fallacy. The Sage is depicted as a god like being, able to create the tailed beasts and the moon, to serve as host of the 10 tails, etc, etc. Koto has never shown it can affect anyone that powerful, so we can't grant it that sort of ability.

Plus, ranking isn't determined by 1 on 1 fights only, it's about power. Danzo can beat Oro by looking at him (and gain control of all his Edo's), but it doesn't necessarily mean Danzo is more powerful than Oro (though they're in a similar tier).

That's an assumption, KA can affect So6p so it is necessary to restrict it until we know what it's limits are or how it works.

 

[Curse Mark]

I really liked itachi style's fallacy statement. It makes a lot of sense.

 

[TheTailedSage]

To start things off, we have no reason to necessarily believe Danzo can quickly form handseals when the seal is on his arm. In fact it is doubtful that he can do such a thing considering the seals are metal, they would drastically weigh down his arm. And judging from the picture

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It would seem as though that arm is so cumbersome that Danzo needs to assist getting it out of the sling with his other arm. Why is this relevant that would drastically reduce the effectiveness of defense maneuvers made with that arm. In that Tsunade was less than a second away from blitzing Orochimaru and Kabuto they managed to get out the way just in time.

You must be registered for see images

Now if either had tried to use jutsu when she was attacking they would have been smashed. Now imagine Danzo trying to use such to counter Tsunade's blitz with a wind jutsu when he's having trouble moving one of his arms.
Also in the environment that this fight is located in there is not an abundance of dust so the cloud created should be thin enough for partial visibility. Also the gauntlet took a pretty decent amount of combat time.

Now the Baku argument is not so different than the Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei arguments I often hear. Thus I will address them in a similar manner. If Baku sucks Katsuyu or Tsunade towards himself, then the innate problem is that he is also increasing Katsuyu's or Tsunade's mass and acceleration.What is the problem in doing that? Force is equal to mass times acceleration. Essentially, he is making Tsunade's strikes stronger in that instant, and making Katsuyu a lot heavier when she is already quite heavy. All Tsunade would need to do is to pull her arm back and prepare to punch and punch when she is within range. Katsuyu may very well badly injure Baku when she comes into contact with him. As Baku is increasing the mass of any object flying towards himshe can throw a projectile at Baku resulting in great damage, and Katsuyu can spit acid which would lead to him either receiving acid all over his face or swallowing acid which may very well kill Baku.
Tsunade has shown that she can direct chakra to her feet to avoid the gravitational repulsion and attraction abilities of Deva Path, the same then would be applicable of Baku's suction. But the additional problem that comes with Baku's suction is a problem similar to the one faced by Deva Path with his Chibaku Tensei, and that is Danzo cannot afford to be as close to Baku as he would want Tsunade to be otherwise he risks being sucked up himself. Tsunade's primary fighting style however would keep her close to Danzo. Katsuyu innately has more traction than most other summons because of her slime which allows her to stick to surfaces. Meaning, that to push Katsuyu away it will take considerably more force. So sucking Katsuyu up was a rather bad plan of attack, as is trying to suck up Tsunade.
Now you've said summoning katsuyu takes time, which is true but considering how fast Tsunade can form seals

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I doubt Tsunade finding time to summon Katsuyu will be a big issue, the bigger issue is how will Danzo form handseals with the cumbersome seal on his arm.
If I remember correctly Danzo didn't do much dodging at all in the fight against Sasuke, and Sasuke was inside of Susanoo for a lot of the fight so I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Beyond that you not only have to worry about the initial damage caused by one of Tsunade's strikes but the effects of said strike. In fact against Kabuto and Orochimaru she didn't always attack them directly, she used shockwaves that were a result of her strength to serve as an attack.

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You also state that Katsuyu as a slug is slow but the manga disagrees with this point. We also know that Katsuyu can completely envelop people quickly even without their permission. So yes, Katsuyu is evidently quick as she is was able to get into the room and envelop people without them noticing.

Spoiler

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And Katsuyu moved from directly next to Manda, to behind Gamabunta before Jiraiya launched his katon.

Spoiler

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And Katsuyu apparently left the hokage mansion and quickly spread through the town in one panel.

Spoiler

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Finally Tsunade should have ample knowledge of Danzo, having been present during the height of his rivalry with Hiruzen, not to mention that as hokage she would have access to all of Danzo's files. Whereas, while it is common knowledge of Katsuyu, and Tsunade's prowess in taijutsu and her being the best medical ninja techniques such as Byakugou are not known to Danzo.

Im not guna lie this sudden debate is a shocker, but oh well

Yes i agree the gauntlet is heavy but this doesnt negate the fact that he can still do hand seals AND move too. Remember if he always has his gauntlet around his right arm and can still take guys on (but ill get back to this). you have to take the distance of the battle into account she isnt going to get there in the time it takes him to do his hand seals, furthermore he can use vaccum wave to keep her at bay. See the trouble with tsunade is she hass no mid long ranged jutsu, even if she were to get close to danzo thats just putting her in the danger zone as well as danzo. i dont think danzo can quickly do hand seals either

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Now here we can see him doing his handseals, using very little effort, we can also tell he isnt moving sluggishly because the assasains are jumping out at him, if they were as slow as you say they are i doubt he would of been able to do that, however that was a good point. He can take of the pins one by one off the gauntlet after each jusu he does hence him finally getting it off so her can do jutsu faster and do more variety.

I thought about it properly and i took a different approatch, this time instead of having bakus insides burned he could use his trunk to blow away katsuya, or at least keep her stationary (if the wind power isnt that strong). If tsunade does so happen to use her charkra to stick to the ground this is just the perfect time for either danzo to attack her with a powerful fuuton jutsu or undo his gauntlet, If she decides to move she risks getting sucked in or if she can run the pressure of the wind sucking her back will slow her down.

I havent even mentioned the paralysis curse mark

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Of course its not going to be an easy task to get close to tsunade but not that ive given a counter as to how he can take off the gauntlet, if he does get damaged he can use izanagi to make it appear like it never happened. Thats when he will then touch her to place the seal upon her ultimately restricting her movements immaculately. because she is having to use charkra to stick to the ground, it restricts her from using her feet to the full extent so it halfs the risk of him getting hit w/o izanagi, although still dangerous. Getting out of the jutsu would require her to use up a lot of charkra. Tsunade state in the oro fight "healing herself takes up a lot of charkra" doubting she will spam this though but if she does she is wasting a lot of charkra.

Im getting at his fuuton is sharp and strong enough to give problems to a sasukes susano'o so his vaccum moves will definately slice through tsunade. shock waves wont be a problem for danzo because he will most probably jump out the way, having knowledge about her monsterous strength.

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danzos dodging seems pretty reliable in the pic given, and if he can dodge something as bulky as the susano'o he can evade tsuandes attacks.

Ok katsuyas movements are a bit fatser than i thought, even so, the fire style is an explosive tech however danzos vacum style is soley based on slicing though things, and im pretty dam sure he can slice through katsuya

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if he is able to do this to susano'o which is said to be the ultimate defense, then i doubt the likes of katsuya can withstand the sharpness of the attack. it would peirce through katsuya and tsunade.

Also the thing about tsuande having files on danzo is another flaw since its been stated that the people working for danzo (sai)

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have a mark on then to prevent any sort of secret info, (like shizuis eye and the sharingan in his arm) from getting out to public ears. This wouldnt be in the data files. Even if its not yet known to danzo, it doesnt pose much of a threat to him since its defensive not offensive, he will eventually find out in the course of the battle

 

[ItachiStyle]

Kages not one thing you just wrote is a response to my post. Go away and take your obvious fanboyism with you.

 

[Kages]

Kages not one thing you just wrote is a response to my post. Go away and take your obvious fanboyism with you.

LOL You are the one who said 2nd Mizukage> tsunade, a, 3rd Raikage, asuma, seven ninja Swordsmen, guy, and like 20 others and I'm the fanboy? :rofl:

 

[TheTailedSage]

LOL You are the one who said 2nd Mizukage> tsunade, a, 3rd Raikage, asuma, seven ninja Swordsmen, guy, and like 20 others and I'm the fanboy? :rofl:

2nd mizukage can destroy tsunade, 3rd, asuma, 7 ninja swordsman, gai though, his mist basically rapes all of them, they cant sense charkra so they will never find the clam

 

[ItachiStyle]

2nd mizukage can destroy tsunade, 3rd, asuma, 7 ninja swordsman, gai though, his mist basically rapes all of them, they cant sense charkra so they will never find the clam

Even if they could sense Chakra, the genjutsu prevents sensors from finding him. Go read the thread.

 

[BigBlade Master]

Danzo mid-diff, or no-diff if Kotoamatski thing on her

 

[ItachiStyle]

With no Izanagi or Koto, Danzo is going to struggle. Tsunade has better feats and rep as a hand to hand fighter, and is great at dodging and close quarters (the very thing she drilled Sakura in, and she's obviously much better than Sakura), plus Danzo only needs to be hit once before Izanagi is activated, and the bridge forces close quarters (horrible for Danzo). Tsunade can survive getting multiple injuries, then one shot Danzo as she wades through them, and even if she was clumsy enough to get bisected (which I'm not convinced Danzo can do to her minus his summons, etc), her slug will put her back together, heal her, shield her, move her out of reach, etc. The Slug can also throw acid at a range greater than the bridge itself... it just seems slanted against Danzo... because of course it is thanks to OP restrictions.

 

[ItachiStyle]

heck Tsunade can take the bridge out the moment she gets on it, and the lob giant stones at Danzo after he falls in a pile of rubble (and have her summons throw acid at a falling/hurt Danzo)

 

[TheTailedSage]

Even if they could sense Chakra, the genjutsu prevents sensors from finding him. Go read the thread.

put into that logic then he can beat gaara too, you dont need to sense him but the clam

 

[V h o]

Funny how Tsunade needs back up.