[VS] Kabuto vs Madara

Masked man

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- Great intelligence
- Can summon snakes
- DSM
- Edo Tensei
Knowledge: Knows about MS techniques
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- EMS
- Rinnegan
- Strongest Katon
- Mokuton
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Unorthodox

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madara wont let him summon edos so madara rapes
 

ItachiStyle

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a) Madara is more powerful than anything Kabuto can summon (and Summoning Madara is a no go for Kabuto since we've discovered Madara can escape the summons).
b) Kabuto is overhyped too much. Edo Tensei is an awesome ability, but if Kabuto is turned to dust before he can use it (or right after using it, and his summons keep on fighting) is anyone really calling it a victory for Kabuto (who is now dead)? I'm not. There are plenty of guys who could own Kabuto, even in the manga the only reason Itachi and Sasuke don't one shot him is that they're trying to take him alive. Otherwise they kill him the second the fight begins. I'm not sure Kabuto (or Oro) are even in my top 10.
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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kabuto summons his army after using hiding like a mole to tunnel to a safe enough distance.
dan ghost possession + toroi magnet shuriken + nagato soul removal = end of madara.

since we've discovered Madara can escape the summons)
when not completely controlled which we learn works on even people such as nagato
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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Kabuto is overhyped too much. Edo Tensei is an awesome ability, but if Kabuto is turned to dust before he can use it (or right after using it, and his summons keep on fighting) is anyone really calling it a victory for Kabuto (who is now dead)? I'm not. There are plenty of guys who could own Kabuto, even in the manga the only reason Itachi and Sasuke don't one shot him is that they're trying to take him alive. Otherwise they kill him the second the fight begin
sasuke realised just how impossible that was when they were lsoing and stil didnt fight to kill since winning against him was betterthan losing any chance they had of stopping ET which they still didnt do. itachi wanted kabuto alive to teach him a lesson. sasuke didnt give a **** and fought to kill, even shooting susano arrow. kabuto explained they cant even injure him since he'd heal instantly or turn to water logia. and you obviously forgot kabuto can tunnel underground as much as he wants till hes within safe distance. the only reason the uchiha bros ever stood a chance was kabuto wasnt feeling like fighting seriously. if they could have killed him the moment they stepped through the cave, kabuto would feel their killing intent and hide underground. or use orochimarus body shedding to tank the damage. oro was able to use it on kabuto while TAKEN COMPELTELY BY SURPRISE AND CUT TO PIECES. so why would itachi be able to kill someone whos mastered orochimarus power? genjutsu was a no go and neither was beating him to death.
 

V h o

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Considering that Kabuto lost Orichimaru cells, could he even do edo tensei? Even still Madara is the most OP character in Naruto.
Kabuto's brief moment of power was nice, but to be compared to Madara...
 

blazekev90

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Kabuto wins moderate difficulty w/ Edo and high difficultly w/o Edo
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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Considering that Kabuto lost Orichimaru cells, could he even do edo tensei?
yeah and? madara lost his life. guess thta means kabuto winss by default. im sure dying is a bigger handicap than being weakened. obviously both are at their strongest. ET is a jutsu. it doesnt require oro cells. tobirama didnt.

Even still Madara is the most OP character in Naruto.
and hes part of kabuto's army making kabuto second only to rikudo
 

ItachiStyle

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We're not told that Madara's escape is conditional on Kabuto ceasing to control his actions, that's your theory. For all we know Madara can just escape- period. Plus, once Kabuto is killed (which will be moments after the fight begins), he will no longer be controlling the actions of his edo's... meaning Madara can escape even under your logic. The 2 Madara's then go to coffee and discuss conquering the world together. End fight.

You are determined to hype Kabuto, but his "run away" tactics won't work against alot of opponents. For instance, let's say he starts the fight against Mu, and his first move is to try to burrow underground to hide. Mu just senses him out, aims a dust tech at him, and vaporises him right through the ground he's hiding under. End fight. Guys like Itachi, Kakashi, Shi Sui, Sasuke, Danzo, etc, can all one shot Kabuto before he has a chance to do anything. It's just utter rubbish to suggest Sasuke tried to kill Kabuto that fight... he clearly did not... yeh yeh, he fired an arrow or two at him... he didn't spam Ameratsu, which would have ended the fight instantly. Oro is not only stronger than Kabuto, but also has 2 summons who are better than all the ones Kabuto can use (assuming Oro can't cancel the Edo Tensei).

Clearly you're a Kabuto fanboy, but in reality there's probably a dozen guys better than him (or close).
 
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Boston Rob

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Madara was Kabuto's trump card for a reason
 

Unorthodox

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kabuto summons his army after using hiding like a mole to tunnel to a safe enough distance.
dan ghost possession + toroi magnet shuriken + nagato soul removal = end of madara.


when not completely controlled which we learn works on even people such as nagato

madara makes 1000 clones proceeds to rape kabuto in his army on simply then use juubi to have some more fun edo madara>kabuto with edo army
 

TheTailedSage

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Kabuto and his deos have no counter for chibaku tensei, for the radius and range for sound gen is unknown,just thatit bounces off surfaces and if madara happens to be in susano'o and its so high up I'm not sure if sound gen is working, furthermore if they get to close he can just give them a choa shinra tensei
 

ItachiStyle

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Are people still mentioning the sound genjutsu? You know, just because you hear it, it doesn't mean it affects you... it's the no fallacy feat limit. Like saying "well, Joe Blogs the mutant can turn a chair into a statue, so he can turn Galactus into a statue"... no, it doesn't work that way. I will believe some sound genjutsu works on Madara when I see it.
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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Are people still mentioning the sound genjutsu? You know, just because you hear it, it doesn't mean it affects you
thats how it works. shikamaru heard it and was trapped. you see itachis eyes and your trapped.

will believe some sound genjutsu works on Madara when I see it.
it has recently trapped two top tier uchihas who couldnt break it by themselves. what other feats do you really need?

no counter for chibaku tensei,
good thing madara cant use it.

madara makes 1000 clones proceeds to rape kabuto in his army on simply then use juubi to have some more fun edo madara>kabuto with edo army
he cant make clones if hes been possesed and controlled by dan. once this has happened, kinkaku touches him with the rope. dan leaves and madara says "save me hashira-" and is sealed.

We're not told that Madara's escape is conditional on Kabuto ceasing to control his actions
then waht was stopping madara going ape**** on not just the alliance but the rest of the edos as well? kabuto. madara was given control over himself cos kabuto let him do so. when madara was first summoned he was a lifeless corpse who couldnt say anything.

For instance, let's say he starts the fight against Mu, and his first move is to try to burrow underground to hide. Mu just senses him out
that has nothing to do with the match and if he fought mu he'd be able to see mu too and just cast white rage to get him

Guys like Itachi, Kakashi, Shi Sui, Sasuke, Danzo, etc, can all one shot Kabuto before he has a chance to do anything
which is why each and every one of them has failed to do this against any opponent. if itachi can oneshot kabuto he should have oneshotted his akatsuki buddies. shisui and danzo are obvious since KA is hax. as is kamui. doesnt make kabuto any weaker

It's just utter rubbish to suggest Sasuke tried to kill Kabuto that fight... he clearly did not
so that whole susano arrow/chidori spear thing was a joke? ****s and giggles? jsut wanted to give him a bruise? bull****. sasuke knew if he didnt fight as if he was trying to kill him he would lose.

Plus, once Kabuto is killed (which will be moments after the fight begins
except he wont. immortality via regeneration, hiding like a mole, Sm perception/snake sensing
 

ItachiStyle

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thats how it works. shikamaru heard it and was trapped. you see itachis eyes and your trapped.

it has recently trapped two top tier uchihas who couldnt break it by themselves. what other feats do you really need?
Generally one of the things we see if that the more chakra someon has, the more quickly they break gimmick jutsu. For instance, the stronger you are, the faster you break the Shadow Mimic, which is why guys like Kinkaku say "I'll break this weak S#@$ in no time". Similarly, I have not seen it affect anyone with a chakra level close to Madara, so yeh, I'm going to draw doubt on how long it'll be effective. Let's remember, this is a genjutsu Shikamaru broke out of, and if Itachi and Sasuke hadn't been able to look at each others eyes, they probably could have used the same method, so the idea it's going to restrain frickin Madara is pretty unlikely to me.

Never mind that the genjutsu takes time to take effect, and the only reason Kabuto got that time was because the Uchiha brothers had to stall (owing to the need to control him to make him undo edo tensei). In a versus match they just kill him off the bat in seconds.

good thing madara cant use it.
Madara hasn't demonstrated it, so I suppose one can debate if he can use it... however he said he would teach Obito the techniques of the 6 paths, and that's assumedly from where Nagato learnt them, so the idea Madara can't do it is a bit illogical. It's also illogical because Madara uses the meteor technique, that employs the same power to do it (gravity manipulation for repulsion/attraction). Not that he even needs it.

he cant make clones if hes been possesed and controlled by dan. once this has happened, kinkaku touches him with the rope. dan leaves and madara says "save me hashira-" and is sealed.
Again, you've got Kabuto having everything prepped and ready, while Madara just stands there. Let's assume Kabuto has already summoned all his Edo's while Madara stands there and does nothing. He can still see Dan coming (nobody has established him as invisible), and he has the sharingan to help, so as soon as he sees people coming to attack him, he just makes an army of clones (assuming he doesn't own Kabuto one of a dozen other ways). One of the clones can disturb the originals chakra and break him out of it, or use the rinnegan to "absorb" Dan/Dan's jutsu and cancel it... or extract his soul... or get Dan via genjutsu after he possesses him (assuming he can). Of course this all assumes Dan "possesses" the right Madara (which isn't at all likely with an army of clones).

then waht was stopping madara going ape**** on not just the alliance but the rest of the edos as well? kabuto. madara was given control over himself cos kabuto let him do so. when madara was first summoned he was a lifeless corpse who couldnt say anything.
Nothing as far as we know. He was bored and wanted to fight, and when he lost interest he broke the jutsu. We don't know that Kabuto can control him at all (once activated), and if he doesn't activate him he's useless.

that has nothing to do with the match and if he fought mu he'd be able to see mu too and just cast white rage to get him
You continue to grant Kabuto huge amounts of prep, while his foes just stand there. It's lame. To do that Kabuto needs to a) transfer his body into snakes (not fast), b) make the transformation into Sage mode (outright slow), and c) use white hot rage (not a fast tech). So in your mind I guess Mu is just standing there twiddling his thumbs while Kabuto does all this. Give me a break. How about Mu just opens the fight with a dust release, using his sensor powers to aim, if necessary spinning 360 degrees to prevent dodging (though nothing like that much will be needed). Fight over, before Kabuto does any of those things. Your assumptions are ridiculous, and maybe if you read people's posts properly you'd have understood this, since I already explained how Mu can kill him before he gets time to do anything like that. And of course, Mu is a sensor, so while he'd be in pain from White Hot Rage, he'd still be able to sense where Kabuto was no problems... and aim... and thus kill him.

which is why each and every one of them has failed to do this against any opponent. if itachi can oneshot kabuto he should have oneshotted his akatsuki buddies. shisui and danzo are obvious since KA is hax. as is kamui. doesnt make kabuto any weaker
This doesn't even make sense. We know why Itachi didn't one shot Kabuto (needed him alive to undo the seals), and we know why he didn't one-shot alot of other people (he was really on their side), and it's been explained so many times I struggle to believe you're unfamiliar with this explanation.

except he wont. immortality via regeneration, hiding like a mole, Sm perception/snake sensing

Kabuto has not demonstrated immortality, he needs to make seals to hide like a mole, he is slower than many of his foes by a good distance (until he is in Sage mode, which takes too long), and many attacks will hit him through the ground. You've had these explanations many times, and it's frankly a little tired having to repeat them over and over, with you seemingly having not read them.
 
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USSJ Future Trunks

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Kabuto has not demonstrated immortality
he has oro's body shedding which is a form of it, and regeneration which hes shown

until he is in Sage mode, which takes too long
its never shown or stated SM takes time. jiraiya took time cos he hadnt perfected it

This doesn't even make sense. We know why Itachi didn't one shot Kabuto
no we know why he didnt. because nothing he had could work. he wanted to genjutsu him immediately after getting there as per usual tactics to oneshot people. kabuto didnt fall for it. he would have been prepared for other uchiha moves too

Generally one of the things we see if that the more chakra someon has, the more quickly they break gimmick jutsu
genjutsu doesnt work like that. you have to disturb your chakra or if your an uchiha, layer another genjutsu on top of it. or your not getting out.

Similarly, I have not seen it affect anyone with a chakra level close to Madara
strange how you know madaras chakra levels when no one else does

Let's remember, this is a genjutsu Shikamaru broke out of,
which he uniquely can do as he doesnt need to make seals to control his shadow. maybe it wont work on madara because he can have the wood break his fingers but still

however he said he would teach Obito the techniques of the 6 paths, and that's assumedly from where Nagato learnt them
he siad rikudo jutsu which i took to mean izanagi and mazo.

Again, you've got Kabuto having everything prepped and ready, while Madara just stands there. Let's assume Kabuto has already summoned all his Edo's while Madara stands there and does nothing
its not a matter of doing nothing. kabuto has summoned htem in battle as has orochimaru. tobi and hiruzen are pretty fast mothafukas and they couldnt kill an edo user before he could summon anything. your giving people powers they didnt show

or extract his soul
lol like he extracted the souls of the kages?

Nothing as far as we know. He was bored and wanted to fight, and when he lost interest he broke the jutsu
he can fight to his hearts content by breaking it immediately. surely someone as proud and arrogant as him wouldnt willingly let the threat of a godlike controller hang over his head and threaten to ruin his fun. even someone like deidara couldnt stop himself being stuck back in the coffin

You continue to grant Kabuto huge amounts of prep, while his foes just stand there. It's lame. To do that Kabuto needs to a) transfer his body into snakes (not fast), b) make the transformation into Sage mode
its unknown if thats the only way to turn SM. naruto does it by standing still for a second or two. kabuto apparently got the most advanced version of it so far so why cant he do the same thing? your also suggesting kabuto will stand there and let madara kill him

So in your mind I guess Mu is just standing there twiddling his thumbs while Kabuto does all this
jinton has equal amounts of prep and can be interrupted. kabuto enters SM in a few seconds, jumps up there and interrupts mus jinton seals
you didnt say where mu is during all this. is he in kabutos face? is he 100m away?

How about Mu just opens the fight with a dust release
again has been shown to take some time just as SM does

we know why he didn't one-shot alot of other people (he was really on their side
he oneshotted kakashi and tortured him for 72 hours but "is on his side". he midnraped and made naruto cry but "hes on his side". he aided in the deaths of 7 jins because hes just oh so loyal to peace and love!
 

ItachiStyle

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he has oro's body shedding which is a form of it, and regeneration which hes shown
Regen and immortality are not the same things. Body shedding uses alot of chakra... Kabuto does not have unlimited chakra, so there is a finite number of times he can do it in a row. It's also useless against techs like Ameratsu, because when Uchiha's use an inferno on him, his new body which is worming out will catch fire too, and pretty soon he'll be dead, out of chakra and in agonizing pain.

its never shown or stated SM takes time. jiraiya took time cos he hadnt perfected it
I'm not even going to dignify that with a response beyond this:
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There's a reason Kabuto had to go hide in his snakes to gather energy, before he could come out transformed. You also only get the powers you prove you have, and so far all Kabuto has proved is it takes him time to get into Sage Mode... which would make sense, given you know, that's how sage mode has been explained and presented up to this point.

no we know why he didnt. because nothing he had could work. he wanted to genjutsu him immediately after getting there as per usual tactics to oneshot people. kabuto didnt fall for it. he would have been prepared for other uchiha moves too
This has been explained to you in multiple threads. All he had to do was either use the Totsuka blade, use Shi Sui's eye (which prime Itachi gets), or look at him (doing this):
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Kabuto dies. I think you're confusing his regen ability with Danzo's Izanagi... if he was Danzo, he could relocate his body after getting turned into soot... but Kabuto's regen involves him physically crawling out of his old body... which is on fire. I know I've explained this to you before in other threads, where you kept insisting Sasuke proved it was a counter to Ameratasu, when it clearly isn't because Itachi was not trying to kill Sasuke (he needed his eyes), and as it turns out wasn't trying to kill him at all (because he threw the fight). It Itachi had let go of an inferno like that (see above), he'd have torched Sasuke... heck, the way Sasuke originally "stops" Ameratsu isn't even useful because Ameratsu is consistently shown not to need seals (so either Itachi was going to do something else, or he was just making a show of needing seals for his tech to give Sasuke an opening, because he was throwing the fight)... which makes sense, because Dojutsu from the MS don't require seals.

When Kabuto rips his skin off to create a new body... his new body will still be on fire (as well as agonizing pain), and then he dies. This is not complex, but you have shown amazing inability to follow it in this and other threads.

genjutsu doesnt work like that. you have to disturb your chakra or if your an uchiha, layer another genjutsu on top of it. or your not getting out.
Even if we grant that is true, it means all someone has to do is break their finger to get out of the music genjutsu, because it's incredibly weak (and please, stop with the "pain breaks you out of any genjutsu thing", that's been thoroughly explained to you in other threads, and you have no proof of it... it clearly gets you out of this genjutsu though).

And most high level characters can do jutsu without seals... Oro could call a snake to bite him to get out of the "music genjutsu", Itachi could call a crow, etc, etc. Shikamaru's ability to act without seals is not some novel thing that Kage level characters can't manage.

strange how you know madaras chakra levels when no one else does
It's pretty obviously gigantic. Again, not going to dignify this with a response.

he siad rikudo jutsu which i took to mean izanagi and mazo.
I sure didn't.

its not a matter of doing nothing. kabuto has summoned htem in battle as has orochimaru. tobi and hiruzen are pretty fast mothafukas and they couldnt kill an edo user before he could summon anything. your giving people powers they didnt show
This annoys me, because I know you've had it explained multiple times in other threads, and you begin each new thread with the same lies, hoping you won't get called out. Here are our examples for how quickly Edo's can be summoned:
- Oro summons the Hokage (needs to have some tags added to them). Not very fast, Ameratsu would have killed him before he could have activated them (and maybe before he finished the summons, since it requires 4 seals and a hand movement, while Ameratasu requires zero).
- Kabuto summons 5 coffins v.s Tobi, he has to jump back to get distance from Tobi to do this. Ameratsu would again have killed Kabuto before he could do this, if Itachi is bloodlusted (which for this board characters are unless specified otherwise). When he summons the coffins, we see they're not ready yet.
- Kabuto summons Madara. Tells us "It will take some time for me to summon him".
- Kabuto summons Deidara. As we can see from the scan below, he has to add the tag first and activate him.
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So no, Edo Tensei is not "a flick of the wrists, and it's done" as I've seen people like you suggest, in fact it requires prep to do, and Itachi can just Ameratsu Kabuto (or otherwise one shot him) the moment the fight begins.

Madara, using Hashi's tech, can create a forrest "in an instant". I'm pretty sure he's going to have no trouble smashing Kabuto before he gets a chance to do this in any sort of standard versus fight (30-100 feet, no prep, etc).

lol like he extracted the souls of the kages?
Well, nobody with the Rinnegan has had a chance (or need) to soul snatch the Hokage's souls, so I'm not really sure I understand the argument here.

he can fight to his hearts content by breaking it immediately. surely someone as proud and arrogant as him wouldnt willingly let the threat of a godlike controller hang over his head and threaten to ruin his fun. even someone like deidara couldnt stop himself being stuck back in the coffin
Maybe the fun was snapping it later when he thought he had control of him. Maybe he was getting info out of Kabuto to see what the situation was, before breaking out of it. We don't know. As far as we know he can break out of it, period.

its unknown if thats the only way to turn SM. naruto does it by standing still for a second or two. kabuto apparently got the most advanced version of it so far so why cant he do the same thing? your also suggesting kabuto will stand there and let madara kill him
Naruto does not stand still "for a second or two", and the more Sage energy you need, the longer you got to gather it. Obvious lie is obvious... a "second or two"? WTF?

Well, I'm sure Kabuto will resist, but since Madara is more powerful than him, there's not alot he can do about it is there.

jinton has equal amounts of prep and can be interrupted. kabuto enters SM in a few seconds, jumps up there and interrupts mus jinton seals
Jinton requires no seals. It is quite a fast tech...fast enough for Mu to beat out Naruto's attack (until he extended his arm). Fast enough for Onoki to frequently whip it out as a counter/attack. No idea where you got the idea it's slow... maybe watching the anime or something. It certainly doesn't have "equal amounts of prep" to Sage mode, which took an extended amount of time... a few seconds?!! WTF? Kabuto never demonstrated that ability. Kabuto would be atomised in the opening moments of the fight against Mu, before he could summon/do anything.

you didnt say where mu is during all this. is he in kabutos face? is he 100m away?
Standard fights are 30-100 feet apart. Plenty for Mu to atomise him. Clearly you don't remember what Jinton can do... it does stuff like this:
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and this:
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And unlike Onoki, Mu is a sensor, so Kabuto can "dodge" or "hide underground", Mu senses where he is, and is hitting him, through the ground, or wherever.

Your threads are just full of ridiculous and patently false remarks.
 
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