[VS] Jugram vs shunsui

[Unorthodox]

What if this fight happened

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[Observer]

Shisui ez pz win

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Haschwald wins.

Because jugram is just very good at hitting people with a sword, and at that point shunsui was unable to beat robert acutrone, Shunsui wouldn't be able to win with just shikai, and the Balance is an absurdly perfect counter to Shunsui's bankai. Once Shunsui goes bankai, any damage inflicted on him will be inflicted on both of them, as well as haschwalds shield, and haschwald can just use the balance to put it back on shunsui, only x3.

At that point the damage would be re-inflicted on haschwald and his shield, then thrown back at shunsui. repeat until shunsui is swiss cheese, or disable's his bankai.

 

[Unorthodox]

Haschwald wins.

Because jugram is just very good at hitting people with a sword, and at that point shunsui was unable to beat robert acutrone, shunsui wouldn't be able to win with just shikai, and the Balance is an absurdly perfect counter to Shunsui's bankai. once shunsui goes bankai, any damage inflicted on him will be inflicted on both of them, as well as haschwalds shield, and haschwald can just use the balance to put it back on shunsui, only x3.
at that point the damage would be re-inflicted on haschwald and his shield, then thrown back at shunsui. repeat until shunsui is swiss cheese, or disable's his bankai.

damn i agree with this lol

 

[Tantalus Thief]

YCS is right. The balance shits on Shunsui's shikai and part of his bankai.

 

[Yata Mirror]

The Balance one-shots..
only thing that shits on The Balance is The Antithesis or The Almighty

 

[-Akuma-]

Haschwald wins.

Because jugram is just very good at hitting people with a sword, and at that point shunsui was unable to beat robert acutrone, Shunsui wouldn't be able to win with just shikai, and the Balance is an absurdly perfect counter to Shunsui's bankai. Once Shunsui goes bankai, any damage inflicted on him will be inflicted on both of them, as well as haschwalds shield, and haschwald can just use the balance to put it back on shunsui, only x3.

At that point the damage would be re-inflicted on haschwald and his shield, then thrown back at shunsui. repeat until shunsui is swiss cheese, or disable's his bankai.

Saying Shunsui would lose out in shikai against Base Hash purely because he didn't beat Robert is just plain wrong. Shunsui with his shikai actually working was beating Base Lille, his shikai most likely wasn't working against Robert.

 

[Tarkatower]

Shunsui cannot beat Haschwalth.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Saying Shunsui would lose out in shikai against Base Hash purely because he didn't beat Robert is just plain wrong. Shunsui with his shikai actually working was beating Base Lille, his shikai most likely wasn't working against Robert.

Lille is really not the close combat type, his main weapon is a Sniper Rifle after all. They're meant for shooting people at a distance, not for fighting up close. Beating Lille like that doesn't mean much, since close combat is exactly what Haschwalth does specialise in. Also because I hate Lille.

 

[ssjelf]

Ehhhh it just a matter of whose hax has higher priority. But how does haschwalth inflicting damage on shunsuis via the balance continue to add more damage to him? He already has his current injuries that he gave haschwalth and they got mirrored. If they got healed on haschwalth they get healed on him too. Haschwalth take damage at the exact same time as shunsui does so it then becomes who has better health. And that is pretty unanswerable. There is also the fact that haschwalth seems to have a limit because his shield began to crack. Also shunsui in shikai is clearly superior to haschwalth in pure swordplay.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Ehhhh it just a matter of whose hax has higher priority. But how does haschwalth inflicting damage on shunsuis via the balance continue to add more damage to him? He already has his current injuries that he gave haschwalth and they got mirrored. If they got healed on haschwalth they get healed on him too. Haschwalth take damage at the exact same time as shunsui does so it then becomes who has better health. And that is pretty unanswerable. There is also the fact that haschwalth seems to have a limit because his shield began to crack. Also shunsui in shikai is clearly superior to haschwalth in pure swordplay.

Haschwalth's power removes damage from himself and puts it on his enemies. Shunsui's power means that any damage he takes is also taken by enemies. The main difference is that Shunsui doesn't heal because he's a good guy, and only villains get the required secondary power to damage reflection.

In theory, If Haschwalth were to stab Shunsui in Bankai, the stab would would be given to both of them via the first dan, then reflected from Haschwalth onto Shunsui via The Balance. Shunsui is stabbed again, First dan activates again, Balance reflects again, repeat until done.

 

[ssjelf]

Haschwalth's power removes damage from himself and puts it on his enemies. Shunsui's power means that any damage he takes is also taken by enemies. The main difference is that Shunsui doesn't heal because he's a good guy, and only villains get the required secondary power to damage reflection.

In theory, If Haschwalth were to stab Shunsui in Bankai, the stab would would be given to both of them via the first dan, then reflected from Haschwalth onto Shunsui via The Balance. Shunsui is stabbed again, First dan activates again, Balance reflects again, repeat until done.

Right, except any damage done to shunsui is again done at exactly the same time to haschwalth no matter how many times he activates his ability. In other words, even if damage accumulates on him, haschwalth still ends up with it because it is still on shunsui. It is only an endurance battle there. Who fails first, haschwalth or shunsui? As seen with his battle with uryuu, haschwalth does take a second before he can reflect it back, if the damage is significant enough to one shot him, it can.

I see it as the opposite as you. It is shunsuis bankai that is the perfect counter to the balance, because all things done are permanently being done back to his opponent until one of the two falls. There is also the 4th dan which would one shot haschwalth and he wouldnt be able to activate his ability because he was dead. It was already strongly suggested these two would face off. If the manga hadnt been rushed near the end, i suspect they would have been each other's opponents and obviously in that scenario, good guy wins.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Right, except any damage done to shunsui is again done at exactly the same time to haschwalth no matter how many times he activates his ability. In other words, even if damage accumulates on him, haschwalth still ends up with it because it is still on shunsui. It is only an endurance battle there. Who fails first, haschwalth or shunsui? As seen with his battle with uryuu, haschwalth does take a second before he can reflect it back, if the damage is significant enough to one shot him, it can.

I see it as the opposite as you. It is shunsuis bankai that is the perfect counter to the balance, because all things done are permanently being done back to his opponent until one of the two falls. There is also the 4th dan which would one shot haschwalth and he wouldnt be able to activate his ability because he was dead. It was already strongly suggested these two would face off. If the manga hadnt been rushed near the end, i suspect they would have been each other's opponents and obviously in that scenario, good guy wins.

Even if that where the case, Haschwald heals when he transfers damage, shunsui doesn't, and would eventually get stabbed to death.

1: Haschwald stabs shunsui.
2: First dan activates, both have been stabbed once, so has the shield.
3: Haschwald uses balance, shunsui has 3 stabs, haschwalds and the shield have none.
4: First dan activates, haschwald and the shield have been stabbed twice, shunsui three times.
5: Balance, Shunsui has been stabbed 7 times. haschwald and the shield have not.
6: First dan, haschwald and shield have been stabbed 4 times, shunsui 7. if shunsui isn't dead now, he will be soon.
7: Balance, shunsui falls over dead from being stabbed fifteen times. haschwald puts the eight stabs he got onto the shield. haschwald is fine, shunsui is dead. Villain hax wins again.

 

[ssjelf]

Even if that where the case, Haschwald heals when he transfers damage, shunsui doesn't, and would eventually get stabbed to death.

1: Haschwald stabs shunsui.
2: First dan activates, both have been stabbed once, so has the shield.
3: Haschwald uses balance, shunsui has 3 stabs, haschwalds and the shield have none.
4: First dan activates, haschwald and the shield have been stabbed twice, shunsui three times.
5: Balance, Shunsui has been stabbed 7 times. haschwald and the shield have not.
6: First dan, haschwald and shield have been stabbed 4 times, shunsui 7. if shunsui isn't dead now, he will be soon.
7: Balance, shunsui falls over dead from being stabbed fifteen times. haschwald puts the eight stabs he got onto the shield. haschwald is fine, shunsui is dead. Villain hax wins again.

The problem is that you think haschwald heals. For as long as the first dan is activated, the wounds are shared and cannot disappear as long as they are on one of the two fighters, I don't think it has to be reactivated every time the wounds need to be "reshared". I believe it is a constant effect. The moment shunsui is stabbed, the wound appears on haschwald.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

The problem is that you think haschwald heals. For as long as the first dan is activated, the wounds are shared and cannot disappear as long as they are on one of the two fighters, I don't think it has to be reactivated every time the wounds need to be "reshared". I believe it is a constant effect. The moment shunsui is stabbed, the wound appears on haschwald.

Well then we are left quibbling over techniques that have only been shown once in the manga, then immediately forgotten about. I'm still going with Haschwalth, because villains always get the better powers.

 

[ToshiZO]

He reverses the reversal.

SO? He reverses the reversal's reversal.

This is how the arguments look in this thread, what a stupid ass headache matchup, typical bleach bs powers.

OT: Whoever looks more perma fried at the end while giving a one liner wins.

 

[-Akuma-]

Lille is really not the close combat type, his main weapon is a Sniper Rifle after all. They're meant for shooting people at a distance, not for fighting up close. Beating Lille like that doesn't mean much, since close combat is exactly what Haschwalth does specialise in. Also because I hate Lille.

Lille had great reflexes and that's not my point. Saying Shunsui loses purely because he didn't beat Robert is stupid.

 

[ssjelf]

He reverses the reversal.

SO? He reverses the reversal's reversal.

This is how the arguments look in this thread, what a stupid ass headache matchup, typical bleach bs powers.

OT: Whoever looks more perma fried at the end while giving a one liner wins.

That's what I was trying to get at though. It just comes down to whose hax has priority and maybe a stamina battle. No real way to tell in either case.

 

[Unorthodox]

Shnsui can only use his 1st Dan once so where do people get this infinite loop of reflection, if that was true when Lillie shot him he would have shot himself too, Jugram stomps you can also add that his misfortune of gaining those injuries would be canceled out due to his shield anyways.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Shnsui can only use his 1st Dan once so where do people get this infinite loop of reflection, if that was true when Lillie shot him he would have shot himself too, Jugram stomps you can also add that his misfortune of gaining those injuries would be canceled out due to his shield anyways.

Lille doesn't have damage reflection, Haschwalth does. There's no reason for Lille to get infinite looped. He shoots Shunusi, he gets shot. The End.