Is EMS Madara Equal to Hashirama?

TheGeorge

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Ok before you call me retarded or a troll, please read so you can see my reasoning for this assumption.
IGNORE THE PART ABOUT MS, I HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG
Madara states that after he gained his EMS from Izuna the Senju came and offered a treaty which means that he actually only fought Hashirama once while he had EMS.

This should mean that every battle before V.O.T.E between the two would be MS Madara vs Hashirama. If this is correct (which I’m assuming it is given that the fact stated above is true) then that would mean that Hashirama had a hard time killing MS Madara.
I’m not saying that MS Madara was equal or that Hashirama wasn’t stronger than him, all I’m saying is that before EMS, Madara could not kill Hashirama because he was weaker, and Hashi couldn’t kill Madara because he was always on the defensive just trying to survive. This would also help the rest of the clan by keeping Hashirama occupied, because I highly doubt anyone else would be able to take on Hashirama, as well as explain why Madara lost his sight before Izuna.

Besides that, it could explain why Madara was/is so infatuated with Hashirama and his abilities and is always praising him, because before EMS he would never be able to defeat him. It would also explain why Hashirama was feared as the strongest at that time.

So after gaining EMS it would seem that Madara took a gamble and challenged Hashirama. And as have seen in the manga Hashirama had a very hard time defeating him. Some might say it was because he had Kurama, but really kurama? Any tailed beast besides the juubi would easily be Hashirama’s pet. Also don’t forget that Hashirama had Mito as well.
Madara then states that he had a battle TO THE DEATH with Hashirama meaning that each one could have won. Either that or Madara was just stupid enough to go suicide against Hashirama for no reason. Now if this doesn’t prove that they were practically equal I don’t know what would. You might say that his only objective was Hashirama’s DNA so that he can catch up to him in terms of power, but I think it would be more plausible if Madara knew that he was at his limit and wasn’t satisfied with just being equal to Hashirama, because as we all should know Madara just want’s more power. Others might bring up the page where Madara states that only Hashirama would be able to defeat him, but he may just be implying that he would be the only one capable of beating his PS, which again doesn’t mean that he could absolutely 100% beat him every time.

So in short my reasons for thinking they are equal are:
1. Hashirama was barely able to defeat madara.
2. Madara claims their battle was to the death implying each one could have won.
3. They both needed help (even though I doubt either of their assistants made a big difference).

Again this is only an assumption and I made I to see what you guys think of it.
Do you agree or disagree? Why?
What are you’re thoughts on this?
 
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Positive Day

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Ok before you call me retarded or a troll, please read so you can see my reasoning for this assumption.

Madara states that after he gained his EMS from Izuna the Senju came and offered a treaty which means that he actually only fought Hashirama once while he had EMS.

This should mean that every battle before V.O.T.E between the two would be MS Madara vs Hashirama. If this is correct (which I’m assuming it is given that the fact stated above is true) then that would mean that Hashirama had a hard time killing MS Madara.
I’m not saying that MS Madara was equal or that Hashirama wasn’t stronger than him, all I’m saying is that before EMS, Madara could not kill Hashirama because he was weaker, and Hashi couldn’t kill Madara because he was always on the defensive just trying to survive. This would also help the rest of the clan by keeping Hashirama occupied, because I highly doubt anyone else would be able to take on Hashirama, as well as explain why Madara lost his sight before Izuna.

Besides that, it could explain why Madara was/is so infatuated with Hashirama and his abilities and is always praising him, because before EMS he would never be able to defeat him. It would also explain why Hashirama was feared as the strongest at that time.

So after gaining EMS it would seem that Madara took a gamble and challenged Hashirama. And as have seen in the manga Hashirama had a very hard time defeating him. Some might say it was because he had Kurama, but really kurama? Any tailed beast besides the juubi would easily be Hashirama’s pet. Also don’t forget that Hashirama had Mito as well.
Madara then states that he had a battle TO THE DEATH with Hashirama meaning that each one could have won. Either that or Madara was just stupid enough to go suicide against Hashirama for no reason. Now if this doesn’t prove that they were practically equal I don’t know what would. You might say that his only objective was Hashirama’s DNA so that he can catch up to him in terms of power, but I think it would be more plausible if Madara knew that he was at his limit and wasn’t satisfied with just being equal to Hashirama, because as we all should know Madara just want’s more power. Others might bring up the page where Madara states that only Hashirama would be able to defeat him, but he may just be implying that he would be the only one capable of beating his PS, which again doesn’t mean that he could absolutely 100% beat him every time.

So in short my reasons for thinking they are equal are:
1. Hashirama was barely able to defeat madara.
2. Madara claims their battle was to the death implying each one could have won.
3. They both needed help (even though I doubt either of their assistants made a big difference).

Again this is only an assumption and I made I to see what you guys think of it.
Do you agree or disagree? Why?
What are you’re thoughts on this?
Really sums up the hostility on this website.
 

Omnipotent

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Ok before you call me retarded or a troll, please read so you can see my reasoning for this assumption.

Madara states that after he gained his EMS from Izuna the Senju came and offered a treaty which means that he actually only fought Hashirama once while he had EMS.

This should mean that every battle before V.O.T.E between the two would be MS Madara vs Hashirama. If this is correct (which I’m assuming it is given that the fact stated above is true) then that would mean that Hashirama had a hard time killing MS Madara.
I’m not saying that MS Madara was equal or that Hashirama wasn’t stronger than him, all I’m saying is that before EMS, Madara could not kill Hashirama because he was weaker, and Hashi couldn’t kill Madara because he was always on the defensive just trying to survive. This would also help the rest of the clan by keeping Hashirama occupied, because I highly doubt anyone else would be able to take on Hashirama, as well as explain why Madara lost his sight before Izuna.

Besides that, it could explain why Madara was/is so infatuated with Hashirama and his abilities and is always praising him, because before EMS he would never be able to defeat him. It would also explain why Hashirama was feared as the strongest at that time.

So after gaining EMS it would seem that Madara took a gamble and challenged Hashirama. And as have seen in the manga Hashirama had a very hard time defeating him. Some might say it was because he had Kurama, but really kurama? Any tailed beast besides the juubi would easily be Hashirama’s pet. Also don’t forget that Hashirama had Mito as well.
Madara then states that he had a battle TO THE DEATH with Hashirama meaning that each one could have won. Either that or Madara was just stupid enough to go suicide against Hashirama for no reason. Now if this doesn’t prove that they were practically equal I don’t know what would. You might say that his only objective was Hashirama’s DNA so that he can catch up to him in terms of power, but I think it would be more plausible if Madara knew that he was at his limit and wasn’t satisfied with just being equal to Hashirama, because as we all should know Madara just want’s more power. Others might bring up the page where Madara states that only Hashirama would be able to defeat him, but he may just be implying that he would be the only one capable of beating his PS, which again doesn’t mean that he could absolutely 100% beat him every time.

So in short my reasons for thinking they are equal are:
1. Hashirama was barely able to defeat madara.
2. Madara claims their battle was to the death implying each one could have won.
3. They both needed help (even though I doubt either of their assistants made a big difference).

Again this is only an assumption and I made I to see what you guys think of it.
Do you agree or disagree? Why?
What are you’re thoughts on this?
Disagree:
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EMS Madara was left on the verge of death (and essentially life-support for the rest of his days) when he faced Hashirama even when EMS Madara had Kurama's assistance. Do you really believe MS Madara would have stood a chance on his own? Or are you saying Hashirama just wasn't trying? So they always fought when Madara had EMS or he would've been dead from the first fight.
 

Brooks

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Maybe.. i really don't know. people use Kurama as an excuse, but forget Hashirama can control Bijuus and can suck Chakra with his Wood Dragon and Kurama is made of pure Chakra which would make Hashirama job much easier.
 

TheGeorge

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Disagree:
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EMS Madara was left on the verge of death (and essentially life-support for the rest of his days) when he faced Hashirama even when EMS Madara had Kurama's assistance. Do you really believe MS Madara would have stood a chance on his own? Or are you saying Hashirama just wasn't trying? So they always fought when Madara had EMS or he would've been dead from the first fight.
Ok if you would had read thoroughly you would see that I stated MS Madara would not be able to defeat him he was just surviving.

Again you should read I stated that he was known as this because Madara only had MS at the time.

He was on life support because he prolonged his life. However he did have wounds, but that doesn't mean Hashirama didn't.

No Madara didn't gain EMS until Izuna died and right after the senju asked for a peace treaty.

Kurama is not even close to a threat for Hashirama.

Please read more carefully next time.
 

GiantShuriken

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Yes they are equal. So6p gave the Uchiha and Senju have his powers, uchiha got the great dojutsu and senju have the great chakra and lifeforce. Hashirama beats Madara because of "Will of Fire", same reason why Naruto will beat Sasuke most likely.
 

Omnipotent

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Ok if you would had read thoroughly you would see that I stated MS Madara would not be able to defeat him he was just surviving.

Again you should read I stated that he was known as this because Madara only had MS at the time.

He was on life support because he prolonged his life. However he did have wounds, but that doesn't mean Hashirama didn't.

No Madara didn't gain EMS until Izuna died and right after the senju asked for a peace treaty.

Kurama is not even close to a threat for Hashirama.

Please read more carefully next time.
No, just no. MS Madara would NOT have been able to survive against Hashirama, and MS Madara never fought Hashirama.

Let's pull out the manga scans:
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Madara shown to have EMS in that last panel there from "exhausting his resources" (including his brother), and then on the next page said that thanks to those efforts he obtained a flawless MS (aka EMS, as shown in the last panel of the previous page), and became leader of the Uchiha. It was only then that he found himself facing the Senju, and EVENTUALLY fought Hashirama. So no, Madara did not fight him with MS.

"Wounds"?!:
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Because a sword straight through him is nothing serious without medical attention; everybody thought he was dead, including Hashirama himself.

Both EMS Madara and Hashirama can control Kurama, I am well aware of this, in addition to the fact that Hashirama can suppress Kurama. But at what cost? Hashirama's chakra.
 

TheGeorge

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No, just no. MS Madara would NOT have been able to survive against Hashirama, and MS Madara never fought Hashirama.

Let's pull out the manga scans:
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Madara shown to have EMS in that last panel there from "exhausting his resources" (including his brother), and then on the next page said that thanks to those efforts he obtained a flawless MS (aka EMS, as shown in the last panel of the previous page), and became leader of the Uchiha. It was only then that he found himself facing the Senju, and EVENTUALLY fought Hashirama. So no, Madara did not fight him with MS.

"Wounds"?!:
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Because a sword straight through him is nothing serious without medical attention; everybody thought he was dead, including Hashirama himself.

Both EMS Madara and Hashirama can control Kurama, I am well aware of this, in addition to the fact that Hashirama can suppress Kurama. But at what cost? Hashirama's chakra.
Hmm I see what you were saying about the MS. It seems I misread the manga. However that still does not prove that they were not equal both still failed to kill each other out of all the times they fought and Hashirama still had a very hard time killing Madara.

I didn't say it was a small wound.

It does cost him chakra, but i'm sure he had plenty to spare considering he was a senju. And it also cost's Madara Chakra as well. Mito was also there to seal the Kyuubi.
 

AirWind

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Extracted from naruto wikia

Fearing that Hashirama would oppress the Uchiha, Madara left the village, and challenged Hashirama's rule. After an intense battle that included the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox, Kurama, Hashirama defeated Madara; and Hashirama's wife Mito became Kurama's first jinchūriki by sealing the beast within herself. In the aftermath of their battle, Madara was believed to have been killed, and the resulting battle created what would come to be known as the "Valley of the End". To commemorate the battle, two statues, one of Madara and the other of Hashirama, were carved into the borders of the valley.
It is already stated EMS Madara + Kurama < Hashirama. Its a fact.
 

silmarill

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Madara was afraid of Hashirama
Madara doubted his own abilities thats why he had to take the damn Kyuubi with him to even dare and challenge the first hokage
 
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