The uzumaki will be confirmed to be the original blood line

[Ninpou]

once again where was this stated?

Dont bother argueing with this guy his appaerent study of genealogy obvously failed him.

 

[Ninpou]

once again where was this stated?

Dont bother argueing with this guy his apparent study of genealogy obviously failed him.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

By the time I typed my first response it had gotten so long that I didn't feel the need to go back and make it any longer to provide evidence for things that people should know just by simply reading the manga and the databook. Well not everyone has read the databooks or know what they are so nevermind.

1. Mito Uzumaki did not live through the first 3 hokages reins. She died after giving Kurama to a young Kushina. Hiruzen was the current Hokage, but no evidence from databook or manga can determine how early into Hiruzen's reign as Hokage it was, but it can be speculated that he wasn't Hokage for very long. Another thing to point out, Hiruzen became Hokage fairly quickly. Neither Tobirama nor Hashirama Senju lived a full life. Hashirama was said to have died shortly after founding Konoha. And Tobirama also died before reaching old age, and he appointed Hiruzen to be Hokage the following day. I'm don't have time to search up pages on things you should know, but go back and read the danzo/sasuke arc and find danzo's flashback to find your proof. So while Mito Uzumaki did indeed live to see 3 Hokages, two of them died young and she didn't even live to see the 3rd reach anywhere near old age.

2. Yes the Uzumaki had longevity, but clearly from my point in no.1, you are drastically overstating their life spans. The Senju had durability and stamina, and we have never seen an old Senju technically, but it is because of this fact we can not automatically assume they don't live long lives as well. The Senju (meaning thousand skills btw) were known to be the more-warrior like clan, and they participated in many fights leading to the founding of the Konoha. Many of them died in battle, so it can't be determined whether or not they could live just as long as the Uzumaki, I will give you that there. But seeing as the Senju clan did indeed inherit the sages long life force, and since you also can't prove otherwise, the senju likely would've otherwise lived long lives.

3. I am not like many of the people who think that you meant to say that the Uzumaki should get the sharingan. I even said in my post that "this goes beyond the sharingan". I understand your idea about the sharingan being a result of the time and morphing through the bloodline thinning, so the if the Uzumaki are the original bloodline, the pure bloodline combined with the ORIGINAL senju and uchiha dna, not the watered down stuff, then they wouldn't have the mutations that came later, meaning anything that the senju had during hashirama's era, and the uchiha had during madara's era, more than likely wouldn't be had by the sage or his two sons, since by the time hashi and madara came into existence, too many mutations had occured and the bloodline had thinned. See I get what you are saying there. The Uzumaki can be the original bloodline without having the mutated sharingan. Just like a person with darker skin and darker hair could trace his lineage and discover he has anscesters with blone hair and lighter skin. Mutations don't show up within the original bloodline. They are called mutations for a reason.

4. Now that we have that little agreement out of the way, you should be able to see what I'm saying. The elder son inherited the eyes as you said, and the younger son inherited the body. These were things directly given by the top of the heirarchy; the sage. The two sons are as untainted as the senju and the uchiha bloodline could get, and if you combine them, yes you would automatically get the sage again, equip with the Rinnegan and full powers and all, because the sons are the untainted bloodlines just cut in half. If you take the more recently mutated uchihas and senjus, then no you wouldnt automatically get the Rinnegan because those are mutated strands thus something completely different, but it is a possibility you could get them. Again, I've been following you this whole time, but my focus was not on the recent senju/uchiha/uzumaki, it was the original (sage/two sons). The Sage split his powers, and essentially his bloodline, in half, which resulted in a physical eye for the elder son, so while that may not be the sharingan, it does mean that if the Uzumaki are the ORIGINAL bloodline, then in the Uzumaki's PUREST form, there needs to be an occular jutsu that resembles the elder son's eyes. Yet from what the manga has given us, the Uzumaki have no occular jutsu and aren't able to obtain one.

THIS is what I've been trying to get you to see. If the ORIGINAL Uzumaki blood (the sage) has both the ORIGINAL Uchiha and ORIGINAL Senju dna, then that means that the elder son's eyes (which isn't the sharingan) should be something that the original Uzumaki should have. Yet from what the manga and databooks tell us, the Uzumaki's history have never shown them to be capable of any occular jutsu. You pointed out that they have all the senju traits plus longevity (yet to be confirmed but lets go with it) This makes sense. The senju got the body, the Uzumaki have the body+extra ok. But the uchiha got the eye, yet the Uzumaki dont even have an eye at all. They wouldn't ahve the sharingan obviously, but they would have an occular jutsu since that is something the sage gave DIRECTLY to the the elder son. Maybe the current Uzumaki's have also gone through mutations that caused them to lose their occular jutsu, but they should've definitely had one at some point in time.

Sidenote: The two sons went on to populate the senju and uchiha. the sage died after choosing his successor. We only know of him to have two kids. Unless he had Uzumaki kids we dont know about, then it's impossible for him to have helped populate an uzumaki clan. Yes a clan can be made up of other clans who intergrate with a dominant clan and assume it's name, but the sage was the only one of his kind at the time. Something else to think about.

1.The longevity is there regardless of how long each kage reigned over the village for not to mention hiruzen died an old man and mito was shown to be a fuly grown adult during the time hashi was alive if she lived to see hiruzen take office that still displays a way longer life span then any normal human.


2.The senju do not have longevity it is never stated so it remains your opinion and this thread is not about personal opinion seriously if you are going to bring up an assumption at least provide a reliable source to back it up.


3.We agree here

4.This is the spot we diverge mainly here "THIS is what I've been trying to get you to see. If the ORIGINAL Uzumaki blood (the sage) has both the ORIGINAL Uchiha and ORIGINAL Senju dna, then that means that the elder son's eyes (which isn't the sharingan) should be something that the original Uzumaki should have."




How do you correlate the two ancestors coming together should prove the uzumaki should have an occular jusutu ?
Say the sage represent A he divides into B and C.This is where this line comes in.The sage just holds the genetic make up that led to the uchiha ancestor and senju ancestor if you take B and combine it with C you do not always get A you would could get another combnination BC or CB.Once A split the two beings became their own distinct people with their own distinct traits.Madara said he did not unlock it until close to death which means he carried the genes around for years until he triggered something we do not know what "it" is yet.So since we know its not a guarantee that you will get the rinnegan even with the right dna your faulty for saying the uzumaki must of had an occular justu akin to the elder sage.


The sage had this

You must be registered for see images

When half of his chakra was given to one son he manifested it to his eyes and produced this

You must be registered for see images

Your implying that somehow if you put back together the uchiha and senju ancestor the uzumaki would end up with the diluted eyes.That makes no sense.Your ultimately suggesting that the sage(uzumaki) would give birth to the the uchiha and senju ancestor and if they combined their dna
the uzumaki would end up with the occular justu that was made up of only of half if that dna to begin with./:

 

[Troyg39]

1.The longevity is there regardless of how long each kage reigned over the village for not to mention hiruzen died an old man and mito was shown to be a fuly grown adult during the time hashi was alive if she lived to see hiruzen take office that still displays a way longer life span then any normal human.


2.The senju do not have longevity it is never stated so it remains your opinion and this thread is not about personal opinion seriously if you are going to bring up an assumption at least provide a reliable source to back it up.


3.We agree here

4.This is the spot we diverge mainly here "THIS is what I've been trying to get you to see. If the ORIGINAL Uzumaki blood (the sage) has both the ORIGINAL Uchiha and ORIGINAL Senju dna, then that means that the elder son's eyes (which isn't the sharingan) should be something that the original Uzumaki should have."




How do you correlate the two ancestors coming together should prove the uzumaki should have an occular jusutu ?
Say the sage represent A he divides into B and C.This is where this line comes in.The sage just holds the genetic make up that led to the uchiha ancestor and senju ancestor if you take B and combine it with C you do not always get A you would could get another combnination BC or CB.Once A split the two beings became their own distinct people with their own distinct traits.Madara said he did not unlock it until close to death which means he carried the genes around for years until he triggered something we do not know what "it" is yet.So since we know its not a guarantee that you will get the rinnegan even with the right dna your faulty for saying the uzumaki must of had an occular justu akin to the elder sage.


The sage had this

You must be registered for see images

When half of his chakra was given to one son he manifested it to his eyes and produced this

You must be registered for see images

Your implying that somehow if you put back together the uchiha and senju ancestor the uzumaki would end up with the diluted eyes.That makes no sense

1. Hiruzen dying an old man is irrelevant. And Hashirama's reign as Hokage didn't start until both he and Mito were full grown adults. They both also looked to be around the same age. And since Hashirama died shortly after his reign started, that means he died before he reached old age and can not be used validly to show Mito's great life span. The 2nd Hogake? Again, Tobirama took the throne as a full grown adult, and died shortly after, still as an adult who hadn't reached old age, so who's to say Mito would've outlasted their NATURAL life span. Tobirama died in battle, and Hashirama simply died young and below even the average life span. Mito died well before either reached old age, and she died while Hiruzen was very young. I am not saying that the Uzumaki do not have longevity, I'm saying your example is invalid. Unless you can tell me what age Mito was when she died, you can't use the Hokages as evidence because te 1st two didn't live to old age due to war and the she never saw the third come close to old age.

2. I am done with this. I can not prove this because as I said we've never seen an old Senju. But we've seen old people from many other clans (Granny Chio, 3rd Raikage, Hiruzen). I personally believe it's safe to say that Senju can atleast live to old age, and since we've never seen one live to their fullest potential due to war then I can't accurately show you the life span of their clan.

3. I figured we would

4. This is certainly where we disagree. I did not say that combining the original uchiha and senju blood would equal the diluted, or half-cut eye of the elder son. I was saying that if you combine the two sons, yes you would get the original sages powers, because the manga stated in plain language that the sage simply divided his powers between the two. He didn't divide them and then dilute them, he just spilt them up. So the elder son needs the younger son to reach the sage's original state again and vise versa. Yet once again, you ignore me when I point out that the Uzumaki DO NOT have an eye jutsu to call their own at all. We know that even the elder son's followers and mutations still resulted in them having an eye, just having a mutated eye. But regardless, they still kept an occular jutsu, it never just went away. Do you think that the Uzumaki bloodline thinned out so much that they just ended up losing their occular jutsu? I don't think so. Because the sage had an occular jutsu, and even though he split his powers in half which resulted in a different looking eye for the elder son, the elder son and his mutations that followed still retained SOME form of an occular dojutsu. So again my question is, why do the Uzumaki not have any occular jutsu what so ever? If the sage were an Uzumaki, then the Uzumaki would have SOME FORM of an occular jutsu, whether it be the Rinnegan, the elder son's eye, the sharingan, or something. Notice with your example, whether you combine BC, you will always get some occular jutsu. A=sage=Rinnegan. And whether you have another combination of BC or CB, some form of occular jutsu is still there in either because B=elder son which still equals some form of occular jutsu.

Let me use my gene pool reference again. As I said before, a person of dark eyes can trace their roots and find out that their ancestors could've had blue eyes, but so many mixtures of other traits from other people (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) came into play that the original trait of blue eyes eventually thinned out the blood trait, and the new darker eyes trait took over. However the trait of having an eye color just doesn't simply go away. It may change colors, but it never loses it color. In some RARE cases, every now and then someone may be born with blindness or something that may result in an absense of color in the eye (or atleast close to it) but by in large you don't just lose the trait of having SOME kind of eye color.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Except the Senju are not superior in Sealing Jutsu. The Uzimaki were the best of ALL shinobi in the Shinobi world. This is why there clan was destroyed. The entire shinobi world feared there sealing Jutsu including Senju and Uchiha. The Senju bartered a partnership with the Uzimaki Clan, but the rest sought there destruction. So that part about Senju being Superior in Sealing jutsu is false.

I know i was the one trying to dispute that you replied to wrong person lol

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

1. Hiruzen dying an old man is irrelevant. And Hashirama's reign as Hokage didn't start until both he and Mito were full grown adults. They both also looked to be around the same age. And since Hashirama died shortly after his reign started, that means he died before he reached old age and can not be used validly to show Mito's great life span. The 2nd Hogake? Again, Tobirama took the throne as a full grown adult, and died shortly after, still as an adult who hadn't reached old age, so who's to say Mito would've outlasted their NATURAL life span. Tobirama died in battle, and Hashirama simply died young and below even the average life span. Mito died well before either reached old age, and she died while Hiruzen was very young. I am not saying that the Uzumaki do not have longevity, I'm saying your example is invalid. Unless you can tell me what age Mito was when she died, you can't use the Hokages as evidence because te 1st two didn't live to old age due to war and the she never saw the third come close to old age.

2. I am done with this. I can not prove this because as I said we've never seen an old Senju. But we've seen old people from many other clans (Granny Chio, 3rd Raikage, Hiruzen). I personally believe it's safe to say that Senju can atleast live to old age, and since we've never seen one live to their fullest potential due to war then I can't accurately show you the life span of their clan.

3. I figured we would

4. This is certainly where we disagree. I did not say that combining the original uchiha and senju blood would equal the diluted, or half-cut eye of the elder son. I was saying that if you combine the two sons, yes you would get the original sages powers, because the manga stated in plain language that the sage simply divided his powers between the two. He didn't divide them and then dilute them, he just spilt them up. So the elder son needs the younger son to reach the sage's original state again and vise versa. Yet once again, you ignore me when I point out that the Uzumaki DO NOT have an eye jutsu to call their own at all. We know that even the elder son's followers and mutations still resulted in them having an eye, just having a mutated eye. But regardless, they still kept an occular jutsu, it never just went away. Do you think that the Uzumaki bloodline thinned out so much that they just ended up losing their occular jutsu? I don't think so. Because the sage had an occular jutsu, and even though he split his powers in half which resulted in a different looking eye for the elder son, the elder son and his mutations that followed still retained SOME form of an occular dojutsu. So again my question is, why do the Uzumaki not have any occular jutsu what so ever? If the sage were an Uzumaki, then the Uzumaki would have SOME FORM of an occular jutsu, whether it be the Rinnegan, the elder son's eye, the sharingan, or something. Notice with your example, whether you combine BC, you will always get some occular jutsu. A=sage=Rinnegan. And whether you have another combination of BC or CB, some form of occular jutsu is still there in either because B=elder son which still equals some form of occular jutsu.

Let me use my gene pool reference again. As I said before, a person of dark eyes can trace their roots and find out that their ancestors could've had blue eyes, but so many mixtures of other traits from other people (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) came into play that the original trait of blue eyes eventually thinned out the blood trait, and the new darker eyes trait took over. However the trait of having an eye color just doesn't simply go away. It may change colors, but it never loses it color. In some RARE cases, every now and then someone may be born with blindness or something that may result in an absense of color in the eye (or atleast close to it) but by in large you don't just lose the trait of having SOME kind of eye color.

1.Hiruzen was relevant to show how old mito was at the start and how long she lived.She was an adult while hiruzen was still young and was still alive while hiruzen was old.

4.I already proved to you why it makes no sense for the uzumaki to not have the elder son eye as that would be a step backwards.And as for the sharingan i already told you the sage(uzumaki)had the rinnegan(progenitor gene)which cannot replicate only those who wield the exact blood or chakra can obtain it.When the two sons were born the dna was split forever losing the ability that specific gene.When the uchiha and senju combine they make the rinnegan.Madara was able to use nagato as a host because he retained the original chakra that broke off into the two sons.He is essentially the full package but many misunderstood me and assumed i was saying that the uzumaki retains all the powers of the two clans.He just holds the genetic make up that led to the uchiha and senju he does not have access to either clans unique powers like the uchiha sharigan >>> this applies the same way the elders son dojutu does if the elder sons eye would be only half the the dna why would an even furhter diluted eye be awankend this is taking even more steps back.The only eye they can obtain is the rinnegan.And once again not everyone who has the dna required for rinnegan will activate it so saying they they all must have it is a wrong way of thinking this was proved in the lastest chapter.They all have the potential but not everyone uzumaki will get it.you are right about them must having a dojustu i am just trying to point out it can only be the rinnegan and that not all uzumaki will have it.

 

[Troyg39]

1.Hiruzen was relevant to show how old mito was at the start and how long she lived.She was an adult while hiruzen was still young and was still alive while hiruzen was old.

4.I already proved to you why it makes no sense for the uzumaki to not have the elder son eye as that would be a step backwards.And as for the sharingan i already told you the sage(uzumaki)had the rinnegan(progenitor gene)which cannot replicate only those who wield the exact blood or chakra can obtain it.When the two sons were born the dna was split forever losing the ability that specific gene.When the uchiha and senju combine they make the rinnegan.Madara was able to use nagato as a host because he retained the original chakra that broke off into the two sons.He is essentially the full package but many misunderstood me and assumed i was saying that the uzumaki retains all the powers of the two clans.He just holds the genetic make up that led to the uchiha and senju he does not have access to either clans unique powers like the uchiha sharigan >>> this applies the same way the elders son dojutu does if the elder sons eye would be only half the the dna why would an even furhter diluted eye be awankend this is taking even more steps back.The only eye they can obtain is the rinnegan.And once again not everyone who has the dna required for rinnegan will activate it so saying they they all must have it is a wrong way of thinking this was proved in the lastest chapter.They all have the potential but not everyone uzumaki will get it.you are right about them must having a dojustu i am just trying to point out it can only be the rinnegan and that not all uzumaki will have it.

Finally we come to some common ground. So what you are saying is the eye dojutsu that the Uzumaki are supposed to carry is the Rinnegan. This does make sense with your theory since the sage had the Rinnegan. You are just saying that not every Uzumaki will get it, but every Uzumaki has the potential to get it. I guess that makes sense. After all, even the Uchiha aren't born with the Sharingan. They have to unlock it. So I guess one could conclude that not every Uchiha gets the sharingan. They are just all capable of getting it. So my only question now is why do you think it's so much harder for an Uzumaki to unlock the Rinnegan in comparison to the Uchiha? Maybe because the Rinnegan is a stronger doujutsu?

And Mito Uzumaki was not alive when Hiruzen was old. Mito was an old woman by the time Kushina was a child, but we know Hiruzen wasn't an old man when Kushina was young. By the time Kushina and Minato were about 30, Hiruzen was old then. Kushina was no more than 10 years old when Mito died giving her the nine tails. Meaning Mito died atleast 20 years or so before Kushina died. Hiruzen died at 69, about 12 years (naruto's age in part 1) years before Kushina died. Add that together, that's 32 years. Mito died 32 years before Hiruzen died, and since he died at age 69, that means he wasn't even 40 years old when Mito died. He wasn't an old man when Mito Uzumaki died. Yet she was clearly an old woman, even though she looked to be the same age as Tobirama and Hashirama, who died young. Are you following me? Mito's appearance doesn't match with the rest of those died around her. She shouldn't have been an old woman when she met Kushina since Kushina came around not too long after a young Tobirama died and a young Hiruzen was appointed Hokage. The reason I think this is is because of that jewel on her forehead. Just like Tsunade, Mito hid her true appearance and made herself look younger. In truth, she was probably wayyy older than Hashirama was, but that seal on her forehead kept her looking about the same age as her husband. I think I may make a thread on this

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Finally we come to some common ground. So what you are saying is the eye dojutsu that the Uzumaki are supposed to carry is the Rinnegan. This does make sense with your theory since the sage had the Rinnegan. You are just saying that not every Uzumaki will get it, but every Uzumaki has the potential to get it. I guess that makes sense. After all, even the Uchiha aren't born with the Sharingan. They have to unlock it. So I guess one could conclude that not every Uchiha gets the sharingan. They are just all capable of getting it. So my only question now is why do you think it's so much harder for an Uzumaki to unlock the Rinnegan in comparison to the Uchiha? Maybe because the Rinnegan is a stronger doujutsu?

And Mito Uzumaki was not alive when Hiruzen was old. Mito was an old woman by the time Kushina was a child, but we know Hiruzen wasn't an old man when Kushina was young. By the time Kushina and Minato were about 30, Hiruzen was old then. Kushina was no more than 10 years old when Mito died giving her the nine tails. Meaning Mito died atleast 20 years or so before Kushina died. Hiruzen died at 69, about 12 years (naruto's age in part 1) years before Kushina died. Add that together, that's 32 years. Mito died 32 years before Hiruzen died, and since he died at age 69, that means he wasn't even 40 years old when Mito died. He wasn't an old man when Mito Uzumaki died. Yet she was clearly an old woman, even though she looked to be the same age as Tobirama and Hashirama, who died young. Are you following me? Mito's appearance doesn't match with the rest of those died around her. She shouldn't have been an old woman when she met Kushina since Kushina came around not too long after a young Tobirama died and a young Hiruzen was appointed Hokage. The reason I think this is is because of that jewel on her forehead. Just like Tsunade, Mito hid her true appearance and made herself look younger. In truth, she was probably wayyy older than Hashirama was, but that seal on her forehead kept her looking about the same age as her husband. I think I may make a thread on this

Sorry i have completely forgotten about the jewel >>had could i be so blind /: the potential for a long life is still there though.
hopefully the oncoming chapters proves me right or wrong so we have a definite answer

 

[Meowazziel]

@ Deadmanwonderland and Troy39

You guys mention how Uzumaki can unlock Rinnegan.
Which chapter or info do you base this on?
If Uzumaki carry the potential to unlock Rinnegan, why is itthan, that the juubi is the one with the Rinnegan?

Here you can see how his empty shell gets sealed into the moon.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

It has the Rinnegan.

So the Sage probably obtained the dojutsu, when he became the Juubi his host and not before that.
When you look at Senju and Uchiha and their Origin in the sage, you have to look at the sage as an Uzumaki AND the Juubi's host and not just at the sage as an Uzumaki i think.

It makes lot of sense as well, because its said that the Juubi is a creator.
Kurama said that the 10tails is the progenitor of everything that exists in this world.
Having Rinnegan would be fitting.

Son Goku, the 4tails, recognized the binding on himself, as ''evil chains of the outer path Rinnegan''.
Basically he is aware of the dojutsu and classifies it as evil.
The bijou consider the Sage as a good person and the Juubi as evil.
This would enforce the Juubi having at least Rinnegan(and maybe more).

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

[/URL]

(i know I base some of this on anime footage, so i might be incorrect, but i want to share this anyway).

 

[Usanara Dattebayo]

@ Deadmanwonderland and Troy39

You guys mention how Uzumaki can unlock Rinnegan.
Which chapter or info do you base this on?
If Uzumaki carry the potential to unlock Rinnegan, why is itthan, that the juubi is the one with the Rinnegan?

Here you can see how his empty shell gets sealed into the moon.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

It has the Rinnegan.

So the Sage probably obtained the dojutsu, when he became the Juubi his host and not before that.
When you look at Senju and Uchiha and their Origin in the sage, you have to look at the sage as an Uzumaki AND the Juubi's host and not just at the sage as an Uzumaki i think.

It makes lot of sense as well, because its said that the Juubi is a creator.
Kurama said that the 10tails is the progenitor of everything that exists in this world.
Having Rinnegan would be fitting.

Son Goku, the 4tails, recognized the binding on himself, as ''evil chains of the outer path Rinnegan''.
Basically he is aware of the dojutsu and classifies it as evil.
The bijou consider the Sage as a good person and the Juubi as evil.
This would enforce the Juubi having at least Rinnegan(and maybe more).

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

[/URL]

(i know I base some of this on anime footage, so i might be incorrect, but i want to share this anyway).

I agree with you completely. I believe the Sage was an Uzimaki and didn't Obtain the Rinnigan until he became the Jubbi's host. However something to think about is the fact it shows the sage still with those eyes after he split the Jubbi's power and created the 9 bijuu. I'm hoping we will eventually get more info on the sage here soon in the Manga. I can see Madara explaining it while fighting both Bee and Naruto.

 

[Troyg39]

Sorry i have completely forgotten about the jewel >>had could i be so blind /: the potential for a long life is still there though.
hopefully the oncoming chapters proves me right or wrong so we have a definite answer

Yes if the jewel thing is correct then that would mean that Mito Uzumaki was probably a lot older than she looked and lived a very long time so you are right there also. And now that I finally understand your theory in full detail I believe eventually the manga will reveal you to be correct. Maybe not in the next chapter though. It will probably take a few chapters before this gets addressed directly

 

[Troyg39]

@ Deadmanwonderland and Troy39

You guys mention how Uzumaki can unlock Rinnegan.
Which chapter or info do you base this on?
If Uzumaki carry the potential to unlock Rinnegan, why is itthan, that the juubi is the one with the Rinnegan?

Here you can see how his empty shell gets sealed into the moon.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

It has the Rinnegan.

So the Sage probably obtained the dojutsu, when he became the Juubi his host and not before that.
When you look at Senju and Uchiha and their Origin in the sage, you have to look at the sage as an Uzumaki AND the Juubi's host and not just at the sage as an Uzumaki i think.

It makes lot of sense as well, because its said that the Juubi is a creator.
Kurama said that the 10tails is the progenitor of everything that exists in this world.
Having Rinnegan would be fitting.

Son Goku, the 4tails, recognized the binding on himself, as ''evil chains of the outer path Rinnegan''.
Basically he is aware of the dojutsu and classifies it as evil.
The bijou consider the Sage as a good person and the Juubi as evil.
This would enforce the Juubi having at least Rinnegan(and maybe more).

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

[/URL]

(i know I base some of this on anime footage, so i might be incorrect, but i want to share this anyway).

If what you are saying is correct, that would mean that the sage gave the Senju his powers, and he actually gave the Uchiha the powers of the jyubi. I guess that could make sense too. It would explain why the Uzumaki and Senju seem more related than the Uchiha. And the sage probably chose the younger son over the elder because the younger son got the sages power. Plus the Uchiha are filled with evil and hatred which has jyubi written all over it.

Still, it's kind of tough to think that the sage would do such a thing to his child.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

@ Deadmanwonderland and Troy39

You guys mention how Uzumaki can unlock Rinnegan.
Which chapter or info do you base this on?
If Uzumaki carry the potential to unlock Rinnegan, why is itthan, that the juubi is the one with the Rinnegan?

Here you can see how his empty shell gets sealed into the moon.

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It has the Rinnegan.

So the Sage probably obtained the dojutsu, when he became the Juubi his host and not before that.
When you look at Senju and Uchiha and their Origin in the sage, you have to look at the sage as an Uzumaki AND the Juubi's host and not just at the sage as an Uzumaki i think.

It makes lot of sense as well, because its said that the Juubi is a creator.
Kurama said that the 10tails is the progenitor of everything that exists in this world.
Having Rinnegan would be fitting.

Son Goku, the 4tails, recognized the binding on himself, as ''evil chains of the outer path Rinnegan''.
Basically he is aware of the dojutsu and classifies it as evil.
The bijou consider the Sage as a good person and the Juubi as evil.
This would enforce the Juubi having at least Rinnegan(and maybe more).

Spoiler

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[/URL]

(i know I base some of this on anime footage, so i might be incorrect, but i want to share this anyway).

The rendition of the anime is filled with inaccuracies and inconsistencies not to mention the anime is not canon and mainly irrelevant.
People have criticized the thread mainly on the premise that the uchiha share nothing in common with uzumaki and therefore cannot be related to them.I touched on the nature of the uzumaki chakra and its relation to the uchiha (which is spread about in post ranging from page 9 through 12)I never implied every individual uzumaki nor all of them would 'unlock' it i said they have the potential to wield it.And i also talked about the relations between the uchiha and the juubi not all once but in sections separated throughout many post mainly starting on page 10 through 11 but to sum it all up the sage gave birth to two sons one manifested the spiritual energy of the uzumaki the yin nature of their chakra with their primary characteristics stemming from the juubi and the other son was gifted the life force and physical energy the yang nature.Once the sage became the first jinchuuriki you must consider them one being and when he gave birth to his sons each gained aspects of the sage but then derived their main characteristic from each respectively as i have previously stated with one leaning towards to juubi while the other leaned more towards the uzumaki itself.If you want details begin reading the specified pages i pointed out for the discussion i summed up here.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

If what you are saying is correct, that would mean that the sage gave the Senju his powers, and he actually gave the Uchiha the powers of the jyubi. I guess that could make sense too. It would explain why the Uzumaki and Senju seem more related than the Uchiha. And the sage probably chose the younger son over the elder because the younger son got the sages power. Plus the Uchiha are filled with evil and hatred which has jyubi written all over it.

Still, it's kind of tough to think that the sage would do such a thing to his child.

I already pointed this out by bringing to light all the sharingan justu that derive from the cretion of all things and the aspects of suusano to the perfect suusano and cited how the uchihas ability to suppress implicates a connection to tailed beast

 

[Kronnic]

It was logical that Uzumaki's the Bloodline of the Sage ever since Naruto closed Kurama with the 6 Paths and Kurama said about the Sage.
And when he did that, he did it rotating that Uzumaki sign on his stomach.

True Dat!!

 

[Meowazziel]

If what you are saying is correct, that would mean that the sage gave the Senju his powers, and he actually gave the Uchiha the powers of the jyubi. I guess that could make sense too. It would explain why the Uzumaki and Senju seem more related than the Uchiha. And the sage probably chose the younger son over the elder because the younger son got the sages power. Plus the Uchiha are filled with evil and hatred which has jyubi written all over it.

Still, it's kind of tough to think that the sage would do such a thing to his child.

Maybe he didnt give the elder son hatred.
You can experience hatred, without having anything from the powers of juubi.

I believe mokuton for example, is the juubi his power as well, so he didnt give only juubi's power to one son and his own power to the other. He gave both sons, power of himself and of the juubi. That is what i believe.

The rendition of the anime is filled with inaccuracies and inconsistencies not to mention the anime is not canon and mainly irrelevant.
People have criticized the thread mainly on the premise that the uchiha share nothing in common with uzumaki and therefore cannot be related to them.I touched on the nature of the uzumaki chakra and its relation to the uchiha (which is spread about in post ranging from page 9 through 12)I never implied every individual uzumaki nor all of them would 'unlock' it i said they have the potential to wield it.And i also talked about the relations between the uchiha and the juubi not all once but in sections separated throughout many post mainly starting on page 10 through 11 but to sum it all up the sage gave birth to two sons one manifested the spiritual energy of the uzumaki the yin nature of their chakra with their primary characteristics stemming from the juubi and the other son was gifted the life force and physical energy the yang nature.Once the sage became the first jinchuuriki you must consider them one being and when he gave birth to his sons each gained aspects of the sage but then derived their main characteristic from each respectively as i have previously stated with one leaning towards to juubi while the other leaned more towards the uzumaki itself.If you want details begin reading the specified pages i pointed out for the discussion i summed up here.

I dont believe that uzumaki have the power to unlock rinnegan. None have that potential imo.
They can wield the implant, their bodies can withstand it, but i dont think they can unlock it themselfs.
Its true that anime is not cannon, that is why i mentioned it myself as well, however i provided some manga material as well.

 

[Kronnic]

I due time we will find out more about that and I do agree with you that Uzamaki is closer to the SO6P than we think. I also know that sometimes genes can skip generations and maybe some how Uzamaki got some genes that not found in neither the Uchiha or Senju....



Because a person's DNA contains information that has been passed down relatively unchanged from early ancestors, Three DNA types are of particular interest: mitochondrial DNA that we all possess and that is passed down with only minor mutations through the matrilineal (direct female) line; the Y-chromosome, present only in males, which is passed down with only minor mutations through the patrilineal (direct male) line; and the Autosomal DNA, which is found in the 22 non-gender specific chromosomes (autosomes) inherited from both parents, which can uncover relatives from any branch of the family.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Maybe he didnt give the elder son hatred.
You can experience hatred, without having anything from the powers of juubi.

I believe mokuton for example, is the juubi his power as well, so he didnt give only juubi's power to one son and his own power to the other. He gave both sons, power of himself and of the juubi. That is what i believe.



I dont believe that uzumaki have the power to unlock rinnegan. None have that potential imo.
They can wield the implant, their bodies can withstand it, but i dont think they can unlock it themselfs.
Its true that anime is not cannon, that is why i mentioned it myself as well, however i provided some manga material as well.

I agree that is why i said wield and not unlock but thanks for posting what you entailed as it seemed help others understand where i was was coming from.i admit my thread could of been more organized

 

[midobeast123]

i guess

 

[pablojr]

very irrelevant and maybe childish (depending on how you take it) but nice orichimaru pic